JP: 0:47

Welcome to whose turn is it anyway a podcast all about tabletop talk and topics. I'm JP and I'm joined by Becky.

Becky: 0:53

Hi everyone. I made everyone play and they loved it.

JP: 0:53

We're really excited to talk to Chris Priscott from You did, You did, but I really wanted to give it a go. Unfringed.co who’s designed the fantastic game Zuuli amazing can't wait really looking forward to chatting. Oh yeah, it's gonna be really awesome. I've had my kind of first taste of this at Gridcon. Yeah. And yeah, really pleased I did. So anyway, shall we not waste any time and go and meet Chris So we're joined today by Chris Prescott, who's from Unfringed.co and has designed the fantastic game Zuuli. So Chris, welcome to the show. It's great to have you.

Chris Priscott: 1:37

Thank you very much for having me

JP: 1:40

Yeah, awesome to get you spending some time with us. And we all appreciate and we got Becky here, obviously who's

Becky: 1:46

Everyone knows how much I rave about this game.

JP: 1:49

She's like your biggest Fan.

Becky: 1:50

It’s really great to finally meet you and see the face behind the cards.

JP: 1:53

I think you said if you do an episode with Chris and you pick anyone else but me, I'm gonna kill them.

Chris Priscott: 1:59

Yeah. I did realise because you're not first player anymore. Right. So I was like, is Becky gonna be on?

Becky: 2:05

I wouldn’t t have let anybody else through the door.

JP: 2:07

With the Expansion Packs, like all bets are off. Yeah. So yeah, we can kind of mix it up and do what we want. So so ya know, great to get you on the show, Chris. And I think for the benefit of the listeners, I know I've kind of spoiled a little bit of one of the games that you've designed. But yeah, if you could introduce yourself and tell everyone who you are. That'd be great.

Chris Priscott: 2:27

Yep. So yeah. Hello. I'm Chris, I guess a little intro to myself. So I grew up in Devon in the UK. My main day job is a software engineer. But I'm also a huge board game fan and have been for a long time different games. But yeah, always loved gaming of most kinds. But yeah, I guess most recently, I created designed and published my first game Zuuli last year. Well kickstarted last year. And yeah, have had an amazing response from the community this year. Yeah, and just started to fulfil its first expansion. This week, actually. Yeah,

JP: 3:10

Which Becky literally has in her hand

Becky: 3:12

I was very excited when it came through the letterbox I knew exactly what it was straightaway.

JP: 3:15

And was it today? Yesterday?

Becky: 3:17

Yesterday it arrived Yep.

Chris Priscott: 3:21

Which magnet did you get?

Becky: 3:22

Hippo

Chris Priscott: 3:24

Was that? Was that the preferred?

Becky: 3:26

Well, I mean, the hippo or the red panda. I'm guessing it probably was a red panda one maybe? Yeah, both of those are brilliant.

Chris Priscott: 3:33

I think there's already trades happening also. Got the hippo but wanted the red panda.

Becky: 3:39

I can I can well imagine I can when it says Becky going onto ebay right now

JP: 3:45

Gotta get this red panda. The most sought after item ever. But no, like, we always ask this question for our guests. And we always ask it actually for any kind of new players that come on to our podcast. But what is your favourite game? Always a hard one to answer. But if you had to pick your favourite game, what would it be?

Chris Priscott: 4:03

So it's one that I actually don't play much at all anymore. But it's had like a big impact on my life, I think and that is Magic the Gathering. So small game.

Becky: 4:17

Doesn't take over your life at all or...

Chris Priscott: 4:21

I mean, I have boxes under the bed of, of decks and decks and decks like it's yeah, it's bad, especially as I haven't played in probably three or four years now. But yeah, yeah. I mean, I grew up with it. Maybe 15 to 18 obsessed. We definitely didn't play it right then. But I was obsessed with, with the game, collecting the cards. So many things about it, I loved and yeah, and then another phase, I guess at my last job where we used to play at lunchtimes and probably for about four years they're even more hooked and even more money spent. But yeah, I think that has to be my favourite. Like, I think it ticks so many boxes for me that I don't think any other game has really ticked all of them. Yes,

JP: 5:13

I've never played is that was that bad. Like I've never actually played

Becky: 5:15

I have played but I had a deck curated for me. I had a littly Myr deck partially because in my complete normal style, I really liked the artwork and the Myrs were really cute. So yeah, I had a little Myr deck it was rubbish. I mean, I didn't ever win, but then when do I ever?

Chris Priscott: 5:33

it's one of those games, right. But I think it must be so hard for anyone interested nowadays to get into it because the learning curve is so steep, and they've tried to make it better with these kinds of intro packs and stuff. And I think that is, that is great. But then you go to Friday Night Magic, and then suddenly there's 1000 different keywords. And it's hard, but I mean, it's I think it's worth it. I definitely if there's any interest there always recommend people to invest the time to learn it. But like, yeah, it takes over your life, much like kind of Warhammer and this kind of stuff. It's I think it's a similar hobby in terms of the obsession, and the cost.

Becky: 6:12

Seems to it seems to sink its claws into people really quickly and very, very well. Yeah. My experience of it anyway.

JP: 6:20

Yeah. Great. Okay, so what games you're enjoying, like right now then. So obviously, Magic's been your favourite, you haven't played? You know, three or four years? What do you enjoy?

Chris Priscott: 6:30

So it's actually the one we played most me and my wife, Sophie played a lot recently, something I picked up at Essen. So I was very restrained. So this year, I actually brought done well, three games, I think, Oh, wow. One, and one of them be in Mind Bug. So I've heard of Mind Bug. Yeah. It's, I guess this has the kind of magic crossover because it's designed by Richard Garfield, who did one of the original designers of magic. And yeah, it's, it's, it's really got its hooks into us. Because it's, I guess it's a very simplified, magic esque game where you have monsters and you're battling each other. But the the really, the thing I love the most is that all of these creatures are ridiculously overpowered. You look at these cards, and then Magic the Gathering there would be banned straightaway, because they're silly. But you have these Mind Bugs that allow you to, you have two of them. And you can choose to steal an opponent's creature when they play it. You can only do that twice. So even though you have these kinds of insanely overpowered decks, timing that Mind Bug to take something that I guess it's more overpowered than your overpowered stuff, or gives you the advantage like it really it's pretty nice balancing mechanism. Yeah, and yeah, we're pretty hooked on that right now.

JP: 7:53

Yeah, sounds fun.

Becky: 7:54

Had you sort of researched it beforehand? Or did you just see it randomly and it sort of caught your attention? Or,

Chris Priscott: 8:00

I had a recommendation from someone at Essen, and I went along to try it out. But I didn't manage to, to give it a go. But I kind of saw the concept and I talked to the guy at the standard. I was like, you realise I mean, right? Yeah.

JP: 8:19

You know, when you know that? Yeah,

Chris Priscott: 8:20

Yeah, of course, I went expansion for the expansion.

Becky: 8:24

Oh, this is speaking JP's language. If there's an expansion, he will have it. Collect stuff. That's the hobby, isn't it? It's not just the the playing the games. It's the acquisition and the shiny version. And you know,

JP: 8:38

No matter if it's good or not expansion procured and in the collection. Yeah. So that.

Chris Priscott: 8:44

Something about these events, right? Like, you get all of these. I didn't know it was a thing, but people were issuing these like promo cards. So like, there was a promo card available there and stuff. So like, yeah, it's I can imagine all the events are on whether they're, I'm gonna go visit them and probably buy their next expansion and

Becky: 9:05

Catch them all. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Check that out. Yeah, I

JP: 9:13

Kerley might enjoy that then, cos he's ex-magic.

Becky: 9:15

Yeah, yeah, certainly was you know, really heavily into magic. Like, lots of people. Yeah. So I think that sounds like his sort of thing.

Chris Priscott: 9:23

Yeah, it's only two player, but it plays 15 minutes, 20 minutes, like, play a few games. And you don't need to build a tech because everyone shares the same deck. Like,

Becky: 9:33

Sounds like another one of my favourite games.

JP: 9:39

Excellent. Excellent. So let's, let's kind of move on to the the main topic then which is you Chris, it's all about you. So kind of what what, what was the genesis then with Unfringed like how did you? You know, coding one day, building lots of, you know, applications or websites or whatever you do in your work life and think you know what, I'm actually going to go and design something. How does it start? So,

Chris Priscott: 10:04

I guess Zuuli was not necessarily my first, kind of dipped into game design. Maybe a few years before the the I don't know how long ago now 10 years or so ago, like I did a little bit of Android development. made a couple of like little games on mobile. None of them particular too off, was a little bit of a hobby. And so, but I really got a kind of a buzz for doing that, and designing these kind of mechanics and stuff. And, and, and learning about how people play and kind of what is interesting for people and what keeps them hooked to the game and stuff. So. But yeah, it was actually was really, it was. When was it 2020? I think whenever I was locked in, I spent a lot of time playing video games, because there wasn't much else to do. And then I just decided that I mean, we played on board game arena, a fair amount. And I love drafting games. So Sushi Go, Draftosaurus, these kinds of games. But I wanted a little bit more from it. And yeah, and I guess I kind of had this idea kind of floating around. I'm a big animal lover. So yeah, kind of sketched out this idea. And there was never the intention to like to ever bring it to what it is now. I just spent the afternoon writing in my notepad, all of this stuff. And then same day, drew out on a piece of A4 paper, just the names of these animals, these enclosures. Yeah, and we played our first game, Sophie and I, and yeah, there was something that clicked then where it's like, you know what, this is actually quite, this has something to it, I'm enjoying playing this. And this is just like something that I've created straightaway. And yeah, it kind of exploded from there. I guess I kind of spent most of my afternoons and most of my evenings sorry. And weekends, hopefully, like thinking about cards and thinking about what I can take away to make it a smoother experience. Making print errors printing tiny, tiny little cards, obviously accidentally. Yeah, and then I guess it got to a point where I had a, they had a version that was that we were enjoying playing. And I thought, okay, let's, because I put all of this energy kind of in, Let's Kickstart it, let's see if people are interested in it. And then they were, and it kind of got it's kind of the ball is just kept rolling. I never had a grand plans, like it's gonna, I'm gonna make this game. I'm gonna get it International and all of this kind of just like, Okay, what's next? What's next?

Becky: 12:50

Snowball kind of effect

Chris Priscott: 12:53

I think that was the thing about, like, I guess it being a card game, is that you have that option a little bit. Because it's kind of lower cost. It's not as much of an investment to design. I mean, I don't know how these people design your games like it, it hurts my brain to think about what needs to go into balancing that and, and doing all this stuff. And, and the cost right to do it.

JP: 13:17

I mean, tell me about it, we play some heavy stuff, you know, we play some Vital Lacerda games, we play Mindclash games. And it just blows me away how somebody can create that. And actually, it'd be an enjoyable experience. Your brain is literally melting outside. How How are these guys like geniuses that seriously? Don't even contemplate that. But yeah, I'm always I'm always in awe of, of kind of designers in general, the fact that they've taken that idea and that concept and actually pushed it through into the product, real product so that you can get your hands on in the physical world in the physical space. And I just think that's something beautiful about that. Yeah, absolutely. I'm assuming that your background, Chris, with kind of software engineering is that you've got a very iterative and agile mindset in just, you know, doing a little bit, release, doing a little bit, release. Yeah. And, and that's kind of probably maybe how you approached this right? Just yeah, fine tuning.

Chris Priscott: 14:19

Yeah, okay. Yeah, exactly. And I think you're exactly right in that, like that design process. I mean, the original Zuuli plan... I mean, I have my note. I mean, it was pretty much now I think about it. It was almost designed in like Ark Nova. And then I realise, you know what, maybe Ark Nova is not a good game to design as my first game. So all of this breeding component and all of this stuff, which I jotted down, it's like, oh, this would be cool. kind of all came out. Because like you said, like, I got to that point, whereas I want to complete this whole cycle. So I want to take it from this initial design and at least get something that then sells, and then I'll have completed that cycle. Yeah. And yeah, and I guess that's kind of what's happened. Right. So like, I guess the first Zuuli edition was only a very small run of 500. As a kind of test for that right to see, do people like it? Yeah. And now we've orderd a larger run to hopefully be out soon This already happened. It's get checked off. Yes. All rolling kind of thing? Yeah, like you said.

Becky: 15:32

So it sounds like quite a lot of this, I could imagine you kind of drawing the cards out on pieces of paper and kind of using that as like a testing kind of thing. What was the most surprising thing about the process of getting Zuuli from that kind of little germ of an idea in your mind to an actual physical card? What what thing in the whole journey surprised

Chris Priscott: 15:48

That's a good question. I think it's a little you the most? bit like, so I love talking to people about, about subjects, which they're super passionate about. Because a lot of the time you realise a lot of these subjects appear like an iceberg. Because you only see a small part of this huge iceberg that's hidden under the water. And I think it's a little bit like with Zuuli. One thing I can think of is like, the cardstock, or what you want your cards to be made out. And I guess I went in naively to think, Well, I mean, it's a playing card, right? Like, make out cards. Yeah, I'll have 50 playing cards, and they'll go in a box, and they'll have a rules leaflet. And then when you realise when you're talking to these manufacturers and stuff to get quotes, like, I mean, they're full professionals, right? They need to know, the weight of the card, what finish you want, how many colours you're using, are you going to have bleed on your cards, all of this kind of stuff. So I mean, that was a huge, it's kind of like the iceberg under the water is that suddenly it's this huge world, which I didn't even know existed? Yeah. Which is fascinating. I mean, I found the whole process, an amazing learning experience to learn about all of those kinds of things and stuff.

JP: 17:09

So having played the game, Chris, and I actually played it, well, last weekend was my first ever play. And we, we promised and saidBecky, let's get some games as early in speaking with Chris, I cannot speak to Chris have never played this game, because that's just... you'd shoot me. So we had a game. And then we immediately played a second game and the third game and a fourth game, because obviously, it plays so quick. And, yeah, the one rule that I kind of wanted to dig into is, which wasn't in the rulebook, this wasn't explained thematically is what happens to those animals. What the animals that you don't fit in to the zoo

Chris Priscott: 17:47

Well, what doesn't happen to them as someone at UK Games Expo suggested, which is I should have some grinder, enclosure, where the animals get put in the grinder, that's definitely not what happened. I like to think they, they, I think, I tend to say they run away.

Becky: 18:09

That's what I was saying. I said, they just, you know, wander off, and they do their own thing. nothing bad happens to these animals. They're just minding their own business.

JP: 18:16

So for those that kind of, obviously don't know what we're talking about Zuuli, animals, and where do they go? Maybe that's a good segue into saying, what is Zuuli, for those who have never heard of this game? What is that?

Chris Priscott: 18:30

So Zuuli is a fierce and friendly card game. So the premise of Zuuli is you are collecting enclosures, animals and upgrades. And you are trying to build the highest scoring wildlife parks, you can. And how you do that is you have a couple of phases, you have a drafting phase, and you're both you're drafting all of those three types of cards. You take one, pass it on very simple draft. And then everyone develops their park together based on what cards they've collected. And they do that by placing their enclosures down. And then you figure out how to place what animals in what enclosure. And that's where the kind of puzzle solving or kind of crunchiness comes in. Because animals have different requirements. So there has to be enough space in the enclosure, there has to be the right habitat in the enclosure. And you have two types of animals first and friendly animals and friendly animals can be kept with any other friendly animals. And fierce animals can only be kept with fierce animals of the same name. And so you kind of you do this you place what animals you can, the animals run away, the ones you can't place, and you then score your park for that year, animals have different values. And yeah, you do that three times. So unlike some other drafting games, kind of like Sushi Go where you'd then clear the table and you'd go again, in zoo the, your park stays persistent. So in the second year, you do the same pick and pass phase you get more animals, more enclosures. And then you build on top of your existing park. And that can mean moving animals placing new upgrades in existing enclosures. And so you kind of You can maximise your points every year. So you can kind of invest in your future or you can go big at the beginning but then not have any space in future years.

Becky: 20:29

That's what always happens to me every time.

JP: 20:34

I get too greedy, and then someone gives me an elephant.

Becky: 20:36

Yeah. Yeah, Grizzly bears is what it was at the weekend. Grizzly bears just kept coming round.

JP: 20:46

Not in the grinder.

Chris Priscott: 20:48

Yeah, you tend to, like one of the fascinating things I found when watching early people play actually was that. So you have the elephant, which is like, I think the biggest animals still like six space. But it but it's worth five points. And actually, when you see a lot of more, I guess. People who are in the board gaming hobby have more new to the hobby, they tend to see that animal. It's like, oh, five points is the highest value animal. I kind of take it and then realised quite quickly that Oh, actually, I actually don't have anywhere for these .And yeah, like you said, like as you as you play a bit more, sometimes they end up doing leftover and so yeah, there's a lot of times when we play two player was maybe there's we both pass each other an elephant. Yeah. Last year the game. Yeah.

JP: 21:34

You know, it's coming. It's like who's gonna take this? I've not provisioned for this large animal. There you go. That's that's the rules teach, pretty much like

Becky: 21:45

That exact thing happened when I was I bought a copy for a friend of mine who listened to the podcast. So hi Noemi, if you're listening. She heard about it and thought it sounded amazing. So I bought her a copy. And I taught her how to play and yeah, we had big animals at the end. It's like, this is what happens. Yeah, yeah. Very excited about your lovely animals and realise Oh, there's no room.

Chris Priscott: 22:06

Yeah, yep. Yeah, this is where I guess, um, I don't know if you if you've played the expansion yet. But like with the hippo, it's it's a pretty big also with high points. But less easy to place, because it's fierce most of the time. But sometimes friendly Now,

JP: 22:25

depending on what your pair it with, what you do. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. So what's it been like, then, obviously, with you going through the whole kind of crowdfunding experience and getting the feedback that you have? I mean, that must be quite overwhelming. I say, because you've got people going, come on to the podcast, Chris, and talk to us about the game. And, and I know, I know, we're not your first and you've done a few already. And, yeah, what's that feel like, as a chap?

Chris Priscott: 22:52

It's extremely, extremely heartwarming, like, it really is. Even like, when the expansion has been getting out this week, seeing the posts of people posting it, and saying, like, they played their first game, and they really enjoyed it. Like, it makes all of the kinds of any lows that there are, and there are lows in that process, sometimes like it with anything, but it makes it all worth it. Like it's amazing to hear people talk positively about something you've you've created. Yeah, it's awesome. And especially like at the Games Expo, when we had people turn up and say like, they were recommended it by someone because they loved it. And they needed to come and play. So really. Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, it's hard to comprehend. But it's just extremely heartwarming. Yeah, I'm very thankful for like, all of those people, including yourself, enjoy it and have bought a copy. Yeah, it's awesome.

JP: 23:51

Well, the great thing was, is we played our game on the Saturday at Gridcon. And we had Rob, who also on the podcast, and I'd say more of a casual gamer than than some of us. Yeah, he literally went to the the retailer that was there and they had a bundle of copies. Ready to sell. He picked one up

Becky: 24:13

So they didn't have a bundle after we'd left. No. I bought two more and he bought another one.

JP: 24:19

Chris, we need to keep buying this. Yeah.

Becky: 24:23

Just I find it. It's just such a an easily accessible game. So my mother in law loves to play games. But I don't think she'd really enjoy the kind of crunchy level of some of the stuff. So you know, we took Zuuli round and she absolutely loved it. So I'm not going to be able to give her that for a Secret Santa because I didn't pick her as Secret Santa, but she's gonna have the game anyway

JP: 24:44

I think that's what surprised me with my first place. I didn't really know too much about it. I know Becky was kind of mentioning it but it's hard to comprehend a game sometimes until you get your hands on experience that the play of the game and, and it's as you said that that puzzle element of mean drafting's one of the most fun mechanics ever. Drafting in the game. It's always just fun because you go, I'm gonna pass you this.

Becky: 25:09

I want this and also, Haha!

JP: 25:12

Swearing and banter around the table. But when you've got that collection of cards, and then you're trying to go right how's this gonna work? Oh my god, what have I done? I miscalculated, and that that was the surprise. The bit I actually really, really kind of enjoyed and did not expect in that kind of weight of game. And, and that was why I kind of said let's play again,

Chris Priscott: 25:38

That's a lot of what like I guess I had two things going in for like the design that I wanted to hit and one was that is a kind of a game that is accessible to most people. But also has that strategy where more experienced gamers can pick it up and go, Oh, you know, what, actually, this can take some thinking about? And I'm not sure necessarily even though they have the top score here. And yeah, and I think whereas also for, for less experienced gamers, they enjoy that puzzle on the same kind of level. They're just not trying to optimise for the maximum score. So yeah, it's great to hear that it's ticked that box, because that was that was that was one of the things and also introducing drafting, because I did find that a lot of, I just love it isn't mechanic like you said, and any kind of simultaneous play, especially for people who aren't completely sold by board games. Yeah, yeah. When you're having to wait for your turn, sometimes that can put people off and being able to have that simultaneous play. And was such a cool mechanic. Yeah, I didn't know I wanted to introduce more people to that kind of thing.

JP: 26:51

Yeah, exactly. Because when you're trying to sort your enclosures out and your animals, your mind's got like in full on Active mode. Yeah, what everyone else is doing. Right? Make this work make this Yeah, we're gonna get this. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Priscott: 27:05

Oh wait, that can't go in there. Yeah. If I move this.

Becky: 27:09

And I love that part about it. It's really interesting you saying you're trying to appeal to the kind of both sides of the kind of board gaming sort of market. And I think the the kind of artwork really comes into that. So on your website, you say, don't let the sort of cutesy looks fool you. That this is this is an easy game, how deliberate was the kind of child friendly choice of art style?

Chris Priscott: 27:30

It was. It was definitely designed in a way that wouldn't necessarily be when you look at kind of a lot of board games, I guess. A lot of them kind of look kind of similar in style. I just, I wanted it to stand out as different because I guess if you're not already playing those games, then why would you pick up a small box game that kind of looks the same as that? Because you might think it's the same kind of thing. Yeah, and I think there has been, it kind of splits people, right. So some people think it's too. Not necessarily childish, but maybe a little bit too bright and too cheery. Even though there's the kind of puzzling element inside, but then again, they may. Yeah, I guess maybe then it's not necessarily the right game for them. But, but when they play it, sometimes they go Oh, actually, this is quite fun.

Becky: 28:24

Exactly. They're the kind of responses we've had and I love it.

JP: 28:27

You husband. Yeah. Yeah.

Becky: 28:29

He was gonna give it a go because I was gonna make him anyway. But his first opinion was like, Oh, this is going to be too easy or too lightweight. And then he actually, I mean, within the first round, he realised he could, you could instantly see but then he is like an efficiency machine person. So he could instantly see ah, yeah, I see how this is a this is a nice challenging, kind of, yeah, but he's easily accessible for someone who doesn't want to put that level of thinking in it, you can just pick the nice little animals that you like, and hopefully

Chris Priscott: 28:58

Still place them right. Yeah, and still get.

Becky: 29:01

Yeah, so I really like how this multi layered

JP: 29:03

But again, that's the surprise for me, so I can play that with my son. And he would have a good time getting animals and still probably laughing that he's given me the the elephant he could easily pick that up and, and have fun with it. And I could not go don't want to play this game. Because, you know, there are certain games that are played with my kids, because they're my kids. And you know, they want to have fun, but there's certain games that because when you're in the hobby as much as we are, sometimes you just have that moment of going. Really?, yes, this one I don't want this anymore. excite me. It's not fun anymore.

Chris Priscott: 29:42

Yeah, I think anything which is kind of that almost like 'take that' a lot of kids games seem to have like this kind of take that mechanic as well. Which can sometimes lead to these really long games where you know, I think like, you know, and I like you know, fun to play but like these games can go on for a long time. And if you don't have the right crowd if you make someone pick up 16 They don't have the best time playing that kind of game. So

JP: 30:06

With the wrong rules I might add, but the

Becky: 30:09

I play with those rules, too. Yeah. I like it when you double down double

JP: 30:15

Pick half the deck up with Uno

Chris Priscott: 30:20

It's not just house rules anymore is it's like country rules like that is the UK ruling. It's not what they say that the

JP: 30:29

What is tehe new meta of Uno? Yeah. When everyone thinks what

Becky: 30:33

I think I think it's a sort of speaks volumes about us as a country, like this is we like that kind of. Yeah, we like that like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Take that. No, no soft quarter here.

Chris Priscott: 30:45

Yeah. Yeah.

JP: 30:47

Yeah. Here's Chris thinking Zuuli, the punishing edition? Yeah. We have lots of take that now.

Becky: 30:55

What kind of expert tips can you give me to manage at some point to beat my husband at a game ever, but specifically Zuuli would be would be quite nice.

JP: 31:04

She need some insider info.

Becky: 31:05

I mean, I was going hard with the tree frogs. Vivarium kind of Yeah, you know,little zone. But now you got your red pandas kind of thrown in? And I think that might have to be my new....

Chris Priscott: 31:14

Yeah. So it's, it's hard to say with a new version, because with the expansion, you do have some very high. So for example, if you if you do get the red pandas, and you can expand a vivarium or open air island, you're looking at, like the highest point score out have anything, I think, I think, maybe someone find something higher. And even the hippos actually, if you put two hippos in the savanna, that's 10 points. That's 30 points across the whole game. So it's hard with the new one, I guess, with the old version. The tactic I always find is like, is known almost like the meta, kind of like magic, I guess is that if someone realises suddenly, a grizzly bear for Vivarium is a good combo. Yeah. Well, it's also a great combo is like for lions in a savanna. That's also very high scoring. And they don't want lions because it's, it's a fierce card, and it's gonna mess up because I picked the small closures. So yeah, I think typically, it's less. I mean, I get beaten by Sophie all the time. I'm not the best person to say. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but it's definitely like, it's almost like playing your opponent, which is harder to do in more than two player in two player definitely like playing your opponent as opposed to playing a necessary like fixed strategy.

Becky: 32:38

Yeah. Because he got 100, no 108. Last game. Yeah. Without the expansion? No, it was with the expansion. So yeah,

JP: 32:47

We're gonna have to stop being friends with him.

Chris Priscott: 32:52

Yeah, I think it's one of these. Yeah, it's one of those ones that it's, it's like the red panda. I love how it changes the game now. Because if you realise you have a red panda, but you don't want it because it's not worth very much on its own. But they already have one on the board, you can know that you're handing them a lot of points. Yeah. So you do kind of has maybe added a little bit of hate drafting ish to it. Yeah. But not so much. Because you can also get one hope that no one comes up.

JP: 33:19

Yeah, yeah. But it just makes you pay more attention to other people's enclosures, which is you should be doing anyway, right? Because, you know, like, we don't want to be passing you all these high scoring animals. And it's probably what I didn't do enough on my first game. So I was literally just trying to learn out how to not put animals in the fake grinder. Make the runvaway, shall we say? Interesting, interesting? Or will

Becky: 33:47

Will you do a sort of send in pictures of your custom card designs at some point, maybe on Instagram or on a website? Because I'd love to be able to get some ideas of, you know, so

Chris Priscott: 33:56

So there's a bunch on the Zuuli Facebook group, there's a bunch on there. And there was a thread started, I think on the Zuuli, like BoardGameGeek page. But I'm not sure how many populated but yeah, definitely, I should organise something more formal, so that people can post in because, yeah, I mean, some of the ideas are incredible, like some stuff that I never even thought about. Like for example, I think even today, there was a cheetah. And someone suggested the cheetah. And they said that it how it should score is that it has maybe a base value of one, one or two. But then every empty space in the enclosure adds one more point because cheetahs like to be in an enclosure with lots of space, like just stuff like that, which I hadn't even thought of. But I mean they haven't designed it yet, but I definitely encourage them to jot it down and one of their cards draw it out have a play see how it plays? Because I love seeing that kind of stuff. Yeah, so definitely I'll try and set up something more formal so people can share their ideas

JP: 34:56

It's a nice touch that put those those cards Yeah, go really have a go yourself. Put some things in other tests that we're playing. Yeah,

Becky: 35:04

That's the software designer in you isn't it? It's kind of ooh try this new little kind of tweaking system. Yeah.

Chris Priscott: 35:08

Yes, it definitely and I do need to find a way to maybe get more because I've had people ask like can I get some more because they want to add these more including they think One card is a little girl who saw that flamingos always hang out in fluxes, I think 77. And so therefore, we need 77 flamingos in the deck or whatever or there were 77 points or something like this. So yeah, yeah, I love that. I definitely like something I found people. I think of all of us as board gamers always think a little bit like, oh, like, this rule was slightly different than maybe this would be a bit more fun. Or if I could add this part to this game, then this would be really cool. So yeah, it was part of like, hopping onto that and letting people tweak the game, how they like and stuff.

JP: 35:59

Yeah, that's great. I think it's quite nice to say, look, I've created this baseline. And it's like, but now it's a sandbox, go and play go on to go and see what you can come up with. And, and then the community kind of takes the game on and doesn't Yeah, and, and that's how you kind of drive longevity in games is when the community and you'll know this being a magic player, by communities make the games. So yeah, you can kind of do that with Zuuli and especially like, making it really family friendly as well, and getting the family involved. And thenkids coming back from school, there are facts about the animals they've they've learned about, yeah, brilliant. How educational and bloody fun.

Chris Priscott: 36:38

I can play it with them and not be bored out of your mind.

JP: 36:43

Which is what is excellent. So what we've done, Chris is we've asked a few of the listeners to say, what do you want to ask Chris? Or what should we ask Chris? If when we get you on the show, and so one of them is actually from I think he came in on our Facebook page from favourite foe. What's next from the Zulli verse? And you're probably gonna say, I can't tell you because it's secret. What can you tell us if there's anything?

Chris Priscott: 37:09

Yeah, so I guess Hi, First, I know, favourite foe, so well. So next from. So I think the run up to Christmas is kind of decided it's fulfilling the mini expansion is, I think we're like 85% fulfilled, which is great already. And then the last bunch will go up before Christmas, hopefully. And then the second edition because the fastest edition has sold out. So I do have the second edition. But yeah, it's, it's requiring some admin work before I can release it. But fingers crossed. That's next week. And then I guess once it's released. Yeah, trying to get that to people before Christmas. It's getting a little bit late. But hopefully, it'll be good for like a little stocking filler or something. Yeah, I guess next. So I always wanted to do the expansion. And I'm very happy that that was kind of driven by the second edition, having space for more cards. And so then I took the opportunity to go, let's not just put promo cards in there. Let's make an actual kind of expansion than your animals. So I always wanted to do that. I think it's tricky and low numbers for like, another expansion. So hopefully this if the second edition sells well, then that's puts us in a good place to sell an expansion, another expansion, because I'd love to do I mean, I get ideas, like I said, from the community all the time. And there's so many animals with really cool mechanics that I could add and stuff. So yeah, I think there's nothing firmly planned, I have ideas jotted down that I could make. And maybe even some slightly less maybe like new animals, but maybe some kind of objectives that change each game. So this was also kind of a suggestion from someone that you could have. I don't know. Yeah, some goals, like you draw three cards. And those are your three goals. And maybe they add a few bonus points. And maybe if you're the first to achieve it, you get five and if you're the first person to achieve it, so so maybe something like that, which could add a little extra level on top. Yeah, I mean, I'd like to draw from magic as well. So I love all the magic cards for like, like that flip around. Or maybe you tick off bits down the side of the card. And I think you could add some really interested in Zuulli cards where you have that mechanic in there as well. So

JP: 39:37

So yeah, sounds great.

Chris Priscott: 39:42

I mean, what would you like to see?

JP: 39:44

I guess it's that's a great question. Yeah.

Becky: 39:46

Well, I mean, I'm here for the cuteness of the animals. So yeah, well, cute animals and I really like how you kind of, for example, like the grizzly bear you score more if he's on his own, because grizzly bears like the on their own. So I really like how you've kind of put that extra thought in and actually made them realistic. Yeah, exactly. So yeah. And like you were just saying about the kind of Flamingo idea and having them in flocks that's really sweet really becomes a reality

Chris Priscott: 40:13

Yeah, I mean, I would love to do that. And it definitely comes in when I designed the expansion. The hippo is also... it's not fully true to reality. But I did hear something about how hippos, when they're on lands, they're quite dangerous. And if they're just on land, they're quite dangerous. Whereas when they're in the water, they feel a bit safer. So I thought, okay, maybe if they have both available to them, they are less dangerous in the enclosure, and therefore, they can be friendly. Whereas if they're just in one or the other, they're less happy. Yeah, I mean, even like one that I'd love to do, to be honest, which it gets the first time talking about this is like, is, I love insects as well. Designing the whole game around insects might I would love to do but I'm not sure it sells so well, because a lot of people don't like insects. However, I'd love to do something like a card, which flips after a certain amount of time. So let's say you get to caterpillar in year one. Maybe it's only worth one point to actually in year two, you turn around. Now it's a butterfly. Yeah,

Becky: 41:17

That's a really good point.

Chris Priscott: 41:19

I'd love to introduce stuff like that.

Becky: 41:22

Now sounds awesome. Yeah. Watch this space. And so yeah, anything not in the Zuuliverse. So talking Unfringed now. So any other kind of things that you're we're not obviously spoiling anything, because you're probably still in the middle, or you're actually working on the activley working on the design?

Chris Priscott: 41:41

I guess when I can, yeah. I guess the main attraction when I started making this was the design aspects. I loved designing the games. And then everything else kind of took over. I have tried to find a little bit of time for design stuff. The one at the moment, which I'm most excited about is theamed around the place in Devon. So yeah, which which could be interested in, maybe. Roll and writey. Set in Devon. But let's see, like, yeah, it's find a little time to like, balance that between getting to the out there and designing this thing. But I would love to have something ready to test as Games Expo. But I'm not promising anything like on that front. Like, well,

Becky: 42:30

We'll be there, we we will be there.

JP: 42:31

So we're gonna be there next year. Awesome. And also, hopefully, we'll get to Essen. Hopefully, we actually got hotels booked for us.

Becky: 42:37

I don't think I'll be working. So that's a good thing.

JP: 42:41

Yeah. Yeah. New job. Yeah,

Becky: 42:43

I've got a new job recently. Not very exciting for the podcast, but

JP: 42:46

It's staying in though.

Becky: 42:50

In the same job, it'll still be as a nurse in theatres, but I won't be working weekends or nights. So these vistas of possibility. You've got an NHS job that you can get the weekends off.

Chris Priscott: 43:03

Yeah. Nicely done

Becky: 43:05

Very excited about that.

JP: 43:07

There we go. So we also had another question from Jason Frisby from the Meeple Minded Podcast, recording where those guys, they said they'd love to know after obviously on their show talking about when yourself and Jason played Zuuli, you switch playing with a blind draft. So you cannot see what your opponent opponents plans are. Yeah. And yeah. How did you find that?

Chris Priscott: 43:32

Yeah, I mean, hello, Jason. Yeah, I mean that that game was one of my favourite games I've played of Zuuli. The, it's funny how we didn't know each other before this. And actually, we both played and I could tell like, we both like, not necessarily wanted to win, it wasn't even competitive. But we were very quiet like, and we kind of played quite seriously. And it was just a really good game was really close down to the down to the wire. And we did do this kind of blind draft. So rather than taking one, and then showing it to everybody, at the same time, we played it blind, which I guess is more like a magic draft, which means you have to kind of use your memory a little bit more. So you have to kind of remember what you had in your hand. And then what gets passed back to you and this kind of stuff. I think I would say to answer this question, I guess I don't play it personally with a blind draft. I kind of like the less thinky part of the draft. But I would I do like the idea of exploring a competitive ruleset let's say, obviously, so even if it's like a tournament kind of mode, the idea of like, okay, as a competitive Zuuli, you would play best of three. And these are some rules that you would tweak in order to change the variance a little bit. Yeah, I don't know. I like the idea of a tournament of Zuuli it's really, it's quite exciting. If that ever happened? So? I think

Becky: 45:02

Yes, I've just realised that we play competitive Zuuli,

JP: 45:06

You taught me blind draft.

Becky: 45:07

Yeah, I've only ever played like that. And that's probably I'm gonna blame Kerley because he's not here to defend himself, because he's a Terraforming Mars and a Magic player. I think it was probably automatic to him to draft blind Yes. that. Oh, that's that's opened up new worlds now,

Chris Priscott: 45:25

I think it's one of those things it does, it does add an extra level. But with the accessible side, it's nice that you don't have to do that. Because I think even in Magic actually, I think I might be wrong here thinking competitive Magic draft. I think once you've taken it, you're not even allowed to look at what you've taken.

Becky: 45:45

Okay, so we do that. We kind of we play you know, we drafted blind, but then you sort of have a little sneaky peek.

JP: 45:51

Did I.. got two of those already? Yeah.

Becky: 45:55

I'm gonna see how that works. Yeah,

Chris Priscott: 45:58

That should have been my tip. Yeah, play. There's been just

Becky: 46:03

Read the rules properly.

JP: 46:06

Yeah, so the The final question we got from our listeners is actually from James McCann, who's Boardgamejimmy on Instagram, and also a big fan of yours again. So he says, Do you feel the success of zuuli puts you under additional pressure? Your design first time, you know, Yeah, everyone's loving it.

Chris Priscott: 46:31

I think I think that there was definitely pressure recently, so while I had stock, there was it was more like, I was just happy that it was selling and people were enjoying that it didn't feel so much like pressure to get it to people. Oh, well, yeah, there wasn't so much pressure then necessarily, when it ran out. I would have liked to have had stock already been created. But it went out of stock quicker than they expected. And then Christmas was coming up. So there was a certain amount of pressure recently, and there is at the moment to kind of make sure it's out before Christmas. Because obviously Christmas is a big selling time for for everything. But yeah, I think I don't know whether that would be different. Yeah, I guess that would be different if it wasn't successful. But yeah, I think yeah, again, with these kind of highs and lows. When at the moment like this week, when you have the highs I've seen people enjoy. Enjoy the game. It doesn't feel like pressure. Even if there is pressure, it doesn't feel like it because you're just enjoying seeing all of these posts come in. So yeah, it. Yeah, it can be sometimes but not enough that I can't manage yet. Maybe with two or three games on the go. It might get this. Yes. But yeah,

JP: 47:53

fair enough. So Jimmy, he's pretty cool. Not under pressure yet,

Becky: 47:59

It was nice to meet Jimmy at Gridcon

JP: 47:59

We got tomeet Jimmy which is fantastic. So yeah, no, thanks for answering those Chris. So as we kind of kind of warm down to the end. We have some episodes that we kind of do reoccurring called niche number one. So niche number ones are essentially like our, they're not really top 10s. But they kind of our favourite games in really weird, strange circumstances, alternate top 10. Yeah, as I say, I think Adrian said that they're the less helpful top 10's but they're always good fun to do. They're great episodes. So we like to ask our guests some of these because it just gets them thinking and stuff. So we've got a few here. I'm gonna just randomise this and throw one at you and see what you've got. So what's your favourite game you've bought on a whim?

Chris Priscott: 48:52

Oh, Game I bought on a whim, possibly. At least recently Mind Bug? Yeah, I didn't know too much about it. So yeah, that's probably the one most recent and yeah, and also Corinth. So Corinth is like a roll and write? Yeah. And also, I didn't know anything about that. And it was actually our first roll and write. I think that we'd ever played. And yeah, we both fell in love with it. So yeah, we really liked them. Yeah, it's nice. It's, um, I think we've played

JP: 49:19

Not played Corinth, but during the lockdown of 2020. I think the publisher released Corinth for print and play for free. Oh, wow. Yeah. to kind of help people. Yeah. Which I thought was a lovely thing for them to do do. But I haven't, haven't yet kind of printed out and given it a go but I've heard it so much that we've found the ultimate strategy now because it good things. So yeah, doesn't add. It doesn't have kind of objectives or stuff. Like, it's not as much fun anymore, so we'd still give it Yeah, we solved it. But I mean, we played lots of that game. So it's well worth it's it's got a lot of playability in there. Yeah. Awesome. Go on Becky

Becky: 50:07

Another one that we've got here. What is your favourite game that you don't own?

Chris Priscott: 50:13

So for a game that I don't own. Possibly something I played at Essen. Acropolis? I don't know if you've played Acropolis yet. No, I haven't. I've heard of it. It's that was very good. That was very good. And, and amazing. The, again, not overly complex, or at least on the surface, but a lot of kind of hidden strategy there as to how you build your city up. And I'm not sure why didn't pick it up. I should have picked it up. But I haven't, so

Becky: 50:44

I can hear that remorse in your voice. We all have that dont we?

JP: 50:50

He said three games and no more. Yeah. Let's finish off with one more than so what's your favourite game that has the most useless component? I remember answering this one for me. Yeah.

Chris Priscott: 51:07

Yeah, I have to hear yours afterwards. Yeah. I think for me, I don't, I wouldn't call it useless. So we picked up Tapestry a while back for a lot and had a very high price tag. And it is a very good game. We really enjoyed playing it. However, you can see why it has the high price tag is because there is eight or 10 like painted. I'm not sure if they're painted. But there's a 12.

JP: 51:34

A few more for maybe in 16 in Yeah,

Chris Priscott: 51:37

So there's a lot of ministers, and I'm not sure it's painted or the coloured plastic or whatever it is. And they're awesome. They're really nice looking miniatures. But I think what they add to the game, I could have it half the price of the game I could have done without them potentially have been on the grid. Yeah. So I'm not sure they're useless. But I think it's like, yeah, it didn't add enough to the game, probably for me. Yes,

Becky: 52:08

I certainly share that with miniatures. I mean, you know, I'm all one for a lovely little nice model or trinket that's absolutely great. But miniatures don't add enough to me to make it worth that kind of bigger investment. You don't have the choice,

JP: 52:23

That's what you get, isn't it?

Chris Priscott: 52:25

And this is where I like kind of the Kickstarter is nowadays that you have the multiple editions, because sometimes like if you can get it cheaper, and you don't have the miniatures, you just have little cardboard and pop out. That's fine. If you're not so much at the end, if you're not into the miniatures, and you can get a good price. And if you want the miniatures, pay some more like kind of like that with Kickstarter that you can do that. And not just with miniatures, but also I'm a sucker for upgraded components as well

Becky: 52:53

Ooh, he's speaking my language here. Yeah,

JP: 52:57

I think most people are sucker for it. But I think what's made me realise and I think I've probably talked about this previously, but Dune Imperium is my example that I go to have. You've got Dune Imperium. Great game. Love it. You've got the deluxe box version. It's not even the version of game this is basically all the miniatures, there's a big box. There's storage in it. And other things that that you can probably use, but it's like 50 quid, and it's like ah, I don't need it. How do you justify it, cos Dune Imperium nothing wrong with it Alright, it's got cubes, use cubes as your troop

Becky: 53:35

Cubes bah humbug orry, no

JP: 53:36

It works, and I'm fine with it and I'm cool with it and yeah, yeah, so yeah, I keep telling myself

Chris Priscott: 53:43

It's one of those things right it like if you got it as a birthday present and someone thought you'd be upgraded can be very happy yeah,

JP: 53:53

Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, mine was just to go back, mine was Champions of Midgard. Okay. And it's actually there's a useless component in the base game and it's a useless component in Valhalla I think the one of the expansions in the base game you get something to know what colour you are on your player board which is kind of completely pointless because you've got coloured meeples and everyone knows your red and everyone knows you're green, cant remember what it is but it's on your board to say I am red to everyone Yeah,

Becky: 54:30

Like you havent already argued about it at the start or the game? What I'm always yellow No, but I want to be yellow.

JP: 54:35

The other one was Valhalla you have a board and I think they just had extra space in the punch board right? Because why would you do that? Just have this board where all your tokens go and your warriors they don't need to go anywhere. But this board that sits next to your main board, like

Chris Priscott: 54:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Fun. Game wise, then like, so Event wise definitely

Becky: 54:53

We're at a point in the hobby where we can talk about useless Yeah, doesn't really matter. Not really. Cool. Okay. So yes, I suppose as we kind of get to the the end of our chat then Chris. We always ask what what are you excited for? What's coming up like game wise, event wise? Anything's wise. What are you really looking forward to? the Expo again next year, the UK Games Expo I yeah had an absolute blast this year. And yeah can't wait to go back and meet people in person again and have learned and we learned a huge amount from last year. So hopefully we can also utilise that this year and stuff and hopefully run some events like top score like we were doing this year and stuff. So definitely looking forward to that. Game wise. whats the most recent one I backed. I think I backed cause Cosmoctopus Kickstarter recently, and I must admit, the main reason like back to, I don't know, huge amount about the game yet. Except that if you're an early backer, you got a plushie octopus. And I was like, yes. Okay, so Sold, knows what I like, yeah,

Chris Priscott: 56:22

So yeah, so yeah, that's probably the game. I can't think of any others at the moment. I mean, I'd like one thing that's always been, I've always been keen to try actually is like the Resident Evil games. So I played video games a lot. And I've heard good things about the board game. So I'd like to try that.

JP: 56:38

Yeah, a few of the group have tried Resident Evil, steamforged games isn't it. I think so. Yeah. They've got two, think they enjoyed two. But I think the first one which came out after the second board game, the way they've done it I think, right, and the first one is supposed to be the best one. Okay, based on the first game, which is actually my favourite of the Resident Evil series anyway.

Chris Priscott: 57:02

Yep. Yeah.

JP: 57:03

Lots of good memories in 1996. Playing that PlayStation. Yeah.

Chris Priscott: 57:08

I distinctly remember my dad go into the Virgin megastores, was it? And he went to the desk with me. And they asked him, Is this for you? And he said, Yes. And it definitely wasn't. Definitely for me. Because it Yeah, I guess at the time, it's an 18 Plus game, right.

JP: 57:28

Look at it now. And you go. Really? Because, yeah, I think the graphics at the time were cutting edge was Yeah., 32 bit. Graphics.

Chris Priscott: 57:41

Fond memories. Yeah, I can picture it. Definitely much better than I'm sure it is like in my head. It looked amazing. I'm sure if I go back to it now. It'll be like, Wow.

JP: 57:52

Because I replayed the first one. The remastered version, I think came out and Gamecube. In the noughties at some point. So I ended up playing that version on x box. So I kind of gone back through the game going oh, yeah, this is really awesome. Look how great it looks. Obviously, it didn't look anything like that the controls have been improved. Yeah, there's less tank controls, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, I could talk about Resident Evil for another hour.

Chris Priscott: 58:16

Yeah. I mean, how about you guys, it what are you most looking forward to?

Becky: 58:23

Oh, well, I'm playing Everdell in about half an hour, actually. So yeah, so we've just bought the big old storage box, which is just so far up my street. I'm halfway down the road. And we're not going to mix in the two expansions tonight. Because, yeah, we're playing with a new player. So we've figured to just keep it simple. Yeah, but then, yeah, me and Kerley're gonna play some time sort of next week with the expansions and see what that adds to it. So

Chris Priscott: 58:48

I've never played it. It definitely looks. I mean, it looks fantastic on the table. Right. But I've never actually, I've never played it. Yeah,

Becky: 58:54

It's really good. I think it's got a lot more crunch to it, then. Then you could think perhaps just by looking at the cutesy little figures, but it plays really well

JP: 59:02

Quite a tough game as well. Yeah. To get what you need. Yeah.

Becky: 59:05

Plays really well on. I think it's steam that you can play it on? Kerley's been playing it online? Yeah. It plays really well on there. So I just, it's got the Evertree. I know that Adrian is not a fan if the Evertree but I just think it's lovely

Chris Priscott: 59:18

Iit is on the table. It's really nice. Absolutely.

Becky: 59:22

It may or may not be useless,

JP: 59:24

As long as youre not sat behind it, or near it. When it's you game, you can position yourself where you like. Yeah, I think for me, I've got what's it tomorrow Trickarion, love Trickarion. So that's tomorrow, and we're also going through ISS Vanguard, which we're really enjoying actually, that's I just wanna keep playing it. But you know, work gets in the way I've got kids to look after

Chris Priscott: 59:52

Yeah. Is it like a campaign one do you?

Becky: 59:54

Yeah it is. It's one of those. I kind of backed it. And it was really excited and then the horror of going off organise a campaign now. You know what it's like, how many games is it like a 16/18? Or what is it and everything's competing for time, games,life? Yeah. So then I kind of I thought do I want this? and then it arrived got excited again. Got the rule book out

Chris Priscott: 1:00:23

Two hours later,

JP: 1:00:25

I actually played the tutorial myself. And then I thought, oh my god, this is really fun. I got really immersed because it's this, the immersion in it's very, very good with the app and the audio logs and things. So you're kind of fully in this thing. And I thought no, and I did think shall I play this solo shall I play it with people, ended up playing it with people and now we're in like, only two games in it. Yeah. Just want to keep playing it. Yeah. Nice. So basically, it reminds me of like, Mass Effect and XCOM Oh, also, it's got that kind of Mass Effect travelling around the solar system, exploring planets, and the XCOM base management, research, tech, production, engineering, all that kind of stuff. So it's very, very, and it's fully co-op. Yeah, awesome. You all play like sections on the starship. So I'm actually the Recon section. So I'm like the scouts. So the army charge of like, travelling around in the big starship and make those decisions. And your husband Kerley's head of science, head of engineering. We got our security. So yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it's good fun.

Chris Priscott: 1:01:39

It's yeah. It's the kind of game I could definitely see myself getting hooked into, but it's the same kind of deal, right? It's like, you would need to kind of I think for me, I'd need to plan all 16 sessions to be like, we're gonna finish this. This is like, every date that we have.

JP: 1:01:54

We've already had the like, can we do Monday? Can't do We've already Monday. Can we do Friday? I can. But I can't. Yeah.

Chris Priscott: 1:02:01

Three weeks later. Yeah.

Becky: 1:02:03

Life just gets in the way doesn't it? gets in the way. Yeah,

JP: 1:02:06

I think event wise, Essen

Becky: 1:02:08

I cannot wait. I'm learning. I'm learning German on Duolingo, unit six now.

Chris Priscott: 1:02:13

Oh, it's a very different experience to UK Games Expo. I think. Yeah. That's it like, yeah, I liked both for different reasons. One of the downsides. I think with Essen was that was one of the benefits of UK Games Expo is that when it finishes, everyone goes and plays games together in Hall three. But with Essen, it kind of finishes. And everyone just goes back to their hotel. And I think there are some hotels that they play into the hours and stuff. But yeah, in the Premier Inn. There's a big collective that does that. Yeah. But like in terms of like, sheer amount of stuff. So it was a little bit overwhelming at times. But yeah, I mean, I still had enough to see on day four that I still wanted to see. It's very good. Yeah,

Becky: 1:03:08

We've got that in the pipeline. I'm excited for that.

JP: 1:03:10

Cannot wait. So yeah. Great. Okay, I think we've, we've hit the end then Chris. So really just a massive, honestly, massive thank you for your time this evening and chatting to the

Chris Priscott: 1:03:18

It is my pleasure. Thank you very much couple of us. And it's been really lovely. We love it though. We love when we chat designers or anyone kind of in the industry in hobby, because it just gives us that sneaky peek behind the curtain. You know, we play a lot of games and a lot of games hits our tables every every week, every month. So it's nice just to kind of see how these things get created. And what's the kind of Genesis or some of this stuff so no, massive, massive thank you really appreciate for having me on. It's been it's been great. I love, I could talk board games for hours board games. We do.

JP: 1:03:58

Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you're, you're roll and write in Devon gets gets moving on. Yeah, give us a shout. Awesome. Great. Thank you very much, Chris. Cool. Thank you. Thank you Now or final turn is wrapping up. And thank you again, Chris, and giving up your time to speak to us. It's been fantastic. So if you really enjoyed the show, and you want to kind of get involved, please obviously like subscribe and review on your podcast player of choice and if you want to get in contact, you've got so many ways to do it. And as always, you've got email players@whoseturn.co.uk we've got our Facebook page Whose turn is it anyway podcast. You've got our Instagram page@whoseturnpodcast and tik tok a@whoseturnisitanyway. And we'll be back again no doubt in a week or so. With another episode so again, see you later