TURN 1 - Player Count
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[Music]
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welcome to whose turn is it Anyway your ball gaming podcast where we talk about games games games but also we also get
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some really interesting guests on the show and this is an expansion pack episode we have none other than Mark
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dainty from notb gaming joining myself for a chat we're going to talk about all things not ball gaming his channel and
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also no doubt solo play and let's just jump over there and so you can meet Mark and let's get into
TURN 2 - Welcoming Mark Dainty to the show
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[Music]
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it so as I've just mentioned I'm joined today with Mark dainty from notb gaming
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welcome to the show Mark I JP and thank you very much for having me on as a guest on your wonderful wonderful
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podcast yeah thanks mate thanks mate I've been uh yeah it's been been a while since we got you we got you here didn't
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we you have I know and that's all down to me you asked me maybe about 18 months if not two years at the first gridon
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that I went to and uh and yeah for whatever reason and Etc just haven't aligned life mate it's all good life
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exactly right yeah yeah we we but we've carved out an evening uh it's a Monday for us so you know we just probably
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started work work and we managed to sneak in a little evening and we're going to chat about all things games
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that's what this is that's why you're here right as listeners that's why you want to listen to us I thought we were going to talk about the presidential
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election oh probably best not right maybe we'll leave
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that to another time but but I mean for for those that kind of um you know don't
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know who you are which I doubt cuz you know your Channel's pretty cool and your Channel's out there but for those that
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don't know self and not Bard gaming just a very very very quick yeah what is it
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all about that's what I often ask myself tell making videos um but no so not B
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gaming is channel I said up I want to say around about five years ago now four or five years ago as a solo gamer and
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it's to cover games from a solo perspective and that's literally all the channel does is anything solo uh sorry
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any games that are soloable that I get to play and then carve the time out to actually make a video on I will put them
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on the channel so it's purely solo based stuff that I put not board gaming yeah yeah awesome awesome and what we like to
How did you get into the hobby?
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do with our guest Mark just so people kind of get to know them a little bit better is I always like to ask these
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same free questions okay so my first question which is always how did you get in the hobby like where did you
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[Laughter] start yeah so about F so if the Channel's been going oh God when did it
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start uh the channel must have started august 19 so I started board gaming
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modern board gaming um it would be around
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about January 2019 so still fairly new into it fairly
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new into it so you know I'm of a certain age now I'm mid-50s now so kind of five years ago I was in in my late 40s and uh
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I was working a really stressful job at the time I was I was kind of working away in London four nights a week in
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London I live in Sheffield so you know I was staying away from home all the time um and round that time I got diagnosed
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with a tumor in my pered gland now if you ever want to yeah if you ever want to see a frightening picture then go and
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check out what a pered e toy is basically and that's literally what I had the tumor was benign but at the time
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obviously we didn't know um when I went to go and um go all the kind of
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pre-operation stuff that they do the I was sat in the hospital and uh took my took my blood pressure and then she went
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oh that's strange the nurse she said oh that's strange so then she took it again she went oh have you had coffeee this
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morning no have have you been exercising this morning I said no I'll just check it again so she checked it a third time
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she went I'm just going to go and speak to the doctor and at that point this is this doesn't sound good
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doesn't it you know it's not good yeah so they came back with a doctor and
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they took my blood pressure a fourth time uh and you know standard blood pressure should be around about 120 over
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80 yeah something like that I was 215 over 120 bloody ell knew nothing about
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it obviously I was stressed because i' got this tumor which you know we thought was benign but we didn't know anything about at the time but I hadn't realized
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just how much life was literally getting in my way I was working stupid long hours uh staying away from home all the
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time I was literally coming home on a Thursday or a Friday and heading back down to London on a either a Sunday
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night or a Monday yeah uh and then because of the industry I work in um I deal a lot with developers and the
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property developers uh I I sell really really really large energy infrastructure um and these guys are on
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site all day so you i' be working all day and then working you know most of the night as well so I was doing like 12
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hour 12 hour days constantly um and I hadn't realized that my blood pressure had got so high um so
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of course it kind of put the Kush on having the operation for a while I had to get my blood pressure under control
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and I went to see my doctor as you would do because you know the same actually you know if you don't do something about it you're going to at any point uh and
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my doctor said right okay obviously you need to make some Life Changes um and mostly what you need to do is you need
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to find a way to carve time out for yourself like really just carve some time out for yourself get away from
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anything electronic just just get something you know a hobby whatever you can do yes do loads of exercise and what
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have you uh but get a hobby that allows you to carve time away from yourself now I'd read maybe only a couple of days
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before an article on solo board gaming and I'd seen this game called Mage
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Knight oh yeah and just prior to this I'd ordered Mage Knight yeah so as I'm
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having this conversation with the doctor mjor Knight's getting delivered to my house at this time yeah so I thought
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right okay I'm going to try this solo board gameing my you know my kids are they are they're 20 and 18 now so they
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would have been you know four or five years younger than that now but still you know two girls and they W never
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really been interested in board gaming yeah less interested wife wasn't so interested and of course my friends
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never really been into it and this was time for me um so I spent about four days learning Mage night like four days
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and I I played it and probably played it 50% wrong and I didn't care I was lost
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myself in in a board game for kind of you know kind of four hours or something like three or four hours whatever it was
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and from that moment I was I was hooked and this became my de my default way of
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actually carving time out taking time away from work taking time away from all dist stress putting my phone away
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putting laptop away all that kind of stuff securing myself in my man cave and just having some time for me and that
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was my journey into solo board gaming and uh yeah uh you know just going I say
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the tumor eventually had the operation had the tumor cut out it was benign but that tumor actually saved my life
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because had I not had the tumor I would not have had my blood pressure taken I would not known I was close to popping
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and I would probably not be doing what I'm doing right now in terms of uh what I do in the board game space so yeah
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that's kind of how I got into board gaming and then as you can tell from what I'm saying right now and the fact I work in sales I like to
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talk you did tell me this did say I did yeah I like to talk so therefore I
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thought you I like the sound of my own voice maybe other people might like the sound of my own voice and that's kind of how the channel started there is just a
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way of kind of um a bit of a creative outlet for me if you like just something a little bit different that allowed me
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to uh explore board gaming in a slightly different way and it has opened up an
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entire friendships around the world we've been in we had people to stay with us from America we've been around visited people around the world that's
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me and my wife as well and that's all come from this wonderful hobby of board gaming that I probably would have not
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gotten to any kind of the depth that I've got had I not had that kind of life-changing experience with my health
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wow I mean that that what a story right so that what that that whole trigger and
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that decision of going have all the things that you could have chosen to do right you could have been woodworking it
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could have been gardening it could have like anything but you chose board gaming and the fact you already had Mage night
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on Route which is on rout yeah yeah I mean it's a game to get lost in right I mean abs and that's it I thought I'll
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give it a go and I'll try this it was in the article I'll give it a go man little did I know first of all just you know
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what the depths of the game were but second would lead to at the same time yeah amazing what a great story that's
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that's awesome if there's any reason to to game guys mark save your life it could save your life so you should
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absolutely do it nice um so I already know the answer to this question I think
What is your favourite game of all time?
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but I'm G to ask it for the for the purposes of the listeners but your favorite game ever and the reason why I
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know it is because I think you recently announced it I did I I sent the video out and it's kind of unfair because it's
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a game that people don't I know you played it but it's a game that people don't have yet that people really eagerly waiting for and up until this
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year it wasn't my favorite game ever um that would have been probably Kingdom
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and Death monster um which I absolutely adore but it's almost a hobbit in and of
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itself Kingdom Death monster um and then early this year uh you know I I I chip
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Theory tend to send me most of their most of their stuff before it comes out so I can cover it on the channel got a good working relationship with chip
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Theory they sent me an early production copy of the Elder Scrolls now I played this I must have sunk now well over 60
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to 70 hours into into the Elder Scrolls that's solo that's two player that's
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three player not played four player yet uh and the Elder Scrolls betray of the second era era has leap frogged all of
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the other games including too many bones which is probably my second favorite game of all time after Kingdom Death monster uh it's leap robbed all of the
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games as the game that I would play I get the most enjoyment out of playing I think that's that's the difference
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between kind of what you class as your favorite game what is potentially the
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best designed game now don't get me wrong Elder Scrolls is a wonderfully wonderfully designed game it's very very
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well designed but I have the most fun out of any other game out of all my games that I play playing the Elder
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Scrolls and therefore that's what makes it the best game for me yeah I can I can relate I mean like too many bones as mine and it's the same thing and people
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go JP you love Euro games you love deterministic Euro games and your favorite game of all time is basically
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chucking a load of Cubes around and smashing things to death like yeah
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and I can't tell you why but it's just something invokes the feeling that invokes is just like this is just such a
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good time absolutely and that's a game I've played uh 85 times right right okay
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yeah right 85 plays of too many bones which is not bygo because it's not a long it's not a short game it's not a
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short game at all no no even if you choose a a short Tyrant yeah one of the short tyrants it's still a long game
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still it's still a lot of hours poured in and yeah and I I've only played Elder Scrolls
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I played a few training games yeah and then we did a full session once I've still not had a full three game Arc
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session on it so it's really hard for me to to kind of give an opinion on it because it's like scratch the surface
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mate and uh I need I need to play more but you know we've got a a copy coming into a group one of our um uh podcast
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group Rob he's he's backed it and he saved me he Sav me the money this time I own all the chip Theory games I'm like
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I'm going to back down from this one cuz I'm uh I'm skin and uh yeah so he's he's got it coming and we'll probably no
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doubt get into it more next year but I'm looking forward to it I'm looking forward to getting some time of work where I can spend some more time uh in
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it as well um there just something about the entire thing and I say there are probably better design games out there
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with more intricate mechanisms Etc but for the sheer amount of fun per dice joke or card flip then it's got to be
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Elder Scroll for me y yeah I mean to be fair like you you with your relationship with chip theory was that something
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but how did that come about because that's the reason I think why I came to your channel originally is because of
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your chip Theory game coverage okay yeah get that I think what I found because I
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say by Nature by Nature I didn't at school I didn't do particularly well I didn't go to
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university I left school at 16 with three o levels way before your time o levels right JP but they they they
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preceded gcses right okay uh with very little kind of formal trading but an ability to talk and and kind of and kind
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of interact with people and and build relationships so I naturally moved into sales uh and that's what I've done my
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entire life is is uh a form of sales or another uh and then when I started making content you start making these
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speaking to people making relations and that's literally what it came from I think you know I'd covered um oh which
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game was it I covered first wasn't too many bones it might have been CL Cloud
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Spire it was cloudspire I think I covered yeah I still haven't done a video on too many bones and that kind of
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ir me a little bit it was your Cloud Spire video that's exactly what it was yeah and from them I think I met them
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then at Essen and had a chat with them and then they said they would send me
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something along and I can't remember what it was it might have been whatever burn cycle or something like that um and
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then they asked me to do some videos for when everybody was down in Co and there no conventions they did a virtual
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convention so I did a series of like five videos for their game that they play these kind of three minute videos
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they play through this virtual convention and that's kind of where the relationship kind of started there now you know I say most cases they send me
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most things not everything because they sometimes don't have it now but they'll send me most things um and you know
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generally I like all their games um I think there are some games that I prefer
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more than others and I understand why some people might not like say burn cycle or might think cloudy is too
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complex but generally they make the kinds of games that I like so it's just developed over time and it's not just with chip Theory there's
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lot of relationships that you have out there yeah yeah and that just comes from yeah having making the time to create
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the relationships and I think that's a key thing when you got a channel you know when you got any form of Outlet whether it's a video channel whether
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it's a Blog whether it's a podcast like yourself um you get more value from the relationships you make and that is a key
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thing is just just understanding how how Publishers work I have good relationship with some Publishers I've had
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relationship with Publishers who won't speak to me again because I've getting Games bad reviews and that's okay as
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well I'm obviously not their target audience the thing is not to take it too personally yeah and that's just how these relationships grow yeah yeah no
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nice nice I thought I thought I'm GNA ask him because like you know chip theory is one of my favorite uh Publishers ever and I was like yeah and
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I just remember when we were talking I was like yeah that's that's that was the video your Cloud Spire video was the one that got me into your channel so there
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you go there you go good stuff okay what games then other than your face game but
What games have you been enjoying right now?
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what games are you generally enjoying right now I'm just come off the back of my second game in my in a current
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campaign of creel Mana from Tristan yeah have you so I'm I play Glo Gloom a kill
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for not not cre Mana right okay I've not played any of the Gloom games I've played Veil Wraith in the past but
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generally games that have cards as an overriding mechanism so you're kind of
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um Arkham hor lcg Marvel Champions Etc uh any form of building deck
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construction it's not my bag I don't generally enjoy them uh but Tristan sent
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me a copy of cre Manner and I don't if know much about it it is a card-based game so you know it's got that not going
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for me but it's a kind of progressive I want to say dungeon crawly type game it's not true Dungeon Crawl you're
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exploring locations you have certain foes coming out you're upgrading your character as this kind of five five uh
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scenario campaign plays out in front of you and a number of different different characters you can take in a number of different paths you can take in the
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story it plays so smooth and so quick that I'm really really enjoying it nice
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don't mind the shuffling so much and that's one of the thing I'm a terrible card shuffler every time I shuffle cards I
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think I should watch videos on how to shuffle cards because if you can imagine the most I don't know inept card
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shuffler in the world that is me um so yeah cre Mana uh enjoyed that um recent
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played what solo but I played uh kelp two-player I did not
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enjoy that um I played Iron Forest two player as well but you don't that the
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flicky is that the flicky schol yeah High schol yeah so they did the Penguin game didn't they
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exactly right yeah yeah uh this is their next one which is like on two levels and you got them up yeah you know what it's
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not the deepest game in the world but uh we had a lot of fun playing that um um
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and setti I've come off of recently um my review is gonna come out shortly on that it's not for me enough not for me
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no not for me um and I'm still trying to get through the backlog of games that I
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brought back from Essen so I bought quite a few games at Essen um uh which I'm still trying to get through it's
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just trying to find time so what I'm trying to do is now not take any review copies from anybody or do any kind of
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Kickstarter promos for anybody just so I can actually get through games for fun
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as well at the same time yeah nice yeah so no cre Mana I've been
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Pleasant really pleasantly uh enjoying cre Mana oh I'll tell you what else as well dungeons of Doria have you heard of
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this no not heard of this one right so this is potentially as close to a DND d game as you can get so D and D again
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fairly late life um Discovery for me I've been playing D and D about 18 months two years now every Tuesday night
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go and you know pretend to be whatever character Etc uh don't adoria I think it's coming back out on Kickstarter
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later this month it's kind of this um procedural Dungeon Crawler but it's more
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of a loot crawler it's all about getting the loot and having a look what that loot can do for you uh you've got stat
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sheets that kind of dictate what happens on your rolls it's you know it's as swingy as all hell because you're losing losing loads of dice in it and I love it
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I think it's absolutely fantastic really hit the nail on the head for me that yeah yeah oh no again I mentioned Rob
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earlier he he he loves all of that stuff right he's into his DND D and he's uh
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yeah loves his dungeon caller game so you'll be listening to this going rubbing his little hands together heard
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that dungeons of Dory so yeah check out Rob definitely
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nice okay um okay well let's get into a bit more about your channel and solo
TURN 3 - The importance of solo gaming with Mark Dainty
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gaming because I know that's where your your kind of uh heart and motivations are so we've got you intro into your
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channel we got your motivations on and kind of why you started it which is probably the best motivations for
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starting any kind of Channel ever I don't think anyone going to top that Mark um but you you're obviously a big
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supporter of like solo gamer in general and the hobby of solo gaming yeah and one of my um I don't say favorite videos
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but one of my most memorable videos that you've done and this a few years ago now is where you were not trying to remember
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it but you were kind of um picking apart some of the trolls of of solo gaming and
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kind of just going like what's this gatekeeper and attitude of solo gaming and and the fact that some people think
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it's not it's not really the hobby though is it and and to tell you what it pisses me off as well when people do it so yeah like what what what is it about
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solo gaming that other than for you carving time out and being your kind of
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uh you know personal yeah why is it so important so I think you know wind back a little bit if you think about kind of
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you know why people are having a front against solo gaming and and think that it's not a pure as pure as other board
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game parts of the board gaming hobby you have to look at why the different motivators why people do board gaming for some it's a purely social thing they
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just want to get a group of friends together and you know and and play a board game it's a way for them to interact with other people that's not
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the same for everybody you know some people maybe don't have a massive group of friends some people may have a massive group of friends but they don't
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have friends that play board games I me some people may have um uh you know uh
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less of an easy time kind of interacting with others how you know in terms of social environment shyness or or
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whatever so I think what solo board gaming does is it provides an outlet for lots of people to experience the joy
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board games where other options aren't available to them and it doesn't mean
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that solo Gamers don't have friends you know the solo Community is absolutely huge cly on any other forums it is
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absolutely huge and we've seen this turn and it's you know it's happening obviously well before covid but
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certainly during covid there's a real drive for gain
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for the right games to have a solo mode in them and I say that because I'm a huge believer that not every game needs
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a solo mode as well as much as I would love to play Twilight Imperium um I
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don't think I would like to play it solo and for hours yeah so you know I think
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there's h a bit more work in the industry to be done about kind of clarifying exactly when you should
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advertise a game as kind of one to four players Etc Maybe it can be played solo but you're not going to get the full
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experience from it anyway that's a that's completely different discussion there um so I think solo gaming just
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allows people as say to kind of experience board gaming for many different reasons be that mental be that
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physical be that just because they got time in their day you know maybe you
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know they like Puzzles and sodoku and crosswords and you know a board game solo board game becomes a kind of puzzle
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more than anything if you like you it's a dynamic puzzle I suppose like old board games are you know solo potentially has potentially has less
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interaction than than other things so it becomes a dynamic puzzle so there's many different reasons for it and I think the
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the growth of solo gaming is something to be applauded the growth of the solo Gaming Community is something to be
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applauded and I do still get gatekeeping comments you know I'd rather play a
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video game I've been playing video games since the early 80s right so I'm mid 80s I had a
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zx81 me too yeah me too was it a 48k was it 128k oh the the Spectrum was a well
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it was 48 and then I might to get the upgrade bit 128 yes yeah you I had the Commodore 64 I've I've gone through all
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of the consoles you know gaming has been kind of video gaming and computer gaming has been a large part of my life yeah
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mine but since I moved into board gaming I spend less time on a lot less time on that now um and yeah I get it some
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people say I'd just rather play a video game that's fine go and do that doesn't mean what I'm doing and other people are
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doing is wrong I enjoy experience of setting up a board game I enjoy the ritual I don't so much enjoy taking it
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down but I enjoy the ritual of setting up a board game yeah nothing I like better than everybody's gone to bed at
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night I've got a brand new rule book in front of me and I've got a glass of whiskey a nice single malt and you know
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and it's just me and a rule book and I'll read that until half one 2 o'clock in the morning and be as happy as a
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happy as whatever a piging whatever there basically so there's lots of different and looking forward to getting
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some time where there's nobody else in the room and I can just spend an hour if I want to setting up a board game
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understanding where the pieces and components go referring it back to the rule book so you know the whole solo
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thing is a huge release for me in terms of putting everything else to one side
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it's a huge release for some people in the having the ability to experience time away from their own for
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walls if they not interacting with people uh or if they don't have groups of friends that actually play board
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games so I I believe it has massive benefits for people doing it yes it become like all of us it can become
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obsessive at some points but it has massive benefits for the people that want a Solo solo board game so therefore
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when we see people like you know David tury David diby um attached to games you
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know that you know they're working their hardest to create a a really good solo mode for that and that gives me more
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kind of confidence that Publishers are taking it more uh more seriously these days and we will start to see some of
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these solo interactions get even better as time goes on yeah it's it's for me
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you hit the nail on the head for me the ritual and yeah yeah I I play predominantly multiplayer and I do and
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but there are times I probably would say 33 40% maybe of my my gaming is solo y
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um which is still quite a high high proportion in in in general terms but
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just some there was some evenings where I'm just like I just I don't want to have that so
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social I don't want to call it a drain cuz that sounds really negative but you know to entertain and have people come
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around your house yeah it it is like it's fun but it also is you know can
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drain your your your energy levels and ab and sometimes you know when you've just had a full-on day of work and
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you're like I can't think of anything worse right now than having you know four people come around I'm just not
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mentally prepared for for just hosting you know and and then you just think but
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but I but I I want a game and actually I want that escapism because I've been hard at work for 8 n 10 hours talking
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meetings back to back Etc so now I can just carve out some I say silence because you're probably like me when you
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solo game it's rarely silent because you're talking to yourself talking to herself all the time absolutely yeah
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just like monologuing about what you should do and should I go there should I collect that resource should I not and
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oh no it didn't work and I probably swear more when I'm when I'm solo gaming than I do at any other point in my life
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basically so yeah but it's brilliant because it's that escapism isn't it of you just get
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lost with with yourself yeah and um and it is more interactive than a film and
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and even video games I'm not under any pressure as well I can you know I can play half an hour and go away and do
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something else come back and continue the game or I can leave it out for a night or two nights if I want and you know certainly my man cave I've had
26:51
games out there for over a week where I haven't completed them because you know I've gone off and done other things uh
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my wife then gets annoyed because while I still got a game upstairs in my man cave I'll sometimes take over the dining room at the same time as well so I have
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two games on the go in the house but but yeah there's that whole thing
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there's no pressure uh the AP is is all mine you know the analysis paralysis is all mine um if I get a rule wrong it's
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fine I can either wind it back or progress the game without it yeah it's also very good way of you know for
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people who are who's predominant gaming through gaming groups if there a solo mode it's a good way to learn some of
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the key mechanisms in a game as well uh and I get again some people will Absolut absolutely do that um they will you know
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solo it first before they take it to gamees club or games night or or whatever's going to happen and then they'll know how to play the game a
27:41
little bit better from doing that so many different reasons for many different factors any of the gatekeeping
27:47
needs to stop yeah I don't care who you are what kind of game you like as long
27:52
as you're having fun playing that g if you all you want to do is play two-handed solo Monopoly for the rest of
27:59
your life then go out there and bl do it and enjoy it yeah exactly right don't let anybody tell you any different if it
28:05
makes you happy yeah is like you're not hurting anyone are you I mean no at all do what you want no and you're not
28:11
you're not diluting the hobby at the same time no no not in any way shape or form so exactly exactly no and it's yeah
28:19
it's something I feel very strongly about which is why your video resonated yeah and yeah and it's like I can't I
28:25
just can't believe people still have that kind of attitude but you know in most of these Hobbies it
28:32
is there and lots of people you know it's not just you know uh for gaming I'm sure it's in in many others as well any
28:39
other hobby I've ever had and probably ever will have there will always be a faction of that hobby that says you're
28:44
not doing it the same as me so you're wrong so you're wrong yeah and you're like piss off yeah yeah
28:51
exactly oh you know as I'm nearly 54 I've gone Way Beyond considering wonder
28:56
and kind of worrying about what people think about what I do right now so yeah so oh yeah I'm I'm I'm getting as I get
29:02
older I'm I'm you know getting to mid-40s now Mark so my my tolerance level starts to reduce I used to be a
29:09
people pleaser no I don't care just going to be a crank old man exactly I've
29:14
become the very thing that my dad was basically so there we go love it love it um so go going into
What are some of Mark's favourite implementations of solo games
29:22
your solo games then if you got kind of some good examples of of where the the solo is done really well like what are
29:29
some of your favorite implementations of solo games so I think you know one of the key one of the best ones or recent
29:36
ones and I know you probably uh you probably agree with this is is void fall yeah right so void fall Works absolutely
29:44
fantastic as a solo experience um uh it just you don't feel like you're losing
29:51
anything from playing void fall solo you know when you first get it you look at all the scenarios and you think oh there's a lot less solo scenarios than
29:57
there are multiplayer but man yeah because of how that game works and you how how you know David and
30:07
I can't remember El worked on the solo with him it might have been like John Albertson and Nick um yeah um uh what's
30:13
Nick's second name I forgot Nick's name now it'll come to me uh but John Albertson and Nick Etc work with him on
30:19
that and it just becomes an absolutely essential game yeah it almost feels like
30:24
you're not playing in Ai and in reality you're not because you got this constant coming for you the void board I want to
30:30
say coming at you basically yeah yeah um and you know I have I played it with
30:36
anybody else yet void fall no I don't think I have I think I've only ever played void fall solo and I would play
30:41
that solo at the drop of a hat basically um so I think when you look at a good
30:47
implementation of a solo mode into a solo games there's kind of a couple of ways to do it first of all there's no
30:53
kind of um AI if you like so like void fall there is an AI in the voidborn but
30:59
they're not really you're not drawing cards or looking decision trees Etc they they're just coming out and you're combating against them then you have
31:07
kind of a simple deck of cards if you like you're flipping over it makes decisions for you and you do x y and Zed
31:12
on the back of that and then you have the more complex ones where there's lots of decision trees yeah flowcharts and
31:18
flowcharts Etc I have no problem with any of those
31:23
whatsoever uh I'm again a huge believer that a game should have the solo mode it
31:30
deserves if a game can operate on a simple solo and provide you with that excellent experience then it can be a
31:36
simple solo some games so you think of something like um I don't know say
31:41
nucleum probably not the best example has got a more complex solo going going on in there and I think when people
31:48
first go to some of the more complex games and maybe it's their first or one of their early attempts at solo mode and
31:54
they see one of these complex um AI it can be very overwhelming now you and I
32:01
and certainly me I've played hundreds of these things and therefore there's a rhythm that you get with them um but I
32:07
totally understand why they can be offputting for for people so kind of understanding what a great solo mode is
32:14
it's all dependent on the game itself there are some great games that have had not great solo modes and there have been
32:21
some great solo modes developed for games which aren't that good as or to me aren't that good as well yeah
32:28
yeah so so yeah I think um I say huge believer in in in in a game having the solo mode it deserves to provide you
32:35
with that experience um and there are a number of different styles of solo modes whether it is an AI whether it's an app
32:42
I don't mind app games I know again there's a bit gatekeeping goes on about apps whether it's an app whether it's an AI or whether you're just playing
32:48
against the game itself beat your own score as long as you're getting the good experience from it then that's great but
32:55
people need to understand if they're going into a game purely for solo they need to understand about and that's
33:00
where kind of previews and reviews come in handy is just understanding how that solo mode works and is it the right kind
33:06
of solo mode for yeah do I want that upkeep am I happy with that upkeep you know and I remember my uh one of my
33:13
first solo experiences which was the krosa bot in an acony and and at the
33:21
times it's it's quite heavy but when I got it like when it when it click Dam so
33:27
clever how the hell does this work and it does and it just works and because that was an evolution of the
33:34
original actually you could then play with all the the expansions expansions exactly great that's krosus 2.0 that is
33:42
yeah yeah and when I play anony and you know and generally David's turx is
33:47
involved in the M Clash Solo solo B so again there's a certain Rhythm that happens with them so you can get to pass
33:53
them fairly quickly but when I play anr now and I again I think anine is fantastic um then as on most mineclash games one
34:02
major Miss for me which was sept which I really didn't enjoy most mineclash games are um when you play an acar that as you
34:10
say that's solo but it just starts singing it really feels like you're getting the full experience of this
34:16
seemingly complex game by playing solo against the against the konob or krosus
34:22
yeah yeah but it's interesting you mentioned vo4 because that what they haven't done is TR to try to replicate the multiplayer exper experience no as a
34:28
solar B and they've gone you know what we're going to do something a bit different and whilst it kind of is sort
34:35
of a beat your own score it isn't in the way that you know the the game is throwing knives at you constantly and
34:42
and you're trying to dodge those knives and react to all of the obstacles that are get in your way and just the way it
34:47
works it's just awesome and even cooperatively right I've had people who have played the co-op going actually I
34:54
think I prefer it yeah like just because it's the same system it's just a set of car Focus cards but it's it's so clever
35:01
and yeah you're right you don't need millions of scenarios because the variability is in just every time it's
35:08
going to be so different anyway but if you want possibly the most complex solo
35:14
that you can get it's a m Clash game and it's treron with all of the relevant
35:19
expansions thrown in Academy yeah yeah I think you've got to read through about five rule books to get the solo down on
35:26
that and I did I didn't play it two-handed I jump straight into solo on triron I again just an absolutely
35:33
amazing game triron but the solo is work but the payoff is so good at the back
35:39
end of it it really is but boy do you have to put the work in on there more work than you have to put into vo fall
35:44
in terms of learning the solo yeah yeah fair enough fair enough do you use like uh like solo bots in any multiplayer
Do you use solo bots in your multiplayer games?
35:52
games that you either play with your group because I know you you you play games with uh Mike right Mike Dennis
35:58
Mike Dennis from Red City play he's just uh prob just less you know earlier this year moved from London to Sheffield so
36:06
there go about 15 minutes away from me now basically so you know I generally go around there maybe once or twice a week
36:11
we you know we either play a new game an upcoming game or or an old game um have
36:17
we used solo Bots I think the only time we threw one in is when I had an early copy of andromeda's edge uh kind of
36:24
after UK games Expo so uh I know Peter from cab Al publisher he did
36:30
ukge after UK games Expo I'd got will Brown um from Hungary gamer and him and
36:36
his wife came to stay with us for a week nice uh and Peter was spending some time
36:41
in England so he came over as well H and he brought Andromeda edge with him and left it with me for a couple of weeks
36:47
but we played a five playay game with kind of Will and Peter and Peter son and and Mike and set myself and then as I
36:53
had the game for a few weeks uh Mike and I played a few games and we did we played a two-play game and threw the bot
36:58
in there as well worked very well but man did it you know it did it mess us up as well at the same time so so again
37:05
you'll get some Bots and some AIS that will absolutely work in um in Solo games
37:11
and others will say you we've not tried the balance so it's completely up to you as to whether you want to do it or not
37:16
uh but generally if it's just Mike and I or Mike I a another person will not put a solo bot in there we'll just play the
37:22
game kind of you know two or three players whatever whoever's there yeah yeah fair enough fair enough I mean has there been any games where you wish like
37:30
they had put a solo mode in for you uh any that kind of spring to mind it's
37:35
hard right and I think again we're looking at them so you know I've never played Twilight Imperium one of my big
37:41
things I must take off my list at some point never never never experienced it right experienced it no never play never
37:47
played it we'll have to rectify that one day yeah so one of my things I need to do is is to do a Twilight Imperium game
37:53
that shouldn't have a solo mode of course as well now I have played Eclipse
37:58
a few times I love Eclipse uh if there was a functional solo for that that
38:03
would be great but I think the only way that could work is through some form of app to tell you the truth because of everything that goes on on there um and
38:11
then you know I suppose there some some of the are like inish I have played inish I think I played a Fourplay game
38:17
of inish back in the past really enjoyed inish understand that that wouldn't work as a solo game as well because the the
38:22
area control but no I think you know in the main the certainly game that I would
38:28
like to play um I would like if there was the option of a good solo mode but
38:33
the development time that would go to make these solo modes is probably going to outstrip the kind of demand for it anyway so it goes back to that that
38:40
thing before that not every game needs a solo mode absolutely it doesn't and I've
38:45
said that in the past on one video I think was it um M uh was it pendulum I
38:51
mean I hated pendulum like really hated pendul not played it yeah don't bother um
38:57
and really hated a solo mode on that and I think one of key thing key messages in there was not every game needs a solo
39:03
mode and is a key one for he just did well that game didn't need to be a game but um didn't use solo mode at the same
39:09
time as well um but no I think uh no I'm kind of happy there's games I say
39:15
there's games I would like to play but they that would be the experience of the people but in terms of what's Happening Now in the industry how solo is becoming
39:22
a viable option for companies uh for Publishers I think we're we're in a really good place just really want to be
39:29
mindful that they don't just throw a solo mode in um just for the sake of throwing a solo mode in and then
39:34
advertise the game as one to however many players yeah um you know if you're solo Mo's heart bait stick it on a file
39:41
on BGG and tell people look there's the option to play it solo here's the free files you can have on B but we're not
39:47
selling it as a solo game yeah exactly it needs the proper development time for and actually needs proper testing needs
39:53
proper yeah yeah evaluation and stuff doesn't it yeah like absolutely worse than a crap solo mode he's your player
40:00
once and just go nope nope exactly that never doing that again that was rubbish
40:07
and we've all we've all been there um have you have you ever got involved in any kind of designs or helped develop
Have you ever got involved in any designs or helped developed any solo modes?
40:12
any Silo modes for any kind of previous games no um and I wouldn't you know I wouldn't class myself as a uh I wouldn't
40:20
even think that could class there's people far better at doing that kind of stuff than me I given an input on stuff
40:26
I did one recently this week for a game which is uh which is currently on Kickstarter uh played the solo mode for
40:33
that gave some input back on it but in terms of kind of you know no I I'm not
40:39
analytical enough to understand the kind of uh all the logic behind uh kind of uh
40:45
what what what one decision would impact the others that that takes people far clever than me so happy to tell people
40:51
whether it works or not happy to tell people what I think um is either missing or works very well um I can't tell you
40:58
how yeah yeah maybe if you could think about doing X Y or Zed then that that could work uh but no it game development
41:06
um and certainly game design is it's something I leave to the people that are good at it myself yeah people ask me
41:13
they go you're you because they go oh you love board games JP and you're in the Hobby and stuff so you ever thought
41:18
about making your own I don't think I've got the power I don't think I could do it because it's like you you've just got
41:25
to have the right mind set for it and cry like and obviously some people outside of the hobby they don't they're
41:31
probably just thinking of the the usual Staples that that you know that they know or have heard of and roll and move
41:37
kind of thing yeah exactly like so I can do those I did those as a kid like I think I made like 17 roll and move games
41:45
that were all pretty TSH and not not great um but like to play the games I
41:50
like playing no I wouldn't even know where to begin like I If like you know if like anybody in any hobby if you read
41:57
books you probably thought of a novel idea if you read B if you play board games you probably got one floating
42:02
around in your heads that will never see the light of day in any way shape or form and I think people the world will
42:07
be better off for not getting my uh uh any of my thoughts out in the open yeah
42:13
that's fair enough that's fair enough cool okay um so what we're going to do now Mark is uh I'm going to move on to
TURN 4 - Mark's Niche Number 1's
42:21
what we call our little niche number one section so Niche number on are some episodes we did we haven't done one for ages and we revive it but it's basically
42:29
where we we kind of think of obscure weird categories and then go what's your favorite game with great yeah so I'm
42:36
going put you on the spot a little bit because it's a podcast and if you take a while to answer I'll just cut it out
42:41
yeah the editing make make me sound Snappy make me sound like I know what I'm talking about AB I absolutely will so if if you
42:48
get stuck just let me know and we'll I'll just spin on and find some other ones so yeah I'm going to give you three
42:54
and let's just see what comes up right okay put you on your put you on your toes so what's your favorite game that
43:01
you wish you could play over again like if it was your first time so you had your memory wiped and you've picked this
43:08
game up and gone and experienced it again for the first time which one would it
43:14
be you know what I think that probably would be Mage Knight it would my first
43:21
game so important to you right that game yeah it is it's never leaving my collection I don't play it
43:27
nowhere near as much as I want to play it uh it's not a perfect game um but
43:34
just the journey it took me on uh from reading that rule book over two or three days whatever it was uh and to setting
43:40
the game out and playing it and thinking wow yeah and that's what it gave me it was that real wow moment and you think
43:47
about the daddy of of solo games I know people you know you look at the BGG uh kind of solo top solo board games every
43:55
year spir Spirit Island's up there at number one yeah yeah Spirit Island probably wouldn't feature in my top 50 to tell you the truth I'm not a huge
44:01
Spirit Island fan I get my people love it wonderfully designed game uh some
44:06
great mechanisms in the in there doesn't work for me in any way uh but Mage
44:11
Knight I don't think I've had games that give me wow
44:16
you too many bones you're kingom death monsters but Mage Knight for me just just wow and I actually met Vlad chattle
44:23
as well oh awesome yeah very first time I went to won went to Paul's meet and greet I spent the entire night sat and
44:31
bear in mind the channel two months old at this point I've been playing less than a year uh and I'm sat next to Vlad
44:39
battle for like four hours and we were just talking basic fying yeah great I
44:45
think Paul was like because I barely knew Paul we'd only had a couple of interactions over email at that point
44:50
Paul Grogan and Paul said you know people were like who's that guy talking to
44:55
Bladder there m at that point he's got a Chanel with
45:00
about eight followers yeah you got somewhere that's you got to
45:06
start somewhere so because I haven't played Mage Knight for kind of probably the best part of the year
45:12
now I know the next time I set it out I'm going to have that wow moment all over again and I'm still probably going
45:18
to play only about 85% correctly as well and I don't care I really don't
45:23
care nice nice um well let's look at another one shall we go
45:29
with yeah the favorite game that you like but you don't know why you don't
45:34
quite know why you like it but you do okay that would be fortune and Glory oh
45:41
you have not played it all right okay Indie Indiana Jonesy kind of yeah exactly that yeah you know the people
45:48
that did Touch of Evil Etc it's got the photo realistic artwork on there uh
45:53
you're moving around the continents it's pretty much roll and move uh Lots decks of cards going on all over the place
45:58
here traveling the globe getting relics getting Treasures
46:04
it's a pure B movie of a game and I absolutely adore it I just think it's
46:09
absolutely fantastic you know I think there the second version that's been released but the version I got came with
46:15
a CD soundtrack in it as well now I I haven't had CD player for God knows how many years but like everybody so that's
46:21
G unplay it is the B moviest of all bovie games you're ever going to to play
46:28
and it's just glorious it is like watching I don't know what's what's my one of my favorite B movies from the'
46:34
80s I don't know uh it's it's you know it's just I don't know it's like watching a a Red Dawn or an old
46:40
Schwarzenegger film or something like that it's just that it's you know Indiana Jones the movie has a class of
46:47
all its own so it's not quite the movie but yeah for like Romancing the Stone or
46:53
something yeah with Michael Douglas what was those quater Mass things like that that came out the 8S as well yeah so so
46:59
yeah it it is a poor man's Indiana Jones and it's all the better for it down to
47:04
the shanky production values the roll and move mechanisms the sheer look and Swingin of the game and I would play
47:12
that any day of the week because I just never have anything less than an absolutely fantastic time when I'm
47:17
playing it and it will be for not everybody because of the pure random nature of it as well you've got to love
47:24
chucking dice if you love chucking dice then go and check out for forun and Glory it's just so much fun fair play
47:30
fair play all right last and least number one question then for you Mark um your favorite game that you should sell
47:37
but you can't bring yourself to do it so I am terrible at selling games like I've
47:42
had a stack of 40 games in my man cave stacked up thinking right I need to sell
47:50
these yeah it's been there a year now and I still haven't sold them right okay
47:55
so I've had games where I bought a couple copy and the publisher sent me a copy so I've got two copies of the game
48:00
and I still haven't sold either copy of those games yet my wife you know my wife
48:05
is starting to get a little bit antsy about things now and in the back of my head I'm thinking oh you know maybe I
48:11
just go rent out a storage unit until I get around to selling them like no why are you going to do sell the bloody games pay money to store the games I
48:18
need to sell to make some money any profit I would get from them would be wiped out from that so my favorite game that I should sell um but I probably
48:27
won't well that's a tough one there um
48:32
[Music] oh I'm going through all of my games all right okay oh no it's not a favorite
48:38
game I don't even enjoy it that much but um so I'm not going to choose that one okay ah I've got it I've got it okay
48:46
Gloom Haven okay yeah yeah yeah um I
48:52
when I first learned about Gloom Haven uh obviously still relatively in the obvious oh this is the game that I'm
48:58
going to play for months this is a game I'm just going to throw myself cannot wait to get it and it was out of stock
49:03
and then I managed to order it and I got it and I played five scenarios and I was like I am so done with this game right
49:09
now I am so done with this game right now yeah do you know how done I was with Gloom Haven God on I bought Frost
49:17
Haven that's going to fix all of it that's gonna be so much better but actually it does I think my biggest
49:23
problem with Gloom Haven was um uh the fact going back to the town of Gloom
49:28
hien had no real agency and I think that so it became this kind of disconnected events if you like frost Haven does fix
49:35
that by doing stuff in the town yeah so I'm now kind of seven scenarios into Frost Haven having a far better time
49:40
with frost Haven than I am with Gloom Haven I can't bring myself to sell Gloom Haven CU think right in this weird world
49:47
where I'm actually going to complete Frost Haven again never going to happen uh but I think right once I've done
49:52
Frost Haven I'm going to go back and start Gloom Haven because I didn't tear any of the cards I kept them all in I'll go back and start Gloom Haven and
49:59
and I'll have a really good time with it so I've got two massive boxes so big
50:04
okay that are sitting up there neither of what you touched in probably 10 months now yeah thinking in the back of
50:12
my mind all right yeah I'll keep both of them because I'm enjoying I enjoyed Frost hav and I really want to get back
50:18
into it uh and when I've done that it's just not going to happen and I just need to sell both of them and move on just
50:25
move on but I cannot bring myself to get rid of either of them basically so yeah
50:31
Hefty though I mean they're big games in size and scale so it's also it's just that whole and I I hate selling games I
50:37
think a lot of people in the hobby hate selling games because of just the process of doing it you either waiting
50:43
for a convention and go you know what I'm going to just put them in the bring and buy yeah which means I don't have to think about boxes I need to get boxes I
50:49
need to organize [ __ ] and all that and which is what I do so I I kind of have this annual clear out you usually r
50:56
gridon because it's like the the closest convention I don't have to kind of shunt all these boxes around so I have this
51:01
annual clear out and that's kind of how I do it but every now and then I do I do kind of sell them on on trading uh
51:08
groups or depending on what they are right but I I don't enjoy the process of it no me neither and I've seen there's a
51:14
couple of companies out there now that will do bulk purches of Collections and I think you know what for the sake of
51:19
just getting rid of them I'm going to take a hit on it yeah but I cannot be asked with boxing taping taking them
51:26
down getting the calls back saying oh he missing you know missing a card like
51:32
yeah okay he5 off it yeah whatever I don't know yet so so yeah be bulked by
51:37
them yeah Wicked Weed okay um so I'm going to
What are you looking forward to? What is coming up?
51:43
ask you one last question okay which is just what are you looking forward to
51:49
what's what's coming up that you're like really excited for yeah okay all right
51:54
so this is one that you will know and because you're teaching it this next weekend is Revenant from M Clash so
52:00
again generally with mine clash games they will send me through early copies to kind of do preview material on Etc uh
52:06
not had one for Revenant because I don't think the solo mode was fully developed for him by the time uh by the time it
52:12
needed to go out to go to um kind of content creators but I did play a
52:18
Fourplay game three quarters of a Fourplay game at Essen with Alan Kirkby the designer yeah um really I think that
52:26
is a fantastic addition to the void fall kind of universe without replicating
52:31
void fall it's very much its own game yeah uh but you'll recognize some of the stuff
52:37
from there in terms of the icons and what happens in the game yeah uh really really looking forward to seeing what
52:43
happens with um with Revenant how it pans out I know you're you demoing it this weekend are you though teaching it
52:50
yeah Friday I think yeah Friday gon yeah so there's that there's captain's chair which you've got a copy and I don't yet
52:56
so uh yeah which is for a card game probably the most complex card game that
53:02
anybody's going to play in terms of a two-player card game yeah pretty much yeah yeah it's a game that's got a lot
53:08
of depth there but I'm really looking forward to kind of you know seeing what the final version looks like and I was speaking to David the other day about it
53:15
I said you gonna bring me a copy then to gcon he said he said I haven't even got a copy Paul Grogan but so for our
53:22
listeners I've managed to get an advanced copy because basically Paul's ordered in 12 early copies from Whiz
53:29
Kids and uh because he's winning a tournament over gcon right and I've got in on this tournament and also I've been
53:36
helping out with the the streams uh on on his channel so I've picked up my copy early because he's had them for past
53:43
three weeks so I managed to get the copy so yeah I think there's there's me there's Paul with his his copies and R I
53:49
think they're the only on even David and Nigel bookle like we haven't even got
53:55
our copies yet it is me just playing all the all the decks and stuff so yeah I've
54:00
been having fun chats with with David to about that and uh yeah but I'm looking forward to people experiencing it
54:06
because I'm a big fan of Imperium um I've always enjoyed that game and I I
54:12
kind of get lost in it and it's probably one of my favorite solo games just for the reason I just get completely lost in the system so now they've made a Star
54:19
Trek kind of version of it which is different as well um it's it's not just
54:25
a reskin as we know it's a completely kind of different game it uses the same system but oh yeah yeah which it had to
54:31
be for me and David knows this um I don't like imperum oh okay no I I've
54:37
tried it a few times and I've not tried the the new uh was it the Revis rules
54:43
Horizons yeah uh but no I I'm not an Imperium fan and you know David knows this um so when I played captain's chair
54:50
with him I was really surprised not not just that I liked it that I absolutely thought it
54:56
was fantastic basically yeah so for me it's you know if you like the Imperium system it's definitely got that in there
55:02
but if imperium's game didn't grab you it's got there's enough differences to make it a its own game AG yeah yeah I
55:11
suppose yeah I think the recent thing is uh andromeda's Edge which isn't you know it's like dwellings of elale but it's
55:17
not dwellings of elale there's enough there share some DNA yes uh but it's its own game and that's the same with
55:23
captain's chair and Imperium different Publishers obviously but yeah um the core mechanisms are the same but I have
55:29
a better time far better time with captain's chair than I've had with with Imperium so yeah that's great though
55:34
because I think the that system has been I say streamlined but not not through like it
55:41
doesn't lack the depth at all if anything more more depth I would say yeah it's it's a more crunchier
55:49
experience and you think Christ like you know an Imperium is not exactly a light
55:54
game no it's not but it's yeah just the way that the the rule set works it feels more
56:01
fluid and and yeah it's it's it's it's awesome I'm like come on David when's
56:07
the next box coming out because now I've got my copy and I'm like like get the next set of Captain the next set of
56:12
characters yeah keep keep going guys but you know and I'm not a treky by any
56:18
stretch of the imagination I am not a treky I I've seen some of the films not all of the films I wouldn't know Next
56:25
Generation from whatever any of the others are called there we go you see uh but again if you're a Tre you're going
56:32
to love it if you're not a Tre there's enough depth there to re make it really really interesting so yeah so yeah
56:37
there's two games uh we got Revenant and we got captain's chair I think Mr turky will be very happy that they're both
56:43
obviously turky related there I can only imagine he's doing the Sol mode for Revenant I'm sure he is I'm pretty sure
56:49
he is yeah yeah and then we we got gcon right which is uh literally this weekend
56:54
although the time this episode comes out we would have had it and it would have been it already yeah time traveling right now yeah yeah yeah the wibbly
57:00
wobbly podcast recording and release schedule but but no I'm looking forward to gri card it'd be nice to catch up
57:06
with you Mark and uh hopefully maybe we get a game that'd be great we always say this but it's time and yeah I'm demoing
57:13
and there all things going on but yeah I'm doing one demo I'm demoing Elder Scrolls oh you're doing the Elder
57:19
Scrolls are oh well that makes sense doesn't it are you getting to play or you just
57:25
demo helping to I'm just the teaching it to four people I think it is yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't mind I get enjoyment
57:31
from watching people enjoy the so that's fine yeah yeah me too brilliant I might come and steal Revenant from you at some
57:37
point though that's fine go for it so yeah well to be fair like from the demo on Friday yeah this it'd be there
57:43
wouldn't it so I'm sure Paul will let you have a little copy sure he might do yeah he might do Paul and I kind of know
57:49
each other exactly you'll be fine you'll be fine but no look i' say massive thank
Thanking Mark
57:55
you for tonight um Mark it's been really great to catch up with you and uh have a have a chat all things gaming and solo
58:01
gaming and uh yeah it's been fun and uh yeah I really appreciate your time no thank you very much it's a pleasure to
58:07
speak to you as always it is JP you and the rest of the crew always very friendly people um you know and we TR
58:14
obviously having met you in person I can absolutely understand why you do a podcast now as well basically um
58:21
so you've all got faces for radio joking true see that's why we don't do a YouTube
58:28
mate that's brilliant thank you very much
58:34
Mark thanks jippy [Music]
TURN 5 - The Final Turn
58:44
cheers well there we go that was a good chat with Mark and we just want to say thank you for for listening to the show
58:50
it's been really good to have you along with us um if you've enjoyed the show and you want to share it with one of your friends or one of your gaming group
58:57
then please please share this episode with them if you think they would enjoy the content you can support the show
59:03
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59:08
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59:14
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59:21
various different ways through social media or directly on our email all of which you can find Within our show notes
59:27
but what's left to say is whose turn is it [Music]