JP: 0:27

Welcome to Whose turn is it anyway your board gaming podcast that takes our listeners and centres them directly within our gaming group. I'm joined by Davey and Adrian, where we journey into the Lacerdaverse to chat about discovery of Vital Lacerda's Deluxe games published by Eagle Gryphon games. How are we doing gents?

Davey: 0:42

So, right. Oh, got a little story. So are we? Yeah, why not? I'm gonna jump into it. So we played Lisboa the other day. Yeah, yeah. Friday the 13th Yeah, yeah. So I get home. And I think oh, yes, that was a good game. Open the door. Down into water. Yeah. In my house, so walk in, go around the corner and the tap is just fully on and it's filled up the sink and it's gone everywhere. First thing do you do? You're just like, Oh my god. So I call my partner down. She's like, Oh my god, I swear I turned the tap off. But anyway, worked out. What happened is my dishwasher popped open. That book on the shelf had fallen off, hit our draining board, which has a tray on it and had a pan in it. The Pan flew off, hit the tap as it fell down, and then hit the plug. So it plugged the sink and it turned on. My Mrs. had a migrane at nine o'clock, So went the bed but luckily a dishwasher popped over about 10 We got back about 11 So the rest of my evening was easily wetback because there was literally an inch of water all down the bottom of my house. Friday the 13th Why not? So that's that was my weekend.

JP: 1:50

So basically it works with Lisboa because you were collecting which we'll talk about later.

Davey: 1:57

Yeah, no, that's what I was having to do. Some funding and

JP: 2:01

basically what happened is like there's videos you see on Tik Tok or social media.

Davey: 2:06

It's mousetrap von Neumann real life, von Neumann machine. Anyway, it was like Final Destination there's anything else remember? That I feel it was like the final destination of my house, that no one died is that no one put the plug

Adrian: 2:18

When you said it put the plug in. I was like wait, what? Yeah. Electric plug

JP: 2:26

Put the toater on, put some bread in

Davey: 2:28

Wow. Yeah, that the toaster falls off and it's electric. It's a floor that would have been proper final destination. But yeah, yeah. I'll get a genuine reaction from you to tell me tell you on the podcast. Oh, wow. Yeah, that was, so I'm alright. Right. But that was a fun weekend.

JP: 2:45

That's weird like, Oh, Jesus. Yeah. What the hell's going? Yeah,

Davey: 2:48

So I was up till about 3 just hoovering water up. Yeah, just kind of waiting around. It was It was strange. Thanks for sharing.

JP: 2:56

Thats right. Yeah, generally. Wow.

Davey: 2:58

That was that was my Yeah. Oh, my good, but did happen at the weekend strike after leaving here.

JP: 3:04

How about you Adrian? Not seen or heard from you for a while

Adrian: 3:08

On the podcast? Certainly. Yeah. And even over Christmas from the group, I sort of just took a bit of a break. I didn't do a lot of gaming and just sort of relaxed and which is cool, which is good. And changing the back bedrooms. The back bedroom had like a little desk in it before. And like a load of like bookcases and that I just never used. Yeah, so I'm now turning that into essentially like a three and a half metre wide desk that's going to be split up into three parts. She includes like Hobby space for doing Warhammer painting, and all that kind of stuff. So I'm literally midway through that. So my house is a mess, because you kind of have in order to get out to get everything out. Yeah, piled up everywhere. Yes, I can do that. But yeah, I'm looking forward to that being finished. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Nice. Well, good. Give me a nice space to work in.

JP: 3:51

Nicely done cool myself. Yeah, nothing to report boring stuff. Really? Honestly, I haven't thought this far ahead in the episodes. Think of an anecdote. You've thrown me off guard. But yeah, honestly, it's been games, games, games, games and more games. Yeah, that's for me. I'm happy.

Davey: 4:09

That's life.

JP: 4:12

That's playing some game. Yeah. Anyway, should we talk about the games Yeah. Now we get to our second turn when we talk about hex and all the games we played. So who's coming up first, who's going? Adrian

Adrian: 4:32

Go on, I'll go first. So I'll talk about Castles of Burgundy. So at Gridcon played the first game of it. That was what October November? November November, wasn't it? Yeah, I've played six games of it since then.

Davey: 4:48

It's you even own the game, or you own it.

Adrian: 4:55

The component quality isn't exactly great. What version are you playing? Because there's quite good anniversary. One one that comes in the actual nice burgundy. Like with the keys are the keys on the front and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, so obviously game fans got the version on there that might be getting a late backing sing

JP: 5:12

About age and we know you're gonna do it. We know that's happening. Yeah,

Adrian: 5:16

it's it's great game again, you roll two dice on your turn that allows you to take various actions, it gives you a little bit of sort of tax like quite tactical gameplay you got have a strategy long term that, that tactical gameplay, you're forced by the dice, but you've got the ability workers that can modify them up and down, is building out this duchy of like castles and mines and farms and all that lot. And everything scores you a little bit of points in a in a point salad style. Yeah, I'm just really enjoying it. It's it's a nice bit of strategy and tactical. And it's quite, there's a few tiles tough to explain, but it's a fairly easy teach. And you just kind of just, you know, you get used to it as you go along. Yeah, often your first few moves, they can lose you a few points. But normally, you've got bit of a hold of the game quite quickly. Your game that

Davey: 6:05

Sounds quite R&G based or random based? Yeah, it actually sounds quite fun. Like I like a bit of randomness anyway, I guess. But I don't know. Isn't this too random? And it seems like you're dictated by your dice throughout the game? Yeah, yeah.

Adrian: 6:18

Yes, you are. Absolutely. And you can. So there's routes in which you get loads of workers and the workers give you plus or minus once your dice and dice go round the corner. So from one to six, and six to one, yeah. So you can go really heavy on that. And it basically means it doesn't matter what you roll, you're going to be able to pick whatever you want. And you can kind of go down that route if you don't particularly like it, but it does cut off other avenues for you. A couple of times, I've just kind of almost not done workers and gone into the worker route, and just gone with whatever the dice tells me to go, basically and just pick and go and just make a strategy as you go along. And I've won using both both ways of playing. So yes, if you if you are totally against dice rolling, it probably isn't a game for you. But if you can stand the fact that it's dice rolling with some mitigation, then I think lots of people have tried it by now. But if you haven't, it's still worth a go because it just has that nice bit of long term strategy you get to build out you know, it's that nice thing of looking at a board that you've built out and you've added all your little hexes on and all that good stuff and yeah, yeah, just really enjoying at the moment.

Davey: 7:24

I'm really keen. Yeah, looking forward.

JP: 7:26

It's always been hailed as like a you know, one of the main classics and you know, probably held as a classic for a good reason. Because lots of people really love the game so I am dead on keen to give it a try and give it a whirl. I think I'd like it to be honest, I think

Davey: 7:43

Raiding the castles of Burgundy soon. Yeah,

JP: 7:45

Can't wait. If Adrian puts an event up and we can play

Davey: 7:49

Yeah, I'll go next. Well played Mansions literally yesterday, Mansions of Madness. I'm sure most people know what this is. But it's kind of an adventure game. Slightly kind of like dungeon crawler esque, I guess. And but you it's a current one. Usually. Someone goes insane but you just have to kind of explore find clues. Find out what's going on. There's lots of different scenarios, little story scenarios. And last time we did the Mesatonic university I think and from the offset, I just thought yeah, we're not doing this. This is not happening. stuff was going wrong. People break legs arms were getting ripped off like it was just absolutely chaos. I didn't move from my space because I was the only one with a gun for like ages because it's just coming at us. Shoot, just shoot me. This is all done around time. Tambo just the game seemed to pick on him somehow seemed to know he was weak and just smell his blood and we're just like any room Tambo was in it's like Monster. But yeah, we ended up coming out of the other side and it will kind of calm down and completed it and yeah, we won, which was surprising. Yeah. Yeah.

JP: 9:04

I mean, winning Mansions is quite hard to do. Yeah. Yeah, well,

Davey: 9:08

I went insane. And I picked the card up and it was just like, you have to end with a spell. Otherwise you lose. Even if everyone else wins. And I didn't have a spell. I was a dude with a gun. But there was at one point I was searching some books and I got this scroll and it was like plus one to your law and I just like oh, Tambo you know that spell you've got he's like oh, it's only one left. Isn't that great? Oh, yeah, but do you want me to damage just so you know. You need dead. Oh, yes. Good idea. Yes, I didn't say anything too, right. Yeah. So they're right at the end. I had my spell with what I want as well. Tambo had a weird one as he went insane. His was just agree with the person to your left for the whole game. Dangerous.

Adrian: 9:51

Something you're left I guess.

Davey: 9:52

Yeah. Yeah, yes. You Yeah. But no, it's real good fun. I do enjoy them. and yeah, just good laugh app really? Yeah. Not much else to say about it. Yeah.

JP: 10:05

Yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. So I'm going to talk about a game I played or kind of played on Sunday, which was Europa Universalis. So, Kerley had asked, basically for some help Kerley hates learning games, we know that this is least favourite thing to do that and punching. Luckily, Becky got to the box and organised it all before I'd even arrived. So I was quite, I was quite thankful. Thank you, Becky. Basically, we got there, we organised it, we set it up. So it took ages because we literally just reading from the rulebook and basically follows the flow

Davey: 10:38

I saw the flow chart

JP: 10:39

The flow chart, you saw 1 flowchart. The piece flow chart piece resolution flow chart, you haven't seen the battle flow chart and the various different spreadsheet tables in the rulebook, which is quite hefty. So so we've got a table packed it all out, watch the 50 minute video. Which by the you know, some of it was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And somebody was like, okay, yeah. So we got through that. And, and then we kind of literally just played around back and forth some actions and we was always planning to not do the whole game because

Davey: 11:15

Did you grab spatulas for the unit pushers? Yeah. Like kitchen, you tend to do it.

JP: 11:23

I didn't need it. Because it was literally just playing on the small map for those that don't know what Europa Universalis is it's basically a grand strategy, war game Civ like, heavy bastard of a game that's based on PC. I think it originated as a PC game. That a lot of people. Maybe a lot of people enjoy. I don't know, I've never played it.

Davey: 11:46

No. Yeah, it's probably good reviews. Yeah, it is known as like the flowchart of all the statistics.

JP: 11:56

Graph of games, the Warhammer of civilization game? Yeah, kind of Yeah. So yeah, so it's kind of based off of that, but they've done a board game adaptation. So clearly was always nervous about this, even when he backed it, and thinking, Oh, then FYI, I've done the right thing. And to be fair, it was a bit of a slog, to kind of get through it, and learn and try and understand it. But once we got through the steep kind of barrier, and it started to flow and make sense, I can see a lot of potential in, in actually in the game. And it's just one of them games, its niche. It's like you take the pie chart of our hobby, who's this game for? It's for a very tiny sliver of the economy, the hobbyist, so, but yeah, it's kinda like, you know, you got your map of Europe, you're playing, it's like England, Spain, France, into any other kind of European country roll in there. And you look at the menu of actions that you have, and they're broken down by like military actions, administrative actions, diplomacy actions, and your general actions. And then as minor actions, you can do any of those. And then you got cards that you can play actions of. And there's just symbols all over the place. But there's just so many things you do is basically a big sandbox, as you would expect this kind of game to be, you know, you can kind of tray, you can

Davey: 13:17

I can tell that they kept it true to the game as much as possible. Yeah, quite a hard task.

JP: 13:23

It's just it's very deep. But actually, we got to the end, even after all that hard slog, and I said, I could sit and play this. I could I could see as playing, that's gonna be the biggest thing, isn't it? The question is whether Kerley is going to keep it or not? Because he enjoyed it. I think he could see he knows he will enjoy the game. His challenge with it is will he get it to the table? Who will go along with the ride and learning it? And will it just be kind of Twilight Imperium epic game that we will out once every or twice a year? And will it be a bit of a get to relearn and come back to the table? So he's mulling it over

Davey: 14:04

I guess the other factor is also going to be AP in between, like, if people don't know the game, it's going to be very, very solid

JP: 14:11

Yeah. So everyone's got to kind of do their homework and approach this game.

Davey: 14:16

Can we come dressed as the leader or whatever, of the Nation?

JP: 14:21

I think that'll be encouraged. Yeah, just get into character.

Davey: 14:23

But to be fair, when

JP: 14:24

You do your actions quick, yeah. Like your actions are quick and they do it round. It's just didn't feel like it at the time because we were learning going well, I'm gonna do trade, how trade works. Yeah, I want to do declare war. How does that work again,

Davey: 14:39

We set up the projector up, but then I have like, all the actions that you can do, like projected on the wall.

Adrian: 14:44

Sounds like a plan

JP: 14:46

Player as it has all the stuff and I think it's just, it's a game that just needs learning. Like deeply and you need to put the homework in

Adrian: 14:55

And how many players is six, okay, because you will still get how deep it is. And then you say But that turns it round. And I was like, Well, are you going to spend most of your time thinking? If it's like three or four players or whatever, but if there's six players, by the time it gets back round to you again, most likely you've had a good long while to think about it. Yeah. That's what you're doing.

JP: 15:16

Well, yes, I will do declare peace. What's, how's that work? But now I kind of thought I'd walk into it and go, Yeah, God, this is too much. It is a lot. But I can see there's a lot of value underneath it. If people are willing to give it a go, because I'm rubbing my hands to get I think you'd enjoy it. Yeah, you. I think it'll scratch. Kind of that strategy itch that Wargaming it a little bit. Yeah.

Davey: 15:45

See the thing is, I like war games. But I don't necessarily always like the war element and war games, like, Yeah, well, how many? That's all it is. That's really coming for that's fine. But I also I like it when there's a lot of other options to win as well usually, like trade routes, diplomatic routes, and stuff like that, just so that if, if even if you're getting dominated, you can pivot and do something.

JP: 16:06

Yeah, that's how the game kind of works, because you have what's called, like player rounds and non player rounds. So non play round all the other kind of countries that are on on the board down players, and you can obviously start taking over, you know, treating them as a vassal state. Yeah, and lots of different things you can do in alliances with them. You can do like, arranged marriages, there all sorts of stuff going on. It's a Mad heavy game. Yeah. But it's got like a little tech tree. It's got a little missions. And that gives you a bit of strategy and guidance of this is what you should be doing if you're England. So again, yeah,

Davey: 16:43

It's not for everyone. Sounds right up my flowchart, but I'd give it a go. It's like the trees. Yeah, righ up my tree, but flow chart. Yeah, there we go.

JP: 16:57

So that's the games we play. Now going to talk about our main event, where we enter the Lacerdaverse talk about Vital Lacerda Deluxe box games. So who's Vital Lacerda? Well, I don't have the biography on him really no snippet from BoardGameGeek Oh, really, I can cheat but, but essentially, Vital Lacerda kind of got into designing board games around 2006. So we tried to basically go freelance at that time, and try to look at, basically board game design. And I think from that point on, he's been dabbling ever since. And he's pretty much a big name in our hobby right now. And has been for quite a few number of years, mainly because of the big Deluxe box games that he's been releasing every, what, 5/6/7/8 years, probably even more so. And they're kind of known for being heavy. Known for being very interesting. And I don't know if it's like a status thing. But like when you say I've played a Lacerda it's kind of like a tick box, right? In the hobby. We played a Lacerda, cool, we've played one, whether you like them or not, it's a different matter. And we'll talk about It's like the James Cameron of board games.

Adrian: 18:19

I think all designs a lot of designers have that. But because now a lot of Lacerda's games cost 100 pound yeah, there's like almost more gravitas put towards it because it is harder to find someone who's bought one where as you talk about Uwe or Feld, or anything like that, that you can get their games for, like £15/20 sometimes, whereas like, apart from some old like drivers edition of Kanban or whatever, all these games are 100 pounds.

Davey: 18:43

They're all worth that kind of money, though, because the production quality on them is just insane. Or the little wooden meeples are carved really nicely. Yeah, well, all the artworks, like really clean on the board. It's just you can see why they are priced. And he's

Adrian: 19:01

I'm not saying they're bad value. I'm just saying it reduces the field of people that are likely to have got it to

JP: 19:06

Accessibility. Yeah, definitely.

Davey: 19:08

I agree with that. I'll just I'll just also putting in the point that there are high quality they have a high quality production value is a premium.

JP: 19:17

Yeah, it's probably their premium games. And what you said about the quality that even just like the cardboard chips they use, like they're just they think everything's chunky, thick, good quality, and just a pleasure to bloody play, to be honest. So we been dabbling and discovering his his designs or his latest kind of designs, and we've kind of focused this episode purely on his Deluxe box games that Eagle Gryphon games produce, because we know that there are other ones that he's done, and some in the past that he's done that have been rebranded and re invigorated into these Deluxe box games. So we're just going to kind of focus the conversation on on those. The massive caveat for this episode is if you're listening and thinking you want a detailed strategic expose on all of his games, that's not

Adrian: 20:10

Maybe Davey a little bit.

JP: 20:13

But, you know, this is essentially, we were excited to start dabbling in his designs. And I think we've all got slightly different entry points in which we'll kind of talk about in the natural conversation. And I think we've all kind of been on our own journeys by going through those designs and plays and thought it'd be quite nice to round up our thoughts into this episode, and essentially talk about those games. So what we're gonna do is we're going to run through in release order of these Deluxe big box games, and literally just chat about them. Give them a brief synopsis of what the game is about the theme, and what you're trying to do what we're trying to achieve, and then chat about our experiences. It's as simple as that, right? We're gonna roll through and run off the answer is simple as well, it's as simple as the concept, or maybe not as the rule set. So the first one off, guys is The Gallerist, which was released in 2015, I believe. And actually, it's the one that only Adrian has played. So me and Davey are going to be quiet.

Davey: 21:16

I've watched a video on it. And I did. Wouldn't mind buying that, and Adrian was like Back Off!

JP: 21:25

Think it was a swift elbow to the ribs, no chance it's mine. Bye. So, Adrian, set the scene. What is The Gallerist? What's the vibe? What's the theme? What's all about?

Adrian: 21:37

So like, I think all of the last 30 games you've played it's four player, which I'm pretty sure they all are. I don't think we've seen more than four players. So

JP: 21:45

So players and always the same player colours I've noticed in the Eagle Gryphon, game version. It's got purplein, like it. You're vibing the purple, purple, orange, green and blue. I think they're the typical colours. Yeah, anyway,

Adrian: 22:00

Anyway, The Gallerist so you're all a, not museum, but art curator, you've all got your own little art gallery. And essentially, what you're trying to do is discover artists, and display the nicest set of artwork and sell some of the nicest artwork you can find out of your own. Sort of from your own artists and in your own gallery. Mechanically, how that works is there are four spaces and you have these, again, high quality think thick, chunky, sort of pawns that you put on the board in one of four spaces, and the spaces all kind of relate to different things, discovering an artist buying art, improving an artist's reputation, going to auctions and stuff like that all sort of general artsy sort of ideas. But the big thing is, is that if when you put your pawn there, someone else's pawn is there, you kind of move it to one side, and then put yours in the main spot. And when you finished your turn, someone else can spend their victory points their fame metre thing at the bottom, in order to follow that action and do that action himself. So some of his games, not all of them, but quite a lot of them have a follow action. And that's how that follow works. And you can, you have a few little meeples. And one of the actions they can do is if you leave a spot, you can put a little meeple in that, and it counts as being your space again, for moving aside. And it's it's fairly simple, because all you're really doing is trying to unlock some spaces in your art gallery, and then put the works of art in the four slots there sold them. And at the end of the game you want to have sold, whatever your secret objective is, and displaying whatever your secret objective is. Now there's few other things like again, you you spend tickets to pull different coloured meeples into your gallery. And they will increase either how much fame you get, I think it is or how much money you get. And so you can kind of manipulate how much money everyone is getting. And you can pull them out of other people's galleries as well. So you can kind of you know, reduce their value. Personally, I think it's the cleanest design I've played. There's no point in me hiding it is still my favourite Lacerda is the first one I played, played a grid column, fell in love, can't wait to play it again at some point, but it's a very clean game. It's got a lot those interlocking mechanisms of what I found someone so now, their artwork, as soon as I decide to buy one will cost the least like the lowest value, that entry point value, no matter how valuable they are. So you're kind of playing a lot of these interlocking mechanisms of trying to increase fame and buy at the right time and sell at the right time and sort of try not to give too much extra follow action to your opponents, which, you know, it's quite a common theme and

Davey: 24:44

Ebb and flow kind of thing. Yeah,

Adrian: 24:45

I think so. It's just for me, it was it's the cleanest design. It's got those interlocking mechanisms, but the rules overhead is probably one of the lowest of the ones we've played and that to me, I like anything that's got a nice clean, simple design set to it where it's not all that AND, OR, and all that kind of stuff in as few as little of that as possible. So yeah, I really enjoyed it. I think you guys will like it. I don't think it will hit the top of your lists. I think you've got other ones out there that are probably top of your list. But I certainly think you'll enjoy it. There's a It's not engine building as such, but it is kind of, you know, sort of buying cheap and selling high and then pushing those those levers to try and make that

Davey: 25:24

One market trading system instead. Yeah. Yeah. So

Adrian: 25:29

It's, it's not engine building in a true sense. But you are trying to manipulate the system in order to get the most out of it. And so there is that similar sort of thought process and tactical processes. Yeah.

JP: 25:40

So basically, art attack the board game. For our UK listeners, joking,

Adrian: 25:47

You do look a bit like that head statue.

Davey: 25:50

Oh, Neil Buchanan, but

JP: 25:53

I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take it. That's Art attack. That's a blast from the past.

Davey: 26:00

Yeah. I like the look of it. From what I saw. It did look, I think clean is the right word, waht Adrian used, compared to some of the others where you've got a bit more not convoluted, but you've got a lot more kind of options with the others. But I quite like to look at that. You know, I still like a medium to heavy game over just the

JP: 26:21

Yeah, I'm keen to play it. And it's hard to make any judgments for the game. I've never played it. I've seen it and watched a bit of a video because I think I was about to play it. Or maybe playing at Gridcon but the chance of playing Hoplomachus came up and I just couldn't turn it down. Yeah, so I was like, No, I'm gonna play that chips away chips away. And so we're just waiting for you to buy Adrian so we can play it.

Adrian: 26:47

It's on the list, Burgundy comes first. And the thing is, what I will also say is the board design is very clean as well. Yeah, they're they're very specific portions. The symbolism is what I'd say standard Eagle Gryphon games in the fact that it's pretty good. It's not always perfect, but it's pretty good. And the just the layout of the board is the simplest of all of the boards as well. It's kind of on a level with Vinhos. I think how clean on board design is. Yeah,

JP: 27:15

So Adrian's already said that it's his favourite. So that's why it's gone. So everything else we're going to talk about, we know it's not going to be The Gallerist in your opinion about our favourites, though. No, we haven't. No, there we go. So but yeah, we should definitely play we can obviously give our thoughts as we play in the future. And I don't, like none of us have got it in the group away. So it's just not been accessible to us to together. And to be fair, for me, there are other certain games that I wanted to try first that the themes either clicked with me more Yeah. Or I just felt they would suit me more. But who knows?

Adrian: 27:50

And again, this is the one that was top of my list. Yeah. So the fact that I like the fact that I like it the most is probably something to do with the fact that I looked at it and it clicked with me yeah, just watching playthroughs and all that lots. So

JP: 28:01

Which is how games kind of work? You don't know. No way. Cool. Let's move on to the next one. And

Davey: 28:06

Then the next we've on our list is Vinhos. It's a game about making wine and then going to a show with it and you've got certain scenarios that will kind of rate the wine or they've got certain tastes and they want the colour the value and region region and they you have to kind of make your wine to fit their criteria and then you buy vinyards go down to your little board you can get a farm which increases its value when it's produced you can get a seller which will increase the value can hold to be honest I didn't really enjoyed this one too much. It was good it just felt very felt a lot more linear than a lot of the the others that I enjoy there seem to be I mean this is one play for us this is my my obviously opinion of it and I'm giving it another go just to see because I won't just shun a game after one play.

JP: 29:15

Me neither. Lies, you lie. Food chain magnate.

Davey: 29:28

Game was so good.

JP: 29:29

Buy it then.

Davey: 29:31

No. It's too expensive for my blood. And yeah, it was everyone elseseemed to have fun with it. You enjoyed it more afterwards when you've thought about it.

Adrian: 29:44

In the moment, the bit that I didn't like was the so in the middle of the in the middle of the board, you've quadrille you've got nine boxes, and you kind of have to move from one to the other to take the action moving more costs you money and the more people there are costs your money and all that kind of stuff. And I found that quite restrictive the rest of the puzzle I really enjoyed. It was how like the the money and loans and all that kind of stuff actually, I thought worked really well along with the vineyards. And as you say, sort of upgrading everything. The selling to market took a little bit to get my head around, and I missed it a couple of rules at the start with that kind of money. The fair? Yeah, you're wise at the failure? Yeah. So it was some of that stuff, sort of in the first hole, there's only like, basically, three rounds of that isn't there. So in the first one, I totally missed a couple of rules. And it's sort of threw me a little bit, but that nine boxes in the middle is quite restrictive. And it threw me off completely while I was playing it, because all I could see was a reminds me of another one of his but all I could see was what I couldn't do that I wanted to do. Whereas other games of his where I've not been able to do something I've not gotten or I wish I was doing that. It felt like too much of the puzzle, it took like over took the rest of the puzzle, which is a shame. So I really enjoyed the rest of the puzzle. Mine boxes in the middle.

JP: 31:03

So that's right. Yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed the the quadrilles, they call it in the rulebook, it's that the puzzle of where everyone's going to and anticipate where people are going to go. So you can get in their way and get some form of passive income of where people are going. And yeah, just just the tightness of that was quite interesting. I'm not seeing a game. Do that in that way. And then have all of the various different options that just explode off off kind of the things that you can kind of do. But yeah, that's about I really liked.

Davey: 31:37

See, my biggest qualms with it was I built this nice engine, I had loads of why you did Yeah, I had loads of one, I was like, Yeah, pumping out loads of wine, or just, what can you do it? Oh, not much, really, you can get some things at the end, which we will take in turn with anyway. Okay, so I'm just left with loads of useless wine as such. It's

JP: 31:57

Not though because it's the barrels bear the and again, it's another bit of like about the game is when it's finished, like when you go through all of the round the main game, if you've got all the barrels out and produced on those experts, you then have all these supplementary actions that you can kind of do,

Davey: 32:16

But I was still quite limited where I could go by the time because a lot of it filled up by that time anyway. So it was just I know that's, that's a problem with my game and not understanding enough. But I just I prefer a more open game where I'm kind of given these tools, which I can then make my own and then do those things with a engine whereas I was limited for what I can then do. That's the only thing I can do with it. Even though it's a game about making wine. It's there's a lot more it pigeonholes you a lot more than it's definitely as other games. Definitely one of his most restrictive design. Yeah. Which some people enjoy, because there's a bit more bit more competition there. And I guess that's what it's meant to be focused on. Was that fair? That Wine Competition side of it rather than I'm just making a shit tonne of wine? drink my wine, please. Yeah, yeah. And to be fair, that game we want to get back to I'm gonna have that view set. And I'm going to obviously try and change my tactics and go in a different avenue and see how it plays. And maybe I'll find out enjoy it more. But it's one of those where I'm going to see what lies afterwards and yeah, give it a good go.

JP: 33:22

Yeah, we'll see about the night with that game that we played. There was a tight game. But even at the end, it was close. Yeah, there was

Davey: 33:29

Like we were four points in between first and last.

JP: 33:33

Yeah, maybe six. But either way. Three of us was one point apart each. Yeah. So trailing. But yeah, by two or something.

Adrian: 33:44

It was all our first game. We played that one, four of us around the table. So I'm sure again, points always increase after your first year,

JP: 33:51

Hopefully.

Adrian: 33:54

So I'm sure you guys will get this. I'm not playing that game that you guys are the next game. But same as I'm sure you guys will, hopefully see a bit more points increase in a bit more efficient use of your time. Yeah, yeah. Just to listen. Again, as we've kind of alluded to, for a lot of them. These are one or two play games that we've that we've had and we're just enjoying them and talking about and right so

JP: 34:16

Yeah, so yeah, that's that's been Yes. I don't think it's anybody's kind of favourite in this group.

Davey: 34:22

It's bottom for me and probably mid for you. Yeah, I'd say mid for me

Adrian: 34:26

Comfortably. I think it's comfortably the middle game. Yeah, maybe.

JP: 34:30

Okay, so let's talk about the next one. So Vinhos released 2016 onto Lisboa released 20 House flooding edition. That house flooded. Kitchen is miraculous book and pan. Plug sink thing. Still can't bloody believer that. I know. It's crazy anyway, Lisboa Lisboa. So Lisboa is essentially set in 1755. And there was a massive, catastrophic earthquake. Hit I don't know, in the nines on the Richter scale apparently is one of the kind of world's natural disasters that happened and literally lay waste to Lisbon in Portugal, and decimated the town and city. So the whole game is focused around that event and the aftermath, essentially of that event where you are playing noble kind of leaders helping to rebuild Lisboa, and utilising the various kind of damage and rubble from the earthquake fires and floods that had kind of ensued after the event, and basically build up the economy of Lisbon over large periods of time. And essentially, everyone describes this game as it's simple to place it in its premise, where you play a card and pick a card up. But anyone know a Lacerda game is never simple. And this one is pretty much one of his heaviest, I'll say, it's right up there. And essentially, that's all you're doing on your on your turn is you're playing a card, you're the plane into your portfolio, which is your kind of main player board. And that can either be tucked in at the top or bottom, I'm not going to go into an in depth rules, explanation, because we'll be here for about seven years at some point, yeah. But essentially, you're developing your business, you're gonna get some bonus of doing that. And then you can kind of sell your goods and resources to rebuilding the town, isn't it? Yeah, you kind of give them the give them to they basically try to sell them to ships get lots of money, and all training to nobles to do various different actions in the game. And then all you can kind of play the same card into the Royal Court, which is a place in the board where you can visit nobles, spend implements, and then do the big boy actions of constructing shops, open public buildings, which is how you score based on the shops that you kind of open, and also get decrees, which are like endgame gold cards that you collect throughout the game. And essentially, that's the premise. That's the theme. It's very blue. Like that, when you look at the board. There's a lot of blue in there, but anyone has kind of been to Portugal and Lisbon like I have. You'll know why. Because that's kind of how the city is with the tiles.

Davey: 37:13

I know the first thing I said when I saw it. Yeah, but it is suddenly had a bit of character to it. And I kind of, it just grew on me, maybe because of the game will say collect and Oh, this is actually really really enjoyable. But yeah, I think was actually quite a pretty board game by the end

JP: 37:33

Yeah, that's exactly how I see it. I mean, again, most of of it these games are designed by Ian O'Toole, which is probably worth a mention like, who is just the master in his craft now. Master in board game design, UX, user experience, and just the way things look and operate. And he just, he does more than the art right? He doesn't just do, I put the pictures on and off you go. He literally looks at the experience. And yeah, and where is this best place in your player boards? The tokens, the They make some nice player boards. Yeah, sure. Real nice icons, the look, play. We'll get on to that. Anyway, Lisboa is hands down for me. My favourite. Yeah, hands down, sets up there. For me. It's just elegant in the way that you play. It's essentially when you understand the rules and how it all connects together. I just love the system. I love how it connects, I can kind of see the paths in what I'm supposed to do how I'm gonna get the points the puzzle in the way. The right hand side of the board the city board is kind of lay down different streets of follow

Davey: 38:42

Follow actions, trying to work out what someone else is doing as well. That's that's a

JP: 38:47

That's a big one for me, that's like chef's kiss. Like understanding I want to do that action, which is like I don't know, the blue Action, the Prime Minister. But actually I think Tambo is going to do that action. So I'm gonna do something else and follow him and maybe get the best of both worlds,

Davey: 39:03

And I have the thing where I don't have to pay influence if I follow. So I was like, oh, it's more efficient. If someone else doesn't actually, I'd have to pay for it. And then no one does my action for ages. It's like

JP: 39:12

So you've got to pay attention to the board, you got to pay attention to what's going on. And there's a lot of interaction in this game, not just the follow but just even on that, that selling board

Davey: 39:23

Selling your your wares to people rocking up ships,

JP: 39:27

Ships, where you put public buildings and where you're open them isn't is a puzzle in itself. Do I try and set myself up for the future then other people might get in? Or do I get the shops down first and then score them all, but then someone might take my tile? Lots lots to go on. So Adrian's face, basically, yeah, you can't see Adrian he's disagreeing with absolutely everything I'm saying he sits on the polar opposite of this game. And so maybe you can put your counter and we'll just tell you wrong

Adrian: 39:59

I was aways raised if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. But then I grew up and I decided I'd say it anyway.

JP: 40:05

So this is important. This is why we were kind of discovering these games, is that not going to be for everybody? And that's kind of the point of the episode as well as that you might listen to what we're saying, Oh, that sounds interesting. Or you might go, no, maybe that isn't for me. And it's just good to have opposing opinions on this stuff, right? Because if we said we love everything all the time it's...

Adrian: 40:27

If you look at BGG, which is always skewed slightly heavy, but knowing that all of his games are heavy, it's what the second highest rated I think that in The Gallerist are very close together. And I think they're the furthest opposite parts of the Lacerdaverse, which is why I think they might be as high as they are, because everything else is a bit of a mix of those two ends of the game, or, yeah, but yeah, I found the board. I believe art is subjective. I found the little iconography that tells you what that section does. Tiny and misleading. I pretty much didn't like most of the symbology and the board design

Davey: 41:02

Symbology was hard to pick up I will say that it was really hard to determine what something did yeah, to start with once you knew you knew, and it kind of made sense, but there was no reference points on the board where you could keep referring back to the

Adrian: 41:18

Reference guide or whatever it was. Which the biggest I've ever seen player aid and yeah, I just the puzzle. There were little bits of it. I kind of liked and could see that there was a thing there. But the way it all clicked together. It's the first game I think I've ever played where I've finished the game of what a three hour game I still couldn't tell you what half of the points did off the top of my head. I always had to refer to the book for this does that or that does this it's just you know, I enjoy heavy games or not. I know you guys have like heavier you're probably at the furthest end of liking Epic Games. And this was well over the top for me by quite a stretch as well. And yeah, it just it might be one of my least favourite games I've played this year in all honesty really that that heavy. I played Revive and Barrage as well this year, so

Davey: 42:12

I love Barrage as well.

JP: 42:13

But no, look Lisboa for me loved it. Top Top game for me. Understand why it's not for everyone though? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely not. But yeah, sorry. Enjoyed it. Anyway, I could talk about that for another 17 hours, but Adrian will go home. So let's move on to the next game, which none of us have played. But we'll give an honourable mention, which is Escape Plan. 2019. Escape Plan is essentially a heist game, I believe, and war players members of a gang pulled off a heist, and you have stashed money based on your cut of the heist into various different kinds of buildings and locations around the city. And your job is to essentially recoup that money, avoid the cops and get the hell out of dodge, I think but it's a Lacerda game, so it's going to be a bit more complicated than that. Sure. For me, it's the one I'm not super keen to play. It's not the one that drives you know, think oh, I really, really really want to play it. I will absolutely play because I'm keen to try any of his designs out. But yeah, I like heist movies. Now that heist TV show, so I think it would actually speak to me, but I don't know. There's just something about the actual mechanics, mechanics or what I've seen that hasn't called to me. Yeah. However, I'm sure many of our listeners may have played it and think it's really good. I don't know. But that's all I know about the game. Anyone else want to add in anything about Escape Plan that you know? No, that's pretty much it is.

Adrian: 43:46

Watched half a playthrough.

Davey: 43:47

We will play it but we haven't yet.

JP: 43:49

Yeah. So apologies. So we're gonna skip skip on and move on to the next one. Adrian, released in 2020 I believe Kanban EV

Adrian: 43:59

so not originally released Yes, because there's two editions before it. But again, we're not doing anything outside of Eagle Gryphon games. And this is when it was released for Eagle Gryphon games and I will say they've done a fantastic job of giving it a glow up and making it look much lean, bigger game making it look more impressive on the tabletop as well. So the sales pitch on this one's probably the easiest. You run a car factory produced the best cars. That's pretty cool, isn't it?

JP: 44:28

So next?

Adrian: 44:31

Sales pitch on that one is the easiest you know you are in a car factory. So you're looking at blueprints you're looking at getting the parts you're looking at testing cars and manufacturing cars and all the time. She's not called Karen she's called Sally Sandra Sandra.

Davey: 44:47

She she she's well she can be sometimes it can be nice. The nice one only.

Adrian: 44:56

If you play that what's considered I think that the normal version which is me means I mean She'll follow you round each department? And if you're in the department when she gets there? Well, no, it's not if you're in what whoever's the lowest trained in that department? Yes. We'll take some kind of penalty.

JP: 45:13

Evaluate you.

Davey: 45:13

She whipped me all the Yes. Where the time I got weapon and

JP: 45:18

You still have the job at the end? No, no, yeah, she was like Davey I'm done this Davey, you're shit at getting parts

Davey: 45:24

She fancied me really, that's all. That was, like, it was like children at the school yard here, just stop it, give me Oh, yeah, I'm gonna whip you into shape.

JP: 45:33

Just your fantasy

Adrian: 45:36

Getting into weird territories now. So each department has two locations, I believe, maybe three years, it different the further down the location. So you run down the board from top to bottom, essentially. And you do each of those actions in turn. And in each department, if you've got the top one, you get to go first. But you have fewer action points, essentially, to do whatever you want to do. And, as always, there were loads of interlocking mechanisms, you've got some cars with car parts, and you put them on the board a certain way to get more of one or more of another. And the same with pushing cars through, there's this little sort of track of how you can push them through to get the right car colour out that you want and stuff like that. There's a whole range of different bits and pieces. And then the scoring the main scoring part is the board meeting, I'm going to call it Yeah.

JP: 46:27

Is that what it's called? Because that's what it's called. It's very cool. Yeah, very cool.

Adrian: 46:31

There's a board meeting, you get to put down certain, really, like this part actually did really like this, you get to put down certain secret objectives and put your little speech bubble on it, which you have to unlock more speech bubbles as you go. And there's public ones. And again, it'll be like if you've got the most designs, you've put it in here, you get three points for the most designs and stuff like that, or four times every design you've got or something along those lines. And so you're kind of playing this ultimate turn and try to block people, but also score the most points. And I've I personally really liked that part, because it is contentious, but it kind of the two contentious parts are the work placement, which is to be honest, a fairly standard worker placement affair. And then this little scoring bit and that's really where a lot of the contention came in. Yes, you could sort of manipulate where the cards were coming out and stuff like that, but that's where the two main bits sat for me. And yeah, I really enjoyed this.

JP: 47:29

I quite like just the thematics of the board meeting which is basically you just bragging how amazing you are. You're going yes I did really well Sandra I did all these designs and I'm amazing kind of a promotion. And then because yes you are have lots of victory points

Adrian: 47:44

And someone else because I'm a bit amazing to even have half as

JP: 47:47

Yeah, stuff brown nosing

Davey: 47:50

Make it safe. For this one. I think it was a better game of Vinhos. So I think it sits above what I had a worse time than Vinhos you had a rough time. And I felt like I was constantly just treading water with it. And just like I would like suddenly break the surface get go there then just just like sanded down. Why? So like, it's just, it's very punishing, I made one mistake at the start before it clicked and then I was chasing because you can't go obviously you can't go in the same space signs or blocks of space. And then everyone goes and there was we were playing for player wasn't much left. And I felt like I was always just kind of trailing with my actions and just never being able to catch up to everyone and it felt bad because at the start I had already seen my mistake and I knew it was going to cost me and I already knew I'd lost the game pretty much because I was always just like two steps behind everyone and in a work replacement that's this kind of fine that's that's costly. Again, you know, you've been in so inefficient that Sandra's now been following me around, I kept she kept landing on the same space as me because I had nowhere else to go. I was like, why I do that really inefficient thing, or I didn't get with it or lose VPS?

Adrian: 49:07

Yeah, so what I will say is there's a manipulation. So Sandra will go down to the next available department. So if everyone books up the spaces, she can't go there and she goes to the next one. And there was quite a few times where people went, Oh, we can do Davey over, and that's not gonna lie I did a couple of times as well, as I'll show skip this department where I've not got a lot of training. If I go here, I don't need to do the thing. But she skips the department. I don't take any like using points instead. And if it wasn't on purpose, it didn't go then it skips Daveys Yeah, but it was it now skips me, the one that the department I'm worse and goes to one where I'm a lot better at and so there is quite a lot of that there is I think as well as you kind of say work placement where you can block off spots, but I didn't feel it was as bad as for instance being hosts and Lisboa for that. Being able to block off spots and then totally shutting down your engine. Suddenly, kind of viewpoint, I know you found this one harder than Lisboa. But I found it kind of the

Davey: 50:05

I found it more punishing, and I found in my eyes Lisboa. If the game's more open, then you still got ways of pivoting the strategy and then building upon a strategy if something's then not working for you, whereas we're Kanban. They're, they're what's down is what you're scoring. And what's in your hand is what you're scoring. And there's not much wiggle room in between other than scoring, the cards may be coming up, but then I can't do that. Because blocked off is part of

JP: 50:32

That's the game, though, isn't it? Yeah, you're going to have those, those turns, you just can't avoid it. Because if people are going into the spaces you want to go to? Well, that's, that's it. And if you really want to do the action, you've got to sacrifice you're kind of first choosing of where you want to go next time.

Davey: 50:49

It would have been nice if at least with Lisboa you've got follow action, so you can kind of make up whereas Kanban doesn't have that. There's no no, there's no follow action. And there's no for me, there was no like, way of me ever catching up. And I just didn't I didn't know either as a mechanic personally, but I will play again, obviously, until it goes and I enjoyed it.

JP: 51:10

I think I have some nice mechanics in it. Not my favourite. I was expecting it to probably be right up there to be honest when I played it, but it wasn't. But I still think it's good, still enjoy the play.

Davey: 51:23

And I still think it's a better game than Vinhos, even though I didn't enjoy it as On Mars 2020, the basic concept of On Mars is you've got to colonise Mars, but you're making these complexes which are churning out plants, there's water, there's all sort of just general mining or, and there's oxygen. And these resources out and, and batteries. And these, these resources will get you lots of different things. The main action system of the game is you've got in space, and then you've got on Mars, and you've got the shuttle that goes over. And you can kind of board the shuttles that go over and do these actions which give you certain bonuses, or you can stay where you are and do these other actions. But you have to wait till the shuttle comes back. There's other ways of getting back over. But usually that will cost you VPS. So it's got this real nice like tight little system of planning your actions ahead, you then have to plan of actually, it's better to stay here because everyone else's buggering off, which means I can I've got more options here. You build the buildings, which then go out on the board. And then you can build advanced buildings on top of that, which give you a little powers. So you can build as little engine up, which I thought was going to be more. But it's actually you don't have to do it. But it does obviously benefits you if you do because there's a lot of VPs and other things in it. But you could have a different game planning and building a complexes and doing your research you don't necessarily always need. It's good to have a couple obviously, but these advanced buildings, and it's obviously another strategy build load of them. But yeah, and then there's certain objectives which are done on this track. And this reminds me of the Lisboa building system where if you build certain buildings out and you put your cube out, it goes up and you score points. But it just to me, it's it's a completely different puzzle and a lot of aspects. But it had a similar complexity. And it was quite intrinsic with kind of planning on what buildings you want to build. And when you want to get it out and kind of the timings of getting those VPS

JP: 53:30

You got that life support system or the LSS. Right. So the LSS is always saying we need we need some plan buildings, we need oxygen we need this than the other and that's kind of what you do collectively around the group to to basically contribute towards the life support system. So basically increase increases level

Davey: 53:48

Which means you get better buildings and everything starts replenishing. And it basically means that if you just build loads of plants, buildings out there and complexes, yeah, okay, you bought a load of them. You're not really getting anything for a victory point wise. You have to spread your load but you have to spread your

Adrian: 54:08

Diversify your your portfolio. Yeah, yeah.

JP: 54:14

Yes. Yeah.

Davey: 54:15

So yeah. And there is literally, like oh, here's what these actions do what you want and you're just like, Oh my God, but I really liked the puzzle in it and the board level contention and you can only build where your robots are and you have to like move them over you start shoving yourself often to peoples and territories because when you build a building doesn't mean it's yours. Someone else can build another, it's not until you build the advanced building on it that you've claimed it so yeah, and the VP scoring for the scientists which come out and means you can do your secondary actions for free or use other people's but then they get to use it for free. Just I found a really nice and I quite liked the the puzzle and I don't know what it is. There's something about it that just really clicked with me.

JP: 55:00

So this was my first Lacerda game. So I'm I've been wanting to play this one for a long, long time. Because you know, I like Mars. I like space things. So I like any kind of Mars in game. And yeah just always liked the look of it and Kerley ended up getting the Kickstarter with the expansion the alien invasion expansion, which none of us have played so we won't even bother talking about but the yeah that was my my first play and I absolutely fell in love with it absolutely thought oh my god this amazing and the player boards held not gonna lie. I'm a sucker for a player board, we'll talk about the the next game which has some very sexy player boards in it. But I just looked and thought brilliant, like everything about the whole system. I love the shuttle aspect that that's so interesting

Adrian: 55:57

It is very interesting. The interesting part is because I've seen sort of not the same that seen similar mechanisms before. But the fact that the shuttle gets shipped basically slower, you go backwards and forwards. If you've made a mistake in your plan is quite punishing, because you then have to spend if you go back to space, for instance, you have to spend three turns potentially in space is going on you needed to spend a thing and then you come back

JP: 56:23

Or do that crap action, which is I just go and do a escape pod. Yeah. To Mars, which no one ever going to do one way though. So anyone mind? Yeah,

Adrian: 56:30

But yeah, so that's it's definitely the crux of a large portion of the strategy of that game. Yeah. Is that shuttle action? It's very interesting. Very interesting.

JP: 56:42

Yeah. So no, I, I loved it. And essentially, Kerley, who isn't on this episode, because he did not like it. And I think his challenge with it was issue with it, is it possibly too Sandboxie. And actually, his decision space is so wide, he just didn't know. He's kind of paralysed by which way to go. And what was the best thing to do?

Davey: 57:04

He hates that. Paralysis. And when he gets it himself, it's infuriating.

JP: 57:09

So you get got to the point where he's just not enjoying this game. And I bought it off and yeah, very happily bought it off. I'm glad you did. Yeah. Because I loved it. So Adrian, your thoughts?

Adrian: 57:21

Yeah, it's not one of my favourites by a longshot. There are some really nice parts on this. I think the board design is actually cleaner than I thought it would be when I first looked at it, considering that there's not a lot of iconography in that on it. Compared to some games, I thought, Oh, this looks a bit messy. But actually, it was a very clean board state, the shuttle was quite interesting. I'm not a big fan of area control, and that kind of thing. So while I like things like Quadropolis, and Suburbia, which is you know, like that city builder type, there's a bit more as you say, with the robots and how far you can build away and like,

Davey: 57:56

I wouldn't even say it's area control, though, in a lot. He has elements as elements, but it's not going to be how you score later. Really?

Adrian: 58:07

through the game. Yeah. So you've kind of watched it develop to that state. So it's not the worst sin sort of thing that you could commit. But I didn't the scientists and the buildings to the side, were nowhere near as powerful as they seem. But then you had the scoring, which I just, that bit totally didn't, didn't sit well with me. And as you say, it's a sandbox, but it's a sandbox, I can't see myself wanting to visit five or six times, which I think is where you get the value for that game. Yeah. 100%. So

Davey: 58:47

I've played this one the most actually ever. No, I've played this about four times,

JP: 58:51

Maybe more, maybe more fun

Adrian: 58:53

So I think if you're going to be someone who wants to who likes it in the first couple of plays, and you think I'm gonna play this a lot, I think you're gonna get a real tonne of value out of this and this I think this is why it has this one feels like the one that has the most cult following whenever you talk to people, but I just can't see myself it's not enticing enough puzzle for me to one visit it four or five times. I just can't see myself wanting to invest enough time to really because if I play it another time, I don't feel like I'm gonna be any further along than the first time you're going to be four or five games in before I started really click with this puzzle. And I don't know if I'm going to enjoy it as much as 90% of the rest of my collection by the time I guess so. Yeah. That's, again, personal opinions, personal thought. Okay,

JP: 59:38

So let's finish talking about On Mars and let's talk about the next one. I'm actually gonna say Adrian, you do this one because you've got a nice little story that's associated with this game, and I just want you to do it. Well.

Adrian: 59:50

I won it! It's Weather Machines Yeah, so yes, so I just played The Gallerist at Gridcon. I had the biggest grin on my face

JP: 1:00:01

It was the happiest I've ever seen him.

Adrian: 1:00:03

And was just, you know, when you when you've got a lot of anticipation for a game, and when it turns out as good as you expect, it doesn't always happen. We're now at the point in gaming where you have high expectations, it's not always met, right? In fact, perhaps more often than not, it's not met because you've built it up so much. But for a previous episode, where he I built it up a lot, and then it turned out exactly as wonderful as I thought it was gonna be right. So I played The Gallerist. And then I was sat playing Castles of Burgundy when they do the raffle. And last one on the list, Adian's won. It will be whatever little games because it's bottom of the list. Oh, no, here comes Weather Machine signed by the man himself. But what is it so essentially, Lativ has, the scientist has built a machine to improve weather and to control the weather. Unfortunately, butterfly wing effect, it's making the weather worse elsewhere. And so you're you're the board's kind of divided into three things, which are the three things that you as your little scientist group are trying to do. One is assisting the government in building their machines to support with the weather. One is basically trial the Lativ's machine and see if you can make it work and test it. And then the other one is counteracting the bad weather and calming it down. Not quite sure how you're supposed to do that. But it is there on the board. And it's a thing you do. It's a worker placement. And it has that thing of wherever you go, however many people to the left of you on that spot, you gain extra resources. So for me, personally, it's one of the games that gives you the most for contested spots. So if you can get there, and you can place your worker anywhere on the spot, so if your first one, they tend to go to the furthest right spot, so you're not giving people loads of stuff, but everyone has to move around the board. So at some point, you'll end up with two people on the left spots of you, you'll end up with loads of vouchers, but loads of resources. And then in each spot, you're going to do something as well as your own little player board, which builds the machine. So what you're essentially trying to do is build this machine out of yours, with the different cogs and chemicals and robots, which also unlock some abilities and some goodies as you go. And then you're trying to research papers, using your bots and chemicals and bits and pieces that you're kind of building in this machine to then build the machine bigger and also to score victory points by running the correct weather machines. It's a tough game to explain. I think it really is

JP: 1:02:34

You did well, I think

Adrian: 1:02:36

Because it's the most obtuse and weird of the ideas that he's had. Now, I think he does a great job of it. I have seen talk out there that maybe it's a bit obscure, and I can totally get on board with that. Because it is and the teach of it is also quite a tough teach, I think,

Davey: 1:02:54

Yeah, it's because the one video of what the hell is going on here, really. And then when you did the teach of it, it made sense. And it clicks. And I think the reason why you're going to be fixing the weather is because you've previously made weather machine all that weather. Oh, yeah,

Adrian: 1:03:13

I agree. But how are you fixing it apart from running the machine, but you're not running the machine for that whether you're just fixing the weather somehow.

Davey: 1:03:20

I think you're you've already built the Machine now from your previous

JP: 1:03:24

You're running the existing weather machine that Lativ built to learn more about how it works in order to get the papers published to fix it. Yeah, I think that's the that's the thematic

Adrian: 1:03:35

So I suppose that's the point isn't it is yeah, most of your victory points come from researching papers, and then performing whatever it's called a dissertation of some description, like when you've got three different papers have the different colours on it.

JP: 1:03:49

Some

Davey: 1:03:49

Academics, like that paper side of things now little, the little right combinations in the books and then you, it was just it was so nice. I think this is my favourite said

Adrian: 1:04:00

Oh, really? Yeah. So it's up there for me definitely. But it's as I've sort of already already alluded to, it's not it's not my favourite, but I think mechanically, and purely mechanically, ironically, for a machinist or weather machine. I think this is the nicest meshing of rules in one of these complex overlapping games of his for me, I think it's now explaining it and sort of trying to put a theory and a reason to it is probably one of the more difficult ones but I think the way everything slots together and the way you score points with these cards and what they're called now they're like income markers that allow you to then take your personal goals and slot them on the board and turn them over all of that stuff. And as you say the player board is probably the nicest as the player boards. All of that stuff meshes together really well and ends with a nice satisfying experience. Personally, I think there is some design, I think the way that they've labelled and designed each section to show you what everything does is pretty good because it is probably the most steps of each section.

JP: 1:05:02

One actually 17 steps. Yeah.

Adrian: 1:05:05

But they've made it nice and chunky on the board so you can see what everything does. But yeah, I think

Davey: 1:05:14

It was the most combo heavy for me, it was a lot of you could do this. And then all I'm doing this during this one, I spend this to then do this action. And I was just like, what, five things in this one miniscule action kind of thing? Maybe not five, but it just felt

Adrian: 1:05:28

You can get to three easily. Yeah,

JP: 1:05:30

Do you do with the left side the right side of a place and then do release a robot and then do another.

Davey: 1:05:40

Even though though like someone goes someone you think I have screwed up my whole plan. You there was a lot of thinking and being like, Oh, but I can still get a lot of points by doing this and get and there was just always avenues to go down. And there was it didn't. It wasn't the pigeonhole game of Kanban or or Vinhos it was just for me very open. And it felt like even though I cocked up like about four or five times here, it felt it didn't feel that punishing even because it was it there was always things to do, which was quite nice for your learning

Adrian: 1:06:11

Someone else gave you vouchers to go somewhere. So even if you didn't get much out of going there, you got vouchers.

JP: 1:06:19

So it was a setup, it felt

Adrian: 1:06:21

It felt more of a setup. I can go in here and I'm gonna get a rubbish return. I'm also getting more vouchers for the next one. Yeah, and if it's full up now, by the time it gets to you the likelihood is that spots not full up in kind of way that Kanban didn't do sometimes,

Davey: 1:06:34

And the warehouse was a lot more... it didn't feel such a waste of action to go there because you could build up everything and then go to the warehouse and then bang you have all your supplies back maybe you go to

Adrian: 1:06:45

The combos as well meant that you didn't spend resources so if something said as a combo you get to build a robot you didn't have to spend the resources to make the robot Yeah, which made the player now which made it like that combo thing of actually I want as many combos as I can off of one action because that one action cost me something all the combo stuff doesn't Yeah, and so you were looking for those combos and although it was put at, say a bit more obscure and a bit harder to teach. I felt that that one thing in your head that I need to get as much free stuff of every action gave you something to head for

Davey: 1:07:20

And if you don't have a strategy as such you can just do that and you just from being efficient you'll be getting

JP: 1:07:26

You'll see the opportunities Yeah No they just become things apparently yeah all set up for them but I think yeah the game in his collection that we probably all agree on Yeah, yeah. Bar Gallerist cos I've not played it, but I think there's Yeah, I think it's wonderful. I think it's I love the design of it I love the theme of it.Just such a pretty board. It's just bloody fun to play in the bit you haven't talked about which kind of broke me a little bit but it was great in a good way is the the tiles that you get on your board off to the right where you have to kind of build up the slots and sections for robots and chemicals and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, just like well I need to pull two tiles together to have a red slot so

Adrian: 1:08:11

yeah, just getting that right was a puzzle in itself

JP: 1:08:16

It was was quite interesting. And finally work with some

Adrian: 1:08:19

It wasn't quite free in the sense that it says any point you can rearrange it Yes. Which is very rare that you see those kinds of things as you collect it all and at any point you can rearrange it to make most of all the slots you've got and I thought that was pretty

Davey: 1:08:33

Like trying to have extra slots and moving things you could do that you can break it that you

JP: 1:08:37

You're flexible and what you store wherever Yeah, Weather Machine the one that we agree on. Yeah, I think like you were to summarise this kind of main event is that there's probably a Lacerda for everyone. And it's just finding out which one, I say everyone there's probably Lacerda for everyone who wants to play heavy games

Adrian: 1:09:01

yeah, I think that's the caveat right?

Davey: 1:09:02

Medium medium to heavy Euro I wouldn't even say it's not in the medium scale is towards the heavy really heavy

JP: 1:09:09

To very bloody very very heavy. And that's my point is that I think if you don't like one you might like another so don't write off like all of the his designs because you don't enjoy one of them.

Adrian: 1:09:21

I think you can say that about most designers in all honesty, but Yeah, certainly I think for sure, give it a go. If you like that medium heavy, sort of weight, give it a go and then chances are you've probably looked at it and gone. Oh, maybe. Maybe I'll give that a go.

Davey: 1:09:36

But when we say it's worth it,

JP: 1:09:37

I definitely think so. So to wrap this up. The last thing to mention is his upcoming game. Coming in crowdfunding, which is that Iventions Evolution of Ideas. Don't ask me what it is. I've not played it. All I know is that it's something to do with you kind of invent things on cards you then promoting the sharing those ideas around the world and kind of getting involved and getting intellectual points. Okay, that's all I know about if you tell if you're listening, let us know. Let us know more about the game. It's got some lovely looking player boards. Yeah, I'm not gonna lie.

Davey: 1:10:10

Sure the production qualities that's amazing. That is one thing you can agree on all of it and I've keep banging on about it but it's some of the best isn't is Yeah.

JP: 1:10:29

Okay, it's time for the listeners questions. So this time, we've got a question from Paul Richards, who's emailed in friend of the show, Paul. Hi, Paul, thanks for listening of course. So what is the oldest game that we've got in our collections that we still haven't played? And I'm gonna kind of add a little bit to this, because I don't have any. But it could be that you haven't played in ages. So what's the oldest game new collection you haven't played or really probably should just come back out because you've not touched before. Who wants to go. .

Davey: 1:11:00

I will if you want. I'm gonna say one, but it's probably not ever going to come back out. I think it's really good game. And I really enjoyed it. But there's a bit of drama that went around the game. Oh, Through the Ages? Oh, yeah. Because it's a good game. But there is a lot of little caveat rules. And there's a lot of AP with it. But it is a really solid game. And I do enjoy it as a little civilization game. And you know, you have to keep people happy and it's got really good mechanics in. But I do think, because I played on the app first. And that's obviously a lot more streamlined when you play on that. And then playing it even with three people seemed to take way too long

JP: 1:11:44

Way too long.

Davey: 1:11:45

It was definitely yeah,

JP: 1:11:47

It was through the ages ages.

Unknown: 1:11:48

Yeah, he had to go through.

JP: 1:11:50

I think I lost hair by the time I cameout the other end

Davey: 1:11:54

Kerley lost interest with it completely. And then that annoyed me. And so then I was just like, get out.

JP: 1:12:03

I didn't realise you were gonna bring this up on the podcast.

Davey: 1:12:06

We're both fine with it now, it's settled?

JP: 1:12:09

It caused a bit of a hoo-ha didn't it? Between you

Davey: 1:12:12

Yes, we Yeah. And I think it's just it was more I was enjoying it. But no one else really was. There's

JP: 1:12:18

There's a cloud over that. Yeah, I agree. But to be fair, like to round that off, for me, the digital versions better yeah, digital version, because it takes away all the admin

Davey: 1:12:30

All the crappy admin, which there is, no, I would agree with that. And I can understand completely why Kerley didn't enjoy it and wasn't enjoying it at time, you know.

JP: 1:12:38

But if you asked me what I'd rather play: Through the Ages or Civilization, and I'd play Civ, so it's kind of one of those.

Davey: 1:12:45

Yeah, definitely. But good, good game to bring up though. Yeah, it's

JP: 1:12:50

I'm going to be quick on one. So the game, I played all my collection, I haven't got got any. I'm quite fortunate. I don't have any shelf or shame or anything like game I'm going to talk about is Game of Thrones, which is actually I think, my oldest game. I actually went through my collection on BoardGameGeek just to try and get the years and work out what was the oldest game and I think that is 2011. And I just liked playing it. And I think yeah, got a taste to play it again. And I really want to play it just on the Westeros board. And leave Targaryen's out this time

Davey: 1:13:25

People have nearly fallen out over it as well.

Adrian: 1:13:28

But it's designed to do that,

JP: 1:13:31

Expected expected, I think he's encouraged more shouting swearing in that game. But yeah, we usually get that to table once a year. Don't we?

Davey: 1:13:39

I think when I first joined the group, you were talking about that game and someone flipped a chair, and got annoyed by it before I joined the group

JP: 1:13:47

No, we've not had that. No, no, we've got people pissed off. Yeah, but no one's

Davey: 1:13:55

It's like the step down from table flipping. Chair.

JP: 1:13:59

It's like, I don't want to flip the table because that's just rude. So I'll just do the chair. And then that's it. Yeah, no, no, no. But that's mine, what about you, Adrian?

Adrian: 1:14:09

Probably Nusfjord. So yeah, so this is my my plan last year was trying to visit as many of the big designers as possible. And at the very beginning of the year, in fact, it might be the year before that when I was first thinking of this idea. I was like I need to buy an Uwe game, and watched Paul Grogan thing on it looked amazing, thought absolutely going to get that and then every time I've gone to say to someone should we play that, I thought it's Icelandic fishermen in grey I want to play in fish share, like it's got stocks and shares

Davey: 1:14:44

Yeah, fish standard Uwe fashion. Yeah, I like it. It

Adrian: 1:14:47

It looks great. And I think I'll probably enjoy that. just But every time I've gone to teach I thought I don't know if I want to teach this game. And I don't know if it'll land with the people that I would normally first teach a first game to sort of thing So it's just kind of sat on my shelf and pretty much every time I've had more stuff on the shelf of shame, it's kind of being on top of it almost in just, oh, let's teach this instead. It's kind of stuck around there. It's been on the shelf 18 months easy. So yeah, like even now I'm looking at okay, maybe I should get Atiwa because I reckon that's probably a more palatable Uwe game and that's what I'd want to play. For this first one. I want to play one of the grid the polyomino games, because I've got Barenpark, and I love man. I don't see myself needing another polyomino.

Davey: 1:15:32

Feast for Odin was really good.

Adrian: 1:15:33

Yeah, I've watched that and thought that didn't look.

Davey: 1:15:36

It's really good. And then you break the puzzle. And then I was kind of bored of it. But it was good. they're obviously one low lands at Highland.

Adrian: 1:15:39

I'm wasn't bothered by that. And just same as I'm not really bothered by Agricola or Caverna in all honesty, really? So Lowlands was a movie inspired game that they put his name Yeah. So against. This is going to be a very Uwe style game. Okay. And yes, I looked at that for quite a while as well.

Davey: 1:16:01

Drowning sheep. Yeah. What else do you want from a board game?

Adrian: 1:16:05

I'm not sure that's what you're supposed...

JP: 1:16:06

I think you're supposed to save the sheep.

Davey: 1:16:08

No, no. There is a lot of drowning sheep. Yeah,

Adrian: 1:16:12

So yeah, that's been on the shelf of shame the longest.

Davey: 1:16:15

Yeah, well, sorry. I'll be up for playing that. I like Uwe games Yeah.

JP: 1:16:19

So yeah, so

Adrian: 1:16:20

Still no Uwe game for me.

JP: 1:16:22

Get it to the table. Yeah,

Davey: 1:16:24

Get it? Get it? Get it? Weather machine. Put it in.

JP: 1:16:29

Cool. Thank you, Paul. Thanks for the question. And keep them coming in. Which is cool. So now we're gonna get to the penultimate turn. We're going to talk about what's coming up what we're excited for. I'm gonna lead off on this. So I've just ordered Beyond The Sun. Oh, yeah. Yes. impulse. Impulse. Boo. Off we go. So yeah, Beyond The Sun is space, the exploration based off a big massive tech tree? Essentially, the game is you playing on the tech tree developing the tech trees you go. And I don't know, I just I think the expansion was announced this week. Last week this week. So

Adrian: 1:17:16

Announced a little bit longer ago, but they released on BoardGameGeek. They've only really mentioned anything about it recently.

JP: 1:17:22

So that's kind of went Oh, yeah, forgot about this game looked into the game starting videos. You know, it goes snowball effect. I like tech trees who doesn't like a tech tree? And yet looks like an interesting medium weight game puzzle. And, you know, probably not the most exciting of themes in terms of how it looks. It looks quite dry, but it's cool.

Davey: 1:17:45

I mean, theme's never really put us off before.

JP: 1:17:47

So we're just intrigued by it. Anyway, that's I'm really looking forward to getting that I'm hoping to maybe bring it along on the games day that we got on Sunday. So maybe we can give it a little Well, early doors will be good. Yeah. But yeah.

Adrian: 1:18:04

This is a tough one, because I've not got a lot of games booked in. So there's a lot going on at the moment. Nusfjord and Weather Machine right? That's already got a lot booked in. But I there was a game I picked up in one of the sales, which I'm kind of looking forward to. It's kind of been on my radar for a little while. It's just little to play game called Targi. Yes. So if you've not seen it before, you have three workers on a grid, where those workers...you get the bonuses for going right, like wherever it is around the edge. And then wherever those workers overlap, you also get those bonuses as well. And you can kind of block spots that people can't get the overlapping bonus that looks really interesting. It's something I picked up. It's been on my radar for a little while. And I've sort of and then turned up in a nice. So it's been sort of on my intrigue list for a little while it turned up in a sale. And I thought yeah, I'll give that. Buy that and hopefully give that a go in the next couple of weeks.

Davey: 1:19:01

Sounds good. Maybe I'm not talking about this because I think I have talked about it was the Dune expansion, Immortality. Yeah, I played it already. Yeah, but yeah, I've got that coming up, along with Darkest Dungeon we do a standard of playing Dune and then we play Darkest dungeon afterwards. But yeah, I've got that coming up. So that'd be good.

JP: 1:19:20

I really enjoy it. Yeah,

Davey: 1:19:23

It adds a very small amount. The the strategy has changed a little with you being able to graph cards because it obviously means you need a bit more of a drawer engine sometimes the draw cards have come a lot more and luckily on the graph cards and do have a draw card as well so but yeah, enough without being like too much is quite slight. Maybe I would have liked it a little bit more but it's not an expensive expansion is you know, it's just it adds on to the already playing game. So it's good fun.

JP: 1:19:55

Yeah, I got my first play of it coming up. So yeah, looking forward to that I

Davey: 1:19:58

I kind of step back cos I though, I'm playing it. Oh, yeah, so

JP: 1:20:01

I'll let someone else have a very gracious of you Davey. Yeah.

Davey: 1:20:05

That was too slow. No, too slow in the click. Yeah.

JP: 1:20:09

Yeah. Brilliant. Well, there we go got to the end. Yeah, we did it God. Sorry I'm tired now about all those heavy Lacerda games there's a lot.

Davey: 1:20:19

I coud easily play Weather Machine right now

JP: 1:20:19

That's true. Yeah, bring on this I do have to go but no no thanks for listening thanks for Yeah, entering into the Lacerdaverse with us and now it's time to kind of wrap up and and close the show. So yeah. If you want to get in contact with us our handles are our email which is players@whoseturn.co.uk you can get us on BoardGameGeek and you can check us out on

Facebook: 1:20:59

Whose turn is it anyway podcast. Instagram,@whoseturnpodcast and Tiktok@Whoseturnisitanyway, we'll be back again in two weeks with the next episode. So whose turn is it guys? Lacerda's turn. Lativ's