TURN 1 - Player Count
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the whose turn is at anyway podcast proudly sponsors the 24-hour board game marathon a charity event based in ill Mr
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[Music]
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welcome to whose turn is it Anyway your Bard gaming podcast where we occasionally talk to guests from the industry this expansion pack episode is
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no different because we have got none other than David Turczi himself joining us for an evening chat talk all about for
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games design and mainly Star Trek captain's chair which we're so excited to get into so let's just not waste time
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let's just jump over and meet [Music]
TURN 2 - Dávid Turczi's Turn
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David so we are here and very very excited to introduce David Turczi onto our
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show and I'm actually geeking out right now I don't know about you curly but yeah definitely it's like we we when we
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started this podcast David it was like wouldn't it be awesome that we can get one of our favorite designers on the show and here you are so welcome welcome
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to the show thank you that's that that's a great honor and you know I'm I'm I'm just one of the nerd crowd too yeah at
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the right place at the right time nerding so okay I'm always glad if
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somebody is willing to listen to my ramblings for a few hours gladly I mean I met you I think in person for the
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first time at UK games Expo last year you probably don't remember day because you probably been bombarded by so many
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people I'm just simply terrible at remembering yeah no it's fine it's fine and last year last year Essen it took me
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almost a minute to recognize IO tool and I've been in several meetings with so it's not you it's me yeah and we
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we were just kind of nerding out and geeking out about void fall and you were just chatting about that cuz I think that was the uh the the latest game that
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was kind of on hot on the Press at the time so yeah last year Expo yes because
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we were delivering it in the late summer exactly so I was trying to get as much as I can out of you at that point but
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it's all good good luck so yeah I mean what we do David on on the show is that
Dávid's favourite games of all time
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we we typically kind of open up and we like to kind of understand the designers
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um kind of favorite games and things and what they they like to play and and this is the hardest question I'm going to
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probably ask you which is what is your favorite game of all time and it can be one of your own as we've talked about
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off off the recording but what is your favorite what sticks out well I I've been at it for 10 years so my my uh
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favorite has has gone through a lot of changes like I was introduced to proper board games via Battle Star Galactica
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but big 6 hour merry trash fun is not something I would have the patience to
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play these days so whereas for years I would have definitely said that as my favorite um or then I like the one game
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that that stays with me for years and years is Glory to Rome because it's the game that's light enough that you're
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having fun instead of just just burning your brain but it's heavy enough that you're feeling smart Okay so that's
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that's one that always comes to me uh when it comes to like you know proper heavy Heroes my back Garden then then
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historically I always said traran and then I haven't played it for a long time and then I tried to play it it once half
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a year ago and turns out I'm I'm too old and not smart enough for it anymore so
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the game did not get less good I got less good that's what happens with ch Caron though you got to keep you got to
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keep up with it yeah yes I mean I mean Victor and Richard has created a
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Everlasting piece there yeah and uh the C is is the one Las that doesn't matter
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how many times I play I I cannot cannot find anything to complain
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about so that that's awesome um I played Tash-Kalar 200 times and then
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went and made an expansion for it played it another 200 times and not a single time since so this is a them though it's
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a theme that you you enjoy a game and then you go you know what I'll I'll help you with the expansion and definitely
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the solo mode definely happened to Aeons End yes I played Aeons End last summer
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40 times in a month or something because it was one of only two games I took with me on a holiday and and I don't normally
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play solo but Aeons End is like just on the board of light enough that I can take it on a holiday but heavy enough
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that I'm not you know just wasting time yeah and and when when I came back from
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the holiday I sent an email to the designers Publishers saying hey guys I have an idea for an expansion and they
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were like yeah yeah yeah we we we we we have plenty of ideas how to generate content this like I I know how to that
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you can generate content for it but when have you lost designed the new mechanism for the game and they were like okay
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we're listening yeah and you might have seen the kickstarter like it's out so and while that was on
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I've played and another 20ish times obviously they played it hundreds of times during the testing but they're
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experts I've have not even cracked 50 plays all together and since we finished working on it I haven't played it a
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single time so it's this thing all over again it's it's if I want to enjoy a
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game if I want to have the I think the only game that I can still consistently play without needing to work on it is
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Spirit Island so okay okay so I guess it is my favorite game by default because
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that's the only game I'm currently playing more than once yeah so I mean the fact that you was talking off off uh
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off the mics and you know you were saying obviously you're just so busy like the amount of projects that you
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probably spinning at the same time I I wouldn't even Hazard a guess of the number of projects that you've got
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people overestimate the number of projects I work on because the modes are
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all about like giving something to the community while raising my visibility
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but on an average solo project I work what two to three working days okay
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while on an average game I work if only two months if only two to
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four months net then this was a small project yeah okay and then there is something like perseverance that has
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been the second biggest project for the past eight years s so has it been that
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long eight years yeah wow wow eight yeah well eight years since we
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showed it to the publisher n years nine years since we started yeah so yeah so
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it's like actively designing right
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now one late stage where I'm just making tweaks based on what the publisher is
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asking uh content for I can't stop designing stuff for Star
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Trek just because I don't have to yeah um Niger and I are working on another Imperium like game that will more will
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be revealed at all in due time uh I'm I'm working on one new
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design and I'm working on one new like design which is finally in late
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stage and the publisher is taking care of more most things and I just have to make sure that I'm happy so yeah it's
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it's I'm actively designing our five or six games plus we've announced void Falls expansion coming next year so I
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guess that counts as a whole project as well although I haven't done anything on it in the past two three weeks so yeah
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it's it's it's it's about half a dozen projects I'm actively designing and then another half a dozen that I occasionally
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reply on any and I need to mute something because something is beeping in the background and people don't need
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to listen you got lots of notifications cuz again you you've got that many projects you see so people just David
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what about this this rule what about this mechanism what if we do this so you you obviously got a lot of projects on
Do you favour collaborations in your designs rather than on your own?
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the go um and it's fair to say that you really love collaborating right so I
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know you've done uh quite a few designs with Nigel buckle and uh loads of others
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Danielle tenini I mean we could literally reel off the names so do you favor uh collaboration in your design
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space now rather than kind of just attack it solo not counting your solo modes
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sticking well even my soul mod are collaborations Nick show John Albertson David dby Z yeah bunch of people um I
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might you might have noticed I I don't shut up ever which makes designing things on my
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own pretty awkward because if you talk to a quiet room all by yourself for too
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long they tend to lock you up yeah so Plus it it's it's it's much more
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exciting when if I have a good idea somebody says great idea and if I don't
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have a good idea then they can say something that I either can bounce off or can tell them that it's a great idea
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so so that's part one part two is I was in the very lucky situation many years
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ago that I went from a absolute amateur nobody to the designer of an acony
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overnight so touche well done on that we have to say that I mean yeah sure I'm very happy with the game I designed but
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most of the reason why the game was seen is M Clash is genius and we've we've
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always seen Tarion and we talked about it so you know I I I don't pretend that I got here all by myself because I
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didn't I learned everything I know from first from M clash and then once I was
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standing there and suddenly you know the big names of the industry were talking to me then I was like okay sure you know
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it better than me show me let's do this yeah and then they started talking and then I was like okay but what if we do
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it that way and then they were like yeah that's a good idea and then I absorbed a little bit from here a little bit from
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there and then the story I always like to tell is that when I worked with Daniel tenini then he was the inventor
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and I was the developer putting his ideas into a game and then three years
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later that I worked with Lani then I was the inventor and he was the developer putting my ideas into a game so it's
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like I well I learned from one I put it into the other so full it's for me this
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is a form of learning and from you know from V Lera I can learn how to make
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these big and Integrated Systems from uh Martin Wallace I can learn how to make
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the intuitive leaps of of the the the theme and the experience and whatnot but
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uh if I want I don't know streamlining then probably neither of them is what
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where I'm going to learn for and I'm so I'm not even trying to be the best of
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like on like I haven't found yet what I am the biggest expert of in the world of
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but but I feel like that I can talk to any one of them and and hold my ground
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with them and that that makes me feel like I can have fun in any crowd like
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last year I uh at the convention we were guest stars at the same time I met for the first time Jason Matthews the
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designer of Twilight struggle and he's the least War gamer and of the very War
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gamer people yeah and I'm the the most thematic end of the very Euro people so
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our views on how Games should be are very very close together just coming from yeah different fringes but on yeah
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yes so we had a lot of lot of fun talking together and I really hope something someday will fall out of that
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so because you know I I have this um what's the word bucket list of people I need to co
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design collaboration wish list wow yeah that sounds cool it sounds cool I mean
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it makes sense right CU like anything you can do things on your own but if you got those those people to bounce off and
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to challenge you you know I even even if a game is credited only to me that just means that I collaborated with the team
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instead of the person yeah yeah that that I that the idea I took there was instead of 30% finished was 60% %
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finished and then in of one person adding 70 to 50% to it it was a bunch of
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people adding 30 to 50% to it so exactly like next time I'll have something new
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with bord and ice in a year or two you you'll find out when you need to that'll be um um credited just to me but at this
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point the development team have redesigned multiple systems significantly but all of them in the
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direction that I wanted the game it's like it's a collaboration it's it's
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it's I I Am Co designing against their bouncing wall in a way yeah and and and
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when I when I work with Publishers that I you know I know and trust and I know how their development team works then
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they're allowed to cut up whatever the hell they want with my game because I know they're not going to do stupid yeah
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yeah it's the trust isn't it that you know the product at the end is going to be something that that was yeah that makes sense working on an Imperium like
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game is a very different experience because the four five six people that we
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work with on our private little very loudly beeping Discord channel
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is Between the six of us there is like almost a thousand games of Imperium and
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another three to 400 games of Star Tech logged which means no Publishers
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development team can ever no say anything that we haven't discussed 20
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times already in the past five years so four four years what year is this yeah three and a half years since we started
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working on Horizons so so that is a lot bigger responsibility and in a way
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that's why I'm almost more excited about Star Trek than any of my other games besides it being Star Trek that I am the
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boss there yeah like not not not in a business sense no you lead on the vision
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lead on how it's going exactly in every every other project I come with a vis Vision I explain it to people I sell
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them on that vision and then I ask them so what do you want me to do yeah whereas whereas with with void F Nigel
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and I led the ship together and Victor from mineclash had the final override
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that he almost never had to exercise and when he exercised it we were usually
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arrived at the same point by then so it was never a disagreement and for the
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last half year year to year of development we handed the keys
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over to Mi V who's interestingly he was my first Cod designer 10 years ago when
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I started and now he works at mine clash as their in-house developer and he wrote the ru for void for here on the testing
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and he did a lot of the final tweaking so these days when I get a Ru question
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on BGG I ask him what the answer is because it's like CU he's in The Matrix
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and he's you know he knows exactly so so in those senses yes I was in control but
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but I had many people between me and the Oblivion making sure that everything
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works yeah whereas on Horizons and especially on Star Trek
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it's what me and my small Cadre of advisers say goes yeah and that's both
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terrifying and Incredibly exciting so that's great that's great
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especially since the last time I made a game where nobody challenged me we all saw what defense of proon 3 turned out
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to be which is a magnificent art project that hasn't been republished for a very
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good reason fair enough I've not played it I've heard about it I've not played that
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yet I'm really proud of it it's a really fun game one of the four factions is a bit swingy but I I B has figured out how
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to fix it yeah but you'll only have fun if you play it
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exactly like I want you to set up the game hand out the rule books trust me
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and like a significant part of the audience is incapable of trusting such
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an insane idea and and and also it's a one to four
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player game that is great at one and four and and not so great in the middle and that's it yeah so like i' I've
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repitched it to like five other Publishers and they all went yeah this is great we are not publishing
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this so so so that was young me doing an absolute art project and and enjoying it
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luckily Star Trek turned out to be a little bit more responsible than this that's fair let's talk about the latest
TURN 3 - Star Trek Captains Chair
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Star Trek game which Star Trek captain's chair so you've I I've known that you
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and many people in the The Hobby space have known that you've been doing some something with Star Trek for a long time
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been very quietly shouting for over a years I'm doing a Star Trek game but I can't tell you what it is and I'm not
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going to tell you until a certain date and everything's been lined up and I'm allowed to say it and and recently you
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now imagine those poor handful of people who have played the game over the past year and they've been sitting on it and
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they were not allowed to say I mean that's the trust right there right so I know you've been kind of going look I've
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got this secret game that I can't tell you about but I want you to try it out cuz it's freaking awesome so uh you go
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let's have a game but you're sponsor secrecy and if you tell anyone I'll kill you kind of thing um so what what is Star
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Trek's captain's chair what's it all about you play as a captain and your
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deck is your crew your ship or your friends ships your allies your gadgets
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your basic commands your signature moves Etc
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and you play a somewhat similar to Imperial
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deck builder Tableau Builder game with it where you play the cards out some of them stay on the table some of them go
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away at the end of the turn you can buy new cards the cards you buy the four Market suits are called person cargo
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ship and Ali so essentially people stuff things that move and lots of
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people yeah so that's that's how thematically we grouped
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everything and what are you trying to do you are uh trying to secure locations
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which is where your resources come from you are trying to achieve
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encounters which is like sort of mini missions unique to every like every
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human Captain has the same sort of Mini Mission to achieve to get encounter but a kingon captain will have a different
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one um and for Imperium players that's sort of like getting a Fame card but
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it's a lot more not complicated but like a lot more unique than just the glory card was in
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inum it's a lot more built into the system not just a popular table um and
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and the third one is that you have three Specialties uh research influence and Military and certain effects in the game
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push you up on those tracks and uh certain cards get either stronger effect
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if you go up on that track and certain cards don't have innate victory points
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but their Victory Point comes from how high you are on the corresponding track MH and these are this is the three main
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strategies besides this every time you reshuffle your deck you gain one new
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card from your reserve deck a mechanism that will be familiar to Imperium players and when your reserve deck runs
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out you can the every time you reffle again you can buy the development card which tend to have better scorings
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bigger effects but they cost resources uh the again for for Imperium
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players reference it is a lot less necessary to get to your developments so
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the strategies are a lot more open and lot less about deep efficiency um there is no barbarian
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Empire switch or anything like it there's no assession card because those were thematically driven things in
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emperium those were there because it made a lot of sense in history it does not make any sense in stex so we did not
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do it it's the the game's mechanical construction is built Imperium but
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everything was taken apart and questioned from block one so I think the
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the the the the the starting idea was the the the the the tracks can replace
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the star cards as a as a simpler way to motivate people to collect different
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things it's like collect things that push you up the blue track and then collect things that score you for being
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high on the blue track H okay then I don't I don't need to come up with so many cross scoring conditions once this
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idea was born and how this can be made thematic in the Star Trek world then
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it's like all right now let's go through every single mechanism eum has and every single one it doesn't have that needs to
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be in a Star Trek game and question them one by one and and that's how the locations which is a completely new
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stuff we came up with we knew we wanted the the encounter cards because we loved
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the fame cards but we knew we wanted something much more
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live than just popular regions so yeah so you know there is no no AB sides to
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your captain however you have a player board with the three tracks and on the top of the player board there are
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missions and the a side which we now call it basic not B because we learned
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from Imperium on the basic side you have only one Mission and you don't get Victory point for it and if you don't do
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it then your tracks are worthless MH uh but your tracks are scored one to six or
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1 to s for a few captains and on the advanced side your tracks are scored 0
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to five or 0 to six for a few captains but you have three missions and they do
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score victory points and you have to complete at least one of them okay which means more strategies more options
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exactly and we don't give the three missions to the newbies because what to happen is that you tend to complete all
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three of them halfway yeah so for new like pay attention that
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one thing don't forget to do that and whatever you buy it's going to be worth
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at least a victory point it's fine go yeah whereas exact whereas for experts it's
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like well if you are a completely peaceful captain and you buy three military cards that's going to be zero
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victory points for so which thematically makes sense as well like if you know the
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universe and you know Star Trek and you'll know you know a klling on Captain is going to be probably be a little bit
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more aggressive than than a peaceful human star Le Captain not all of them
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but some of them and yeah so for those trackies that are are kind of out there they they'll they should know
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thematically which way to lean and it's just then learning the mechanics right to go interesting and that's another
The rationale for making it 1-2 players
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thing that was a big like almost fundamental rethinking
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of the what can an Imperium like game do was the the the player count yeah
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because Imperium was originally designed as a multiplayer game and we gradually shifted our Focus to the lower player
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counts based on what worked better but the core elements were always
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designed to work at any player count which means they were full of compromises which you can most visibly
24:53
see on the steel effects and on the solstice yeah because we used to have
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start of turn effects in Imperium and in three and four player that really doesn't work because the downtime
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becomes so big that you ask somebody's like hey Bill did you finish your turn no I'm just about to start then what you
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what have you been doing for the past three minutes where if everybody is doing those three minutes in the solce
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then it's a lot less bad so that one and the other one is the attack is the is the stealing one
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material in a two-player game is like okay whatever but stealing one material in a
25:33
four player game is a significant boost to your economy yeah and vice versa
25:39
popping a region in a four player game is hit and miss but popping a region in
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a two-player game when you know that your opponent is down to that one region they need is a huge attack so the the
25:49
attacks in Imperium aren't they they're they're side effects they aren't the
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point yeah of the card which made it like the people who don't like attacks
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were like oh why AR they here the people who like attacks were like these are not attacking
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enough so we we we we didn't like our cake we wanted it more cakey and eat it
26:11
too and and that's what putting the game to two player only well one and two-
26:17
player only but the one player is a two player with the bo allowed us to do we
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came up with the two player because of the location mechanism is essentially a tug of war and we tried the three player
26:29
too four and holy hell it was so we're like could we not yeah but the moment
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the the idea of making the game two player only came up then the the the two
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biggest wins was the resupply step yeah is at the beginning of your turn get a
26:46
bunch of incomes Go stuff yeah and and we put the most complex things we can
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put in the resupply step to a much lower maximum than what's the most complicated
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Source this is in Imperium so we we've learned the the what's okay and what's
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not okay and the second one is the attacks most like you can go a lot
27:12
longer without an attack even with an aggressive deck in Star Tech and even
27:17
when you have an attack in your card you'll probably pick the other option and not attack the opponent but when you
27:23
choose to do attack your opponent it will matter you will do it because that's what you need you will do it
27:28
because you see how it matters to the opponent like the best example of this
27:33
is probably the the first thematically designed card the tribles which says
27:39
it's been a while I don't remember the card by heart but the important part of it is that the the effect continues with
27:46
if your opponent has a cling on duty officer they must dismiss it and take an additional incident and you gain an
27:52
additional Glory so it's like losing a duty officer is is yeah a to pooping
27:57
somebody's region so it's like that card is a medium okay nice uh cargo for
28:05
anyone but if you're playing against somebody with a lot of King on Persons for example a klling on Captain then it
28:11
becomes an amazing um Hazard so it it it molds the
28:18
strategy there's only like two or maybe three general purpose attacks in the
28:23
entire common in the entire game I would say like the the Romulan bird of prey
28:28
from balance of Terror that's that's like I think the only general purpose attack in the base in the base common
28:34
box if I in the in the market deck if I remember correctly there might be one other that I'm forgetting but like we
28:39
didn't need general purpose attacks because all the attacks are about what
28:44
do I need I I need to bounce his duty officer I need to kick out that away
28:50
team so that I can secure that location I need to give an incident so that if we
28:55
get into a burn situation then they have one more than me so they are all very
29:00
precise very targeted exactly so so they never F
29:07
feel randomly mean they're always like yeah I deserved that and I think that's that's one of the things like when I've
29:13
been watching uh some of the information and and the interviews that you've done and and kind of going through uh some of
29:19
the card examples and the fact that even in Imperium you had lots of choice right
29:25
when you get your opening hand and even what you have in your tableau depending on what factions you play as but just to
29:31
Shear like here's one card and you can do this in three different ways there's
29:36
three different like you can lean it to left right or forward okay and that's not that's not even playing a person can
29:42
be played or promoted yeah and sometimes they have two play operations uh a directive that's the
29:50
basic action cards like the gray stripes in Imperium those have usually two
29:56
sometimes three operations and if they have three then at least one of the three is not an action
30:02
so just saying oh I want to play analyze okay but is it one of my actions or is
30:07
it not one of my actions so yeah that's the other thing in Imperium every card plays an action except if you say it's
30:13
free play here we turn it around nothing is an action except if you say it is yeah and for most card plays we say that
30:20
it's an action and for most activations we don't say it's an action but we are
30:25
very comfortable with yeah with with not with making cards not an action and with
30:31
making activations actions so it it makes things a lot more natural than
30:37
just making it about exceptions yeah so it's very clear because on the card you have the action icon don't you right
30:43
next to the operation so you know yeah that's going to cost me one on my three or actually he doesn't have one yes I
30:49
can I found the balls g one influence gain one latinum junk a card from the
30:54
market your opponent takes an incident this all of their cling on Duty Officers
31:00
if any were dismissed force them to discard a card yeah for Tribbles yeah there's going to be I'm guessing a lot
31:05
of Easter eggs in there for Star Trek fans as well because the triples W weren't they the scourge of the triples
31:11
of Kling on Empire absolutely hate them right which is the way that one I mean everybody who play played it hardcore
31:18
enough turkey fans the first thing they always start giggling on is when they pull the co off from the encounter deck
31:25
so that's that's that's the Easter egg about the EGS so it's like lower decks
31:30
has been a Haven sent cuz you know St is amazing and also hilarious and
31:37
also terrible in a lovable way you know whack is it but on the other hand you're
31:43
also can't make fun of it in an official product yeah except if lower decks
31:49
already made fun of it low then it's law then it's fine yeah exactly
31:55
so secretly one of my favorite lower decks actually I haven't watched I'm going to have to give it a go it's top
32:02
five series for me as well on on its average day and it's top two on it's
32:07
good I'm watching it now yeah it's really good yeah that's on my list and the other series I keep convincing
32:13
everybody to watch his Prodigy that most people skip because ah it's a K series it's fantastic okay okay don't skip it
32:20
no noted so yeah there's only one Prodigy
32:25
card in the base box but it's the most valuable card in the game so oh there you go it's all weighted isn't it there
Did it change your way of designing this being such a great Star Trek fan?
32:31
we go yes um so just quick question from me then David um how much for Star Trek
32:36
fan are you and I kind of know the answer to this one so I'll expand on that a little bit did it change your way
32:42
of Designing it did you enjoy it more did it make you approach it in a different way um being such a big fan I
32:49
am a allpurpose Sci-Fi nerd like if tomorrow you told me to design a starget sg1 board game I it would probably take
32:56
me 30 seconds to be this about that and and just go um yes I I
33:03
always was a huge Star Tech fan but like I I I I've never dressed up in costumes I've never collected stuff I like I'm
33:11
not a not a hardcore fan D person I'm a I'm
33:18
an all allpurpose can get excited about anything good Sci-Fi stuff yeah Omni
33:24
SciFi yes and also have an on natural tendency of remembering unnecessary
33:31
details about everything yeah fair enough which means once I start thinking about H I
33:38
need to design a card about a uh influence
33:44
Gathering pirate that uh uh wants to spend
33:50
resources to quickly grab thing okay that's a case on radar so it's like like
33:56
like I open Memory off either when I dig for ridiculously obscure things or when
34:01
I check how his name is spelled yeah yeah or or when all I remember is that
34:08
that dude from that deep face 9 episode who who sent his uh ex-wife to seduce
34:14
Odo what was the name of their species and then then then I I figure out which episode that was and then I look up the
34:20
name of the species so I think we're probably at a similar level actually cuz um I have to say I
34:27
did a minim amount of kind of uh research on on some of the captains because I looked at the pictures and I
34:32
was like right I know what's going on here for an example I wasn't a big um fan of Enterprise not NE watched wrong
34:39
then enterpris is on its average days is slightly
34:46
weaker than deep sa 9 on its best days it's better than deep SP 9 see when I say I'm not a fan of Enterprise I mean I
34:52
haven't given it a chance that's really what I mean so I don't dislike it Enterprise season 4 is the best like the
34:59
last season of the '90s Star Trek is the best season of the '90s Star Trek quote
35:04
me on that I think my problem with with Enterprise actually because I did watch a couple of episodes at the start is that I can't unsee Archer as Quantum
35:12
Leap that's my biggest problem oh boy from when I from when I was a kid you know and it's difficult
35:18
to and if you want to make and if you you know let me make a Quantum Le board game that be amazing that would be
35:25
amazing oh please do I'd buy that in a nano I love I I've only seen two
35:30
episodes of the new series but then I heard they canceled it so now no point now I'm not motivated to watch it
35:36
anymore although although to be fair DS9 is my favorite series so you know I I totally know where you're getting from
35:42
it's like like almost all like most of my top 10 episodes are in deep space time yeah definitely but but if if you
35:49
say I can pick one season that I can watch through and only one season from
35:55
all of Star Tech that will be the fourth season of Enterprise that that is my my my onto my viewing list then
36:03
yeah I've got I've got some Star Trek to catch up on um I I grew up with the the not so great ones so I say grew up I
36:11
mean be careful with what you're going to say no no no I think most most of the community would would agree like Voyager
36:16
is is the one that just pops out from my youth um I know it's not the most fan
36:21
favorite a lot of people hate on it I mean um but it is what it is I have my issues with it as well but there's a lot
36:27
of people people who it spoke to because the people who wanted more either wanted
36:33
more TNG like things it did TNG like things in a sort of more exciting way
36:38
yeah so people who wanted that it delivered very well people who wanted Battle Star Galactica before Battle Star
36:45
Galactica was a thing were very much disappointed yes so wer very badly failed at being Battle Star Galactica
36:51
but luckily that gave us Battle Star Galactica which awesome yes exactly um
36:58
which was created explicitly as a response to Voyager failing to be battle
37:03
Galactica but uh yeah no and I love most of new track as well except Bard I don't
37:11
know what happened there not seeing it it was a bit too slow for me though the first season was just so slow I I kind
37:16
of lost a little bit of interest that is the least of its problem I don't mind it being
37:23
slow it just wasn't very good what what I always wanted I don't
37:28
know if you remember but DS9 the end of season 4 beginning of season 5 um with
37:34
the whole cling on attack I no wait there and sorry uh the Next Generation uh end of season 4 beginning of season
37:40
five where Picard gets kidnapped and the whole Bor thing and I kind of wanted bicard to be the whole thing when he was
37:46
on that French Vineyard and he went back to Earth and he was recuperating I kind of wanted it to be an expansion on that
37:51
and it just never happened um so that was kind of like intrig they get back to it in the third season but then that get
37:57
stupid for different reasons yeah I like the fact you stuck with it though David it's like it was terrible
38:04
but I watched it all I watched all of it I had to committed by that point however
38:09
I will gladly defend Discovery it has its I like discover and it it has its
38:16
stupidities but by large and far it is really good yeah I enjoyed it until they
38:22
moved it onto a different network and I haven't got Paramount so yeah like it was on Netflix it was
38:29
fine um but yeah I was enjoying that I mean probably an obvious question David so did you approach Whiz Kids for
38:38
for Star Trek so this is this is all your fault basically I I I I we finished Horizons and I was like Nigel we've been
38:45
designing decks for Horizons for 19 months now what am I going to do with my life
38:52
now more yeah more more Horizons yeah and then three days later I had the
38:58
email sent and a week later we had the meeting done and two weeks later I had the contract in my hands so it was not a
39:04
long process they were they're like yes please that makes sense yeah nice nice
How can captains from different eras compete against each other thematically?
39:10
so I mean in the game obviously you've got six captains in the box right um so
39:16
you probably got to remind me who they are but you obviously gotard Cisco yeah and Burnham are the three Federation
39:23
captains and Shan cah and kof are the
39:28
not Federation on yeah so I mean thematically they're all from different timelines they're all from different
39:33
areas or Star very good answers how are they playing against each other how are they fighting each other I have two
39:39
answers to this the in Universe answer to this is there's a paragraph this long at the beginning of the rule book that
39:45
says that we are all Cadets in the late 32nd Century Starfleet freshly reopen
39:51
starfit Academy and we're running this uh simulation where we can recruit people from all of the historical
39:57
database and to figure out which one of us is the best captain and can we do better than the historical Legends and
40:04
then this is never mentioned ever again in the rule book or any terminology of the game this was exactly just to answer
40:10
this question when people ask yeah the much more relevant Doan answer here is
40:19
that so many Star board games do very well with taking one piece
40:26
of narrative from track making itself very thematic for that one piece of
40:31
narrative and not very thematic for the track
40:37
experience whereas I said screw the narrative you have a thousand episodes
40:42
of narratives to be reminded of yeah you live the narrative in your own hand you
40:48
do it yeah you will feel like the the the Rio Grand that just flew to that uh
40:54
uh planet and then Odo quickly arrested
40:59
quark's body and you use that extra information to have Warf send down some
41:05
extra security you figured that out what I need to do is make you feel like
41:10
you're doing it so I moved the theme from
41:16
The highlevel Narrative to the lowlevel actions yeah so the game does not have a
41:24
high level narrative but every single move you do you could
41:30
describe as if it was half an episode or a scene or a or a or conversation in an
41:37
episode you know it's like if you want to feel the theme will will give it to
41:43
you and two experiences helped here a lot with Imperium we developed the the
41:48
thematical parallels technique where in Imperium every card themed around
41:54
writing was always about deing every card themed around religion was always either about getting rid of unrest or
42:01
taking unrest to get more actions stuff like this so taking this logic and
42:06
applying it onto Star Trek doctors cure incidents security guards either send
42:12
down away teams or protect your away away teams uh and there's 20 more of the
42:17
cloaked ships can send down away away teams without giving the opp opponent an
42:23
opportunity to block them yeah and and if you do it cross enough cards then
42:29
after a while when you pick up a new card that you have never seen but thematically you know what it is about
42:35
you'll feel what the card should do and the card will roughly do that and conversely if you have no idea what that
42:41
ship is because you haven't seen that episode but you play the card you kind of feel what those guys are about so I
42:49
mean you you're creating a I mean it's a great decision right which is there's no corner of Star Trek that
42:56
you can't go to too by by doing that so you can go I can go anywhere any episode
43:02
any series any bit of faction any bit of Law whatever doesn't have a central
43:10
narrative it doesn't have a a you know a cop show a lawyer show or
43:16
or a or a the bunch of command going down the why liit ourselves that just
43:22
yeah open the the the the the neutral zone in the Middle with the location
43:27
for is there but even there we haven't really defined what we're doing it's
43:33
called securing a location and taking control of it but those are just gameplay terms when when it's piard
43:39
doing it we're not picturing you going in with an War Fleet and taking capture
43:46
it's it's it's sending probes I mean the the encounter mission for the Federation
43:51
is to take take control of a planet put a ship on it then put an extra away team
43:57
it and then L it I run a complete survey of a new location that you just scanned
44:03
and how is this card called it's called strange new worlds so and you put all these little inputs
44:10
together and you're you you're feeling what's happening yeah I mean it it makes sense like you putting the little
44:16
stepstones in and and like you say thematically You're Building the bridges between it all and it's the same with Imperium is you
44:24
for you feel like you are advancing that ization it's it's really clever yeah and
44:29
the other experience that that I had since that that helped me a lot on this was perseverance yes because
44:35
perseverance was was where we did uh narrative mechanisms where if the mechanism was
44:44
called defend against dinos then you had to take something to defend with and put it in front of a dino if the action was
44:51
explore the jungle then you had to take something put it in somewhere and take off something from the GI jungle jungle
44:57
instead so everything did what it said it does yeah and and as as the episodes
45:06
got more and more involved we had less and less getto resource type actions because those were the least thematic by
45:12
episode 4 I don't think we even have more than half an action that gives you a resource so taking like would this
45:21
action be thematic enough for perseverance and applying that logic to as many as possible certainly I can't
45:28
apply to everything because there has to be actions that are just like here take a DI lithium you stu yeah but as soon as
45:36
this card makes me think of something how can an action mapping
45:42
makes me feel like that and then once I found it use Imperium parel mechanisms pattern on it
45:52
it just Paints the world yeah so in of having a game narrative we have
45:59
mechanisms narrative yeah and narrative theme on it instead putting theme on it
46:05
we put parallel mechanisms on it and and those two things yeah those those those two things
46:12
just just bring it together that's awesome it also means you can expand it
46:18
right I'm not I'm not going to ask you worry I'm not asking you so far so far
46:23
nobody on BGG has managed to request make a reasonable request for a deck
46:30
that I either haven't already came up with or that person is in somebody
46:35
else's deck therefore not going to be sure sure enough yeah I mean to be fair
46:41
I I do have one particular deck that I'm looking forward to but um y tell me you want me to tell you um I don't know
46:47
whether it would actually work because technically I'm trying to think of a captain that this would fit for but I I absolutely love the fank we we we we
46:55
take the term Captain increasing Loosely see that's what I was hoping Captain es yeah yeah so the fangi are absolutely my
47:03
favorite race I just find them so funny at least one fi on my list oh good man
47:08
that's what I was hoping for so uh yeah so like hopefully being kind of like trade mechanism that kind of thing we
47:14
won't ask but you know the point is as long as they're in there somewhere I'm happy well EV sometimes soon you'll find out how
47:24
Burnham and dum works and since you know that our other resources called latinum MH I'll let you figure
47:31
out how the they like latinum a lot of it yeah
47:37
can't wait can't wait um so you mentioned before that it's a mechanical sequel to
Did you find this design more free compared to it's mechanical predecessor Imperium
47:42
Imperium um I'm just a little bit curious with the um less limitations you
47:48
know with with I imagine with Horizons and Imperium in general you had to tell part of that them did you find this a
47:54
Freer experience would you say this is a now I don't want to say better game but this is more the way that you envisioned wanting to make Imperium bit more
48:01
streamlined changes um go yes and no no because
48:07
because Imperium is the is we made the best of what niger's original Vision was
48:14
brought out to be and niger's original Vision was a deck builder with a tableau building
48:20
element to provide that feeling of a buildup and his Central mechanism was always the Barbarian to Empire switch
48:28
the first working title for the game was Barbarian to Empire so what what a
48:35
catchy name I know should have St with it but yes there are some mechanisms
48:41
that were specifically designed to fix complaints about Imperium very few of them most notably the star cards being
48:49
replaced with the tracks yeah because we wanted every Victory point to be either trivial to count or be visible
48:55
throughout the game instead of having to cross reference yeah um but most of it
49:01
is just simply coming from a different starting point because nja started from a deck builder and added more and
49:09
interlocking things to it and then when I came on board I started adding more interlocking things to it and then we
49:15
started refining those interactions and then we added the trade routs on top of it to create a new kind of
49:21
interaction whereas this is more like okay we found out what's the one kind of
49:27
deck builder that I don't hate what else can be done with that mechanism yeah and
49:34
and taking and why does it work in Imperium because it's essentially taking
49:40
a bunch of magic togethering cards shuffling them together and going knots on them so where is that little spark
49:49
that turns that into a fun game and and the three things we identified was the
49:54
Tableau building the uh the the private reserve cards so that you can have an
49:59
arc guaranteed to it yeah which I love do Imperium like the next guy but when
50:05
you make your turn two plan you have no idea what will happen on turn seven yeah because the game does not have a
50:11
guaranteed Arc which from a medium heavy game is amazing but if you're designing
50:16
a heavy game you can't do that no just fall heavy heavy game doesn't have an arc then you know yeah then some people
50:25
will have a good time some people will not have a good time and yet Imperium and the specialist AR can guarantee that
50:32
once you know the game you will have a good time because because we've tested out every or many possible ways the arc
50:38
can go and we've made sure that none of them is table flipping yeah so uh and the third one was and only the
50:46
third one is approaching it as if it was a as I said quote unquote Magic the
50:52
Gathering like card where cards do what they sayh like the the very first thing
50:57
that we had to uh when when I was explaining the game to the biscuits team was like they were like can we make a
51:03
player a of the actions I was like okay first item on it will be player card now
51:09
what's the second item nothing it literally is all there
51:14
everything you need to know is all there but so so in a way STK is both more
51:20
streamlined than Imperium and more complicated so it's it's not we didn't
51:25
streamline Imperium we took the same bricks and built a different game so
51:31
there are other reasons besides theme to pick both of them yeah I think you know
51:36
going quickly back to Imperium I think one of my favorite things is obviously
51:42
the the diversity of the decks and diversity of the the factions and I just love the fact that I know you and Nigel
51:47
were probably having a competition and going right you I've come up with this mad deck that does this this and this
51:52
and you're like let me toward towards the end of Horizons we did have got I'm going to come back with another
51:59
n [ __ ] did the in and the csts yes and
52:04
which one was mine the polans wasn't it oh Polynesians we we we redesigned back
52:09
and forth and the Martians was my idea he redesigned it and then I fixed his redesign uh the the Polynesians was
52:17
bounced more than once because the Polynesians was incredibly hard I think that was one that survived my crazy
52:23
ideas but yeah usually my ideas were too crazy so those usually to down and I learned a lot from them so my my ideas
52:30
for Tech tends to live a lot quicker than my ideas for Imperium used to
52:35
because Stark is built along my logic lines while was built along Nigel's logic lines so so that's why it's for me
52:44
it's easier to explain them but they are not improvements they are fortifications
52:49
yes so and I can see plenty of people for whom those are negatives so more of
52:55
a mechanical Uncle than basically mechanical Uncle not the man from Uncle
53:00
the mechanical Uncle mechanic I like that using that fair enough um so also
Leaning into the diversity of Star Trek and gaming
53:05
um I was having a little look through your um six captains in in the in the starter set um and I thought it was
53:11
really interesting you seem to have taken a really diverse kind of look at um many different um sort of shows many
53:19
different of the of the of the um series but you also did a mixture of the different races and a mixture of the
53:25
different genders as to highlight the amazing capabilities of the asymmetry
53:30
framework that's what I was going to I was going to ask whether that was kind of trying to keep everyone kind of or if
53:35
you like this then you know that series then you've got someone in there for you or was it more just a mechanical kind of
53:41
to keep people unique and for the Thematic purposes let's let's get the new Kirk conspiracies out of the way the
53:47
only person section was meant to please was me excellent so the the way these
53:53
captains are picked is do I like them or do they make sense to me and then after
54:00
we pass that gate I ask wh kids if they have any marketing opposition or or
54:05
requirements towards me and then I asked them if switching these two would make them like better or not and that's it
54:13
like like the amount of creative control they have given me is ridiculous and I have been bosing in that so feel free to
54:21
blame me for everything diversity both for representational and for gameplay
54:27
reasons are entirely on purpose yeah because why not I think for me though
54:33
like the fact that I mean I like Star Trek I'm a fan um but there are certain
54:39
captains in that box that I don't know so and it's the same thing that I I did with Imperium right so you you started
54:45
off with Imperium Classics your Romans are in there like you know yeah I know where they are the the Cs this that and
54:50
the other and then as you kind of went on there was like the assassinates and like who the hell
54:57
Horizons we actively were picking people that we knew that most people at best
55:03
have heard of or heard of an umbrella term for them but not for these people
55:08
like like the the abids most people would have heard of as the Arab calipat the the sassan most people would have
55:14
heard of as the neop Persian Empire but but the neop Persian Empire was three
55:20
different Empires one after each other and and they hated each other so it's like we took the middle one the most
55:26
most exciting one the one that went two to2 with Rome and won several times with the Arab cat we had to be
55:33
trickier because some of them are religious issues so we picked one that
55:39
was that did both worry things and civilized things and so but yeah it's
55:46
picking the civilizations in in Horizons was was was was a journey by itself yeah
55:52
but what what it made me do is research and look them up and go right where in the world are these these guys from yeah
55:59
I think the number of people who Googled the after Horizon came out is is exactly
56:04
and I think the same will happen like on this Star Trek captain's chair which is actually I don't know that person where
56:10
they what series are they from and actually is you get to play the decks and you get to see the characters and you get to see the you know the the
56:17
stories that you kind of tell them what's it going to make me do it's going to make me probably go back and watch
56:22
some of these series that I've never watched before so in the r book like Imperium we did the uh one paragraph
56:29
introduction for all decks here we have a meet the crew okay two pages in the
56:35
end and after the Thematic blur which has a bit of mechanisms moven into it
56:41
the last paragraph is uh referenced episodes to watch nice excellent if you
56:47
enjoy this watch these yeah I I haven't done that for the common cards because almost every common card is from a
56:52
different episode so I would have had to list like 70 plus episodes there I am thinking of compiling that list for B if
56:58
I have the time because I know which episodes they came from but yes it's it's it's very much very much episode
57:06
hunting and and knowing what What feelings I I invoke and and sometimes I
57:12
make very controversial choices on purpose to to make people look at like
57:18
uh sah the Romulan Commander from TNG T's daughter from the alternative
57:24
timeline she's in what three four T episodes yeah I took every single
57:30
Romulan plot not conducted by the talar because those are saved for future
57:36
possible decks every single Romulan PL not conducted by talar and folded it
57:42
into this deck right her last her two most expensive uh developments are
57:49
shinzon and the shimar like you know and Nemesis is not
57:55
exactly the most beloved movie plus I quite like it yeah it's it's it's fun
58:01
but in a very weird way yeah but and and and and making the making the Thematic
58:07
link between the the semi oneoff rulan enemy
58:12
from the series with the semi oneof Romulan enemy from the the movie like
58:19
yet when you play it and since in the deck it's like from the fir from your starting hand it's like okay do I want
58:25
to use my Aran to fight or do I want to use my Aran to just get me D lithium
58:32
like are they just slaves or are they Warriors and the more you use them for
58:37
warriors the more likely that you will want to buy the rean developments instead of the Romulan developments but
58:43
the better the rean developments get the more demanding they are after a while they start demanding to kill
58:51
romulans but if you start paying their demands then after while you get the Shar which is the strongest ship in the
58:57
game yeah so for good reason it's like you're writing an episode right now actually exactly so so finding
59:07
these uh links that uh uh that that I can make a story of the the the the King
59:13
on death deck kof uh it's not very apparent because the art team picked the
59:19
Deep C9 L for the dude I paid call of originally because I wanted somebody to represent the original series cuz I
59:26
that I will evily ignore Kirk because you know my evil agenda and everything um and then I went and took note of
59:35
every single original series and two animated series episodes with klling gon
59:41
in them and involved its plot somehow in that deck right so and yes the other two
59:49
of their developments is Kang and core because obviously core Kang and Koff
59:55
yeah but but everything from private little war to to day of the DAV yeah
1:00:00
those are all there because the T never bothered Universe building but what if
1:00:06
the king gons had a plot you and I created that deck for you and and or
1:00:12
Darin is in there but you know and and awesome oh and K on Dax is in there
1:00:19
because we know from DS9 that they were old friends we've never seen them together but it makes sense sense yeah
1:00:26
yeah cuz that was a big plot line in DS9 wasn't it was shadia Dax you know yeah
1:00:31
yeah interesting yeah K on Dax is in the cling on Deck it awesome it made perfect sense for me so see and even for myself
1:00:39
I um I was having a look at um Shan and um I I I recognized the actor from other
1:00:45
Star Trek roles so even then I was like I know who that is and that was way right yes exactly right so uh but he was
1:00:53
again a really cool character in greatest the one of the greatest guest
1:00:59
stars definitely so one of the main reasons to like Enterprise by the way really was he was he in a lot of
1:01:05
episodes because as I said I haven't got into the latest season in the first and the second season he was in I think two
1:01:11
episodes each and those are probably the four best episodes of the first two seasons excellent uh or maybe just three
1:01:19
something like that and then in the the third season is like one big story line and then he shows up in the middle for
1:01:25
one important episode and then shows up at the final battle in the last episode and then the fourth season has these
1:01:31
three episode mini arcs and one of the mini arcs is about him got you okay and
1:01:37
then he pops up for a quick hello on the last episode again but the last episode is terrible and we don't talk
1:01:42
about so I only make fun of it on a few cards good idea good idea what's your if
What's your favourite deck you like playing the most from this box?
1:01:49
you know and I'm sure you do but what's your favorite deck out of the the core box then which is the one that you like
1:01:56
playing the most even though you probably haven't played them for while the most recently so that's the one
1:02:02
where which I remember the most uh during testing I know I played callof
1:02:08
the most yeah okay po Pickard and Shan are disadvantaged because since they are the
1:02:14
only two I was allowed allowed to use for demos I am mildly bored of them because I have explained the all the
1:02:20
simple tricks to the First Time Players like
1:02:26
right they're like the one out of 10 two out of 10 yeah is the one out of 10 and Shan is the two out of 10 but yeah well
1:02:34
so it's not that I'm bored of playing them it's that I'm bored of explaining
1:02:39
what's cool about them because I've done that a lot so but I've been I've been
1:02:45
staring at salah's deck for the past few days and it's like should I go back and play sah for Fun N let's design a new
1:02:51
deck that's yeah but that's fun too you know it's hly addictive yeah good on you good
When can we "engage" on picking up a copy?
1:03:00
on you so when I think the immortal question is when when if people are excited about Star Trek and excited
1:03:06
about Star Trek's captain's chair when can they get their hands on this David when's it coming out be demoing it at
1:03:12
Jon but those will be pre-production copies yeah I don't know what whis kid's
1:03:18
Presence at Asen will be that's but they know we'll see if they're there not whatever and they're
1:03:25
relas is they said Q4 so I would guess late October early November probably like stuff like B gon
1:03:33
it'll be there by that I don't know don't don't take it as a promise but we'll see when it comes out I'm I'm
1:03:38
definitely in trade I mean I'm I'm hoping to get a little cheeky game in with Paul Grogan tomorrow I'm actually
1:03:44
quite jealous I have a go so I'm playing Shan and he's playing Bard which I think
1:03:50
he's been practicing with Picard um so he's probably going to WIP the floor with if he's played it a few times um
1:03:56
yeah but you've played Imperium a few times yeah I've played I've played Imperium a few times like NY 40 I think
1:04:03
a lot that makes you um a lower intermediate yes yeah I mean no means
1:04:09
one of your play testers David but uh but yeah I I love that Imperium that I really love is that you know there's the
1:04:16
solitire games geek list on BGG and the following story I have seen happen two
1:04:22
or three times already that somebody posts saying so I bought Imperium it looks a bit intimidating but I bumbled
1:04:29
through the game it's interesting I don't quite know if I like it it's a bit weird next day a second post comes okay
1:04:37
I've played it again I think I understood every rule it it is starting to look good nothing from that guy for a
1:04:44
week or two week or two later okay I just finished my 16th game of Imperium I'm
1:04:50
starting to like it yeah he still comes back to it yeah that's the thing with
1:04:56
and then somebody comments underneath is come back when you hit 50 yeah like when when you see the patterns and you can
1:05:04
see the synergies and oh man it's so deep that that game is so deep I I I
1:05:09
still think it's probably my favorite solo I always say that I hit 50 third
1:05:15
way into Horizon's development so wow I had that moment where where I went holy
1:05:22
[ __ ] this does even more than I thought it does how has this happen it's just given
1:05:27
birth by itself no because like the game was
1:05:33
fully playable before I started working on it I did some systematic improvements
1:05:38
to it so you know blame me for the the progress on the market and the Garrison
1:05:44
and the regions popping it but but like the how the card effects are structured
1:05:51
and what gives victory points that was all done by what the suits are those are all long long designed before I joined
1:05:57
the team like SE eight seven or eight decks were like completely finished and like 12 of them existed in some form
1:06:04
before I started designing out of the original 16 and even the remaining four was more like me giving inspiration to
1:06:11
Niger and he designing them whereas Horizons was completely yeah back and forth designing so and
1:06:18
and our testers were already in the 300s when I was like okay I played this game about 15 20 times now let's let's let's
1:06:25
play it a few more times now yeah and and thinking it back I suddenly remembered that when I first played the
1:06:32
game seven years ago or eight years ago my first three four games had the exact
1:06:38
same I don't know if I like this game but it's interesting feeling to it so it's like holy crap that happened to me
1:06:46
too so yeah it's definitely there you just play it though you play it and you
1:06:51
go mechanically I'm I'm just going for the process and I'm doing the thing and is it and I always found the whole deck
1:06:58
development process really intriguing and interesting and how you start with your deck and you go through your your
1:07:03
nation deck and you know your development cards and Ascend all that kind of stuff but then you get to the scoring you go I did really
1:07:10
badly and then you could how could I improve upon this and then when that clicks with you when you kind of then
1:07:17
you know oh I can buy Cards in the market not to play them but just solely just for this scoring and purposes and
1:07:23
just ditch it into history and that's fine that's viable and and that for me then opened it up so it's like look for
1:07:30
cards you want to play look for cards you just want to score and not worry about anything else and yeah go for it and then suddenly the score start
1:07:37
ratcheting up to you know over the hundreds into the you know well I think my highest is Vikings I think I've got
1:07:44
150 something that's the highest I've got with Vikings I think you pretty much smashed me first time
1:07:49
play it was just like it just everything popped off it all wor I mean it I could have calculated the end score wrong
1:07:55
there's always a possibility but I think I was I wasn't using the app then so
1:08:00
it's a it's a lot less uh I think you got 140 against me in my first ever game I got like oh I'm really pleased with
1:08:06
this I got like 90 and then he's like 146 or something oh great yeah but again
1:08:12
Imperium has player triggered end games so if the Newbie doesn't know how to end
1:08:17
the game you can get a lot of points Captain shair has a reasonably well behaved endgame trigger so even even if
1:08:25
you're really bumbling around the game will shut itself down in 13 turns whereas for most of my play testers the
1:08:31
game is now down to eight or nine holy crap guys what are you doing I've not got going yet chill
1:08:38
out cool any other um points to add on Star Trek that you haven't mentioned
1:08:44
David anything that you want to kind of get across to million things I want to say but I can't I know and that's why
1:08:49
I'm not going to ask you cuz you know it's it's purely secretive and you should keep those Secrets because it
1:08:55
just there so much stuff I want to geek out about how this par into that and but those are all not yet officially
1:09:02
commissioned TS so I can't guarantee that they'll be like that a year from now or two years from now and and just
1:09:08
get people arguing about that ahead of time saying they want the other guy to be the captain is like pointless yeah
1:09:14
but the fact is like you you've got all this stuff on the hip right so and if this game I say if when this game
1:09:20
becomes successful it will be um it's there right so so it's just if whiz KBS
1:09:26
come come a knock in it's I've got more captains let's do it so yeah
1:09:33
excellent so we get to the kind of the end of the show and what we usually like to do with our guest David is do some
1:09:39
quick fire Niche number ones so nich number ones is an episode we haven't done one for a while have we no we haven't but nich number ones is
1:09:46
basically we we take a a series of uh scenarios of nich circumstances and pick
1:09:51
your favorite game in that nich circumstance so I've just got a few here I mean curly do you want to you want if
1:09:57
take your time on this by the way if you need to or just quick fire it okay so the first nich for number one then is uh
TURN 4 - Dávid's Niche Number 1's
1:10:03
favorite game that everyone else hates hyperboria okay what's that then have I have I come
1:10:11
on it sounds familiar what is it it's one of the games that Tomas famously lit
1:10:16
lit on fire and to it in the bra B okay it's a game that must masquerade
1:10:25
did as an Merit trash dude on them dudes on the map game whereas it's just a back
1:10:31
Builder with cubes and hardcore Euro uh
1:10:36
Cube combos or as I like to call it orans without the randomness right right
1:10:42
got you you got orens we we haven't played that yet no it's in the it's in the completely fired orens for me it's
1:10:49
it's like like no can you still get it no no fair out of print since the year
1:10:56
it went into print oh Fair because everybody considered it the total failure so it's amazing oh okay one of
1:11:04
those games that just yeah sunk but you're like why because they completely
1:11:09
mismarked it because if you look at the cover it's six Super fantasy fighter
1:11:15
dudes and the game comes with 40 Miniatures which are just player colored
1:11:20
tokens so yeah fair enough great answer
1:11:25
um right favorite game that doesn't have a David tury solo
1:11:30
mode well that's easy because you know is it because you got most of [Laughter]
1:11:38
them oh [ __ ] um I thought it would be
1:11:45
easier yes don't him damn I have wormed my way into everything I like God damn
1:11:52
it there is a one isn't there I mean Bross is the safe pick yeah
1:11:58
that's fair got you but just because Maro made such a good solo mode into it that I I didn't need to workn my way
1:12:05
into it afterwards fair fair enough what's your favorite game that you've lost your [ __ ] over the one that's made
1:12:11
you tilt I mine for years defitely when
1:12:17
I realized how badly I'm doing in my last game of T car and that that made me really lose my [ __ ] but was like the
1:12:23
hell is happening here like how I should be better with this it's like I used to
1:12:29
hold my ground against the lead designer on this game what What's Happening Here
1:12:34
is that with Academy though I'm assuming it's with Academy right like I don't remember whether we
1:12:40
played this with the academ or not and one of the guys are like whatever game I teach him teach it to him he always
1:12:46
beats me at it so that's okay but at least I tend to be like competitive to for the second place and we were and I
1:12:53
told it to all three of them and I was fighting for third place and like what the hell is
1:13:00
happening here I don't know I was I must have been out of it that day so sometimes I feel
1:13:07
with Trier on it and keep in mind this is a top five game for me so I absolutely love it sometimes I feel like
1:13:12
if someone else happens to get in your the way of your strategy you're just going to get a worse score you know like
1:13:18
if someone else goes for the trick that you're going for you screw yeah it it just puts a big Blocker in the way and
1:13:24
you can get away around it and you know that's part of the skill of the game but um think is identifying that someone is
1:13:29
about to uh to get that trick that's half the battle but usually I'm so locked into my own mind puzzle that it's
1:13:36
always a surprise where's that gone where that Tri G oh yeah I've just bought it you
1:13:43
bastard which is usually the case there we go there we go cool good to get some
1:13:49
trer on love cuz yeah one of our faves right so no David let let let's wrap the
Thanking Dávid
1:13:54
show up and let you get back to designing more uh decks for for Star Trek or or other things that you may be
1:14:01
doing but no it's been a real pleasure to to chat with you tonight and you know as we said at the start you know you've
1:14:06
designed some of our favorite games that still hit our tables so we really really appreciate you you coming on the show
1:14:13
and thank you very much sir yeah AC is my number one game so thank you David
1:14:18
really appreciate it he's good at it as well that's the annoy very happy to hear now go play vo for them yeah to be fair
1:14:25
oh we were just chatting off camera before we came on that I need to give it more tries I've only played it three times bloody great bloody great the
1:14:33
classics come back when you're at 50 thank you very
TURN 5 - The Final Turn
1:14:44
much thanks for listening to the show it's been awesome to catch up with David and learn more about Star Trek captain's
1:14:50
chair if you want to get more information then please check out our show notes but we just want to thank everyone for listening and obviously you
1:14:57
enjoyed this episode please share it with your gaming group share it with your friends because every share always
1:15:02
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1:15:08
oneoff or even on a monthly subscription we'd love that that's the reason why we can level up our sound game and just
1:15:13
invest it all back into the show to make it even better for you guys so we'll be back again next time with some more
1:15:19
board gaming content and the anything to say is whose turn is it Anyway I think
1:15:24
it's day it turn
1:15:31
[Music] [Applause]