TURN 1 - Player Count
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[Music]
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hi welcome to whose turn is it Anyway a podcast all about our gaming group and of course board games I'm Chris P your
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new first player and friendly neighborhood cookware and I'm joined by other players tonight JP
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love it already hello and Adrien hello hi guys how are we doing today I'm good
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I'm good cook qu that's it in reference to your air frying nickname yes yeah I thought it work quite nice no I like it
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I like it well welcome to being first player for the first ever time Chris yes thank you it's pleasure to be here yeah
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it's really good we always encourage every one of our players to to have a go at it and uh I know you're probably
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going to be a little bit nervous cuz it's your first time doing it and oh yeah this chair is shaking
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but it's cool it's cool cuz yeah every everyone should have a have a go at the chair and have a go at the topics so
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yeah glad to have you here mate yeah hopefully the subjects I've chosen are okay and everyone obviously enjoys them
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and just see what we can do I'm I'm excited to talk about today's today's this episode's Tonight Tonight topic
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yeah yeah yesterday today Yesterday Today Tomorrow the week right jents let's talk about hex
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okay so this is part of the podcast where we talk about things that we've been up to recently game related or not so JP what have you been up to lately
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well considering I W supposed to be on tonight's episode so that's true I've had to yeah we've had a little bit of a
TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
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behind the curtains we've had a little bit of a reshuffle tonight we've had Motorway accidents we've had traffic all
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sorts of stuff going on haven't we but everyone everyone is fine in the podcast group oh God yeah yeah yeah not just
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that sounded quite s fatality we're all good we're all good just very bad traffic and not be able to
JP - Beyond The Sun: Leaders of the New Dawn
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get anywhere I mean it's hard enough to get three or four people around the table at the best of times but you know life and stuff gets in the way so I've
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stepped in and had to look at my back catalog of plays and think what should I talk about tonight and actually I want
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to talk about uh beyond the sun leaders of the new dawn which is the expansion
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to beyond the sun very quickly for those that don't know what beyond the sun is beyond the sun is a basically Tech Tree
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the board game exciting it to be fair the the board doesn't look that super
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exciting like you you put a picture up and you go is that it um it's it's
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pretty dry but the theme is is that you're kind of researching uh technology
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um for your kind of factional company or Corporation and to basically get better
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and better better to go beyond the Sun and as the name implies as the name
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implies and um but what's really unique about it is that when you research technology you start like level one and
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then you'll kind of go to level two level three level four and you have to do certain prerequisites in order to get
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the the next levels on and on and on then the cards that you you kind of draw or research end up becoming worker
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placement spots so you get a variable board every time you play so that's what I really like about it is no game is the
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same you know you've got the the Statics um you know standard actions that you have on the left hand side um which are
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always always the same but and you kind of need them otherwise the game will break but generally after the first four
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level ones which are always the same but in random order level two threes and fours are all just different depending
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on what you draw from that deck so so yeah it's quite cool it uses dice that you don't roll um which is my favorite
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always nice nice and that basically tracks your um scientists um whether they are basically
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track Supply crates when you get them out of your player board they become scientist or they can become ships and the ships
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have level one two three and four on them there's your six six sides of the dice and it works really well like as a
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resource tracking and um yeah kind of limitation because you can only have so
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many of these things on the board and on the side you have this uh exploration uh area where you can kind of travel around
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different systems and colonize those systems as well so there's a bit of area control that goes on lot of ARG bargy
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usually with the with the different people like kicking people out um um so yeah no it's just a nice clean game and
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we play with the expansion the expansion adds I wouldn't say it's an essential expansion at all but I really enjoy it
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it's not one of those expansions that twists the game up at all it's kind of adds more variety in the setup um adds
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another two factions in there and a bunch more cards in Tech so it's pretty simple to to kind of play and it's one
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of those ones where you've got it you probably always just play with it even with new players you know um but the
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thing I really enjoy about it is that you get to do a snake draft at the start
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with um two leaders you get domestic leaders which are your blue back cards and your red military leaders and
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they'll give you kind of a power or or an ability or maybe a big setup Boon or
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or something like that that you can um kind of try and combo with each other where you can so one of your domestic
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leaders might be that every time you do a certain action you move this token down then they can pull that token back
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to get a bunch of resources is quite simple some of it might be that you can always research without paying any costs
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uh but it's always has to be the lowest level research that you can possibly do you know there's just different things
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in there and it just really kind of mixes up the play style and the military ones as you probably would expect just
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helps you move around the exploration board a lot more you can help colonize easier or get big powerful ships out all
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that kind of stuff um yeah really really enjoyed that and for me it's just I keep
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being surprised that how how quick it plays like we had a three player last night and it was under 90 minutes just
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zip round like Bing do this thing you'll go ding ding ding do this thing you'll go ding oh crap it's me again right off
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you go and we just kind of circle around and it's just it's just a delight to play it's just really like it's not too
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heavy at all um you know I like my heavy games I like being kind of brain burnt at the table this one doesn't and I
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quite like it for that because I feel like it can be laser focused in it there
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right I need to get level four Tech I really need to because there's achievements on the side and I really want to get that one before curlyy does
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cuz everyone wants to get an achievement before Curley does right that's the way it works and it's like right I can see I
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can get there in five moves and I can see it so I can plan and I can execute and I can literally and because the turns are quick I don't feel like I get
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lost on my own thought and plans and sometimes with these games where you have a lot of downtime you what was I doing again and then your whole plan
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collapses in your brain whereas this is like you can literally just Hammer that thing home and and yeah it's pretty good
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game we ended up um me and curlyy he he pck Me by three points um but it's
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pretty bloody close that's probably one decision in the game was that a first play or was that no no no we've played I
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must have played this game over 10 times now probably about even with the expansion prob or four with the
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expansion yeah fair enough yeah yeah you only got yourself the blame then that you lost I didn't know what I was doing
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be now I knew what I was doing but he he just P me um and he got he got some good uh level four Technologies at the end
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which they're usually just good for scoring they really just kind of give you a boost in in different things so
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yeah really enjoy it I think I recommend it for for anyone who kind of likes Spacey themes and doesn't want anything
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too heavy and want something they can play I say under two hours if you play four player yeah it's good fun it's been
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on my list to play since before you even picked it up it was on my kind of I'm really interested in this game and then
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every time you put up a date look at it and go Oher can't make that so I should probably request that you bring it to
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one of the like cons or something that that we do because I really do want to give it a go and see what it's see if it
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lives up to kind of my expectation of what I had in my head but you guys always talk kind of glowingly about it
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between games so I think you'd enjoy it because it's it's not that it's not because it's not heavy but I just yeah
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knowing the games you like and the the style of play that you like I think it would be up your street but who knows
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with you yeah you never know how things will end but yeah it is one that I've I've watched playthroughs like I watched
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playthroughs when it first got launched and thought this will be a good game I'm going to enjoy this sort of thing and and I nearly bought it at launch and
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then you were like like a few months later I think you sort of picked it up and I was oh that's good I get to play that we're a year and bit on and I still
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haven't played it I picked up as a whim I I just thought it looks quite cool and I think I watched a video and I thought
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yeah let give it a go and it wasn't expensive so it was just like n it's not that great I'll just sell it on
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I'm not selling it on it's good yeah I'm glad you've enjoyed it yeah no has pride of place on the Shelf now so perfect
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absolutely and it's not the box is even that big as well that's the beauty yeah is a nice box yeah going on to later is
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it a nice box though it's all right no it's not too big small it's thin it's a
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thin box it's a thin box oh 30 so yeah right quite nice it's cax friendly oh
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good good you can stack a few of them you can get a few games in and then you can put beyond the Sun at the top and it just slivers straighty AB
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yeah cuz I'm a horizontal stacker not a vertical stacker I'm a horizontal stacker no why how am I outnumbered I've
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only got I've only got really big boxes though so it's fine yeah so it don't really matter you get two in either I get like one in and then I go I can't
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really fit anything else in there I have to do that's fine there the your debate sorry M yeah no worries how about you
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then Adrian what you been up to um well one of the things I've been up to is printing out a 3D printed um insert for
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White Castle which has been quite fun because again it's one of those games that say don't really fit back in the
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box I was going to say the game or the restaurant no not the restaurant I forget that it's a thing the the
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restaurant White Castle we don't have them in this country we don't we don't it's a do we no we don't no we don't
Adrian - Cascadero
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it's an American American reference um and I found a like a 3D printed file
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I did what I always do which is I find some 3D printed files online and then realize that I don't quite like
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something about it so I print half of the bits that I like off and then spend the rest of the time
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redesigning the rest of the insert that I've decided not to print off and this one was horrible it was CU it's such a
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small box you got so many bits to fit in it it was really not a nice experience but it felt like quite achievement when
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I got to the end and and it all worked out and everything slotted in the spots everything fits just everything it does
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literally just just fits so it's quite satisfying that but what I really wanted to talk about was a game that I played
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recently called cascadero so cascadero is a game by Rina kitzia
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and the artwork is done by Ian ool so it's um it's a nice looking game very
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sort of simple it reminded me for some reason of kinra and I think it's just because the tracks on the right hand side of the board um so it kind of gave
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me that Vibes it doesn't play anything like it but it just gave me that Vibes when we took it out of the box um and
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having played rebirth at Expo knowing that's a sort of you have a
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hex that you place on the board and depending upon how you place them gives you points and knowing that cascadero is
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basically the same principle is you you've got a bunch of hexes that you'll place on the board uh wait they're not
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hexes they're little um they're little meeples of people on horses but you place them on on the hex's on the board and depending upon where you put them
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will give you points and then we'll put you up the tracks on the right or score you some achievements which doesn't sound too crazy sounds pretty standard
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um but there is some real there's some AP in this talking about Zippy turns for
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yours we had a few turns that really um slowed down the game and it's where I
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think rebirth might for me slightly out pip cascadero because I didn't experience that with rebirth but the
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decision space is that much bigger so if you do like your sort of Crunchy just sort of tile placement games almost
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there's a lot here so what you're trying to do is you on your turn you literally can take one of your little horse person
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meeples and you're going to just put it on a hex now if the one you put down links his
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links two of the so most of the hexes are like a bige color if you link the two that are different colors you go up
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on those color tracks and everyone starts with a color so for instance I was the farmer so I was yellow so I I
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wanted yellow to go up to the Top If I don't get to the top of the yellow tracker I don't score any points at the
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end of the game you are locked out so you could have the best engine working in the world but if you haven't got your
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farmers who you're kind of the patrons of I'm guessing right to the top you're not going to score any victory points
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after that once everyone's kind of got to the top which happened in our game everyone got to the top I think you'd have to kind of be playing quite janky
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to not get to the top of your particular one because of how the board State set starts off but I think so yeah so
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everyone got to the top of their relevant tracks and then it was about points
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and each part of the track will either say now place another horse or gain some victory points or you can move a horse
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and stuff like that now the the little sort of wrinkle in it is is that if you
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if I had I'm trying to think of how best to describe this when you can't see the board because it's quite tough so if on
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one side of the hex you had two of your horses linking to another hex that would score you two points for one hex and two
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point two lots for the other hex probably and I'll talk about that a bit more in a second and then if you on the
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complete opposite side of the hex they're not touching touch took two horses and so it touched the other hex
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on the other side you would then get another two of each if at any point those link up it counts as the same
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group so you don't score the one that it's already touching so you need to try and create lots of separate groups but
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nearly all the achievements are about you joining them all up so to go up the track you want to keep them all separate
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to get the achievements you want to keep them all as a group and the other little wrinkle is that you get more points if
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you're the second or third or later person to link this hex so really what
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you want to do is wait for someone else to link this hex up and then come in and join your two hex's up and that gives
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you more points up the track yeah it's there's all these like little wrinkles and stuff that make it quite an interesting game because so one of the
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players was going for this big mass of of like like he was just going for like a big Mass through the middle linking up
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as many hex as he could to score loads of the big achievements and they're a lot of points if you can link up up all
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of them or like two of every single color um and that's what he was going
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for now what he left himself was this little bridge in the middle that I blocked and it meant that he came last
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because he couldn't whereas and the person who won did sort of two rough areas that were
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linking a lot of things together but in two distinct Parts what I did was the complete opposite of all of that so I
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came second with the and only by two points with this tactic which was I was just linking up the ones that gave me
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the biggest boost up all the tracks so that I was scoring points for going up as many of the tracks as
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possible and the fact that I only came up two points afterwards made me feel like that's a genuinely legitimate
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tactic yeah yeah Fair um rather than just trying to link all of these different colored hexes together which I think is probably the route that most
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people will think of doing originally I just saw everyone else doing it I was the last player in turn order and was like n I'm not going to do that I'm
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going to do something else and just try to rock it up as many of these tracks as possible and it it really does work but
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the problem is is with rebirth when you pick up a hex it will tell you this is a power or this is a farm and you have to
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place it on a matching type of hex with cascadero you've got your horse and you
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can place it anywhere you like amongs like 200 hex's or whatever is on this board it's a lot of hex's and obviously
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there's going to be some most turns there going to be an obvious choice an obvious two or three choices but sometimes especially towards the end of
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the game you're like right I've got three of these left I can hook up these two or this one one or I and it gets
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really crunchy and the game slowed down just a little bit too much for my liking still thoroughly enjoyed it but I think
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it's where I am probably I've been thinking about picking up rebirth when it gets to retail and I think I'm probably still going to do it CU I
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enjoyed cascadero that much but there was AP which I don't think will be in rebirth they're not exactly one for one
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because you haven't got tracks and that in rebirth but it felt very similar and it's a rhino kitzia gam it felt like it was going to fill MH the same Niche but
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yeah hopefully that makes sense to people listening cuz even I was struggling to work out how to explain this game in my head but um it's the new
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hotness like the it's newish the kickstarter only landed like 3 weeks ago so a lot of people will probably be
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playing this that that backed it if they're Rhino kitzia fans of not necessarily his auction games but of his
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sort of tile placement games um I think there'll be a few people that really like this out there um it's because it's
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got I think it's got quite a few little options but you've got to be prepared that if someone takes a long time on
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their turns they going to get sort of bogged down in some of the detail yeah
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sounds cool I quite like some of his games I've only really played Babylonia
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um yeah that's the only one that kind of Springs to mind from RNE Kia I've not really played any of this so I have to
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i' have to play more yeah I'd only sort of played or watched a lot of his auction games so i' kind of written him
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off a bit as a designer of one because I don't really like that's that in a game or certainly the way he he he applies
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them to games I know he's very popular so it's just a my taste rather than anything being broken I mean if you
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don't like one of his games he's probably got another 19,000 I like but a lot of them have kind of key things
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they've got in them I know they're not all because he's got that many games but a lot of them he seems to go through a run of doing this kind of game and then
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and it seems like he's on a bit of a a sort of a hex placement um game although
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The Iliad which is on kickstar at the moment is a looks like a battler with just Square big trumpy Square pieces um
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and I'm sure that's his that's on Kickstarter at the moment but yeah no toly enjoyed it was glad that my friend bought their copy round um cuz they're
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in the kickstarter phase you know that thing where you back everything oh yeah I remember that one yeah so that's not
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just like a 2022 phase where people are just you know backing everything that comes up because they can't leave the house I think that's that's when JP had
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his phase I had my phase a lot but and as I had that F I think most a lot of people in the board game hobby will have
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had that phase where they just back everything and I think they're still sort of middle maybe they might have
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reached the peak and kind of coming down the other side of it but that still means got two years probably of board games turning up that they've
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kickstarted one a week or whatever it is they're kickstarting at moment it's called Kickstarter Christmas with okay
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and uh yeah it's you can kind of reap the benefits of your Madness from about two years ago and they'll just like
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every month dropping through the door it's this is great but yeah at some point you've just got to stop doing it
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because it's cost a fortune yeah they all come at once you go oh look that's a big that's a big
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that's that's an expensive month yeah whoops there we go what about you Chris well me
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um it was a little while ago now probably probably about three weeks or so um because I've been just busy with trying to do loads of house doing the
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house up and stuff but um Tambo invited me and my brother to play uh Marvel Zombies for the first time um I say I've
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never played it before it's the premise of zombie side but flipped so you've got obviously you play as the zombies and
Chris - Marvel Zombies
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you're attacking humans um but you play as the superheroes so you got like zombified like Deadpool wasp Iron Man
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Hulk Etc um and you just go around you get various objectives you need to do
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defeat X number of Heroes like Doctor Strange or Spider-Man will come swinging in kind of thing and you have to defeat
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those um knock out a couple of like civilians as well and then make your way to an escape and then that's that's it
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um so I don't know how much um the game has been explained before I know Tam's probably mentioned it before because it was his copy anyway and he's um he he he
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loves he plays it quite quite frequently with his family um but yeah what so you can use obviously all the main Heroes
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sort of abilities um like range attacks and stuff like that um once you've done through attacks and things eventually
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you start getting hungry to the point where you need to start eating people as well um if you don't eat people
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eventually you become what's class is ravenous um where you can only move and eat you can't do any of your actual
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special abilities that make you good um the the eating sort of action is one of
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the weakest sort of attacks that you can do and you can normally only do it against sort of B rubber she sort of units kind of thing
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um so that it becomes difficult if you don't do that then you take damage and eventually you die there's no way of actually healing yourself in that game
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so you've got like six health and once that's it you're right that's gone um so it's quite cool um I think we played it
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in one evening we played it three times the same level three times because someone me did something stupid like
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left my hero on uh on like a spawn point and then the enemies activated twice so they activated and spawned and then and
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I died classic zombie side I was about to say that that sounds like zomb side I remember yet so then I was like okay
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well we're just seeing as we were only about four turns in let's just wipe and just start again and then oh do you want
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to swap Heroes oh maybe I'll play Iron Man okay I'll swap swap some Heroes around and play again and then I did something stupid again and like this is
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a running theme Here Yeah like Third Time Lucky eventually we actually did it so it was really good um got to the
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point where I I enjoyed it so much that for the last few weeks since playing it I have been looking to buy it and
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yesterday it came up on zatu for about 40 quid and I thought really I'll do 60%
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off from like 100 quid I was like thank you very much I'll take it nice like 100 OD minis for 40 quid bargain bargain
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I'll take it thank you very much yeah no well please good purchas should be arriving tomorrow nice so is it does it
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feel different to like standard zombie side like is it kind of still feel zombie side it still feels very zombie
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side it is just there's just so it gets to the point where where there's so many things on the board where you're just going to go right I need to go in This
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One Direction because I've got a horde chasing me kind of thing and you just have to sort go for it uh Your Heroes
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don't feel at all overpowered you are very much on the weaker end of things I don't know how much of a difference that
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is to the original zombie side obviously there's you they are quite weak obviously your actual main players that
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you that you that you actually have um so it's I think it's it mirrors it quite nicely but it is obviously just a
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reverse complete actual reverse of it where you play as the bad people rather than the good people I think I think my experiences on Bes side when I when I
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was kind of into it was you start off weak as piss and then obviously you start mowing a few people down and start
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unlocking some of those abilities getting some better loot minigun shows up or whatever and then suddenly you're
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just just badass like you probably get to a point where you're probably a bit too powerful and you're just literally
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mowing things down um so is there a similar kind of leveling mechanic in
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Marvel Zombies then where cuz I think I can't remember it's been such a long time you have like a a yellow orange and
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red zone blue yellow orange red and when you kind of cross those the more people you you kill or maybe this one is it you
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eat or something you uh you just get better yeah it's it's it's kills or eating they same they'll still get you
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they still get you XP kind of thing and yeah obviously once one player reaches the threshold of like they've gone from
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yellow to Yellow to Orange the the the rest of the game steps up quite quickly um so if someone hasn't leveled up their
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Heroes and got a got some good abilities they can be on the back foot a little bit quite quickly yeah when you got one
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player in the orange and everyone else is in the blue yes and you're like we go this game's over now right you're very
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strong and powerful I am very weak and Bey help me please and do the do the hero like the true heroes do they act
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like the Abominations then are they that kind of similar um big unit that is going to cause Havoc but I'm assuming
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they're a bit asymmetrical so if Spider-Man's coming in who's not zombified cuz you're the zombified dudes
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right then and he's going to act differently to insert Another Hero here I can't remember which one you said Yeah
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there so when we were playing it Doctor Strange was the sort of main guy but he was mainly acting more of a spawn point
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you know where he does the whole sort of spin ring making portals so he was bringing he having him alive was causing
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more enemies to spawn per turn Okay um so you take him out as quickly as you can really just to yeah limit the number
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of spawning and then it was just like events come through like oh you've just gone over here or someone's reached a a
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level cap an event suddenly happened oh look now Spider-Man's turned up and he will join a certain wave of enemies when
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they come in um I think we also had Miss Marvel popped in at some point and she had obviously like ranged this kind of
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thing been stretchy um and yeah so it worked really nicely I think um yeah it
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was very enjoyable I liked it and with that out of the way we can now move on to our main turn
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[Music]
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okay so today's uh topic of discussion is does size matter in board games in
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board games people that is bait yeah o so do big games provide bragging
TURN 3 - Main Event: Does size matter...in board games?
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rights levels of enjoyment or do they make you wish you knew they knew how to use their tools better do small games
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hit the spot or leave you wanting more first things first I think we should probably obvious yeah okay thr it enough
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yeah so first first I think we should establish what makes a game big or small is it the trousers that you wear or the
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thing you put on it it's a great question because I was thinking about this what makes a big game a big game is
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it the feeling you get was it physical size that it sits on the Shelf you know because you can have big games
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physically that don't pack a punch right yeah exact small games that really do
What makes a game big or small?
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Pack-a-Punch for what what you get in there so yeah I'm not I'm not going to come with an answer on this cuz I think
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the answer is it depends yeah exactly so yeah it's just more of a try to try to
26:34
gauge sort of where we sitting on what what's big what's small are we talking content makes big um amount of stuff
26:42
that you get with the game big how big is it when you put it on the table does it take up more than half the size of
26:48
the table that makes it big kind of thing or vice versa small stuff is it something that you can just have sitting
26:53
in front of you and you alone does that make a game small or if you've obviously got more than one person two or three
27:00
people having the same sort of level size board in front of them does that make the game small um so yeah that's
27:06
kind of where we're going to to start with my my feeling on that I suppose my
27:12
maybe my answer on this is if at any point I'm I'm setting up the board game and I have to think where do I put this
27:19
sort of thing of that's a good call yeah exactly trying not to make it sexual at the same time but liar if
27:26
you if you sort of go to put down not necessar a player board but maybe there's like a second side board like
27:31
the score board or something like that and you're like where okay maybe I move the main board over this way if I have
27:37
to do that normally I'm starting to think that this board game is a little bit of a table hog and a little bit sort of of a big game regardless of you know
27:45
regardless of whether it's like a complicated game or whatever it is or big Miniatures or or just very nice
27:51
components all of that kind of stuff I think can add to that feel but normally if I'm setting up and I'm like need to
27:56
either get the table extended if you got the dining room table that has a middle that you like open up and put the table
28:02
extender in the middle or if it's just a game where you're just like I need to figure out where to put this do I get like a little sideboard table when side
28:08
tables come out you know all of those kind of things make me think ah this is turning into like this is a big a big
28:14
game yeah I mean what's just sprung to my mind when you was talking there is games that are event games so your
28:22
Twilight Imperium Your Game of Thrones you know obviously they're big in the fact that they take a long time to to
28:27
get through and I'm saying that's bad thing it's not I like it um just not
28:32
campaigns no no just not campaigns I don't mind it in one shots um or even
28:37
two or maybe three shots but any more than that I'll start to lose interest as we know don't don't make me ran again no
28:44
um but yeah I think you know and I think like the Twilight Imperium where you've got six plus players and you are getting
28:51
you have to get side tables up you have to there's no nowhere for this stuff to fit that you have to take a break yeah
28:56
and you need like a you know a good Sunday roast in the middle just to get through it you know um so that's kind of
29:02
what I feel as well is a big game um yeah yeah so my my initial thought I had
29:08
two initial thoughts I'll talk about the other one in a second but my big my initial thought of when I was looking at the Shelf was warum yes cuz waram
29:14
doesn't fit on most common dining room tables it will fit but the board will
29:20
lap because it's a circular board it will come off the edge just Peaks off the edge and that's just the main board
29:26
then you need all your personal like um panels that tell you which countries you
29:32
own cuz it's World War II then you need a battle board then quite often really what you
29:38
need is a second room that has the reference chart on it so that one cuz you you determine Sim simultaneously
29:45
what everyone's doing but you need to have the chat about what the Allies doing what the axis doing so really you need a second room for everyone to go in
29:53
with a small table on it so that while the axis are looking at the big board and all that you can at least go off and have a bit of a conversation cuz the
29:59
Allies can't be in the same room at the same time as the axis and vice versa while they're deciding that all right okay that's I've never heard of that
30:05
concept that's cool so which was the same in accent allies really like you kind of had to have a bit of discussion time but because it wasn't all
30:11
simultaneous actions you could come up with you kind of just have a bit of a whispered conversation in the corner
30:16
whereas war room because everything's happening at once you need to be super planned up you need to be there with your little like sort of whiteboard
30:23
little whiteboards that you put all your orders on so yes so not only do you have a main dining room table which that's
30:30
not even the jumbo version you can buy a jumbo version where you have the little unit pushers as JP
30:36
little I love a unit Pusher and then and then you have to have a place for all of
30:41
your country specific stuff then you have to have a place for the battle boards where you roll all your dice and you put all the units on when they're in
30:47
a battle and then you have to have a second room like that's a big game that's I would class that as a big game
30:54
yeah definitely yeah so that was the first one I thought of the second second one I thought of was
31:00
Bandido as a big game oh because it sprawls yeah it's massive you couldn't take that to a convention without
31:07
probably running off a table cuz convention tables are quite thin thin and long compared to dining room
31:12
tables so yeah so con tables are kind of they're thin aren't they whereas dining room tables are are wider and the number
31:18
of times on a full-size dining room table we've had to pull the whole we'll move it all this way a bit we'll move the whole network of of these tunnels
31:26
that you're laying out in cards over to one side so we can keep tunneling out in that direction the number of times I've
31:33
done that and yet it comes in a a box that's like yeah tiny it's I'm trying to
31:39
think like a sabat box yeah like a couple of packets of cigarettes stacked on top of each other Cano size box tiny
31:46
little box but because it's so sprawling as a game yeah goes on quite regular
31:51
especially when you first play it like as you get as you get more Adept at playing the game you kind of condense a
31:57
little bit but the first few times we played it I was I had like a nepr mat and I was pulling one side of the nepr
32:02
mat off the table just to move everything towards me so we could keep going with building the tunnels weird
32:08
though cuz that that one doesn't for Meister as a big game it doesn't feel
32:13
like a big game does it no but it is a big game you need a big you couldn't if someone said you know oh I'm going
32:20
camping you could say it's a small box yeah and maybe you ain't you ain't doing that anywh are you yeah you you You'
32:25
have to crawl across the ground kind of putting all tiles on uneven tent floor it take up it could take up the whole
32:32
tent floor if you've got like a little Twan tent sort of thing goes outside concrete though wouldn't it for it to be
32:37
level that's to be fair all those cards all wangling around so it's yeah so it is a big if you're talking about
32:44
footprint it is a big game because it takes up so much space despite the fact that it's a little game that doesn't
32:49
feel big it doesn't feel epic it just takes up table space so if someone said to me what's a big game footprint wise
32:56
that's one of the first ones I thought of I think the other things like are big games terms of weight and also
33:06
box sizes just spring to mind so you know the Mind clash games nowadays the
33:11
big ones they're they're big chunky boxes that take up half a Galax yeah
33:17
right so they they they feel big CU they are big they're freaking heavy they you
33:23
know the transport around and they feel like and you get that feeling from me as well was a big experience um and then
33:30
usually by the end of the night you're like tired I to have a cigarette uh keeping the theme guys I'm keeping
33:38
the theme yeah um so yeah we had a good time yeah oh yeah absolutely had a good time need to put my feet up you know
33:44
toes up and all that uh but yeah they those feel for me they're like big games
33:50
you know they're also probably big cuz they're popular as well they're kind of famous for being big you know certain
33:57
games are they kind of expected to be big so that's what we do you know so fact that mind Clash comes out with we
34:04
got a teeny tiny small box game it's weird doesn't feel right because it's not on usually their brand right so I
34:10
think that has a lot to to play with as well certain Publishers will lean into it hard because they know that a lot of
34:15
the gamers and their fans will expect big box experience or big game experiences but again not like one's
34:23
right or wrong it's just what they find popular in it yeah one of the ones I've just thought about which which is kind of the latest hotness that's running
34:29
through our group is Primal because you talked about CX cubes it doesn't fit inside a calx cube which is really
34:35
annoying what yeah oh yeah you I just yeah just tweaked with me yeah you just youve just got that as well haven't you
34:41
it's about 3 in too wide for calx cube you can't get it in so you can't you can't put it in a calx cube it doesn't
34:47
fit that's it all right throw it away so sell it to Rob sell it to Rob yeah he' love that I think it be around in 10
34:54
seconds sorry did someone say something there is a sign up now for game coming out I saw you message
35:00
earlier yeah so there is so he should be happy hopefully with that I'm trying to rather than trying to pinch my copy it's to BU your own you booger yeah um leaf
35:08
on the table really the board itself is only the size of a regular sized board
35:14
and your little player board is smaller than most player boards in games but because of all the Miniatures like the
35:20
box if I put if you look at it on the side it's massive because a it doesn't fit in the C so it's sitting on top of
35:25
the smaller Cal I've got um so it looks impressive big white box but when you put it out on the table it looks it
35:32
feels epic because You' got a big monster in the middle and these big sort of animesque sort of Monster Hunter
35:38
characters on the board so it feels like and it looks epic but it doesn't it's not big doesn't take up footprint space
35:45
and I found that quite almost jarring because as you say kind of if you see a big box you expect a big game to come out of it and it was like and I knew
35:51
this cuz I backed it and when I backed it I knew that it was a small footprint but it is that it's a small footprint game inside of very big box M so it's
35:58
kind of the opposite of Bandido it is no yeah I thought the exactly the same thing when I played it with obviously
36:04
with Davey and Rob um is Lally there he obviously Davey it's decided that he didn't want to just pack it away nicely
36:11
it's everywhere it's there's like seven boxes scattered around this this office
36:18
that he's got and it's everywhere and he goes I'm just going to go to find this thing and then he disappears for like 5 minutes and comes back up I found the
36:23
thing that I was after it was the the forge well the next fire Forge or what that was that was after and you go okay
36:28
well we need the wind one do you want to go look again and he goes all right okay we're going then off he goes again
36:34
there's a lot there but as you say it's for for space on the table it it fits really nicely but there's just a lot of
36:42
boxes right then okay so that's that was quite a few examples of some big games
36:48
that take up a lot of space either as you say footprint or storage wise or from your wallet or your wallet yeah
36:54
geez U what about an example of a small game yeah something that takes up very
37:00
little space what is it a small box or a really big box that's literally nothing yeah well I don't know if this
Exploring the smaller games
37:07
kind of fits but a small box game that packs a punch is far away from me and I've not
37:15
heard of I've not heard of it's a game I wouldn't expect Adrian was talking about this thing since Essen going on about
37:22
right agent calm down he even queed miss piz early to get I was right again he was right in this case um because you
37:30
look at it and you just go n like for me like cuz of my style of game and my play of game um yeah my kind of choice is is
37:37
usually the bigger stuff right so naturally I'm not that interested in smaller box games I don't really scratch
37:44
the niche for me so I ended up getting a copy bought for my birthday and here you
37:49
go it's far away and I was like oh cool I'll get to play it thinking I'll probably play it once or twice and you
37:55
know is what it is and it'll probably go into my CA draw of many small boox games and they'll get willed out you know with
38:01
family and stuff so it's always useful to have a bunch of them and then we played it and my brain melted right
38:07
literally just melted like what the hell is this game and it's not it's not
38:13
complicated but what your first play of it is like I have no idea how this works and then until you play your first game
38:18
you go ah and it's because of the scoring and then it's the way you play cards from left to right you score them
38:24
from right to left and you got to sequence things in the right way for you to do well and yeah it's just a fun for
38:32
what it is it doesn't the footprint is really not that big you know it's eight cards that are square in your little
38:39
area plus the the shrines yeah and the shrine cards that you you kind of get but also the the cards you draft in the
38:45
middle which is only temporarily and then you taking them off that's it and uh yeah for for a small box game gives
38:52
you kind of a big kind of bigger game feel um so that's quite I like it and to
38:59
be fair cuz I know why you guys didn't immediately like be like oh because it looks like a quirky small box kind of maybe French or
39:07
maybe sort of Spanish kind of and I'm like I don't know if I can put this in front of my family no I
39:13
probably would good it it melted your brain God God save them yeah it's about so the the core concept is the fact that
39:20
really what you want is you want to get all the good shr to get shrines which you have to have you want the smallest
39:25
number on the left and the biggest number on the right and that's the order you want to follow but all the cards that you want to score the latest I.E
39:32
furthest to the left have the highest numbers on them from so from an end of game scoring point of view you want the largest numbers on the left and the
39:38
smallest numbers on the right so you have to decide where to break it and change where your numbers are going to
39:45
kind of come in and and that's the real basic puzzle of it that's what I tell everyone that when I'm teaching it now it seems to help them with it the one
39:51
that comes to me as a a smaller box game with a lot in it is probably the one
39:57
that I think far away is slowly displacing which is furnace yeah you're right cuz furnace is very similar feels
40:05
I think to far away with the having the order of things and if you don't do your auction bits in the right order when you
40:11
get compensation which is what happens if you lose if you haven't got the stuff you need which sometimes you won't have
40:17
because you've won the card instead of getting the compensation or whatever that you've then mucked up your order
40:23
and you've then kind of mucked up your your turn really and F F does that it's a smallish box game it's kind of that
40:30
like the original carason box Baron Park furnace that kind of small middle sized
40:36
kind of Sentry and all that kind of stuff that size but inside it really is a is a game that I think is it's not
40:44
heavyweight but it feels closer to like mid heavyweight um in in feel and in
40:49
look to be fair I've bought the ne mat which i' very rarely do normally and slowly I'm buying more and more near P
40:55
mats so that's my changing Behavior but um with the mat out and then this sort of your run of cards it doesn't take up
41:02
a lot of table space but it feels bigger than it is it feels like a crunchy game
41:07
for that little box size so if we're talking about that kind of feel I think that's I think that's my one but I also
41:13
think it has a lot in common with the with the style of game that is furnace and far away I feel like they've got a
41:18
lot of overlap in how they feel not mechanically not graphically nothing like that just how they feel a crunchy
41:25
experience for what you get as very setup you know you're you're playing within minutes and the game doesn't take
41:32
an age it's done in under an hour you know and you've had you feel like that was a good good experience that was a
41:37
good play yeah I think I've I think I've played it I just wanted to double check so furnace is is it like the 18th or
41:43
19th century one where you were building um like factories or is that I think
41:49
there another G called Iron Works might have been very similar yeah it's not I don't know it's factories it is kind of
41:55
that um sort of age of steam Revolution yes I fairly certain I have played it
42:02
but yeah yeah that's what I thinking when you say cards and you can flip them to get the upgrades and yeah that's it
42:07
so you get you get a one disc a two disc a three disc or four disc and you're putting them on the cards in the middle
42:12
definit that's the one I played then yeah that's fine yeah that was good if you get the highest you win the card if you get lower you get compensation but
42:19
you work left to right so sometimes I've gone in with a three dis thinking I'm winning this and you'll no one will go
42:25
for it or someone will put a four in and then you're getting compensation or sometimes you'll put a three in thinking
42:30
you want the compensation no what like someone's going to want this card I'm going to get three of the compensation
42:36
and then no one goes for it and you're stuck with a card and then the next one you wanted compensation for you now
42:42
don't have what required and it that's that far away feel I think your chain breaks yeah it just break and you're
42:47
like a and yeah so yeah that's that's furnace yeah when I played that it was very much I was I was always betting on
42:53
the thing that I wanted and then never winning it yeah it happens a lot happens a lot more than I think people are going to think or I go oh no one wants no
42:59
one's going to no one really going after anyway I'll go for it and then there's a reason why yeah I'm thinking of the
43:05
smallest game that I own I'm thinking that whilst you're talking what is the smallest game that I own and I think it
43:12
might be here ey the jewel which I mentioned on the Expo episode it literally comes in a cloth pouch it has
43:20
about 13 cards in it that's it with our theme I don't think you want to be
43:25
talking about coming in a cloth pouch I'm allowed to if I want to long as he fits in it it's fine yeah 13 cards this
43:32
game I think I mean don't quote me on that people but it doesn't have a lot and uh yeah the card stock is that kind
43:38
of plasticky feel as well so this thing's going to last an age and for those that don't know what it is very
43:44
quickly it's just the jeweling samurai card game it plays in 5 minutes and you're done and me and my son play it a
43:51
lot he's just too good at it he wipes the floor with me every time um and he
43:56
kind of like two lives basically you get hit once out you're nearly dead you get hit again you're dead and you're kind of
44:03
moving back and forth on this battlefield which is like a 2d Battlefield bit like Samurai Showdown in
44:08
that that respect whoever played that game less complicated because you're just playing cards but yeah you switch stances you're going for you know
44:15
certain attacks that you have to be one away or two away and you're moving forward and back and you know it's all that kind of bit of programming but
44:22
smallest game I am I think that is the one that literally setup is seconds your
44:28
play is five minutes done put your pouch away I think the smallest game I own is
44:35
uh it's probably cluster yes it's just a bag with some magnets in it l all is it comes in a box don't need the Box don't
44:42
need the box it's just a bag the bag with some with some with some magnets in it so that that works a treat yeah if I
44:47
remember correctly looks dodgy when it's going through airport security if stacked oh if yes yes yes look like you
44:54
keeping on theme looks like a sex toy cuz that was what Becky had wasn't it where they made her open her suitcase
44:59
cuz she had cluster yeah in her suitcase the thing is he showed us the the X-ray
45:04
picture and everyone like she was thinking she was stopped because it looked like a sex toy I thought it looked like a gun because I could
45:10
literally see the trigger and I think that might have been something else just looked like a gun just the way it was
45:15
lay out you like Becky what have you got in your back Jesus my mind didn't go down the perver smutty route which is
45:20
unusual for me but yeah I was like oh my God it's a gun it's like what no no it's a dildo
45:28
it's it's not as magnets yes for the magnets my my thought of what my smallest one would be was originally
45:34
Viking seesaw yeah because it's kind of that that Pickup Sticks sort of maybe or
45:40
like a box of dominoes it's kind of that size is is it bit smaller than that in fact and again that is a very small
45:45
field game it's a tiny little te totter with different weighted pieces that you're putting on it but then I realized
45:50
I've got about five button shy games and there you go they are definitely smaller so so kind of like is it kirai your
45:57
Samurai game it's 12 or 14 cards inside
46:02
and this is probably a UK reference inside a bus pass right yes you know the little
46:08
plastic W you got when you yeah again I'm live grew up in sort of London area
46:13
so oyster cards used to always come in these little plastic wallets and that's what it comes in is one of these little plastic wallets with a bunch of cards in
46:20
and they are all medium to medium well light to medium light feel games tussy musy and
46:28
ballop the two I can think off the top of my head circle the wagons they don't they're not very heavy games they don't
46:33
really necessarily have a lot to them but when you can put six or seven in your pocket if you particular like
46:40
setting in a coat pocket or something like quite happily and you could play six or seven game very quick games in a day or whatever in a in in an afternoon
46:48
that's fine for me but it is that they are very small um small games with a small feel as well I'm going to throw
46:56
some little spanner in the works where does gloom Haven button and bugs land then if you've heard about
47:03
this yeah so it's obviously the super miniaturized you can like play it on you
47:09
can play it on like a plane table can't you like a airplane when they fall down in front of you that little that size
47:14
table uh the dungeon map is a car I've never played it so I can only go on speculation but if it's anything to do
47:20
with anything like the actual proper Bloom Haven it's probably a mid it's
47:26
probably Gloom Haven it's even though while it takes up a lot of space it's not I
47:31
wouldn't really class it's a big game would you not not really depends on your
47:36
definition the majority of the scenarios are reasonably small or the tiles when
47:42
you connect them all together and it all fits quite nicely it all fits sort of in the middle of a table rather than doesn't really overflow doesn't push
47:48
back game's not particularly overly complex um and that's obviously but you
47:54
do get a lot with it so if you're talking about you know literal size of box it's a big game if you're talking
48:01
about the mass stuff that you get with it it's a big game but complexity wise and how it lays out on the table I think
48:06
it's more of a mid it's it's sort of middle yeah I mean footprint is not too bad yeah you're right and buns are bugs
48:13
his footprint is TE it's just just yeah so it's it's probably yeah if you if you
48:18
sort of flip the aspects around it's very small but there's probably a fair amount going on there but again I've
48:23
never played it so I can't actually put in some sort of um Val opinion I'm just going on based of that it's Gloom Haven
48:29
so it's probably got something pretty nice in it that's the thing you when you look big versus small it really just depends on the definition isn't it so
48:37
box size footprint so have you guys have you guys seen terrascape heard of Terror Escape I've
48:43
seen it the new I'm pretty sure that's what it's called it's I saw it at the 12h hour event when the first
48:48
Kickstarter landed and it's like a horror I think you're try one side's trying to escape and the other side's
48:54
trying to hunt and all that lot but it's got like a big Manor oh yes I have seen like in the middle like a 3D Mana that
When smaller footprints can feel like a big experience
49:01
there and sounds cool and it stops you seeing the other side of the board and people put their cards and that on top
49:07
so they can see what you're doing and stuff like that and it looks immense but when I went they were playing it on the
49:13
smallest table because really I say the smallest table but because there wasn't everything's built into this kind of one
49:19
board in the middle that's just got this massive Mana looking thing in the middle of it it footprint looked weirdly small
49:27
but its table presence was so much bigger because of this kind of divider
49:33
in the middle yeah um and it it caught my eye there and then when I saw there was a second printing I'll be honest
49:38
I've been doing a bit more research on it and I'm trying not to be tempted to get it because I don't know how much it is for me but the table presence on it
49:44
is amazing um but again footprint like it's not the smallest footprint but
49:50
relatively it's a small footprint for how big it looks yeah so yeah it just I
49:55
didn't know whether you guys kind of clocked it or not because now you said what it like explained it i' have seen
50:00
many pictures of this thing never looked at it and it just I think it does that thing it's a bit like like The Descent
50:07
3D version of it is the footprint isn't necessarily the biggest sometimes it is but quite often it's not NE it's just
50:13
the fact that because it's tall because you build up the levels for descent in the Third Edition it height the table
50:19
presence no is very very often you you get off the table as in flatness you go
50:24
up so and that was that was when we talk when we first talked about this thing I was like I wonder like it'd
50:29
be cool to talk about that because so few board games do it where it adds height to add table presentence and and
50:36
God forbid I'm going to talk about everel and the stupid tree but I think yeah that's pointless aart from the fact
50:43
that it gives the game table presence because that tree is not needed the footprint size is medium everything else
50:50
in it is kind of that Medium Euro game and then they stuck this stupid great tree distract him distract him quick
50:56
but it gives you table presence right it gives you that that elevation that makes the game look bigger and more epic than
51:02
actually it really is and it's the same with I've got a funny feeling that's the same with tercape as well is I think it
51:07
I think if it looked less off the table you wouldn't have got so much so many
51:13
people kind of looking at it but that kind of produces a bit hype because people I did it I W past this table at
51:19
12 hour event and went what the hell is that like I haven't seen anything like it before and
51:25
they're like oh it's a Kickstarter that's just come out and you it's like a horror like running away in a mansion or
51:30
something along those lines I like that looks awesome don't know if it's for me but it does look really good yeah I
51:36
think the same sort of feeling as Apex Legends where you've literally got 3D
51:42
terrain with buildings on buildings on buildings so you've got that verticality in in the Tactical shooter and I don't
51:50
think I mean if you had the same game and it was all flat it it would functionally work the same like
51:55
literally of course it would it's literally squares yeah but because you have literally the the height you can
52:01
feel like you're tucked into a corner you can feel like you're you're moving around I really want to play this game on a big massive Lazy Susan so that you
52:08
can literally just just spin it around spin it around and have a look at all the Angles and just figure it out and
52:14
yeah see can I see you kind I going I peek around the corner I don't think you need to but it's uh yeah I think that
52:20
that feeling of big cuz it looks big it looks tall you know yeah say it would
52:27
have the same it wouldn't have the obviously not going to have the same type of presence no on on the table but
52:32
if it was just flat and you've got lines indicating where a building is ETC you'd be like instead of as you say spinning
52:38
it around and actually trying to look at the angles you just be going I just need a ruler and I can I see you yes I can
52:44
perfect there we go so no yeah I get what you mean yeah it's it's weird cuz I put Apex in a closer to tabletop
52:51
wargaming where I'm used to seeing all these buildings and that off the table and kind of the 3D
52:57
it it's not kind of is closer to a board game than it
53:03
is tabletop miniature game but my brain always puts it in that classification and a complete tangent
53:11
but a lot of War games have been trying to take the 3D nature out of it because of the line of sight problems because
53:17
you can do easier line of sight if everything is a flat 2D plane with just simple this is blocking so if you can't
53:23
see through this bit of neoprene mat ever so it's weird that it feels like board games are trying to make things
53:30
more 3D than the last couple of years and yet war games have been for the most part actively trying to reduce how much
53:36
3D terrain you put on the board and how many layers you have because it makes line of sight which is notoriously a
53:42
sticky point in war in tabletop wargaming it reduces the problems with that yeah um but yeah that's what when
53:48
you said Apex I was like I hadn't even thought of it because in my head I've I've put it into kind of not even the same camp but is it's I've put it into
53:55
kind of skirmish war game rather into tabletop game one of the other things I
54:00
wanted to bring up would be to if you games you've got that are big could
54:06
you make them smaller are there things in the game that are unnecessary that
54:12
bulk it out make it more of a problem add in stuff that is that you say are
What about games that have bloat or take a while to play
54:18
unnecessary there are games that I would like to be smaller I don't know how I would do it though eclipse is one right
54:26
four player Eclipse fine right any higher than that doesn't matter how big
54:32
that freaking table is the side tables out or you're perching uh the you know
54:38
the tech tray on the side of the table and some bucker is going to knock it off you know you never to Adrian's point
54:45
where I'm going to put this board in now crap where does this go and where does that go and you start running out of space so that's one I'd like to condense
54:53
that somehow and I think most forex's fall into that Camp the more plays you have is just player boards are massive
55:00
where does everything go how we fit in you know this thing onto the table and then that footprint just sprawls even
55:07
even worse um yeah I haven't got an answer no I I I was thinking about
55:14
trying to put together the episode I was thinking the exactly the same thing um one of the things I thought of was play
55:19
time how long it takes to play a game one of the games that immediately came up to me is something that's very near
55:25
and dear to a lot of people's heart Parts in this room well I know at least one person's near this in this this room
55:30
is JP it's too many bones I've played that game three times
55:36
I've loved it so much but why does it take so long to play yeah you're right
55:41
it's even we've doing three player games or four player games it take every time we took it it took four five hours to
55:49
play and it's there's not that much going on particularly really hate to
55:55
just make people upset there's not really that much going on with it it's like oh I'm doing a bit of a scenario
56:00
there's some enemies to fight why is this taking me 5 hours to play is there any way that I can somehow reduce this
56:06
time cuz if you if I can knock it down to yeah that's probably true actually but if you could knock it down to a three hour yeah I think that would be
56:13
for me that's perfect I don't really want to spend more than three hours playing a game I mean jokes
56:19
aside this is one of the reasons why I don't play it on a week night yeah right and you might go JP you've nearly played
56:25
this game like 85 five times I have but I don't I don't play on a week night
56:31
because of that reason it goes on it drags on I don't say drags I like it so it doesn't matter I'm I'm not just
56:37
seeing it in that fan I love it it's fantastic midnight or half one sometimes and you got I've got work the next day I
56:43
agree I completely agree I think too many bones is longer than it needs to be
56:50
and you how could you fix that well you fix that by playing with less players obviously um cuz actually two player I
56:57
still don't think you get two players done in under three hours no again depending on which Tyrant you're going
57:03
up against if you're going up against the shorter one that's possible but sometimes you want that like bigger
57:08
experience you want to kind of build your character up you don't want to feel like you're short changed on on leveling up your character and you're like oh
57:13
we're at the boss now and you're like I'm kind of 25% of the way there I wanted to be at least 75 to have more
57:19
options you know but yeah you're right I don't know if it's because of just the scenario that the scenario that
57:25
we played or whatever it is every time we did it that or there was a lot of combat cuz obviously combat takes a big
57:31
chunk like 45 minutes a fight kind of thing you could be facing sort of three enemies but like big big enemies and you
57:37
can knock them out pretty swiftly you're facing a lot of little enemies you can stack the deck a little bit so there's
57:43
there something just popped into my brain like because I own everything there's a bad thing about owning pretty
57:48
much everything which is the amount of scenarios I've got I don't know how many loads so you Shuffle that big deck of
57:55
scenario and if all of them are battle scenarios it's going to take a long time if all of
58:01
them are passive scenarios i. you do a little mini game where you flicking some dice across and it's done in 5 minutes
58:07
then you're probably going to be done in like an hour yeah so I think it's maybe like separating those into two decks and
58:14
going right we're going to go for half and half 50/50 Shuffle each and then shuffle them together you know draw four
58:20
whatever from each and do it that way so you know that you're going to get four battles and you're going to get four
58:26
passives no that's good and then that will shorten the play time massively because it's the battles is where the time goes and it's the CU it's
58:34
cooperative and you're trying to talk to each other and right and it gets a bit crunchy in your brain on how you're
58:39
going to figure the puzzle out what's what's presented then yeah I think that that could be i' never never even
58:44
considered it but now I'm actually like why not why not do that because I'm still playing bones and I actually quite
58:50
like the passives and I think the last probably five games I've had you're right there haven't been that many that
58:56
I've been shuffled in so that's what I'm going to do yeah brilliant there you go
59:01
I'm glad I could help in some way shapeable form yeah let's play it okay put it in the diary let's go
59:07
on so we've talked about table footprint and you've talked about time when you
59:13
asked this question my thought went to production because and here's the hypocrite in me right because I do like
59:20
games with Miniatures in I've just back primed with massive monsters in and all this kind of stuff but for the most part when I look at a lot of games I think
59:26
that's over produced yeah and so it comes down to probably more box size but
Product factoring in the size of the game
59:31
just general cost and stuff like that where I think it's too big so haven't played it but foundations of Rome oh
59:38
yeah right massive because there's all these chunky buildings in there and I would love for them to do a little
59:44
version flat tiles it's just flat tiles like cardboard tiles I would love to be honest with you what i' love from Primal
59:51
is to do cardboard standies as an option so you've got big Miniatures as an option and you've got cardboard standies
59:57
they did it with cthulu Wars so cthulu Wars has all these chunky great big cthulu things um Mr wibbles faor yeah in
1:00:06
big in big chunky things and then they produced The Jewel version with little cardboard standies and I think to myself
1:00:12
you could probably do that with the bigger version as well really and reduce the cost down but there are so many games that immediately came to my head
1:00:18
that I was like man I would love just this version less blinged up with less
1:00:24
Miniatures or less like Tonky like wooden or or plastic pieces in them that
1:00:32
again I think it would reduce the table presence it wouldn't necessarily reduce the footprint it wouldn't reduce the time it would reduce the cost the box
1:00:39
size but ultimately it also I think it would make less impact on a table or on
1:00:44
a Kickstarter or something like that but yeah they were all of the ones I thought of immediately I sort of was like oh
1:00:50
that and that and I realized they're all production downsizing rather than footprint or time or anything like
1:00:56
complexity I'm digging the acrylic SES you know I quite like the look of an acrylic stande and the fact it's all
1:01:03
color and it's vibrant it pops and you know it does the same thing as a cardboard one but you know it's going to last longer and you're not going to get
1:01:09
that bit with a cardboard standy where at the bottom because you keep taking them in and out in and out of the little
1:01:14
stand it's going to start fraying at the bottom and that does my head in the one the one thing you have to watch is if the acrylics too thin they start to curl
1:01:22
yeah which I don't like that I'd rather have the wooden ones that have worn out a little bit get minis but yeah oh screw
1:01:28
it let's just get get the biggest production we can but I do like some acrylic standies as well like if they're
1:01:33
in a chunky acrylic you write about foundations of Rome yeah like it weirdly
1:01:38
and I've got no basis for this I've got no grounds for this like you said being a hypocrite it pisses me off as a game
1:01:44
like because I'm like it it's massive and maybe if I play it I get it and go oh it's quite a grand experience of what
1:01:51
you get I know it's not a big game it's a medium to light game and it's that's that's and it's weird isn't it because
1:01:57
when you look at the games that have massive production you expect them to either be uh like a merit trash sort of
1:02:04
Storytelling games or you expect them to be these big heavy luras or mind clashes
1:02:10
or something like that you don't expect them to be like quadropolis style sort
1:02:17
of light medium medium weight games and it threw me completely when I was
1:02:22
looking through because I looked at a Kickstarter and it threw me completely when I was like wait hold on so this
1:02:28
isn't going to take me three hours to play and have a 15-page rule book sort of thing like oh okay that's weird but
1:02:34
yeah all of them whether they were whether they're big product whether they're sort of big Amit trashy style
1:02:39
games or whether they're kind of just yeah just sort of big production game they're always the ones that I think I'd
1:02:46
love to have just a very basic cheap cardboard version of that to to try
1:02:52
because quite of again we're quite fortunate we between our group and people we know there's plenty of people
1:02:58
out there who we can ask for a game of something if it's a bit sort grandio or expensive um but for the most part I
1:03:05
think a lot of people won't necessarily be in that position where they can they can go and buy 100 pound games and have
1:03:12
a 100 pound game on the table every week which we sometimes does happen we have quite a few weeks where there's at least
1:03:18
A1 pound of game on the table every single week um and we're quite fortunate of that but I'd love to see a smaller
1:03:24
production for space and cost I'm with you I think I've gone through that hump
1:03:29
and it might have been a Kickstarter thing where oh look at this bloody big box it's great look at it and now they
1:03:36
they're kind of just impractical and you know and I look in into into the cupboard over there and I'm going right
1:03:42
I've got an Acron the infinity box right I love that game but it's like it's a big box in it
1:03:48
and actually sometimes that becomes a bit of a barrier and you think yeah because it's like massive and sprawling
1:03:55
and you know um and I do think you know space on shelf is is a commodity and we
1:04:01
talked about that in previous episodes so I agree if we can kind of get games
1:04:07
back down to to that standard size a bit more uh whether it's crowdfunded or
1:04:13
whatever then touche like let's try and let's not make these things massive you
1:04:19
know let's try and get more out of it just make it an add-on or like an expansion that adds in a load of this
1:04:25
stuff like here's your basic version if you love it and lot of lots of Becky is our prime example in our podcast lots of
1:04:31
people if they find a game they really love will buy all of the unnecessary in
1:04:37
air quotes add-ons yeah to make the game look bigger than it is or more grandios
1:04:43
or whatever from the from the base game so I think there is a there's a model in the industry for it but I also
1:04:49
appreciate that most people if they see kickstarters they want the big box they want the all in experience all that kind
1:04:54
of stuff so I kind of understand why a lot of Publishers yeah are behaving the way they behave basically people buy
1:05:00
them so yeah why wouldn't you yeah it's just a lot of obviously window shopping for people and it oh that looks nice oh it's very big it's shiny there's loads
1:05:06
of stuff to it thank you very much I'll take it one big game that I would like to see smaller i' say I mentioned just a
1:05:13
second ago is Frost Haven obviously is the obviously the sort of follow one from Gloom Haven there is again so much
1:05:20
included with it so many bits and pieces tiles tokens B massive box massive map that takes an entire table when you fold
1:05:26
out Etc um but one thing I think you could probably do without would be the
1:05:32
entirety of the admin side about the town I don't think you need that at all
1:05:37
I don't think it brings anything to the game um and it adds about 45 minutes or
1:05:43
so onto the end of each time that you play it um because you got to go right now do I have the resources to do this
1:05:49
blah blah blah blah blah um whereas if you just take that out and just left it like it was originally I don't think it
1:05:56
changes the game I think it is still the same you still have you can still keep the crafting into to do weapons and
1:06:02
stuff like that and money to buy Stuff Etc but actually doing up the town and the events and stuff that you get from it are pretty NE negligible um I don't
1:06:11
think it brings much apart from just waste some time and makes everyone go after a long evening of playing you go
1:06:16
right now that you've had some fun let's go to let's get XL Spreadsheet out let's do some fun and that that's the real fun
1:06:22
of it so no I think you can take that out that's just one of the other things I just just wanted to mention that you could take away from something to make
1:06:28
it considerably smaller as well yeah that's fair cool no race and then we can move on to the would you
1:06:46
rather so now we can move on to um the would you rather question for this episode would you guys rather be
1:06:54
carrying your big game around with you once a month
TURN 4 - Would you rather...carry your biggest game around with you once a month or carry your smallest game everywhere you go?
1:06:59
or carry your smallest game around with you every day and have someone ask you why you're carrying
1:07:05
it this involves taking if it's the the big game for instance taking it everywhere you need to go shopping
1:07:11
you're taking that with you like say this is DAV at convention you need to go you need to go and visit your mom you're taking it with her you're taking it with
1:07:17
you anywhere that you go in any room that you're in you're taking the game with you to be in that room with you or
1:07:23
to going to the location with you one or the biggest one the biggest one the smallest one is always on your person cuz you can probably fit it in your
1:07:30
pocket but you're always get nagged every day someone has someone's going to be asking you why have you got that on
1:07:35
you yeah the smallest one cuz I'm proud nerd that I am I'm absolutely
1:07:43
fine and I have been for years and years lot long lot quicker than a lot of my friends I was quite happy to announce my
1:07:48
nerdiness to random people basically like if they're like you're a bit of a nerd no I'm a lot of a nerd don't worry about it big time yeah um so the idea of
1:07:56
carrying a button shy wallet on me at all times no that's completely fair
1:08:01
just about you go well it's this just a board game what if it's the same person
1:08:06
that asks you like they instantly forget like the yesterday they ask you so it's like the next day Adrian why have we got
1:08:13
why have we got a game on you're like for [ __ ] sake dude like you gone to the office that you're working and
1:08:19
someone and they keep repeating every day it's a button shy wallet so what I can do is I can keep in there a little
1:08:25
business card and you just sort of pass I can just hand to them like uh what was that what was that terrible Adam Sandler
1:08:32
Drew Barrymore 51st dat or whatever where she terrible car it wasn't that bad it wasn't that bad but it was not I
1:08:38
mean it wasn't great but it wasn't that bad where we kind of makes her a tape to watch first thing in the morning right
1:08:44
and I could just have printed a thousand business cards that I fit one inside the button shy wallet and then hand it
1:08:49
across to them every single day that's just like you ask me this every day this is a buttony wallet game it's a small
1:08:55
game that I carry everywhere just in case I fancy playing a game yeah thanks bye nice loophole nice that works a
1:09:03
treat what about you JP oh how big is the biggest game what's your biggest
1:09:09
game what's your what's your biggest game oh God the Trove chest yeah it's got be your biggest it's got be your
1:09:14
heaviest all of the all of the bones all of them yeah I mean it probably is and so in terms of density and
1:09:22
weight not Bard game weight just physical way yeah probably is just say
1:09:28
it is just a small one a once I don't even like moving that when I move house
1:09:34
they give me anxiety moving that Trove chest and even to the point where one of the trays in that Trove chest slightly
1:09:42
not bad slightly teared slightly and you went on a and I was like yeah gave me like real anxiety and
1:09:51
you know because obviously moving it I had to empty it cuz you can't move it full it's no ridiculous heavy um and you
1:09:58
know if that thing Falls over full it's just going to blow up it's going to basically explode it's prob like a a
1:10:04
bottle cap mine from Fallout chips everywhere chips just firing off in all
1:10:09
directions um so if that is the game I'm going to have to pick the small one and punch
1:10:15
people because I'm not doing it even once a month no not doing it I'm not even removing that out if it was one of
1:10:21
my other games slightly smaller and I just had to you you know take uh the the
1:10:27
anacron infinity box out for a walk once a month void fall or whatever yeah but trying to think which is bigger I think
1:10:34
the infinity box is bigger I think eclipse eclipse is smaller okay yeah so
1:10:41
I think but then you got like hopo victorum which is not high but it it doesn't fit in the ca it's wide and it's
1:10:48
it's quite heft no Cloud Spire is freaking heavy as well there's a few options but either way if it was
1:10:54
anything other than TR chest then and you have to carry it is that right bring it with you so you carry it
1:11:01
to where you go and then but it's it's with you it's not going to leave your side you know you're going shopping you put it in the shopping car the trolley
1:11:07
it's in the trolley with you you going then you put it back in the car then you go into your M and Dad's house you bring it with you put it in the house it's
1:11:13
it's in the same room as you it follows you Rusty wants a walk goes with you in the backpack Rusty does a turd got to
1:11:20
put it down on the floor and pick up his has it been raining
1:11:26
oh no no I'm just let you right out of that so of you yeah it was it was strangely like
1:11:33
we're just talking about Rusty I was like yeah if Rusty if Rusty goes number two what are you doing with that board
1:11:40
game we got my Rook sack and it can go in it be fine but most Rook sacks won't hold some of those big games unless it's
1:11:46
my board game bag which means i' have i' have to have my board game bag strapped which is
1:11:52
doable if it is doable for once a mon month and now I'm going to go with it if
1:11:57
it's not the Trove chest I I'll allow it yeah we'll allow it not the because I like the dress too
1:12:04
much I'll tell you for why don't spoil it I'll tell you for why cuz it's exercise and it'd be good for me
1:12:09
wouldn't it you know like walking around with a load of weight on the back thinking yes you know it it' be good I
1:12:15
might actually lose a bit of Timber so now he's in the supermarket turning around when his Mrs go knocking out over
1:12:21
did you want did you want did you want this version of whatever turns around and just knocks over three old granny's
1:12:27
that are looking at the like delicatess en counter oh I'm so sorry broken your hip over them and all the zombies will
1:12:34
come and eat [Music] you yeah I'm going to go with it I'm going to go heavy bring it on once a
1:12:40
month it's a workout there what were you doing well my I I tried to size it up when I was at home looking at the cubes
1:12:46
and giggity cubes Alex cubes not other cubes mind
1:12:54
out of the gutter nice cute I was thinking about that I was trying to size it up thinking what's
1:12:59
bigger is it my Frost Haven box with I have got a little side box with it to put the tiles in cuz the tiles don't
1:13:05
quite nicely fit in the Box I've got a little side box where I put the tiles in yeah or is it my three Marvel Champions
1:13:12
boxes cuz I bought special boxes which is conversation for some other time but
1:13:18
yeah I got three boxes of that so when they stack they fill up a whole Cube on
1:13:23
three and they're quite heavy and they are quite heavy I'm guessing you got the MDF cut ones right cuz I got the Deep
1:13:30
ones I got the yeah and I can only fit two in uh i' it's definitely I def got
1:13:36
three of them and they fit they do fit yeah but one of them might be one's got the counter tray in it that you put top
1:13:42
of the card only one of them has got the counter tray the other two have not yeah I can slowly fit vertical placed cards
1:13:50
yeah and then the counter I don't know I'd have to look I'd have to look it when I get home it might be I might have one and I haven't I haven't played I
1:13:56
haven't put it in properly I probably haven't built it properly my luck just probably upside down somehow or sideways
1:14:01
and it still fit to be fair I did put little Caster feet on the bottom not casters but
1:14:07
little rubber feet on the bottom cuz I was it's a white cax and I I stain I
1:14:12
stained the box and I was worried that the stain would rub off on so to be fair that's probably why I can't possibly but yeah god I didn't even think about the
1:14:19
Marvel Champions MDF boxes no definitely sticking with my butt and show yeah I I was thinking that that's probably bigger
1:14:25
than my Frost Haven box they weigh a lot and my gluing skills are abysmal if I
1:14:33
move those and I have to take it with me wherever I go that's going to fall apart it's going to be a bottle cap M situation like JP and those cards are
1:14:39
going everywhere and I'm never going to figure it out even though I've put them all in you know scenario based order and
1:14:45
car all the characters are together all the villains together cuz I'm a big nerd and I love it and it's just my OCD I
1:14:52
can't imagine anyone ever doing Marvel Champions where they don't have dividers of some description and an order of some
1:14:58
description now when you started maybe just the basball it soon as you added one of those other boxes it was
1:15:04
immediately out the window as well I felt like yeah I'm just trying to picture what the maniac that just pours
1:15:13
all of their cards into a big box I'll do I'm going to that build hold on you need the Sinister motive just the one
1:15:19
expand well no okay well I'll be here for a week that shifting through these cards uh so no I will I I'm also going
1:15:27
to have to probably take the small option my smallest game is cluster so it's a bag of magnets so I ask why I've
1:15:33
got a bag of magnets I just like to make sort of magnet penis shapes and just yeah is that is that a series of magnets
1:15:38
in your pocket are you pleased to see it very is I just walk around and just sort of pin them on sort of things just leave
1:15:43
them there then at the end of the day I come back and just tidy them up and put them back in the bag the person coming won't be uh saying oh what's that in
1:15:50
your pocket was a game it's like are you sure why do you have an
1:15:55
erection sir yeah I saw I saw you yesterday you sure you don't need medical assistance it's been 12 hours
1:16:02
I'm significantly more tired than I was yesterday good fun question I definitely
1:16:08
go for that okay that's fine
1:16:13
[Music]
1:16:18
cool so now we move on to our penultimate term where we discuss what's upcoming for us things that we're looking forward to and and the like uh
1:16:26
I'll start so I have played two scenarios of the mini expansion that
TURN 5 - Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Up
1:16:34
come with a From the Ashes from the Skyrim Advent game play the dark brother the Dark Brotherhood mini campaign and
1:16:40
that came with that there's like four C mini campaigns that comes with it but we've been playing that with me and my friend um when Frost Haven hasn't been a
1:16:47
Friday night Choice we've decided to play that instead um so we hopefully have only got one more play of that to
1:16:54
go we've got two more assassins that need to be taken out we're about roughly level six um we've got some good gear so
1:17:00
I'm hoping that we can have get that to the table maybe next week I know this this week's off um hopefully next week
1:17:06
and finish that off um That'll be amazing CU then I can move on to probably a different one or actually start the proper campaign for that game
1:17:13
which I've yet to do I just went oh I've got all the expansions now let's play a mini expansion rather than the actual
1:17:18
main game oh right you're not doing the I haven't done the main game just yet I know Rob was like I want we'll do it and
1:17:23
we go okay and that was that yeah um it's just obviously a time thing where trying to get everyone available is um
1:17:30
not easy no but that's life that's me that's what I'm looking forward to what about you JP well I backed uh talking
1:17:37
about kickstarters I don't do anymore uh is it the campaign no it's not a campaign now I've backed um adah's dream
1:17:45
which is from aliat games completely forgot I've actually packed this until this moment I was like what am we going
1:17:51
to talk about so it's about aah love lace and uh I don't really know much
1:17:56
about her but she's apparently the first person or woman to have um invented the
1:18:02
computer something like that okay before the computer age and so if you ever seen
1:18:08
like um uh what is that film of touring um is it touring the imitation game yeah
1:18:15
if you ever seen the imitation game it's kind of like that but obviously set in I
1:18:20
don't know um 19th century or maybe even older I don't even know I don't my history so don't quote me on it but it's
1:18:28
it look like quite a fun dice drafty Rond Deli midweight Euro I've not
1:18:33
actually got like a uh kind solid midweight Euro for a long time and it just looked like it was up my street and
1:18:40
uh the kind of player boards in it has this nice uh where you you kind of building your computer has this nice um
1:18:48
kind of thing where you're you're kind of piecing together like your plus and and minus signs to to basically get the
1:18:55
dice numbers all to add up to certain numbers and then you can slot in these little slot cards that that will help uh
1:19:00
the goals that you're kind of going after so you might be that you have to have certain colors in a row or column or things have to add up over the
1:19:07
certain number get you certain victory points and yeah it looks like my jam it's like
1:19:12
Midway dicey I love dice drafting anyway it's like one of my favorite mechanisms and I'm actually having played coin
1:19:19
recently and uh I kind of feel like I'm getting to the end of my end of my life
1:19:24
life really really dramatic but at the end of my plays with kinra now and I
1:19:30
still think coimbra is great I think it's a solid game but I've played it a lot and I think it's just like it
1:19:35
doesn't excite me as much anymore and it's just the way it is and I think oh maybe this might replace it never played
1:19:42
it so who knows you've only just seen the pictures yeah I just kind of just looked at it watched some videos and
1:19:48
thought it looks up my street give it a go and I've not backed anything for quite a while actually and it wasn't um
1:19:55
obscene it's actually quite reasonable UK based UK shipping you know so it's
1:20:01
you know it's not like a seon shipping where you're paying 100 qu to get it here it's all pretty reasonable so
1:20:06
thought why not let's give it a go no sounds cool yeah awesome lovely that's me what about you Adan yeah I was trying
1:20:12
to think of something where I didn't just go Primal because that's my go-to respons you Primal Primal um so I am
1:20:19
looking forward to playing that but there's a couple of other things so um I was telling you just before the show I
1:20:24
been trying to hook up my quest to use the PC link because I've not done it before I've just used games straight off
1:20:30
the headset and I've had a bit of a nightmare with it computer keeps crashing even though it's it's decent
1:20:36
spec should absolutely be running stuff so I'm looking forward to the point where I get that to work yeah cuz Star
1:20:42
Wars squadrons I my motion sickness has come back a little bit where I've not played
1:20:48
it as much but I really want to try Star Wars squadrons and hope that the motion sickness isn't too crazy in that game
1:20:53
which it has the potential oh God oh God yeah yeah I in I in the cockpit flying this
1:20:59
ship it's I'm now upside down and now I'm doing barrel rolls yeah I think it's perfect for VR that game didn't really
1:21:05
hit when I played it like just on the flat screen yeah and and you know and I thought this be like really my jam but
1:21:12
no I'm I think VR is going to be awesome yeah and halflife Alex is on sale in the steam store at the moment half price and
1:21:19
I keep telling myself I I like that game I don't like jump scares and I know there's few of them in there head crabs
1:21:26
it's not not the scariest thing in the world but yeah if you you jumping your headset's coming off have you play have
1:21:32
you played the Darth Vader experience no have you played it no no Vader Immortal
1:21:37
yeah no not yet so there's one minor jump scare in that that is so
1:21:44
telegraphed and because it's a Star Wars game it's not really but I even found
1:21:49
myself kind of knowing it was coming kind of bracing myself and moving back in order to kind to try and like get
1:21:56
away from it as much as possible and I thought if that's what that's like imagine games that actually want the jump scare in there so I'm a little bit
1:22:03
nervous about halflife Alex but I'm look I really want to now get the PC sort of link up and running so I can play these
1:22:08
games um but the board game wise the game that has sat there for a little while now since gridon that I really
1:22:16
want to give a go is Hamburg which is the stefen Feld relaunch of Bru um City
1:22:23
collection City collection and I say I've Loved what I've played of Stephen Feld so far and I keep telling apart
1:22:28
from Evolution and I keep telling myself it's not a stepen Feld game um I keep
1:22:34
telling myself that I'm going to try more and hamburger sat there for a little while because there's quite there's a few little interaction bits in
1:22:40
that in there and I kept sort telling myself okay well I'll get to that eventually I think it's got to that point now where I just need to get on and play with it so um it's one I'm
1:22:47
going to try and tempt a few groups into playing so I can get a few games of Hamburg in so yeah that's what I'm
1:22:52
looking forward to play anything yeah and with that our final turn is wrapping up and victory points are about to be
1:22:58
scored thank you everyone for listening we really hope you enjoyed it we really appreciate it if you could like And
1:23:04
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1:23:10
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TURN 6 - The Final Turn
1:23:16
coffee spelled k fi to get in contact with us our details can be found in the show notes or on our website which is
1:23:22
www.h who turn. UK we'll be back again next time with another episode so until
1:23:27
then whose turn is it
1:23:35
[Music]
1:23:47
[Applause]