TURN 1 - Player Count
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[Music]
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welcome to whose turn is it Anyway your Bard gaming podcast where we bring you into the heart of our gaming group
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tonight we are joined by lots of lovely people starting with Mr Dan absy yell hello and Adrian hello and curlington
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III hello and this episode is all about Gamers First Impressions but more about
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that later how are we all doing chaps yeah good good yeah yeah yeah
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really good really good yeah yeah the Autumn nights are setting in yes AUM
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no I don't like that word why oh that's a great word it's an awful word yeah
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because it's a buzz word isn't it that the BBC uses it all the time only Micha Sten no not not even not even Michaela
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not even Ino either but like if you go and watch you go and watch like Thomas shaaka he's always saying that word is
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it who is that what a shaanak he's a meteorologist he's a weather man yeah Thomas shaanak yeah everyday's a that is
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a name and a half I know is it yeah yeah Al terminal was a very buzz word for the BBC if he work for the BBC well I like
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it anyway I want to know how Adrian's foot's getting on so we talked about his foot on theod yeah foot foot gate foot
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watch foot watch what's going on with foot watch it it's still there it's
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attached so does it still look like [ __ ] uh it looks better than it did when I first knocked it I basically had like
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what looked like tiger stripes up and down my ankle like in bruising does it now look like a moldy chalk eyes yeah
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basically now it now it just looks like a general shade of Bluey purple um
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across the foot so yeah it's fine I'm on painkillers and I knocked it one night going for a Wii and it hurts and the
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foot first one in boom well there you go that's the foot for those that don't know Adrien had hurt his foot during the
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Essen trip so if you want to learn more about that and his uh Shenanigans then listen to the essn episode it's very
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long but it's great so listen to it it's two episodes it's two episod but it's the first one part one is what you want
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to hear he he knacked his foot up go listen find out why and then come back if you don't know don't know if anyone
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in the UK has heard about Adrian's bloody foot no yeah I don't know why or the wi in I
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didn't wing it was it fairest to him is the least windiest person because he
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hurt himself quite frankly and gone ow and then thought no stubbornness means I
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need to carry on I've got no evidence to back up my uh adri I would have been a whiny little
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[ __ ] for three days and you guys know that but if you were if you didn't win
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about it and you managed to carry yourself through Essen for three more days on top of that then hats off to
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that is pretty impressive he he yeah I I keep forgetting it was like oh yeah Adrian's foot's knackered and he's like
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yeah but I got terc I did not forget but I got terrascapes I'm all
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right that's all right and he hobbled his way I'd have love to have seen him in like a walker or something that would have been
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brilliant with a frame if that if that's what you like then maybe we'll sort one out for you one day thanks anyway there
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moldy chocol guys is it anyway enough about the the chu IES and other ice cream products are available here uh
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should we get on with the gaming
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chat so it's time for let's talk about hex the segment where we talk about our gaming Endeavors and what has been
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hitting the tables so Adrian I'm coming to you first cool yeah so uh back from
TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
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Essen yeah lovely lots of new new games um and managed to get castle combo to
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the table we so from catchup games the same people that made far away which was my sort of probably the game I'm most
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glad I purchased previous year at Essen um and it's quite a similar game in sort
Adrian - Castle Combo
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of in feel and probably weight as well so with Far Away we've talked about it plenty of times the puzzle is um quite
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tricking a little bit opaque or obscure I think for most people cuz you're going to sort of play cards from left to right
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and you want to do things as you're playing those cards from left to right but then at the end you're going to score them right to left um and it's
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quite a difficult puzzle I think to sort of for some people especially to sort of see in the first play through with
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castle combo I think it's a lot more accessible I don't know that the puzzle's quite as as intricate or as
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sort of perhaps even as rewarding but it's a nice puzzle that's a bit easier
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to get into so with castle combo what you're going to do is is ultimately build a three by three grid of cards so
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a tableau of nine cards the way you do this is you've got coins and
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keys all of your Villages that you're going to that are on this sort of 3x3 grid um are available in one of two
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shops so there's the village shop which is three cards wide and there's the castle shop which is three cards wide
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and you can only shop from one of the shops at a time and it's there's a very chunky sort of wooden piece that
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designates when you're like which shop you can go to and you can spend a key to move that that P that piece between the
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two the two different shops and you can also spend key a key to wipe the shop clear so you get sort of more as well
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and that's basically all the keys do apart from victory points at the end so you purchase one of the villages either
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from the village or from the castle and add it to your 3x3 grid and you've got to add it orthogonally to one that's
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already in the Grid or if it's the first one you do you just sort of put it in the middle and it's a bit like Earth where you can move that grid around kind
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of things so you can put one in the middle and then decide actually this is bottom left but you can only ever get to the size of the 3X3 grid when you first
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put them down there's two things it will do it'll tell you whether the porn's going to move in the shop so you can
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kind of if you no no one's got keys you can kind of deliberately buy a piece that moves the porn to the other shop
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and knowing if they going to want if there's a piece they really want you can kind of move it so they can't buy from that shop um and then it will tell you
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like how many coins or Keys you're going to get depending upon how many of so there's um different types of of of
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people so there'll be like nobility and soldiers and farmers and all that kind of stuff um and there's different mix of
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them in the village deck compared to the castle deck so if you're going for like um a farmer heavy one they're only
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available in the village deck whereas Nobles are pretty much only available in the in the castle deck and you will buy
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that you'll move the porn if it tells you to you'll get the keys or the um the coins based on and it's not just what's
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in your sometimes it's whatever's in your neighbor you pick one of your neighbors and whatever's in their so if they've
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got six soldiers in their Tableau you might get six coins or sort of something like that and then at the very end of
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the game once you've done this nine times you will then the bottom of each card then gives you a victory points
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condition so it might be if this is in the left column it's worth seven victory points for every Farmer in the row it's
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worth or farmer icon in the row cuz some have two icons and sometimes they double up um for every farmer icon in this row
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you'll get four victory points very simple um sort of Tableau building in that sense the bit I quite like and the
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bit why it reminds me of far away is quite often you're going to run out of money and keys and what you're going to do instead is instead of being able to
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buy something you're going to take one of the cards out of the shop turn it face down and take six coins and two
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keys which kind of gives you a refresh of it's very rare having played it a few times already that you're going to get
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that perfect turn where you've got nine cards that are all giving you points at some point you're going to make at least once if not twice the decision to take
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that um card and place it face down to give you the resources you need to continue and for me that it kind of
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reminds me in Far Away of that point where because in Far Away quite often you're increasing the number of the card
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previously and at some point you got to make that decision to cut off and start the number low again or you might do it
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a couple of times in in your sort of row of cards and this feels very similar is at some point you're going to have to make the decision that you either don't
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want what's there and you kind of just want a bit of extra resource to set you up for the future or you can't afford anything that's there and you're going
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to have to do it anyway so it gives you that nice little um sort of balance that push and pull in that game of where is
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this reset point in your sort of your purchasing and your engine building um
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and it's it's really it's really simple to to play and that's why I think it's a bit more easy to access is because the
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idea of well I need coins and I need keys to keep going but at the end I also need adjacencies and things to be in
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certain places or positions or um there's one which is like our seven victory points if you have these three
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types of characters in for every type three of these tags you have in you'll get seven victory points and very simple
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stuff that I think if you've played Earth if you've played perhaps even terraforming Mars like the Aries Expedition version or some stuff like
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that that I think you'll be used to because you'll be used to the idea of this is a tag it's worth number of
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victory points if you've also got this card yeah um so I think anyone who's done a tableau builder of that
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description has got tags in it before we find this very easy to get to it was a 5 minute teach 20- minute play played it a
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few times back to back had great fun with it I think it's I think it's another great game from catchup games
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I've already decided what's coming off the shelf to make space for it next to far away so yeah I was very impressed I
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think it's going to do well said I don't know that the P puzzles is intricate as far away but it's easier to show people
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and it's an interesting puzzle still even if it's not quite as sort of
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interesting maybe or sort of unique I do agree the puzzle for far away is is I
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get it but it is my God it does take it's a what I call in my job but with a trainer is like you have to do a bit of
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mental acrobat acrobatics with it get your head around it kind of um that's what I found with that one definitely
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definitely I welcome something that's easier access don't we all curly don't
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we all uh but no you actually I wasn't that bothered by castle combo heard a lot of
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Buzz about it before it's a lot been in a lot of PRS and lists right but now you've explained it I can visualize what
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it actually is and I'm intrigued I think if it wasn't for having one shop locked
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off at all times so you only allowed to buy from I think if it wasn't for that it'd be too simple yeah and just that
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one rule little layer to it yeah just add and because it requires the cost of keys there's no cost of coin or anything
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that to move it yeah and because some characters move it for you and you can see clearly which ones do so you can
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make that decision to buy something that moves the porn and it might be like well this is probably actually a few worth a few less points for me but it gets you
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it gets that person away from the card that is really good sort of thing and put them in and I've only played it two
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players so far but it plays up plays up to five player and I can imagine yeah and I can imagine it'll be quite quite
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interesting especially because there are cards that say for each of your neighbors that or for pick a neighbor
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and one of those if they've got so the more players you have sort of I think
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the more going to make that that neighbor interaction a bit more interesting than than what I've experienced with two player as well okay
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might check it out for crimbo brilliant all right thanks Adrian so Dan what you
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been doing what's Essen P it's a town in Germany it's a
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city in Germany I wouldn't know I've not been but Essen Spiel which is it correct name is the convention there you keep
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saying no I keep saying I do keep saying no it's my own it's my own fault yeah you know um I I did get a bit of fomo
Dan - Nucleum
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when when I you know see you guys uh at at ESS and I saw some of the awesome games that you played but uh uh lately I
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have invested some time or we have together in nucleum last night um last night it was very good uh first time
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played um set in a in a 1900's alternate timeline where you are um battling out
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to get rid of coal power stations in favor of nuclear powered ones like I I
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described it as brass on crack uh and uh I love brass I love the
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original brass Lanier um a lot obviously you know everyone gets the love for brass Birmingham but I always prefer the
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original okay uh then I um now playing nucleum um it's just it's just it's just
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that bit more it's that crunch isn't it and I like I like that crunch I like that brain burn um I think the theme is
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very pasted on but excluding that the game is really really sound um you're
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laying down uh track um but these tracks that you're laying down have dual action
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purposes on them uh and um you can either place it on top of your Tableau to do both of the actions or you can
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place it down on the map to do one of them or both of them if you've connected to basically two cities together um and
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then um you are um building buildings and then trying to energize them for victory points um I think was it was
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great for first play through I came last um but that will tie in quite nicely to our subject in a moment with first
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impressions well I came third you came third and you taught it and I taught it yeah uh but it was really really good
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and I'm desperate now to get get it back to table and play it again because I really really enjoyed it I like the crunch yeah I'm I'm going to basically
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get cuz I've got Australia and now I've got CAU of progress so it's kind of motivating me to go get some more games
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some nule so I can play these things so I want to play Australia next which is basically for those that don't know is
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another map I've seen the map it looks good yeah it's a few different elements to to the map so instead of sleeping
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last night I went oh let's let's just have a look at the expansions for nuclear before I go to bed and that's what I did and I had a little look at
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that and yeah the Australian map looks quite nice yeah um Fighter for a two player as well I've heard yeah nice and
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the component quality is really really nice uh and I'm a sucker for a draw layer board who isn't who isn't isn't
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baby I love a jaw layer fair enough but yes love it new glad you had a good time
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curly what have you been doing mate well actually I've not been playing that many board games which unusual for me what
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what well I've been playing a lot of computer are you yeah sorry about that I've been playing i' been playing a lot
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of computer games and actually one of them is with Ian so you know I'm I caught a bit of the Ian it's highly
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contagious um but yeah so um but I have I I did play um JP takes a mecham I've
Kerley - Perseverance Episode 1
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been playing a bit of art no as usual all right um but no I played perseverance episode one for the first
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time in a long time uh with uh young Mr Dan absy hello
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good enjoyed it yeah it was a really good game been since I've played it it was compliment with wine and cheese yeah
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wine and cheese I mean you know I don't I didn't have the wine but the cheese was excellent the cheese was was good
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yeah but no um absolutely love perseverance episode one won't go into detail that people have heard about
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perseverance episode one a bunch of times but basically you play a bunch of people who have been uh who've crashed
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in the onto an island and yeah they've got to try and survive well part of it is well there's dinosaurs on the island
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and they're going to start attacking so you're trying to set up camp and all the different resources you got to get tents out you got to you know there's politics
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going on you've got to go huntter Gathering all the while dinosaurs are noticing what you're doing and gathering
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in numbers to come and charge the camp and so yeah it's always that little bit of two and fro of you know improving
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your own position but also fighting off the dinosaurs and what I love about perseverance is the fact that the game
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evolves so you've got episode one which does this episode two where you're now
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safe but then you've got to go you know build up the camp a bit more but then go ring and you start you know killing off
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dinosaurs and stuff like that you know and then in the third one you've actually now teamed some dinosaurs and
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you know you're riding them around like Dino Riders from when I was a kid um so yeah I just love the fact that it's a
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narrative that's ongoing and um yeah episode three and four three we've played at uh gaming rules and number
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four is coming soon I think it's literally in they both aren't the inbound but yeah for for was being
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demoed at Essen and actually we we did say what are the things that we missed doing and I completely forgot about say
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did you get a go on it no no did you look at it oh I saw the pictures yeah definitely looked today and had a chat
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with a few people about it but uh yeah that's probably one little regret and the reason why there there's a reason is
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I thought no I won't bother because I'm going to be demoing it at gcon and it's been changed so so now I'm not I'm
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demoing Revenant um which is their new one which is still great well the game's been changed or just you were told yeah
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they just they switched it and for Right Reasons it's for because the kickstarters out fair and they want to
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promote it so makes more sense yeah makes more and episode four is already
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it's in the past it's done in the bag now it yeah it's like it's in the past and the future and the future cuz it's coming but yeah episode four for those
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that don't know is is kind of like you you unlock a portal uh which is the same
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portal that brought you to the island in the first place and the original inhabitants of that Island are now
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coming back to claim their Island back and they've got six-legged dinosaurs that they're bringing in yeah I mean I
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remember it's some sort of like survival type thing isn't it I think it looks quite similar to episode one in that
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it's got those columns of each of the districts don't you don't you make a decision of whether you're going to stay on the island and inhabit it or you're
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going to leave I they were talking about a flight or fight kind of mechanic but I I think it's changed Fair B CH okay cuz
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that reminded me of an Acron the time track and then you then you have to leave your don't you rebuilding that
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boat so the the PE I isn't it you are rebuilding it so you can either um
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bugger off or I think stay and fight your way and fight them off and who know who knows I'm excited to try it the
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point is anyway the first three were absolutely brilliant so I'd be really shocked if the fourth one wasn't the
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same what's your favorite that is a really tough question I I think I marginally prefer
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two over one but that is purely because the the changeable skills you can do but
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one is so good as well three I've played the least so therefore the novelty is
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still there i' probably say three cuz you got put saddles on it you can put saddles on dinosaurs for God's sake the
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little are cute yeah they are cute so you know I I would say yeah go on three
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three same but a lot of that is cter than you probably have you still got three on the Shelf no just give it back
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yeah yeah give it back prototype I don't want to keep a prototype no they they're
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just they broken dinosaurs cuz they all 3D printed yeah yeah I think I broke one when I was in gaming rules as well
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snapped it said off whoops but anyhow any more on perseverance no fair
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play so for me then I had a little Suare
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after Essen and I wanted to get some some of the games that I didn't get uh played at Essen played and uh literally
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the day before I actually hosted that uh androm Edge turned up very timely and I
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thought well that's going to go on the list to play so we saw andromeda's Edge it was at s and they were demoing it and
JP - Andromedas Edge
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I think they had some stock problems and trying to sell it because uh uh yeah Logistics being Logistics and and timing
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um so I think they kind of missed out on that a little bit but but yeah my copy arrived and it's a chunky boy it's a
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very chunky boy so I got the deluxe version um and so I unpacked it all and
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then just gone oh my God this this production in this game is insane question yes is the Box chunkier than
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void Falls deluxe edition uh cuz that's a big box looking at my shelf void fall
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takes up the most room no I think void Fall's deeper could be wrong I need to have a measure off but but it's it's I
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only do my measuring with a Skyrim yeah it's it's a game that uh I'm not sure
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the production level warrants the type of game it is if I'm being completely Hest yeah
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but it's fun well I thought that about dwellings of elderville yeah but it's fun like it's there so I'm going to
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enjoy it but when you actually play it it's you know it's kind of a midweight game it's uh it is it is what it is and
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uh spoiler I enjoyed I enjoyed andromeda's Edge actually I thought it was a lot of fun I mean it's not going
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to be my favorite game just because of the type of game it is it's got Euro mechanics in there but it's got um some
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kind of like dice rolling in for battles and things like that it's well for me then yeah and and lots of card play but
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you could kind of say oh I never win any fights and stuff but you know it's not the end of the world if you don't because you're getting rewarded for not
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winning and and you know it all feels quite balanced in in that way and but I'll tell you what we had a game and the
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fun Factor was was there the banter was there around the table you know everyone was just laughing when people were
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trying to attack you and they just couldn't cuz they're just rolled for [ __ ] and all that kind of stuff anyway
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so andromeda's Edge what is it andromeda's Edge is a kind of mechanical successor to
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dwellings of eler and instead of being dragons and wizards and and all that
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malar it's now space space uh which to this my kind of jam it's a continuation
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of my ESS and theme of just buying all the space games and um and yeah so
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that's kind of what I I wanted to do so it it uses a similar mechanic of instead
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of like putting your little settlers down onto the the hexagonal map you've got
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spaceships and you you know when you kind of launch your first spaceship you can put it anywhere on the map as long
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as it's not occupied and you put your little ship down you take your action do your thing then any subsequent launches
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whatever ship you're picking then has a range on it so for example your transports all have one so that means
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it'll have to go next to the your a ship that's already down so you then limits you and where you can go and what
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actions you can do um uh then you get different ships like Fighters and science vessels and uh like a Heavy
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Cruiser and has different ranges and attack values and things like that um and every uh kind of faction is
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different the factions are fun in this game I felt like they injected a lot more fun than maybe in dwellings I was
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like in dwellings I am the black dwarfy people and I'm like I don't care or I'm
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the white wizard people whatever don't care but this I don't know it's like you can be uh um you can play as like fungus
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like there's a faction that you just basically like with spores and things like that and you got I think I was the
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mechacon synth born right so my my special [ __ ] yeah my special ship was
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the Terminator so you can kind of tell you what sort of faction I was I was literally just about like fighting and
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get geter yeah um but like I say it's really really fun and all the factions are kind
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of unique they have powers and and unique ships and things like that and uh really what you're trying to do in the
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game is you're trying to build developments and again the toy factor of this deluxe version kicks in cuz just
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like dwellings like when you want to uh kind of develop into an area you you put your transport down and it's got a
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little uh little nubbing on on there and you can build um one of the five developments there five different types
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and it's a basically a sculpt then you pop it down it sits on top of your of your transport and then you have these
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leaders which I can only describe as cubes and cylinders stuck together if
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you can kind of imagine a cube and a cylinder put on top of each other and you collect leaders throughout the game stinks of Euro that does yeah very but
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you're not selling the production deluxe version it is good it because they slot square and a cylinder
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yeah but they slot into these uh big like cities and things with your color so you kind of go Boop so example like
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the pegs do in in the ships in Battleship yeah but B but better but
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better um so it has a real good table presence like this thing just pops on
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the table it's just a color like all the colors are there it's like whoo for a space game there's a lot of color goings
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did though and uh yeah and we just had a blast like the C play was fun and the
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way the battles work is fun um so if you're in that kind of mood for a game where you know you're not not into your
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your lerda levels of a heavy combo crunching and you just want a bit of a a midweight blast don't take it too
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seriously kind of game and and I don't have many of those then
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this might be for you um but if you want that kind of heavy Euro experience it's not that that's not what it's about um
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yeah so yeah we we had a blast I think it was good fun um and I'm intrigued to play it more just to see if that kind of
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continues um or whether this is maybe you know is it a five game and I'm done
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kind of thing or is it something that just stick around I don't know but I I have fun with it sound like more my sort of thing yeah I think I'd enjoy that
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yeah it's a bit of a laugh yeah you know first tips yeah I was I knew you were about to say that like you got a buyer
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then if you decide not to hold on to yeah no I got play it first but it's not going anywhere at the minute you said
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five plays I said it might you got the countdown you've played it once but I might get into it we're playing it soon
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so that's four yeah true so you'll have three more yeah and then it's mine but no I'm digging it I'm glad I've got it
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I'm glad I'm playing it and I do yeah I have the kind of B to kind of keep going with it and playing it and explore the
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different factions and and things like that and see what what it it's all about but yeah the the bit I actually didn't
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mention which is actually probably the most fun bit is the the engines that you build so you buy these modules they're
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like little square cards and you put them into your space station on four different rows and whenever you kind of
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pull back the the ships like a return to station action and just like uh the designers which is uh Luc and Maximus
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Lorry they're a father son combo team of Designing and they in their games they
26:27
always try to make the most that return workers action which is usually the the crapp best action cuz I'm just going to
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do arrest your turn well this is I'm going to do AR rest and activate my engine and it's like get get energy do
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this spend the energy on that combo this and combo that get this and do that and and you can customize this thing to
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whever you want which is I just find it quite fun was it quite Eclipse reminiscent of that kind of thing I
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realize the outcome's a bit different but making your own sort of no not really cuz it's not it's not like you're
26:57
making your own blueprints for ships or anything you're just basically making an engine for economy and VPS and stuff oh
27:05
um so it's it's it's tailoring to your strengths and what you're doing um so
27:10
yeah just depends on what your faction's trying to lead you to do so yeah good fun cool nice cool to it yeah there we
27:19
go there's some games we've chatted about them now it's time for the main event
27:25
[Music]
27:34
and now we're back into the main event where I I've been thinking about this topic for a while now it's been
27:41
percolating so since since I've been kind of gaming for years and years and years and years and actually playing
TURN 3 - Main Event: You get once chance to make a first impression
27:47
games with you guys I've kind of experienced this like spectrum of how
27:54
Gamers approach their first game right so if you kind of consider the scene right the game's on the table people are
28:01
sat down ready to play it's the first time people are approaching it right and one side of the spectrum we've got you
28:07
know this is the first time I don't care what happens pushing some buttons and pulling some levers and whatever
28:13
whatever happens happens and I might flounder in it but me and they got the other side which is I need to have my
28:19
perfect first game I need to Ace this game and understand this game so I can Ace it and do what I need to do and and
28:26
I've kind of noticed in the gaming group so certain people gravitated to different sides of that spectrum and I
28:31
just always found it an interesting thing cuz it's like why is that why does that happen what drives you to do that
28:38
is it is it kind of a habit thing is it a behavioral thing is it I don't know and I thought you know what I'm going to
28:44
chat about it on an episode when I do my next run and here we are and we're going to chat about it and we've got the right
28:49
people on the podcast because I don't think I could have done this with any any other people because we kind of have
28:55
Team a and Team B I can think of one more person might be on this side on this side who yeah who baby oh yeah on
29:02
your side yeah yeah but I thought of Rob actually for this side I thought Rob yeah you might be right you might be
29:07
right yeah anyway anyway we'll get into which side we are but you can probably already figure it out um so I think
29:13
that's that's the kind of first question is who's on what side of that fence Dan hello what side of that fence
29:20
are you on before I answer the question yes um it got me thinking about first
29:27
impression of a game and whether someone has to Ace the first
29:32
game or not whether it's linked to how competitive someone can be
Team Buttons vs Team Maximum Effort
29:37
because I mean the side that I'm on is I'm all about just pushing buttons and pulling levers I it if it if I win the
29:45
first game awesome great but I never go for it but I am also very competitive
29:51
which then makes me think well maybe I'm in the wrong kind of team here because I would imagine that someone who has someone who's very competitive
29:58
must win at all costs but I don't feel that way when playing a game for the
30:04
first time if it's a game I've played a lot of and I know that I'm pretty experienced with then I I want to win I
30:10
want to win I'm not fuss if I don't but yeah I want yeah I will shift a gear I mean there's a couple games that I know
30:15
that I can that I'm good at that I can win um talking about brass earlier I'm
30:20
quite good at Brass uh and normally when I play Brass I win um so if I play a
30:26
game of brass and I don't win c i don't cry but the back of my mind I go to
30:32
everybody well done guys great game now [ __ ] off and leave me house you know but um I yeah but then
30:40
it's it can be game dependent and also it can be player dependent because if you're sat around a table with other
30:46
people who are competitive and you know those people are good at the game that you're playing then chances are i'
30:53
already kind of Pegg myself not to win so I'm not going to kind of push it so
30:59
much like if I'm looking at you curly and like if we're playing something like Arc NOA who I know you're you're awesome
31:06
arcn NOA I'm not bad at ARC NOA and we've played some games at arcn NOA I'm not I'm pretty good but I know that it's
31:12
going to take a lot to beat your Enigma machine that's your brain at that
31:18
game um I would find it difficult so I know that maybe maybe I should maybe I
31:23
should push myself to try and win but I know that maybe it might be a fa not that good AR I'm quite good pretty good
31:29
I've beat you I'm better at traron and anacron to be honest I'm terrible at traron but that's when we spoke about
31:35
that in in in Chrissy P's episode about games that we love but we suck at and triron is one of those games I love the
31:41
game but I suck at it so because I suck at it I know I I for me it's always
31:47
that's my expectation yeah so it's always it's always push buttons pull leevers don't ever go for the win just
31:52
enjoy yourself yeah every time I play it every time so if you haven't worked out out that's my that's my comfort zone
32:00
especially when I first approach a game it's new game new puzzle let's figure this one out yeah fine whatever happens
32:06
happens I'll get to the end and see if it was fun so yeah if you work out that's where I stand was like NC last
32:12
night yeah you know we played it I've never played it before and it for me it was just this is great this is awesome oh I push this button this happens and
32:19
then this this creates this combo or this chain or this engine uh and I'd prefer to to do that rather than you
32:26
know either potentially have AP because my brain doesn't work as fast as others so I worry that if I'm going to be too
32:31
long I'll be I you know and I I'll just bug everyone around the table I'm just taking too long just to figure it out um
32:37
so I'd rather just take a turn and see what happens yeah I'm super easy so me and you we're Team buttons team buttons
32:42
and Le team buttons and leavs and knobs and gears right so right you boys I know
32:48
the answer where did you sit yeah I'm similar mate I'm team buttons
32:54
so I just sit there and have fun and um yeah just really enjoy that first
33:00
understand it how about you Adrian come on okay so I am a buttons and Le's
33:06
person when it comes to war gaming um so it was what I've got into before board games um you mentioned win at all costs
33:13
so in wargaming in tabletop wargaming there's a term called whack Gamers which is win at all cost which is where
33:18
they'll kind of give you a negative play experience sometimes purely to win they don't care about your play experience
33:25
they just want to get the win in and it's it's a quite prevalent term in tabletop wargaming is whack gaming or
33:30
wack gamer and so in tabletop wargaming where I'm going to repeat that game
33:36
quite often first game I will try and take a like a list or whatever that will
33:41
allow me to to experience as much of the game and I'll try and make sure I get as many rules involved in that game so I
33:47
can learn it as best as possible when it comes to board games I've noticed that as time has gone
33:55
on especially that that's changed and I do feel like I need to understand the game fully on the first run through and
34:01
what I came to realize when I think I started figuring this out before JP mentioned it but I thought I'm going to have a bit more of a think about it when
34:07
JP mentioned this topic is that I think at least 50 60% of all
34:13
board games I play I play once and so in order to get the full
34:20
experience I need to get it right first time so I need to learn the game I need to make sure I've got it I need to make
34:25
sure I've understood the puzzle and that I've put in a good representation of how I would do you know it's never going to
34:31
be your second or third play is normally better not always the case but normally better but I want to feel like I've
34:36
experienced that game and I've given it on my all on the first attempt because there's a 50/50 chance at least that I
34:45
will never play that game again and therefore that has for me at least I I
34:50
am fairly competitive I'm not going to say I'm not but I wouldn't say I'm as competitive as some people in our group
34:56
but yeah what has necessitated this change in my habits I think from tabletop War gaming and how I approached
35:02
board gaming early on is that there were so many games out there that I only play once yeah and I I don't want to go away
35:09
from those games feeling like I've not put in a good representation put in a good effort manag to achieve what I
35:15
think I should be achieving in a board game so yeah I think that has what is more than a competitive nature that's
35:21
what's pushed me towards this get it right first time mentality fair play
35:28
I'm coming back to you curly cuz your answer is [ __ ] damn it um okay so it's a it's a complicated
35:35
question actually so I'm definitely not a bance person I I
35:41
like to understand the game give it a good old go really before you even start
35:47
have a decent idea of what I'm doing it doesn't need to be absolutely perfect
35:52
but I need to understand the mechanisms formulate a strategy and for that strategy not to be absolutely rubbish
35:59
now if it doesn't win I actually don't mind as much as people make out that I do but if I make lots of mistakes that's
36:07
where I get frustrated really frustrated with myself not with others I'd never I'd like to think I never make people
36:14
feel bad about me doing badly it's just I get frustrated with myself just
36:19
especially when like I make a mistake and then literally couple of turns later I'm like for God's sake you know I've
36:26
forgotten about one resource or you know this particular bit it doesn't really matter I make a silly mistake um yeah
36:34
and I just get frustrated with myself and I get frustrated with myself that I'm frustrated not enjoying it because I
36:39
should just be a button Pusher so you're frustrated with yourself being frustrated with yourself about gaming yeah and so the point is probably about
36:47
a year ago I made the conscious decision to try and be a bit more relaxed in that
36:53
first game how's that working out for you generally all right better I have to say better it's always going to be there
37:00
it's always going to be there I'm trying to relax a little bit cuz I I'm trying
37:06
Hey I still get annoyed but I try not to let it actually affect me more than a
37:11
brief annoyance um I can see you have the inner turmoil when we play cuz you
37:18
you literally you sit there and I can tell it's like this little fight that's going on inside of you and then you have
37:24
to say out loud you go curly it's just the learning game like take your [ __ ]
37:29
turn Let It Go doesn't matter like you literally have to have the word with yourself to do it yeah and uh so you're
37:35
obviously going against the grain a little bit and it's is what it is isn't it it's interesting yeah I you know it
37:40
was formulate a while ago I think it was an Acron that did it to me first where I went into it thinking it'll be all right
37:47
I'll learn the game off the fly yeah started it and well I remember that it's one of my worst ball gaming experience
37:52
I've ever had and anacron is number one now do you know what I mean so it's like
37:58
I hated it when I first played it because I just I didn't I didn't understand it right it was too complicated g go game to go in like on
38:04
the fly yeah so yeah I mean how Davey does it I don't know because he'll just go no that's right just teach me as we
38:09
go it's fine f and he works it out as well I've got to watch a video now that
38:15
anacron game taught me watch a video get prepared read what you got to read watch
38:20
what you got to watch ask the questions that you've got before you start playing and then I can at least be in a position
38:26
where I can enjoy the game and hopefully not get too much AP in it whereas if I go in without enough information I get
38:32
pissed off of myself I get AP everyone's you know it'll just it's not a pleasant gaming experience so I am trying to
38:39
loosen up for one of a better term but as JP says varying degrees of success
38:45
and um and and I do have to still consciously remind myself don't worry just just do it see how it works out
38:53
it's fair enough so here's the question for me cuz I've probably pitch this like
38:58
one side's really positive and one side's really negative and actually is it because do you see it as a negative
39:07
from your perspective and actually do you see the Downs pros and cons from both sides I got be honest I'm full more
39:13
likely to win if I sit there and I'm I'm punishing myself that's that's the
What are the pros & cons of both teams?
39:18
reality of it but but this this is it like mentally I'm beating myself up I'm far more likely to win because I I will
39:24
be as close to a perfectionist as you can be on your first the downside is that I probably won't
39:29
have as good a time yes is that is that is that an enjoyable experience no it's not not not really I mean it's enjoyable
39:36
when you like when you I don't know like you get a reputation of being good on your first plays and stuff like that that's nice and but beyond that the
39:43
actual game yeah better off chilling out I I wish I was more relaxed yeah but
39:49
once you know a game then I like to be a perfectionist I like to improve on my previous kind of stuff and do well so
39:55
you know as long as I understand the mechanism I don't mind mistakes necessarily when you understand it all but it's like my pet hate is probably
40:03
you like you build up you build this strategy and then you get there oh no you're not allowed to do that right okay great cheers then might
40:10
as well not turned up do you know what I mean and it's like I I just it's such a Negative experience I'd rather not have
40:16
played you know I know that sounds dramatic but it really does like you know wow but you feel like you feel like
40:22
you've wasted the turns that you've done to get to where you've got absolutely and and and and logic Ally speaking you
40:28
could well argue that I probably Now understand the game a lot better not the
40:33
way I look at it wasted my time basically that's that's how I feel it's not logical but that's way I feel I mean
40:40
from your point of view Adrian do you feel that kind of that I going say pressure but the way you approached that
40:47
first game served you well or do you feel that actually it's been more negative for you I I think personally it
40:54
served me well as I mentioned if you think about the fact that certainly for me I will not replay G half of my
41:01
games and quite often you'll have three or four people around and I can in most
41:07
games keep a good track of what they're doing why they're doing it all that kind of stuff then I can see how the game is
41:13
in that first playthrough so by by pushing the limits of what I think I can push on my first play and by watching
41:18
other people doing what they're doing I can normally feel like I get a pretty good sense of what a game is capable of
41:26
um and what or what players are of doing in a game and what they aren't so I do think it it serves me fairly well there
41:32
there are as you say there are some negatives um AP can be a bit of a thing on that first playthrough and um Tamira
41:40
Cur is one of my biggest sort of frustrations with that way of approaching a game is is the frustration
41:45
you forget a rule you didn't learn a rule you didn't take it in um and it it unravels some really hard work sometimes
41:52
you feel like you've really put your all into it and then a rule that you weren't taught or that you just didn't take take in cuz it's the first game that is a
41:59
pivotal rule just can pull that first play through apart
42:05
um and I've got better I think of making sure that I separate that from how I
42:11
feel about a game I think when I was first I think about sort of before I met you guys and I was I was applying starting to apply that approach I quite
42:17
often would think oh I've I've not enjoyed that game therefore it's not good and I think I
42:23
got very quickly I say even before I met you guys sort of very quick used to the idea of well just because you didn't do
42:30
well doesn't mean a game isn't good a game can be good and you could but you can just have these rules that didn't
42:37
didn't sit in your head sort of thing um so I think yeah I think the frustrations
42:42
and a little bit of AP can be negative uh bits and pieces of that I think interestingly you sort of saying that
42:48
from your point of view it's a it's it's just positive that I push buttons and I'm coming to that yeah I think one of
42:54
my frustrations with people who enjoyed doing that is that I can't predict your behaviors we can't either so so quite
43:02
often if you're in if you're two or three games in you can start and predict what people are going to do and I think those people who immediately are like I
43:09
must do 100% I can start and easily predict what you're going to do there have been games we've played where a
43:17
noncom in fact I think Carnegie for some reason comes to mind but I couldn't tell you specifically why I remember learning that game and going oh this person is
43:24
clearly going to do that JP and it it can only have been you because of the people around the
43:30
table just suddenly went oh no I'm going to do this but why I I want to experience this side of the
43:36
board but it's going to get you no points yeah but I'm just pulling levers but I've now made a decision based on
43:44
that assumption that you would do what is you know and don't get me wrong no one's going to do everything perfectly
43:49
right 100% of the time as to what you think they're going to Doh but quite often you can go well these are the two
43:55
or three good options they are going take one of those and when it's like oh they haven't just because they fancied
44:00
trying a thing that they shouldn't be trying to do can be really offputting for someone who's trying to get the game
44:07
and even I can be on my third or fourth play and someone new to the table come oh yeah I just I've done a bit of this and I've done a bit of nobe you're
44:13
supposed to go down a route with this game we talked about it at the start of the game like that the how I want you to
44:18
play play my the optimal route is to go down one line or kind of these combo
44:23
together and they'll be like ah no I'm going to try this and it's just like okay well you've got four points at the end of the game and I've got 200 I can't
44:30
I can't predict your patterns as much um and so that kind of can frustrate me a
44:36
little bit especially if I'm two or three game if it is one of those games where I've got two or three in and I'm teaching someone new or showing them
44:41
something new and I'm like okay well I clearly know what they're going to do now yeah oh don't no wait they've pulled the old Uno reverse card out and have
44:48
gone completely left field yep and that's it and I'm not sitting here saying you know one side's better than
44:55
the other and this that and I'm generally intrigued by it cuz I totally see that you know you know the push
45:01
buttons and uh Paul lever's mentality whilst it serves you well on that first
45:07
game and it does because you I can approach any game I don't care what what
45:13
my performance is I don't care if I haven't really gred all the rules to be honest and I I'm just quite happy to to
45:19
experience it and understand what's kind of going on and seeing what's happened but I think what it can do is is lead to
45:28
Lazy play as well it's like it can lead to like comfort blanket on subsequent
45:34
games so while you talk about competitive and we strategy and all of this stuff and I'm just like y i perfect
45:42
example of comfort blanket yeah and it just it feels like I think sometimes just you know I'm here I'm here for the
45:48
the fun like I'm here for the just experience around the table and and certain games I'm I'm I'm not like it on
45:55
all games but some games are probably might just lean into comfort blanket mode and and that might lead into you
46:00
know unpredictability because you'll have no idea what he's doing he's a wild card like and and it might depend on
46:07
mood and it might depend on many different factors um but yeah and I think that that can be a downside to
46:12
this mode is if you're not kind of like you need to switch it up now JP like you've had your first learning game
46:18
don't keep relying on push buttons as a strategy because it don't work half the time and and that can happen with my
46:24
performance in games it's not awful but there are C certain games you know I I don't do amazingly well at and that's
46:30
probably why Cava is mine yeah I I I I've played Cava to death uh I've played
46:36
it so many times I had it when it first came out and released that game's over 10 years old now yeah uh and um I always
46:42
say to myself right let's go different strategy now Dan come on let's do something different and by the time I
46:50
finished the game I've see the player board and the player board looks exactly the same as the last 10 plays that I've
46:57
done of the exactly the same I've done I've taken exactly the same buildings
47:03
I've got exactly the same side on the left hand side of the board is the right side side of the board I've done exactly the same things I do with the rubies I
47:09
don't get the weapons what are you doing oh it's Mr Sam Sams and I and I and I'll
47:14
get a score and the score will be between 65 and 68 every time and I can't
47:19
get away from that comfort blanket can't do it I always try but if you want to play want to play Cera with me knowing
47:26
which strategy I'm going to take feel free cuz I'll take the same one every time and I get the same score I don't
47:32
even know why I do it I don't even know why I do it it's just just weirdly Comfort blank Comfort it's Comfort this
47:38
is what I know I just I know weird and then end up going didn't work did it
47:43
didn't work the first time work the first time no no oh all these new players always it's work this time see I don't I don't mind um trying different
47:51
strategies as long as I understand the strategies I'll quite happily try something different that's definitely not in my makeup I'm quite happy to I
47:57
don't know like in CA I'm quite happy to do the weapon strategy give that a go that was what I did last time time
48:03
before that I went heavy down the farming route I did the other things as well but went really heavy on the
48:08
farming route I'm quite happy to try different strategies basically on a game depending on that so I'm quite to do
48:13
that but I've still put pressure on myself to do quite well which is really the Crux you know so it doesn't matter I
48:19
don't mind trying different things like that so do we think it's I suppose we talked about it like
48:25
competitiveness but do you think it kind of stems into that no no this is thing comp with
48:31
yourself yes that's it 100% so I I want to do well but I don't mind not winning
48:38
yeah so I don't you know if my if I do my strategy well and actually it just didn't work out that's not an issue it's
Do we feel competitiveness and creativity plays a role here?
48:44
the individual mistakes I make on the route especially when it's caused by a
48:49
misunderstanding something or missing something obvious or something like that so if you played your best and you lose
48:57
no problem makes sense literally no problem is it is it weird that you ask that question all I could hear was Deadpool saying maximum effort in my
49:03
head because that's that's how I think about it is I'm putting in maximum effort into my game like I want to be
49:09
there normally I want to be there and playing the game and I want to put my maximum effort and not make the mistakes and all that kind of stuff so yeah that
49:17
it's as say if you look at my wargaming I'm not competitive if you look at how I've treated other Hobbies not
49:22
competitive and so I think it's not a case of for me competitiveness everyone loves to win right but it's not that
49:28
sort of whack um gaming mentality or anything like that it's that I want to know that I've done the best I can even
49:36
if it's that if I think of It's a Wonderful World I've played that game 30 40 times and to your kind of point with
49:42
CER is my first two or three games I did each of the roots and I did my absolute
49:48
best and kind of push sometimes now I'm like I wonder if I can mix this color with this color and how I'll do that
49:55
knowing that they're not naturally alive
50:04
it mistakes doing this route sort of thing so that's kind of yeah that's
50:09
that's my thought process I think I do wonder whether because you strike me as someone similar to myself who basically
50:15
speaking you're very logic driven very logic driven now I'm not saying you have zero creativity but you probably do but
50:23
for me personally I'm more of a logical person than a creative person and these pair I think are probably the opposite
50:29
I'm not again saying either of you don't are not logical but I think you are more creative to look at my job well exactly
50:37
that def definitely you it's JP because you're very process driven in your job whether that's kind of transfer but I do
50:42
think you're a creative person in general right and I think your job a little bit like me I'm actually believe
50:48
it or not an introvert by Nature yeah but my job has made me an extrovert you
50:54
know and I'm not I'm not saying that it's perfect but I I lean down that way because of my experience I'm just used to it you know and and that comes across
51:02
when I like try to do video recordings or anything like that my intro that comes out you know but I wonder if it's the same and I think that is the main
51:09
part of it of of why like my logical brain needs to be able to like make the pro A B C D and put it all in a row and
51:16
just but that what's that's that same trait is what makes me good at games in
51:21
general yeah it's just not very good on the first play I think that's the point so would I change myself no probably not
51:28
it's gotten me to where I am pretty happy in general you know and you know even like it's really helped out in life
51:33
in general just being that logical kind of process you know yeah um it just doesn't make first place very pleasant
51:39
which to be honest I'm the opposite of Adrien cuz I literally for that reason I don't like to play a game just once yeah
51:46
it's interesting I I don't think I've got a game hardly at all unless we do it on a games day or something like that
51:51
and it's someone else is I've just played once I'll always play it a few times I love experienc a new game but I
51:57
have to get it right on the first attempt pressure because I want to it is but I it's a fun part of the hobby for
52:04
me I quite enjoy learning a new game um and getting it quickly this is where I
52:10
think this is where sometimes my bias comes in with certain heavier games because they're not easier to get the
52:17
first time or like we've talked about void fall before the idea of playing a game that's kind of a let almost sort of
52:26
muck around so you can play a game so you can actually then play the proper game to me just seems like a waste of
52:32
time and I get that loads of people will be more than happy with that um but yeah I like the idea that I'll get the full
52:38
experience on the first play um interestingly I do like Legacy games which is the opposite of that but I know
52:44
that I'm going to get the experience the first time I play through that campaign sort of thing but you
52:50
mentioned a little earlier about maximum effort yeah and that you must put
52:55
maximum effort into to your playthrough yeah you might agree with this JP is that we I find that with with our group
53:03
I do it less but with my main group down where I live I tend to do it more where I'm teaching and I do a lot of the
Winning pressure vs teaching pressure
53:10
teaching I do I do about 90% of the teaching if not more than that so because of that the maximum effort yes
53:18
but it goes into the teach yes and once I know that the teach is done and everyone knows how to play the game then
53:24
I can go ah now I don't have to put in the maximum effort anymore cuz I've now taught the game the pressure's off now
53:30
I'll just push some buttons to be fair you love teaching games I love teaching games I love the teach more than else
53:37
I'll quite happily teach that one if you want no no I'm all right yeah I love the teach yeah I love the teach I do it's
53:42
it's just it's my thing I like teaching games and I've always have been like that since I was into the hobby like
53:47
when I first joined in with the hobby um so when Once the teach is done and everyone's everyone's up to speed on it
53:54
then it for me what's more important is the people around the table enjoying themselves yeah more and you and you're
54:00
definitely like that 100% like that so you know if we had a game of eight
54:05
people and seven people enjoyed it and one person didn't that one person would
54:10
be not my bug bear but be I would be I would be not upset but i' be like they didn't enjoy it and it would be gring on
54:16
my mind which is no different than my job my job is exactly the same thing 50 people in a room 49 enjoy it one person
54:22
doesn't you're going to be focused on the one that's a lot of pressure on you guys though cuz but then the pressure you have is you
54:29
have the winning pressure we have the entertaining pressure so it's different if someone doesn't like a game I'm like
54:34
oh didn't like it never mind yeah I'm better now I'm better now like because you said about getting better about your your ability to play games and whether
54:41
you know you're beating yourself up like for me I get better now at not being so hard on myself when someone doesn't
54:46
enjoy it yeah I'm not as bad as I used to be I I used to be crap at it you're right you were the wor person I've ever
54:52
met before yeah like we have a game one of you has a bad play
54:58
experience that's my night kind of well was my night sort of gone that [ __ ] then
55:04
do you know what I mean like my night would be kind of ruined for me you're welcome I'm glad I got you over that
55:10
yeah hates everything brilliant playing with Adrian you're [ __ ] welcome he's killed me cuz now I don't care but no no
55:18
I think it is cuz you want yeah you want everyone to have that really good experience at the table and not
55:24
everyone's going to because not everyone's going to like the game hosting as well aren't you yeah but that comes yeah that does come down to the
55:30
hosting you're right because if it's a different you know it's at your house and it's your game and Adrian let's say
55:35
didn't like it I'll be like me that's that like the pressure is not on me cuz
55:41
I didn't host it and that's just how my brain works right um but yeah I I've got
55:47
better with that you're entertaining and there no different to my job if I'm entertaining I'm entertaining if I'm I'm at home I'm entertaining and yeah I want
55:53
to make sure that everyone is entertained I think it's how people handle it though so it's kind of how
55:59
people handle that in the group dynamic so like you can have a bad play experience you go you know what that
56:05
wasn't for me guys this is why fair play yeah but you know people having Tantrums
56:10
at the table Yeah is not fun to but i' I've had yeah and I've had that and it's awkward as anything I don't I don't like
56:16
it but it's like when we played a couple of Expos ago we played Clank uh and we played Clank for the first time and and
56:22
I've never played Clank before so I played it the first time and I didn't go a lot on it um but love Clank I was
56:27
trying to convey to the people around the table especially you curly that it just wasn't for me without without
56:32
saying this is [ __ ] you know CU for me I it just wasn't for me you know but I can
56:40
understand why people like it but it's just not my cup of tea but I didn't want to you know that's not going to be fun for anybody just to sit there and just
56:46
go this game's [ __ ] awful I will say that that game specifically and and Clank in general actually but but that
56:52
one I remember there was too many people who didn't know the game and there was the full five players yeah just between
56:59
turns even I was getting actually like I didn't hate it I was getting so bored it yeah it did and it was just dragging it
57:06
wasn't a good experience I think Clank first time when you're learning it three players is perfect I just give it a go a
57:12
game with three yeah I'd like to give it you know I'd always say give a game a couple of goes I think I think it's a really good game and I I'd be surprised
57:19
if you really don't like it you might I think that experience would be it was very meth for me but that you know but
57:25
and then I sort of sit there and psychoanalyze it in my brain as B lots of people like it why don't you you know that kind of thing but for me it wasn't
57:31
for me at the particular time but you may have been right with a specific game yeah yeah give it another go I would say but JP I've got a genuine question for
57:37
you and I really won't take offense right how was I with
57:42
nucleum did you find it did I have a Suk cuz I try not to but I I don't it's not
57:49
perfect microphone going to lie you can be honest I really don't you did a little bit and you were quite adamant in
57:57
that moment in that exact moment you reflected on this now since but in the moment you're like I ain't playing this
58:02
again no I yeah you're like I'm done with this I have a second question was he
58:08
worse with nucleum or was he worse with on Mars no I think Curley's experience with
58:16
on Mars was he hates it no yeah but it was fair for him for him yeah because I
58:22
really like on no because Curley had given on Mars three games yeah Fair it's
58:28
fair right it's fair so it's he played it first and he probably thought okay that was didn't go to plan
58:35
let's have another game which is probably driven by Davey because I think you and Davey played it first and then you had another game and then I jumped
58:41
in and I think you kind of made your mind up going it's just not for me and you were quite gracious about it but it
58:46
was your game at the time I really wanted to like it as well cuz it it it
58:52
made me think of terraforming Mars has got the same title I really wanted to like it and I was just like I don't I
58:58
don't like this but no you definitely worth a nucleum 100% yeah it's because I think you know what I think it's cuz it
59:04
surprised me cuz I enjoyed the first game so much it slapped you around in the face yeah it really felt like my God
59:13
you know and that first game I just smashed it as well like literally I don't know what the score was but it must have been like 300 or something was
59:20
200 something it was late it was late 200s for sure I mean I absolutely smashed it like couldn't have done
59:26
better some of it was luck I'll be perfectly honest but you know it was just it went perfectly and then this
59:33
time just I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near that level of frustration
59:39
but it wasn't awkward no I tried not to so it wasn't the case of you sucked and
59:46
I got it I understood where you're coming from but it's like you didn't go oh this is now an awkward uh moment that
59:52
everyone's now facing that's all it's fine he was like okay I'll let you Ste on that one for a
59:57
minute I did need a moment and you have since said look no I will I will give it a go you've obviously gone around it in
1:00:03
your brain yeah you've been thinking about it going calculations Tak loading please
1:00:09
loading so yeah so I think one of the one of the downsides from the approach
1:00:15
it as fully as possible is noting that demos are
1:00:20
different so a demo you are normally never going to get to the end of the game
1:00:26
so you might as well pull levers and push buttons might as well abdicate to your side of of the the fence as it were
Demos are different to first play experiences
1:00:33
18 buttons because you do need just to do things and just see what they do and all
1:00:39
that kind of stuff and and there is I find it difficult when then someone's
1:00:45
asking a 100 questions about stuff that's probably not going to really matter like yeah it'll inform you a little bit more about the game but it's
1:00:51
like it doesn't just pull the button and see what happens first and then worry about what happens and like you can ask
1:00:58
once that's done if you haven't had your question answered what that means asking 100 questions at the start of a an
1:01:03
hourong demo is not productive doesn't help with timing or anything like that and it's it's a frustration I've had sat
1:01:10
down at a demo and something I'm mindful of definitely of just just get on with it just doesn't matter if you fully
1:01:16
understand what you're doing or why you're doing it just just get on with it I would be your worst nightmare then CU
1:01:22
I would probably ask a ton of questions if it's if it's the worst teach ever and I have had these at demos as well it's
1:01:27
just a genuinely terrible teach you're going to ask the question to be honest most of the demos that I've been at they
1:01:33
have to be quick don't they so they have to trying to be quick and I can't learn that way I can't I I struggle to learn
1:01:41
around the table with someone teaching me anyway I much prefer to either watch a video or pick up the rule book so if I
1:01:46
got someone who I don't know trying to teach me a game I'm I'm I'm very much out of my comfort zone so I I will ask
1:01:53
questions because I don't understand yeah yeah just it slows the whole process down for me and it's like here's
1:01:58
your here's your hour great we spent 25 minutes asking questions to something you probably won't even get to or again
1:02:05
you'll probably actually see it as you're being told to and again there's two types of demos right there's the all rules up front and then there's the kind
1:02:13
of scripted teach and I actually now I'm starting to prefer certainly for more complicated games the scripted teach
1:02:19
because it it it forces those players who will ask the 100 questions at the start to not cuz it doesn't matter
1:02:24
you're just going to do this this shows this because 90% of the time my experience at least half of three qus of
1:02:31
those questions you've asked were answered in the first couple of turns anyway so just switch the mentality to
1:02:37
be like just special what does that do yeah we'll get to that yeah but what does that thing do the point of that
1:02:43
demo is to kind of are you intrigued by this or not yeah like that's it if you're
1:02:48
intrigued here it is find out more play it buy it whatever or actually I couldn't give a [ __ ] yeah good point
1:02:54
thanks very good point so yeah like I think we'll just kind of wrap it up there I just genuinely intrigued by this topic and I'm just
1:03:02
seeing where everyone's viewpoints are like I say we're not saying one version is better than the other so you know are
1:03:08
you team buttons which sounds like we should be in a panto or are you team maximum effort which is what I'm going
1:03:14
to call it because I think thank you Adrian team maximum effort see I'm more I'm more team Min maxer that's that's
1:03:21
what I'm looking for efficiency Min maxing that's what I say for maximum effort it's yeah because it
1:03:27
sounds so yeah let us know what team you at and uh be interested to know let's
1:03:32
move on to the next [Music]
1:03:44
segement so we have our would you rather and I've got one ready for you guys
1:03:50
would you rather have your perfect game first play but you never know your
TURN 4 - Would you rather...have the perfect first game but never know your score or know your score but have to experience everything the game has to offer
1:03:57
score or would you rather know your score but hav to
1:04:04
examine test experience every mechanism that that game has to offer you so that
1:04:10
you basically just have to experience the full richness of it so it's more on railroads basically you kind of have to
1:04:17
do it this way kind of thing I wouldn't say you have to do it that way but you have to try and go up every track a bit
1:04:24
or you have to mechanism a lot of GES requ you to do like 23 of like going after two3 of the
1:04:32
game don't you you kind leave the third behind this you have to experience everything sort of equally yeah which
1:04:37
will add stress and add a lot of like I've got to just like push everything and do everything and get everything
1:04:43
finished and completed this question goes into exactly my answer to all the rest of the episode really and the fact
1:04:49
that um for starters I'm never going to accept being like well you're going to have a perfect game like agree
1:04:55
beforehand cuz a lot of it is about the impetus of my own ability to get it right that's where I get the
1:05:00
satisfaction but assuming that that's not a thing I would say definitely don't
1:05:06
care about the school okay 100% more interested in that I've played well that is the point I don't really I'm not
1:05:12
saying I don't care if I won as Adrian said perfectly Everyone likes to win but
1:05:17
actually I don't care that much I have a question yes if you have your perfect game are you told have you been told
1:05:24
that you've won no but you don't know your score no no one knows scores you don't do scores at the end of the round
1:05:30
in that case it would be mechanisms every time if it if if if it was a way I could
1:05:36
be told that I Was Won but not know what the value of the score was and won by how much they probably go that way I think that that says the that you are
1:05:43
quite a competitive person I am I am I am competitive I don't like to show it too much because of the Entertainer in
1:05:49
me it wants to make sure everyone has a good time and that I they don't want someone brething you let me win just
1:05:55
make sure I've have a good time yeah yeah winky face emoji of course eggplant
1:06:03
splurt I said that to you eggplant um but yeah I am competitive
1:06:10
but I don't like to I don't like to show it because I want people to have a good time so but I also like to explore all
1:06:16
the mechanisms of a game so I'd rather I rather get everything out of it knowing
1:06:21
what strategy I could build up the next time I play rather than having a perfect
1:06:27
game fair enough yeah I'm on I'm on board with curle I'd rather I don't care if I've won or not because I know I've
1:06:33
had the perfect game in my head I know that I've done everything right I've not made a single mistake I've made the most
1:06:39
Optimum Choice every point I'll have still got whether I've won or not I'll have still enjoyed it so I think I'd
1:06:45
rather do I'd rather have the perfect first game and then not know that I've
1:06:50
actually won yeah or if I've won I'm struggling with this one for me um for
1:06:56
for probably different reasons probably because I don't care about the score at all like that first play score does not
1:07:03
bother me and it's just about you know just like I say just relax and casually
1:07:08
going in and doing doing the thing and playing the game and that's why I don't mind demoing and that's why I don't mind
1:07:14
those things I don't mind if the game doesn't finish cuz I still have a good time with it and I still like to experience the game so I think whilst it
1:07:23
would be fun to push all the me mechanisms and explore everything it's probably adding a lot more stress to try
1:07:29
and do all of those things and and that to me feels like more maximum uh effort
1:07:35
interesting to try and do all of that than actually just kind of going this is my thing and if it ends up being the
1:07:40
perfect play Happy Days did I win whatever so I'll probably go for that one just from that Focus I've got an
1:07:47
interesting question um that I've just had a thought to myself kind of analyzing myself so it's more going back
1:07:53
to the main episode but prompted by this question here it is so do you guys think that I am more
1:08:00
prone to having a bad second game like I did on nucleum because I go down a
1:08:05
specific strategy and don't really learn the whole game properly because I just go right this is what I'm going to do
1:08:12
I'm going to map out this bit do you think I'm then more susceptible are you using this episode to psych analyze you
1:08:19
know I I genuinely I I like to think I try to have a lot of introspection I
1:08:25
like understand how my brain ticks my answer to you this is I'm not like
1:08:30
invested enough in your plays to know what you're doing no to let alone to know what your second play is and whether you've done the same strategy
1:08:36
and I think it's just the way my brain works which is I've let alone got that level of investment of my own
1:08:42
strategy let Al yours I just I'm just kind of having fun and doing the thing you know I think I think you guys like
1:08:48
really like analyze it you know you really analyze it like you said I have to have that strategy I have to have
1:08:54
that that kind of thing in mind so I can laser focus all right well how about forget about how you've noticed that I
1:08:59
play do you think that makes sense cuz logically I'm like I wonder whether this is the reason why maybe I know again I I
1:09:07
think we're quite similar and I wonder if you have the same thing that I do which is if I get to a second player of a game I don't want to do the same route
1:09:14
yeah even if it's the most efficient I want to experience if there's a secondary way of getting really good at
1:09:20
things and so quite often even if the table is clearly set up to do the route I chose the first
1:09:26
time I will then pick the second route because I want to experience that second
1:09:31
playr and see if it's got more to it than just let's keep going down that singular route um and so I sometimes
1:09:39
consciously pick I'll quite often see that actually doing what I last did last time is the most effective but I'll
1:09:46
deliberately avoid it to try and see if there's a if I can do really well at a
1:09:51
secondary route even if it's not what's optimized on the board so I wonder if there's something of that in there for you because I I know it's a conscious
1:09:58
effort I quite often make with a second play through yeah possibly yeah very much so I think I think I'm too busy I'm
1:10:04
too busy to to to to worry about it I I think I I haven't got the time for it so
1:10:10
I'll just I like the fact that I'm just I've got the opportunity to sit and play a game that's that's kind of where I'm
1:10:16
at really it's like I'm at the table yay yeah that's that's all they need like need little puppy yeah just like he game
1:10:23
yeah oh look push buttons oh look where I don't have kids and my job's quite easy so you know all I do is just play
1:10:30
computer games and really it's good to know a little bit more about the curly on the Shay's Lune it's not even a was
1:10:37
it a great expectations episode but we're now we're analyzing you yes but you're welcome it's all good inside it's
1:10:44
all good right let's move on to the next one
1:10:51
[Music] so we are in the penultimate turn
1:10:58
segment where we're going to talk about what is coming up and what we're excited about so curly what are you excited
1:11:05
about mate I am really excited about why because I've just got my delivery
TURN 5 - Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Up
1:11:10
notification next Monday for terraforming Mars Prelude 2 of course
1:11:16
you are yeah baby yes yes please yeah so pre 2 uh got delivery notification for
1:11:21
Monday between 12:00 and 4: um yeah really looking forward to so there's a few new maps um there's well basically
1:11:29
for those of you who played the original game it's going to be a whole load more Prelude cards um there's going to be
1:11:34
quite a few new corpse and loads of new maps and a load new models and yeah just
1:11:39
really looking forward to giving it a well it's not going to be anything massively different than what the base
1:11:45
game is so more stuff yeah it's going to be just more of the same stuff which is good for me as far as I'm concerned but
1:11:52
the biggest thing is just the fact that it's got a load of new maps I think it's like six or seven you many well it's got
1:11:58
all of the fan yeah with slight modifications to balance them properly cuz there were a few that were like not
1:12:04
way did that but still cool for variation but now they've kind of taken the same ones and just modifi them a
1:12:09
little bit and then added a couple more as well they're all neoprene ones aren't they yes yeah they yeah they are so yeah
1:12:15
just yeah just really looking forward to it can't wait to get it to the table so soon as it's confirmed or actually bloody arrive because it's ups and
1:12:22
frankly I hate UPS bloody useless um yups yeah so they are my
1:12:29
worst delivery company like everyone's got a pet hate delivery company they're mine yeah um then yeah as soon as it
1:12:35
actually arrives I'll be whacking it up in the in the next few days I would imagine afterwards well availability I
1:12:41
know but please I'm try and make myself available I want I'm I'm I need a TM I
1:12:47
have an IT fix I need yeah yeah so yeah really looking forward to that and uh yeah I'll let everyone know and send you
1:12:53
pictures I might even put it on the social um yeah when it arrives I enjoyed it
1:12:58
when you said socials socials but you have a by the time this episode is
1:13:03
released this weekend coming is a special weekend for you oh really is
1:13:09
that release is it okay right cool yeah so um Devon b game weekend really
1:13:14
looking forward to it so it's November the 8th through 10th um yeah it's the first sponsored event by whose turn is
1:13:21
it Anyway podcast yeah um but yeah I'm taking a bit of a lead on it it and um really enjoying doing the organizational
1:13:27
stuff and um yeah just it's going to be a great weekend you know we're going to have pretty much a full um full
1:13:34
compliment of people there really looking forward to the meal and for those people who've been before we're actually doing the meal on the Friday
1:13:40
night as well which I'm really interested to see how that pans out um it doesn't quite get in the way quite so much I don't think I've always felt that
1:13:46
one on the Saturday evening Matt if you're listening we loved it it's one of the best meals we've had but we did kind
1:13:52
of feel like on that Saturday you kind of want to get into your gaming yeah and um it was one of the best event dinners
1:13:57
I think I've ever had actually um but yeah I kind of feel like it's better placed on the Friday so I'm really
1:14:03
interested to see how it pans out but I'm really hopeful for it um but yeah so
1:14:09
we're we're doing a bit of quiz on the Friday night um in between to kind of you know um keep the sort of in between
1:14:16
the the parts of the meal you know who's your qu master um at the moment me I'd like someone else to help but apparently
1:14:22
no one from the Pod else turn up so uh on Friday night no we don't want to be the quizy Rascal no say it so I'm I'm
1:14:28
going to be doing that by the look of it yeah really looking forward to the event meal we like I said we've got a full compliment which is really nice sold
1:14:34
pretty much all our tickets um so it's going to be a really good laugh this weekend and and what I really love about
1:14:39
it is the fact that the hotel is just so friendly and lovely and the rooms really nice as well and like although like I'm
1:14:47
going to be totally honest the weekend is expensive right however what you get for it is just such good value it's like
1:14:54
you look at it and I think I forget what my room is but it's about 280 something like that right which is a lot of money
1:14:59
but you think you get a full event dinner with like you so you get a a starter a main and and a dessert you get
1:15:06
you know hopefully entertainment in between them all you get two nights to stay and you get a buffet like hot meal
1:15:13
really tasty hot meal the next night as well um and breakfast and the tickets
1:15:18
included breakfast for two days as well it's just it's amazing value it's just it's a lot in one go so I would
1:15:25
encourage you guys you know it's especially if you've got like animals and stuff that it's really dog friendly
1:15:30
as well so you know we've got two people coming who I know for an Absol I mean two parties coming I know for an
1:15:36
absolute fact wouldn't be there unless it was for that just cuz it's like well how many hotels do you absolutely know are completely dog friendly to the point
1:15:42
where you've got like when we were in there there's a little um little dogs bowl and a little biscuit in the bowl
1:15:47
and you yeah exactly so I'll bring my budgies well that's it yeah bring my
1:15:53
long M yeah bring my budgies but no so we're going to have a little mini games library in there and we're kind of trying to get the Discord group going
1:15:59
and sort of talk about what games people going to play and who's happy to teach some you know and doing we're doing a
1:16:05
bring by we haven't had very many sign up for that yet but I guess it might get a bit of traction in the last few weeks so hopeful of that um but yeah it's
1:16:12
going to be a really good laugh I think and just something a little bit lighter I would say and yeah nice warm up before
1:16:17
gric comp which is literally the week after yeah exactly so we're gonna have two weekends of uh very much business
1:16:23
and lots of gaming but um be interesting to see um with februry as well because I think there's going to be more pod pod
1:16:29
members at that one as well this one's more of a tested to get a bit of a for how it's going to look let's see how it
1:16:34
works right yeah definitely looking forward to it Adrien well Mine mine's going to be gridon because we don't have
1:16:40
an episode between these two events because they're that close together um yeah always look forward to gridon
1:16:46
there's a bunch of us demoing games because Paul's got two demo tables going and I've already started making notes
1:16:51
for the first game um for the teach so that I can feel like I just make sure
1:16:57
it's a fairly easy teach for Terminus but um I just want to make sure that I've I don't forget anything so I'm just
1:17:03
making my notes all there so I've been doing that already and yeah just I've already got a couple of games booked in I'm playing some caman um on the
1:17:10
Saturday morning I think it is so um with Matt and and his lot they've
1:17:15
invited me along for cbang because I said that's one of those that I enjoyed playing but just never get the chance to
1:17:20
play again so they've invited me along to that um so yeah I just gridon is always one of those standout
1:17:27
bits of the Year for me with between playing all the games getting to do the demos and um the bring them by there is
1:17:35
always pretty good in my opinion um so I just always enjoy going to to do gridon
1:17:40
for three days um and supporting a little bit with set up this year as well which I offer every year but Paul's
1:17:45
normally got plenty of support So this time I was like early in can I support can I help you set up some gridon stuff
1:17:51
he said yeah I need I need some wheels so that's me driving up on the Thursday to
1:17:58
go and get some games from his and bring over so yeah fair play yeah I mean I'll kind of join in on that sentiment really
1:18:04
I think it is the events that are coming up for me um and I think I'm just doing a Saturday at the uh Fox and Hound um
1:18:13
Devon ball game weekend but gcon as well I'm I'm demoing um Ironwood which I've
1:18:19
demoed 10 times at Essence I'm pretty good with that one I've got that one down uh the other one is re
1:18:25
which I've only played a demo of and I need to learn um but that's coming up on
1:18:31
a the stream of gaming rules I think before so that's a nice little precur teach and get a full game experience and
1:18:38
then I'll take the game and raw book and maybe get another game in beforehand and then play yeah that's I think we're all
1:18:44
trying to get games in I haven't even got a copy of one of the ones I'm doing so it's like right I need to get that copy and then I'll be putting that in
1:18:50
exactly but now I'm the same I've got um I've got a few games booked with with different people as well At gri Con I'm
1:18:56
looking forward to that it's a bit of a a dabble with some of our listeners as well you kind of reached out and said oh
1:19:02
what you you got some time at gcon can we get a game in it's like yeah why not let's do it so yeah so I think on every
1:19:07
day there's a game with uh yeah some of our listeners which I'm really looking forward to yeah that's cool yeah so
1:19:14
that's mine Dan is it gric Con or is it uh or is it have a board game I'm just
1:19:20
going to sit on my ass and probably just be in my knickers no I I will be I've got a couple games coming up um the next
1:19:27
couple of weeks I've got lbo with you not played yet so yes I actually like
1:19:34
lib nice cuz you've got taste
1:19:39
nice and also I'm going to be playing three ring circus oh have to let us know
1:19:45
about that one I will do yes um as I've had it on the shelf for a little while not played it yet so I'm going to learn
1:19:50
and teach that uh I think the week after next um which I'm forward to as well cuz I like the theme um as it's slightly
1:19:58
linked to my job my alter iGo yeah um three rings uh not the three rings the
1:20:04
circus part uh so so yeah I'm looking forward to playing that um and I'm I'm a bit of a a d lover so yes I'm all over
1:20:11
that um the have got a couple games that I think were released the ESS and that were kind of catching my eye that I look
1:20:18
like the look of but I have daoshi yes so the rule book is impossible and they
1:20:24
is even worse to learn that it's not impossible the rule book it's just bad it's not so
1:20:31
I picked up that and I picked up Salan c as well which I think you've got as yes I've got it yeah just on my shelf I need to play it I need to give that a go but
1:20:38
yeah and the other one they released that was already released by about month or so was the rockard 1977 I think
1:20:44
it's I wasn't so sure on that one so I've got daoshi so if you want to get
1:20:49
that game just let us yes yes I've got a few a few de games on the sh I started to play but that is definitely one of
1:20:55
them but what would I know from d uh cast Castle White Castle uh red
1:21:01
Cathedral lacosa Boku po I remember I played Boku
1:21:07
yeah it just seems like one I've probably not got much experience with good games White Castle's fantastic what's the difference between White
1:21:13
Castle and the new one the T one what White Castle matcher is just an expansion it's an expansion I don't I
1:21:19
don't know anything about it I see the box I don't know about it's an expansion for the base game okay need to get on on that
1:21:25
I refuse to buy it CU it won't fit in the base box yeah I need to make a game request to you actually oh do you yeah
1:21:32
Castle a burgundy play it I think it might be something that would be Street I think Becky will like
1:21:40
it I think so we can get we can get gridon or something before then in I'll join in I like castles it's good
1:21:48
fun right I think we're there aren't we yeah I think we're there and we are done Z so this is my last episode of my run
1:21:57
which is I was going to say flown by but it hasn't cuz I think the recordings have been quite far apart in in the
1:22:05
grand schemes of things so we've had like lots of breaks and essen's been in the middle and we've had all sorts of stuff going on but this is my last
TURN 6 - The Final Turn
1:22:12
recording of the road you must be handing it over to a really awesome guy well sort of yeah yeah but he can make a
1:22:18
banana at the moment he looks like Harry Hill but who's let himself go who shouts loudly in the mic and to my ear hog yeah
1:22:25
you love it yeah so if you haven't guessed it Dan is taking over as first player for the next three episodes he's
1:22:31
already got those ideas up and running and we're pretty much recording from next week onwards so so yeah so we'll be
1:22:37
literally cracking on with those I'm look forward definitely looking forward to that um but now all I've got to say
1:22:43
is thank you very much for listening uh to us on this episode and if you like
1:22:48
what we do please uh you know do the usuals like subscribe and get in touch on all our socials and we love it keep
1:22:54
doing it and um keep you know asking us what we're playing and what's coming up and all that good stuff but if you
1:23:01
really enjoy the show uh please share it with someone that you know uh anyone in your gaming group or anyone you think
1:23:08
would enjoy this uh kind of episode and all our previous episodes because we love it when we can kind of share that
1:23:13
around um but yeah if you want to support the show we are on coffee which is K fi and you can kind of support the
1:23:20
show financially and it just helps us out a little bit just helps us get better stuff and it helps us just keep
1:23:26
it going cuz uh we just appreciate all the support from our current uh supporters uh cuz without you we won't
1:23:32
be here so we thank you as always but I think that kind of leaves us it to say
1:23:39
you know this turn is it [Music]