Dan Apsey: 0:48

Welcome to Whose turn is it Anyway, a podcast all about our gaming group and of course board games. I'm Dan, your current first player. And I'm joined around this lovely table by Davey. Hello, Adrian. Hello. And Kerley. Hello, everybody. First things first is a massive, massive thanks to everyone who has supported us on Ko-fi. Which is amazing. We've done so, so well on that. So thank you to everybody truly it means the world to us. We are going to talk about boardgame geek today, but before we do that, how are y'all doing? Yeah,

Davey: 1:24

doing all right. Yeah, yeah. Not too bad. Yeah, not too shabby. Yeah, it hasn't stopped raining, which is no, it's fine. We'll talk about the weather because we're British. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, he's in with a bit of weather talk.

Adrian: 1:38

Weather man got it wrong today as well put me washing on the line. Oh, no. Said it wasn't gonna do it until like four o'clock five

Dan Apsey: 1:48

Did you roll for initiative before putting it out. No

Adrian: 1:55

What's it gonna be me versus the world

Davey: 2:05

I wouldn't pay to see that fight

Dan Apsey: 2:12

rolling one all of a sudden the washing machine just takes off.

Adrian: 2:17

Just watch me make a bed

Davey: 2:22

are trying to find the corners that's gonna be on our new Ko-fi subscription model is what Adrian make his bed

Dan Apsey: 2:34

Yes. I mean, there's been like, what? Two storms? Yeah. What's up? Keiron, Keiron and Debbie. Can we get them off of segment one.

Kerley: 2:47

You haven't asked how I am but you know, it's fine. Everyone is fine. Don't care any more, shove it up your arse.

Dan Apsey: 2:54

It's gonna be good fun part. Brother thing let's talk about hex. Guys. Have we been up to the start with you? Shall we clearly you are dying to speak I can tell by looking at

Kerley: 3:18

So I had a really busy few weeks actually, with board gaming, but probably the most noteworthy because as all of the listeners know, I like replaying the same games over and over and over again. was actually a new game Perseverance episode three. So that's the brand new. What Davey says hotness, is it? Yeah, yeah. Brand new hotness. Yeah, so got a sneak preview. Episode Three from Mindclash on a rules teach video with Paul Grogan from gaming rules. Yeah, with me, JP and him is really good fun. Obviously, anyone who's played the first two, just give you a bit of an idea. And I thought running with the theme of the episode, I would give you the little blurb from Episode Three from BGG just give you a little bit of the story. So in person in Perseverance, finally safe from dinosaur attacks and has grown into a bustling city. As players discover how to tame and ride the dinosaurs, including the new thunder home and iron jaw species as their primary action they may now choose to send the dino rider into the far reaches of the island, instead of placing a die in the city. Besides streamlining some of the usual area majority elements Episode Three takes new approach focusing on engine and Tableau building. See landmarks provide powerful passive benefits while players may build and customise their own branches on their player boards activating them as a secondary action using the new supply resource acquired from the wilderness but yeah, it's really interesting you can gain dinos from various different actions and you can go on adventures similar to what you did but now you're unlocking the map as it kind of goes up you start off just being able to access the swamp and then you access the jungle and then the hills and you gain different benefits you gain new dinos you can then tame you know going forward unlock new temples which is really interesting mechanic where if you take the area that's the temple then all of those unlocks of taming is free from then on which it makes an interesting kind of engine builder Yeah, so absolutely love it. The the idea of it is just going from the episode one where you kind of you first land and you fight off the Dinos and you're trying to just sort Five to episode two where you go, Okay, now we've survived. And now we're just starting to branch out a little bit to episode three ways to entertain dinos. And I believe Episode Four has recently been leaked as to what is actually going on with that.

Dan Apsey: 5:46

I think it's part of the game found. Yeah, no, yeah,

Kerley: 5:48

yeah, that's it.

Davey: 5:50

Yeah. It's about whether you want to leave the island or kind of stay on the island and you've got chips, and there's a big monster come in, I think, Well,

Kerley: 6:00

I haven't looked at the full details. But from from what I understand, there's like a, an alien slash dimensional other species that originally came and came to this island. That's where all the temples came from. And basically, they come back. So you've got and they're not very nice, and they don't like us very much. So the idea is that you can either stay and try and fight them, or you can build a ship and leave. Both I believe are wind conditions. And yeah, that's the final chapter. So

Davey: 6:26

that bit of a kind of reminds me of Anachrony where you have to choose to stay for a little bit longer or you evacuate? Yeah.

Kerley: 6:34

Yeah, so definitely something I'm really looking forward to episode three, I would say, as a general thought from it a little bit more lightweight, I would say. One or episode two. So I would say somewhere in between the two, but I was referring to Episode 2. Se is not quite as complicated, but it's got the same feel. So it's made it a little bit easier and accessible without ruining the feel of the game, in my opinion.

Adrian: 6:59

Yeah, sounds good.

Kerley: 7:00

There's only one thing the ranch system I haven't got my head round just yet. Because it seems like all engine and no output at the moment. Yeah, but I think that will just be a matter of play. You know, and keeping in mind as well, that although we had a very finalised version of the game, the rule but they were still tweaking, so it might well be that there's some balancing stuff that's to go in as well. But yeah, went really well. Really loved the game, probably my favourite of the three and considering the other two are up there in my top 10. Now there is definitely a high praise for for that one. Yeah. So I can afford to get into the table. Yeah, you've backed it up, as well. So I would have backed it. But you know, I don't get a look in with you pair around, suits my bank balance quite well.

Dan Apsey: 7:42

Back it and then just keep it sealed. And

Kerley: 7:45

that's like my copy of Eclipse. I just love it so much. I want my copy. Again,

Adrian: 7:54

I've been the total opposite end of the scale, and I've had no games really out. Yeah, no, just we'd had kind of Essen and other bits and pieces and like a couple of sort of weeks of solid gaming. And then just life got busy and a bit naff. And I was kind of a bit gamed out. And strangely, it's never really happened before. But my shelf of shame was starting to almost cause me anxiety, like the number of games that were unplayed that I really wanted to get to, but just knew I wouldn't get to was really causing me a bit of like, oh, this is like a different. Yeah, like not anxiety or anything like that, but just felt odd. I couldn't I cut that out shame. I just couldn't put it into words. So I've kind of had a little bit of a sort of a three week hiatus. I've played a couple of games but haven't. I've played plenty of time. And I think I've spoken about them plenty of time before. So yes, I've been just kind of doing other things been designing inserts and doing the 3d insert thing. And I've been doing a bit of like Warhammer building miniatures and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, unfortunately, this is kind of a bit of a short segment on my part to sort of say that, yeah, I just haven't really got up to anything. My shelf of shame still looms in the corner. I'm not quite as freaked out about it as I was a couple of weeks ago, it just caught me a bit off guard. So

Davey: 9:15

you know, the solution for that? No,don'd buy the games?. No, no, no, no, no, buy the games then start playing.

Adrian: 9:24

Previously what I would do like, because I do nearly an all day Sunday gaming session usually or manager and then I do

Davey: 9:33

play so many games. Completely fine. So

Adrian: 9:37

yeah, so yeah, that's been my like, last few weeks. So I've quite enjoyed it. To be honest, I'm now sort of ready and raring board gaming. So it's been quite nice to have

Kerley: 9:46

that I think it's nice to have a little bit of time off,

Adrian: 9:49

reset the mechanisms sort of thing you know, and reset your expectations and where you're at and then sort of kick off again, especially if I do

Kerley: 9:57

a lot of things as well. Ya know, like, another social life and work and family and everything else. Overwhelming juggling

Dan Apsey: 10:05

act and then trying to make time for it. And sometimes sometimes it's nice to distance yourself and then come back to and go oh, I remember this.

Adrian: 10:11

Because normally I sort of push all that other stuff to one side, not work if they're listening but you know, I push, my family is not listening. Just sort of give gaming a bit more of a sort of a sense of sport in my life. Whereas Yeah, every now and again, you kind of got to go and I'll go and then I really You should sort of pay attention to the other parts of it and yeah, give that centre stage. But there we go. That's maybe not exciting, but I think needed and always worth talking about because I think sometimes when you look online and stuff like that, you think Blimey, I've not getting through as many games as other people and all that kind of stuff. And shame

Dan Apsey: 10:49

is always large. I just never get a chance to get it, but I get it. Sometimes it's like, I want to get into the table, but it's time and I'm learning it and then you know, do it. But then, you know, I always love that game over there. That's lovely and cute and cuddly. And it's my favourite, so I'm gonna go good to that more.

Kerley: 11:04

I just don't understand how your shelf shame can be so large when you're the one who picks the games I know for your gaming group. Still got

Dan Apsey: 11:15

this is because I know I know one.

Kerley: 11:20

And it's also because of your nickname. If I

Dan Apsey: 11:22

go to new hotness, good new hotness. But then I go into old and cute and cuddly and lovely and furry and is that

Adrian: 11:29

what you're calling brass Birmingham. Checking.

Dan Apsey: 11:33

I do love brass but I Lancashire very much, Davey, have you been up to? So

Davey: 11:41

kind of Scandinavian folklore. So you have to choose the first player by who's got the biggest nose. So that one that was a bit of like, okay, this is a weird, why don't you know these rules.

Dan Apsey: 12:11

Let's just maybe look relevant.

Davey: 12:15

Never winning the nose. No.

Dan Apsey: 12:19

It's either me or Adrian, maybe maybe a little off the face.

Davey: 12:25

I'm gonna say it depends if it's side profile, flat on I think flat on done, you'll get it Yeah. And then if it's side probably aged. But anyway.

Dan Apsey: 12:36

Just so we can find out once and for all, who is going to be who's knows who's who's

Adrian: 12:41

making those moulds, and then find out the volume entry

Davey: 12:43

So the game is worker placement. You have trolls area. funnily enough, and you kind of have a deck of cards and a deck all the deck of cards really does put resources out in the map. But it also kind of dictates there's an extra worker, that's an extra action point really, but that King troll. And basically, when you play that card, it also moves that around, you build out this this cabin, you get resources on it, but you have to you have like these actions, which require a certain amount of trolls, and they slowly build up on your board, which gives you more action points to do more on the little action spaces. Then in the town, you can put out workers and you get things like babies, you swap the troll for the baby like they do grow. Or you get humans and humans act as like dead action points. So you can fill those out

Kerley: 13:35

This is all getting a bir macarbre

Davey: 13:41

as they're not like dead action points, they stay where they are, they're not actually dead, you're paying them off when you get them to pay X. But in the in the towns, the kind of troll stay there and they added the opponent's action points as well. So you've got to really think about the flow and where resources are. And it was it was a good good game and really enjoyed it. When you built build the cabin. Now you've got like tiles, I have VP modifiers you can also get other cards which give you benefits, etc, etc. Real fun, no work placement. I think two players really the other people cancelled to play it was a bit. It didn't feel as much contention going on. And we kind of I had my at Town area, Marcus had his town area. And that was it. Because the way

Adrian: 14:23

he was describing us like that sounds like a very two player game if you're adding to someone else's pool and you're trying to do that thing. But if you're just saying it's not to play,

Davey: 14:31

I will the way that happened, it may have been what cards were playing as well as to where the resources went. But they're both kinda was like I've got my resources here, you've got yours there, we've ended up when we filled up the towns because you can basically put out permanent placements, which add action points only for you. So that was what kind of dictated it. In the end, Marcus filled out all of this and then I had a load over here. So we were just like, why would we go where we get unless action points make sense? So it did end up that way whereas if obviously, there's four players or three players even there's going to be a bit more contention about where which sector you're going to go to. So yeah, I'll play it again. There was like slight criticism about it saying that it's like a one and done kind of game but I could see couple of plays you know at least

Dan Apsey: 15:19

about yourself then I finally after months and months and months of trying to get into the table finally got our the expansion for Anachrony fractures of time. I'm, I love Anachrony, I talked about it on the pod before but it is up there, my isn't my top three. And for those who don't know, it's got a very strong time travel mechanic in it where you're moving down a timeline by giving resources to your past self, but you have to pay them back. Otherwise you're going to anomalies in the time rift. And the fractures are time expansion adds another resource in its, which is called Flux. And basically, when you're putting worker placement actions down on the main board, you can what's called Blink them from one area to another, and essentially take actions again on the on the main board of the game. The game was meant to be shorter, isn't it? But currently, but it's not, is it? Because it's this from seven to five kind of game rounds, isn't it? Well,

Kerley: 16:19

thus, in the game rounds have been severely reduced by the amount that you do on those game rounds has been more than doubled. So yeah, it probably takes longer, takes longer, but it's very fun.

Davey: 16:28

It really opens up the border or more, doesn't it because people move around spaces. So that means you can then go action again. And it definitely for me it's not as tight in what you can do for fun,

Dan Apsey: 16:41

but my strategy playing the base game, and then actually playing Yeah, it's fun enough, there is a strategy that I've I've nearly been. But I think the strategy that I use for the base game, you can't use for fractures, it's completely different. And it was nice to see although I didn't play as the new faction, the new the new faction that comes out, it's nice to see them out as well and the minis are gorgeous, and the components are lovely anyway, but I really really enjoyed using that flux mechanic and kind of pushing luck with it to try and get as much as you can as well. Oh, I did very much crammed full of flux. I was round full of the flux. We did lots of flux capacitating It's not a word

Davey: 17:22

for us to flex capacity for

Dan Apsey: 17:24

Yes, I was very much at Flux. Capacitor

Kerley: 17:28

the Back to the Future as a feature.

Dan Apsey: 17:30

Yeah, yes. But yeah, I loved it. Fantastic. And I want to play again eaching play again because it was that good. Yeah.

Kerley: 17:38

That's one of my favourites. I'd say that currently is probably my favourite game and that's probably my very, very favourite variant of it. What about TM? TM is close number two, close number two personal but not number one. It wasn't number one, but back when he took over a couple years ago. is

Dan Apsey: 17:55

so good. I need to get some more because it is that good and crunchy and lovely. And then once

Kerley: 18:02

you will know it, it's a little bit shorter than TM as well which kind of fits me. Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 18:07

the bulk was so lame partly by the base games were inaccurate. I did the base game from I couldn't get them pretty quickly. Yeah,

Kerley: 18:13

but I've tried it before. It's a two and a half to three hour game. Yeah, with that. I think it was just the learning side of it. I think with the flux you probably get out in about three hours. Yeah. Yeah. One TM is really is just takes a lot longer than you think really with with the expansions we play with it for hours plus really

Dan Apsey: 18:31

from a TM you don't? You don't think it's gonna take that long, then it just does just feel like it does. Because it's a solid game. No, I love like, yeah. Shall we? Shall we move on gentleman, the. Board Game Geek, let's talk about BoardGameGeek. I

Davey: 18:54

said a bit quicker.

Dan Apsey: 18:57

Let's talk about a board game. Because I don't know about you. But it is like the Bible for our hobby. Once I discovered BoardGameGeek. I think it's like a constant tab that's kind of always open on my screen on any device I have. It is just the powerhouse of tools for our hobby. So I've got a few points to go through that we can discuss about it. But first of all, what do you guys primarily use it for? Because it's a big and so such a vast catalogue of information? That could be something that you use, specifically for it? Or generally, what do you use it for? Davey?

Davey: 19:38

I have three main uses of BoardGameGeek. One to justify to not buy a game usually because I don't because it's me. I'm like, Oh, well. It's not gonna be a 7.5 Is it? And you look at it. It's like, oh, no, it hasn't. So I'm not gonna buy it. Because I like to talk myself out of buying games, because otherwise, I would have bought a lot more games. And my shelf for shame wouldn't be a shelf of shame and probably be like a wall and a floor of shame. So that's one of the things I use it for which might be counterproductive to people but that's just me, too. I use it for seeing the new hotness. Yes. Which we'll talk about I'm sure yes, absolutely. And then three is clarifying of route to clarify game rules. It's such a niche thing, some of these board games and then trying to find rule interactions elsewhere. You're never gonna find it, boardgamegeek is the place to go if you want to find out I forgot. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's one of the biggest things because sometimes you have this really strange, like combo, and then how someone else must have done this. And then you look at someone there, and then maybe even the designer has gone there as well. Okay, so coming from a designer, and that's fine. This is how it's meant to be.

Kerley: 20:54

Yeah, it's funny, actually, nine times out of 10. When you Google an issue with a board game, it comes up with a Board Game Geek for

Adrian: 21:02

someone else. The question is how to

Kerley: 21:05

use Board Game Geek for it. But yeah, that's where that's where you end up with.

Davey: 21:09

Yeah, well, sometimes the search doesn't pick up. So sometimes it's good to just go on for for clarifications, anyway. And then like, when I played nucleum the other day as well, the new expansion pack, Googled it, you can't find it anywhere. And it came with a little QR thing. I don't know why that is. So that's gone into the ether. But BoardGameGeek now there was just as a PDF PDF

Adrian: 21:34

entry, what about you? So similar to Davey. I think it's really good for having like a living FAQ, almost for the rulebook. Because quite often, they're first printings or whatever. And the questions that nearly always been asked before by someone else, so it's great. There's there's games that like, like what only released at Essen and nowhere else, and yet, they've already got the questions on BoardGameGeek. And it's not really out for mass production, sort of like for retail yet. And yet, people have already asked the question, the designers come back and answered them, because quite often, designers and publishers are already on that means

Davey: 22:07

no one could argue with us. Well, yeah, it's this. These are the rules. The

Adrian: 22:10

designer said, Yeah, this is exactly how it plays out. Sometimes it's not the designer, it's just kind of people coming together to work out a common consensus, but quite often, it can be the designer answering the question. Yeah. Sleeve sizes.

Kerley: 22:23

So you took one of mine, Adrian.

Adrian: 22:27

So if you go on to BGG, they've actually just upgraded it recently. So there's now a card. There's now a card sleeve. Like clickable link was before it was just at the very bottom of the list clicked on that everyone. Now there's actually like a tab on there. That's for sleeve sizes. That's quite an interesting that they've done what sleeves I

Dan Apsey: 22:50

don't know random?

Adrian: 22:57

I do quite like a USA Chimaera. There we go. Yeah, there you go.

Dan Apsey: 23:04

I cannot answer that question. I haven't got a clue. Do you? Do you have a favourite sleeve size?

Kerley: 23:11

I've not signed up.

Adrian: 23:15

Trojan? And then I think the third point is, if there's a designer whose game I've not played before, and I kind of want to see what other work they've got out there or something like that, I'll quite often use BoardGameGeek to sort of research that designer or understand kind of if there's a regular mechanism they use or something like that. And it's really handy because it's just a giant database. So you kind of can pull that information out the system quite quickly. So yeah, that's kind of the third thing I suppose I use BGG for

Dan Apsey: 23:47

down the rabbit phone rabbit hole of content, because you click on a designer's Oh, they've done this and then you know what, you've you've got five games just turned up at your doorstep.

Adrian: 23:58

quite like that for me. Yeah, it is great for sort of having a look and seeing what else is out there that you might not have seen in the hotness sort of thing might be a bit of a they did that five years ago and hadn't heard about it quite

Dan Apsey: 24:12

Kerley. What do you use it for?

Kerley: 24:15

Well, various things. I agree with everything you guys have said definitely card sleeves. I've done that on many occasion. That's really helpful. And I am a sleever. I'm given two undertand. I assumed everyone was but apparently it's not a thing.

Dan Apsey: 24:28

Depends on the game. For me. Yeah. Militant

Kerley: 24:31

anti sleeve.

Dan Apsey: 24:32

Yeah, definitely. It's depends on how much a card has been handled. It's how I would

Kerley: 24:41

My TM was really just starting to, you know, yeah. That

Davey: 24:45

you're handling those a lot. I do understand it. But as if it's an event card that comes out, like round the board. How are they ever going to touch those?

Kerley: 24:52

They must have sleeving when I when I tried to what I did successfully sleeve my entire Twilight Imperium with the expansion. I think it was about 600 If you when you don't really think about it, but all the planets Yeah. Oh my god. So

Dan Apsey: 25:13

we want to get more for because it was leaked. Yeah.

Kerley: 25:16

So yeah, I use it for that. I also use it to do a lot of research. Exactly. As Adrian says, you know, if I like a designer, I'll go down that rabbit hole very often. The other thing I wanted to mention, I don't do so much of this but keeping in mind that the marketplace is massively used on there as well for If we want games, we'd be selling games, all that kind of stuff. Obviously, it's mostly not regulated. So you got to be a little bit careful on that, from what I understand. But functions a little bit like like Facebook marketplace. Yeah, thing where, you know, but lots of people put their libraries or their whole board game library up there and then say, these are the ones I want to get rid of, you know, and other people that are searching for them and kind of brings them together, you know,

Dan Apsey: 25:54

update the listings quickly.

Adrian: 25:57

Quite often, you message them. I saw that three years ago. Yeah, yeah. Thanks. But they do is it the maths six change or the maths swap a common thing, what they call it, but that's quite often through BoardGameGeek, where everyone kind of puts in what they want and what they've got. And then in so right, you send Person A sends to person B, something and person B sends, like one of these

Davey: 26:16

sounds like communism?

Adrian: 26:20

And then hopefully, you get something that you like, yeah.

Kerley: 26:23

Yeah, yeah. So I use it for that. Definitely. The other thing that I haven't used in a little while I have to confess, but when I went to the Taunton board gaming group, kind of at the same time that I started here, they organised it on BoardGameGeek. Yeah, so there's like a guild on there, and they use it. Alright, it was fairly I prefer the event system that we use. But this was more of a you know, this is what's happening this day. This is who's coming this is any updates, and you know, they could post new threads and stuff like that. So that was that was pretty good. That was pretty useful.

Davey: 26:56

It has come a long way. When you think about when it I've when I first started using it, and the UI was all over the place, it was pretty much just like a glorified spreadsheet form. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And there's definitely, there's still things that could be better, but they've come a long way.

Adrian: 27:15

It's definitely yeah, there was was about four years ago, I think it was just full lockdown, wasn't it just off lockdown, change the layout kind of did all the updates, they did like a massive UI update. Because before that, it just felt like it was just where they were building stuff on top of crumbling foundations almost. Whereas now it actually feels a bit more user friendly patch

Davey: 27:35

on it, rather than Yeah, I

Kerley: 27:36

can actually rebuild. Go back to what you know what else I use what I do also use it for ratings. I know that it's not necessarily a good thing to do, but I can't help myself doing it. In the fact of I don't think I'd ever buy a game that was under seven. I know that to be a fact. And I don't really, you know, but I mean, how much considering that you can ratings bomb things. Yeah. And now I don't know how much credence but in it. But it's such a quick and easy resource to get a really feel for how well a game is regarded that I do find it quite useful. The only other thing I use it for the last thing is, if I can't find a review, or it's a smaller game, going on to the website for the going on to BGG for the actual game itself. They normally have a how to play on the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. So I found that cool. Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 28:24

So things I use it for are definitely obviously for research, as you guys have said, and I use it for, for a lot of

Davey: 28:28

Yeah, yeah, well, two examples. So Takenoko and Baren rulebook hunting. That's where I go for in front of rulebooks, because go there straightaway. I mean, a lot people will just Google it. But I tend to go to BGG. Because I think that's where I'm going to find the most up to date. I know that talking about Anachrony again, I know that there was a time a while back, I'm not sure if it is now but there was a time before they brought up the essential edition where if you googled the main rulebook, then it will bring up an old version. As I'm reading, they're like, well, this doesn't sound quite right to me, they must have made changes. And then I discovered that on BGG was the actual proper one. So I find that googling sometimes doesn't necessarily help. It's better now than it used to be. But back along it and I found it difficult. But obviously, looking at the new hotness is something that I do like you do Davey's having a look at what's what's around and what's what's about. But also, it's quite a good place to look at UK events. So they've a lot of people list, UK events on BGG or worldwide events on BGG to find different conventions, different things going on for board games, and that's a good place to directory to find different events are going on throughout the year. They're just very, very good question for you all. So have you ever picked up a board game in a shop, looked at the box? And then the next thing you do is to go and book and game? That's why I've always it's what you always done, right? Yeah, yeah. So would you use would you do that every time? And can you name again that you know that you've done it with and because of what you've seen on BoardGameGeek? It has swayed you to buy the game or not? Park. I was looking for a game from in German to play. Looks at that look to the Board Game Geek just to see what's going to work better for two player and they're Baren park because think it's more better kind of puzzle. You're doing kind of doing your own thing. But it's nice and nice to play again. So that's what swayed it for me as well because I mean, ratings wise, I don't think that are off each other point one or something. So but it was just basically, this is better at two player. And that helps

Kerley: 30:39

does a good point, just on a side note of the previous subject, I very often use it for ideal player counts

Dan Apsey: 30:45

Yeah, yeah, yes, very much. So

Kerley: 30:47

I'm saying game runtimes.

Davey: 30:51

Lie. We all know, the box game time is for play testers that have played the game a lot. And then they're all sitting around and playing that game. And I think somehow, rather than being like, Oh, we're going to add some time on because it's definitely not the right time. It just always seems to come out at the lower end. Doesn't matter.

Dan Apsey: 31:10

or so times is like 30 minutes per player isn't really new. No, they definitely not these players. No.

Davey: 31:17

I mean, if you're playing with a lot of people who have played it a lot, and that's probably is the time. Yeah, but maybe even quicker. I

Dan Apsey: 31:23

guess people like us don't get why don't often play a game a lot or enough to match that. And that's fine.

Adrian: 31:31

I think a lot of people assume that the run time is going to be the first time you play it. That will be the run Yeah. Which I think is just a general thing and board game that just doesn't happen.

Davey: 31:44

The first first game time? That's what it should be. It's how long your first game per play?

Dan Apsey: 31:50

Probably, but

Davey: 31:53

honestly, I wouldn't say 12 hours.

Kerley: 31:59

I don't think generally if you first go Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 32:01

I think I deliberately don't put the guide in time box. So they know. Like, you already know it's gonna take forever. area.

Adrian: 32:10

Yeah, I'm sort of I don't often use BoardGameGeek as like a first line of checking stuff to see if there's a designer that I've sort of found, I will look elsewhere. I will look in BGG for that, like further information. But quite often I will look for a podcast or YouTube channel or something like that. Because when you look at, especially when you're looking at scores, they're human inputs, right? So you get review bombing, and like people then doing the opposite where they're trying to push it

Dan Apsey: 32:42

up. And I mentioned this, and

Adrian: 32:46

then I've seen like, you know, six out of 10 fantastic game would recommend to anyone and I was like, as a six out of 10. Like, what,

Davey: 32:55

but this is why reading the reviews also helps as well. Like if you want a deed, I do like going down and reading the reviews, because that also helps dictate what kind of consensus you're getting off

Dan Apsey: 33:05

of people. Just taking the time to Yeah, lengthy review and

Davey: 33:08

Darkest Dungeon great example. They kind of screwed everyone over with the shipping wasn't necessarily their fault. It just poor business sense, I think but everyone seemed to take well, a lot of people seem to take that as a slight instead and the fact that rather than it being poor business and ship, it's actually money grabbing. Yeah. Whereas now the cost went up. Yeah.

Adrian: 33:29

One out of 10.

Davey: 33:29

They didn't deal with it very well, rather than being like, oh, you know, send, if you can't afford it? Well, you know, we're refunded all of this. It was just like, No, you have to pay it. So I think that's where they kind of slipped up. But people started review bombing. Really don't again, I haven't really been paid yet. And then people were then trying to buy it back the other way. And it's like, well, hold up here. This leaves this out. Really helpful. Yeah, exactly. What you need isn't just another like chat section for people who want and then grievances rather than a review section. But people

Adrian: 34:05

people wouldn't use it people just to continue to wouldn't review vomit. I think for me, that's quite often the reason why I don't use BGG or the new hotness is because there's that. And then also, if you go to look at the now weight is all over the place at the best of times, if you ever go to look at weight on a new game, it is normally a lot lower than what it ends up being. And my theory on this is because let's say in the Mindclash, because we've talked spoken about them a few times comes out everyone who loves mindclash races out goes to Essen or UK games expo or finds prototype copies. Great on there, right? Yeah, it's about the same as normal medium, or something like that. And they'll pass medium weight or lower weight. And then as more people who aren't ofay with it, like start and play it, they'll click heavy, how higher and so then that tends to slowly creep up. I've added to get a few examples, but I think nucleum has shifted point three weight in like upwards in like the space of a month and a half. Yeah, so people who are used to playing that level of game will go out there, they'll write it, they might write it as a medium or a 3.5 or something like that. Whereas in fact, I think sets reach for average gamer that I don't believe exists, but let's call them average gamer might go out there and go this is more like a medium heavy or heavyweight game for 4.5. And then it slowly over time creeps up. I've seen it with quite a few games, especially the heavyweight games.

Davey: 35:29

I've got a theory with this as well. Where's this all So if you look at expansion, so always rated higher. Yeah. And it's because the only people that have bought the expansion before the game, enjoy the game. Yeah. So then that also works in the same way so that you can get very,

Dan Apsey: 35:44

what do you naturally think that the game would be slightly more weightier with an expansion with it?

Davey: 35:49

I'm talking about review wise as well as a review, right? Yeah, sorry, I did flip that. But I just meant runs along the same tangent.

Kerley: 35:56

I don't know. I just kind of I agree with you to an extent. But I always feel like kind of as long as there's not been review bombing, which admittedly doesn't happen incredibly often. I do think as long as there hasn't been review bombing, I think the masses kind of give you a general word levelling up that kind of thing. Whereas if you go and listen to a YouTube video, or podcast or whatever, you they've got inbuilt bias, right? And that might be bias that you agree with. It might be that they've got heavy games, but it's not anything malicious, maybe. But they've got a bias in certain directions, you know which way it is? Now I know people who I mean, I don't know this for an absolute fact, actually. But I'm pretty sure there are some channels that live off giving negative reviews, and really tearing stuff apart from the big headline, you know? Yeah. So I don't know if I trust them either. And so then it takes a lot longer to get to an opinion, whereas I'd, I'd be more inclined maybe to do a what how you play or something?

Adrian: 36:48

I don't know. Yeah. Which is how I would look at something to gain an understanding of it. But if you're, let's say you're newish into the hobby. And you're hearing all about Nucleum. As an example, it's not out retail yet, you want to get a feel for it. If you went and had a look at the weight. And when are the weight is about the same as whatever other game? Yeah. And then it turns out to be heavier, turns out to be nucleum. Yeah. You know, then that's quite misleading. So for the, it's because it's a user generated system, you will always have this problem, there's pretty much no way to get around it that I can see without paying more money with time. Exactly. But if you're not using it from a hotness perspective, yeah, you know, and especially if you're new in the hobby, and you don't understand maybe, or you haven't seen these caveats and sort of nuances appearing in the system, you might take it as read as are putting everything from three to 3.5. That's in the top 100 And go from there. Well, I think he's like 3.8, or something like that, when it first was no, 3.6 I think when it first came out, let's say you put three 3.6, and nucleum is in there, in like the hotness, and you'll run out and pay 70 quid for that. And then you spend, like two hours reading rulebook and don't know your arse from your elbow when you finished with it. That's quite misleading. And that's, I think that's BGG has a lot of really well, but I do think that's one of the things is because it's so user generated, it could be quite tough to

Davey: 38:08

actually need to be at the recommended way to start with because they've played X amount, and then people then vote wherever they should go up and down.

Adrian: 38:17

And pay someone a lot of money to do that. With every game that comes out and all that cut, it's just it's

Davey: 38:21

been tied in with the it's in their own their best interest as well. There isn't attention,

Adrian: 38:26

but that's the same as playtime, isn't it? If I say yeah, play time can be two hours I tell you, it's gonna be what you could

Dan Apsey: 38:31

do. Some some places, like some refusals with extender, where you you have to have so many will accept and publish results. Yeah, which I think would be quite a good thing, because then at least you've got the good random number, you should have a decent average

Davey: 38:46

score. And it does feel like there's like two camps. So isn't it with these kinds of things where basically, you either go onto YouTube and find someone who has a similar opinion to a lot of games? Yeah. And you follow them, or you kind of go with the mean average, and try and hopefully, get the right game from that. And I

Adrian: 39:06

think I pay more attention to like the weight ratings and videos you've done rather than the must

Kerley: 39:12

be hard when you hate so much to keep a tab on.

Dan Apsey: 39:18

Because you can stop by one rating.

Adrian: 39:22

One to five 90% of gaming.

Kerley: 39:28

So yeah, so I can give you an example of mine. It was actually in the UK games Expo. And this is not knocking this game, by the way.

Dan Apsey: 39:36

I think I'm gonna say, Okay, now you

Kerley: 39:39

talk. No, no, no, no. Cool.

Dan Apsey: 39:41

Are you going to talk about books of time?

Kerley: 39:43

No. So anyways, um, player. Beast, Beast. Now, it wasn't anything to do with the score rating. But I looked at it in Zatu. And I thought, Oh, this is you know, popular. Everyone's talking about it. And I thought I'd have a little look, I looked at the bacj looked interesting. Obviously, the name appeals. And then I went on to BGG checked it out. And kind of first things I got out of it is the fact is a hidden movement cooperative game. I've already got one. Fine. I don't need another one in that genre. So you know, I've got fury of Dracula, which I absolutely love, but you need beast and fury of Dracula. Yeah. I've played both now. Really enjoyed beast. I definitely wouldn't buy it. Yeah, good decision. Yeah. So you know, that's the other kind of thing I use it for. Yeah. Yeah,

Davey: 40:33

it's multifaceted, rather than being just the school, and a lot of that. Yeah, definitely do take in a lot of other things as well. Like if someone came out and was like, Oh, we're playing this game, I wouldn't get my phone out. I looked up and boardgame. 36 million cash, you

Dan Apsey: 40:48

know, no, that Yeah, that's very true. I

Davey: 40:53

would I would try it and then make my own opinion, then I'd be like, don't agree what people say online. But when you when there's such I think when there's such a saturated market as there is a boardgaming, and having something that we can kind of anchor to and make our decision off of, is really helpful. So

Dan Apsey: 41:10

have you ever used BGG for a specific needs or you touch base on it a minute ago with regards to using it for a specific purpose? Which was something that I now can't remember sleeve sizes? So it was it sleeve sizes? So, other than that, is there anything I like? Is there any specific need that you use it for? So I had a couple of Halloweens ago, I needed to get some more kind of Halloween esque Games in. So BGG came to the rescue for not only play account, but also for theme games of Halloween based games, and I just want to use it for

Kerley: 41:46

how about Christmas quiz questions.

Dan Apsey: 41:50

Christmas quiz question. Yeah.

Kerley: 41:52

Are you referring to three times fast?

Dan Apsey: 41:54

I can't speak fast naturally. Did you use it last year? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And

Adrian: 42:02

we'll probably be using it again.

Dan Apsey: 42:03

This year. This year is coming soon. But Davey, any specific use that you can think of that might be unique to anybody else?

Davey: 42:12

That's a strange one. Because careful, so unique to anyone else. I don't think there's going to be unique because everyone's put that there for a reason. But I have used it to find some alternative rules for some games, maybe sometimes to see if people have see what other bits Yeah, but I've never actually really played it with their own rulings. I've just been more intrigued about what other people have fought off mechanic wise and what they've brought to the table. So I've used it for that official expansion I do like reading amateur reviews on there as well as you get a different sense of opinion from someone who's kind of more of an average gamer or average board Gamer and I just find it quite interesting. I mean, this kind of what got me into doing the podcast anyways is not same thing

Kerley: 43:04

for the only thing I've used it for recently is fan made maps on me but with a Terraforming Mars Yeah, that was where I got my initial idea to use the fan made ones that I got done in neoprene. Thank you. Yeah, neoprene that was good about it is if they got their own. I was gonna call them a PDS that hydrate pdf of all the rules editions and stuff like that, that they've got. Did you order them through BGG? So no, but they were from the BGG forum that the board game trade and chat got them from and they did a mass order. Nice. But actually, it's a lot of the some of the maps that are with the new prelude to Kickstarter that I funded has gotten the official versions of those maps, which they've taken those on then as well, which was then bought. So yeah,

Adrian: 44:00

this is the same as the Batman Gotham Chronicles. During lockdown, I used a fan made solo mode that became the official solo mode mode that they introduced in season three, so is quite a place for people to kind of test their mettle on designing things.

Kerley: 44:16

Well, something happens

Dan Apsey: 44:17

to them, one of the one of the tapestry expansions ended up being from a fanmade expansion. I think it was that would help with the arts track the fan, I believe I may be wrong on that. But I think I was right. And I read off on that. Just don't make any more tapestry make some more tapestry. I

Kerley: 44:34

mean, you've got to accept you're gonna have you know, the better you're like, I don't know how the hell they come up with that kind of thing. You know, yeah. I don't really think that's balanced or whatever. But as long as you're happy with that level of you know, I think with with a game that you're very familiar with, you just want to be a variation there. Absolutely.

Dan Apsey: 44:49

No, variety is the spice of life. So

Davey: 44:52

yeah,

Dan Apsey: 44:53

so the ball game hotness. I'm sure we all know what the ball game hotness is, for those who don't know, it is a list that gets updated. Periodically, well, pretty much life doesn't it as POS it's kind of new games are created and more buzz is created about them. Then this kind of list is generated and the more games are spoken about then the higher it appears on the list. Is this something that we are all kind of looking at religiously? I mean, is it a daily thing? It used to be a daily thing for me I know that used to be I used to look at it religiously all the time. But now, is that something that you're

Kerley: 45:27

unfamiliar with discussion and just say? Not at all?

Dan Apsey: 45:30

Not at all? No. Never.

Davey: 45:33

I used to get excited about it. Now I used I think I was like you to start, you would constantly go on there or what's new, what's new? What can I get my hands on? It's evolved into a thing that's just a bit of excitement now and again to school, what's the new hotness? And go and have a look and kind of peek behind the curtain and go. Oh, that's cool. That's up there. I've played that one. I've played this one. And I just use it more kind of light entertainment now.

Dan Apsey: 45:58

Yeah. light entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. So what's his product? Look, now? I've been on the beat.

Davey: 46:05

That's killed two minutes.

Dan Apsey: 46:07

I find that when I was I used to when I was into the hobby, that the star that I used to say, and look at it every day, and got nice rush at the start? Yeah, yeah, very much. It's cult of the new it's very cult with someone waving money. But no, but

Davey: 46:22

it's like a horse race going up. Yeah, I

Dan Apsey: 46:24

was all over it. And I was like, Oh, that games are made that looks amazing. Or let's get that in, I would be very, very cult of the new, while my own kind of personal kind of financial circumstances have changed. I can't afford to do that anymore. So I don't tend to do that. And I kind of stay off it. Because if I stay off the hotness list, and I'm gonna be tempted, yeah. But I still kind of keep my ear to the ground, you know, not necessarily from BGGo, but from others who got this. This just came out. And this is quite cool. And it could well be on the top 100 or the top the Hotness list? Yeah.

Adrian: 46:54

Yeah, I don't I think like, clearly, I don't really use it anymore. I think it's, I think it's a bit of a trap, in some respects, because anything can put it to the top of the hotness, like, it could be bad things like print issues and stuff like that. And just everyone going on the forums to ask, Was I supposed to have 12 of these or 15 of these, like the rulebook says, and suddenly, if enough people have spoken about it in the forum?

Dan Apsey: 47:15

Is that how the algorithm works? Is it just is it writing? Or is it having it? Was it was it clicking on it and searching for it?

Adrian: 47:21

I don't know. Exactly. But I do know that like, I think it was wingspan, reshapes at the top of the list when it was out of print. And people were really annoyed of how long it was out of print for a while, and it shot to the top of the list then and there was another one. I want to say it was monsterpocalypse. But it might have been it was another sort of Kickstarter that might never get delivered sort of deal where it shot to the top of the hot list because suddenly everyone was on there like review bombing it and

Dan Apsey: 47:48

things like that as well. But yeah, that appeared to the top.

Adrian: 47:51

I don't remember that. I suppose. Yeah, I just don't really use it for anything anymore. Because I think it is if you're a reviewer or you are the publisher or developer of a game or something that it's great for you to get a picture of what is being talked about a little bit more, but as a consumer I find it a bit of a trap quite often I find it funny to see what fell off within a week shot straight to like number one or number two, yeah, and then before the Kickstarter has even ended or whatever, it's suddenly off the top of the hotness and I think to myself, well that's probably not going to be the hit that that top of the hotness section suggested would be Yeah, because if it's shot back down the hotness that quickly, it's like a wheel flash in a pan sort of things pattern with that and the way that the campaign has kind of been I think that's just my pessimistic brain at work.

Davey: 48:43

Do you sit there and go? Oh, yeah.

Dan Apsey: 48:46

I knew it. I knew I couldn't

Adrian: 48:50

sit there in a chair. I can turn around

Davey: 48:55

next door neighbor's cat Doctor

Dan Apsey: 49:04

Yes, Mr. Bigglesworth.

Adrian: 49:10

shall call it preparation at

Dan Apsey: 49:16

the BGG top 100 Now I mentioned that in comparison to the hotness then people are more kind of in tune perhaps with that list or not.

Kerley: 49:26

I do use that list a little bit but more a bit of a although I haven't played that game yet. That might be worth having a look at. Yeah, so that I've looked through it before with that kind of head on. Yeah, it's what got me into it and will kill me but I'm going to call it crocodile but even like crokinole or something like that. But yeah, so crocodile, that's what got me into that is. Yeah, sorry. I'm the last one. What the hell is that? Same? I did the same thing. Yeah. You know, and there's quite a few on there that I have yet to play that I'm like, really should get around to doing that. It's a bit like, you know, I treated the same now I'm into the hobby is kind of like the top 100 films you must see before you die sort of thing. Yeah. Just trying to tick them off just to see what everyone's talking about. There are some games I'd probably skip play any legacy games or any campaign games, things like that. But one off plays a valid idea. So how much I love legacy games, but it's just it's one of those that I think you need to do a bit more research because it's more of a an event of more of a long term kind of thing. Yeah, rather than just one and done.

Davey: 50:24

Yeah. How correct or how much weight do you put behind the top 100

Kerley: 50:30

I don't massively because it's a to do with a mass appeal, which doesn't always mean my appeal is one of the big parts, and also things that are a new sometimes take a little bit of time to get on there. Yeah. So not massively. It's more of a bit of a historical kind of, you know, nudge. This is popular, you know,

Davey: 50:49

what's what stood the test of time? Yeah, exactly.

Kerley: 50:51

Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, there's got to be something in it if it's in the top 100 of board games ever, of which on the BDG there's what I've seen once in the sort of high four figures, ranking wise, so you know, if you've made it into the top 100 100 It's gonna be testing Dune.

Dan Apsey: 51:11

Yeah. Where's Dune now?

Davey: 51:12

It's made its Yeah, yeah.

Kerley: 51:16

I was gonna say

Davey: 51:18

100. Yeah, but what I'm saying is it that's quite recent game. Yeah.

Adrian: 51:24

It's not unusual to it's not unusual for games to seven.

Davey: 51:30

Yeah, yeah.

Adrian: 51:32

Yeah. It's not unusual. It's like Gloomhaven slowly falling down, because I'm sure frost Haven will slowly rise to the surface. And I think it'll find more I think, because of the way that the ranking works over time when this is getting less reviews. gloom, gloom Haven I'm pointing it in Gloomhaven gets less reviews, it will slowly slipped down and frosthaven will get more reviews and it will slowly go

Davey: 51:53

up everything and will frosthavens got load more admin and I actually think its biggest downside

Kerley: 51:58

as well. I'd much rather play gloomhaven than frosthaven

Davey: 52:02

on the same since

Adrian: 52:03

Since the release of Frosthaven, Gloomhaven's gone down

Davey: 52:07

Yeah, they're gonna do Gloomhaven 2.0 Tsunami. And that

Adrian: 52:11

is a big point. I think in the top 100. There are four multiples for remember correctly, games that have appealed to printings, or rework, really, and both of those games have ended up it's certainly in the top two 300 There's quite a few of them where you've got multiples of the same game, just printed at different times or whatever. They end up like repeatedly in the top 100 And so that kind of does sort of skew the fact that the top 100 is really the top 96 or whatever Yeah, yeah,

Kerley: 52:44

let's just have a look at the top 20 I think the only game that I haven't played on the top 20 If you disclude if you don't include the legacy game is actually the castles of Burgundy.

Adrian: 52:54

You played Twilight Struggle.

Kerley: 52:55

Yeah, got it.

Dan Apsey: 52:58

It was it was number one for you.

Kerley: 53:00

I don't know whether I should say this for the pod but I don't really care anyway. But it was the game first game and Well, first and only game I got accidental pirated. Oh, no, I ordered it. Yeah, I think it was Amazon, which I've learned from another order. But yeah, I mean, it's a very good copy. To be fair, but you know, it's probably better than the original. But yeah,

Adrian: 53:22

there you go. Great. Western Trail is number 3015. That, I think it used to be around number 12. And that's now slowly falling down. And second edition is now coming up because you do get this sort of weird shift and additions come out and people learn to rate the new edition over the interesting some sometimes it doesn't happen though. So Castles of Burgundy's 16. But there's been two editions since that's come out. Yeah. And it hasn't really fallen because a lot of people just seem to vote for the original original.

Kerley: 53:54

I wonder whether it's deliberate on their part whether they actually don't want to amalgamate them into one because there are going to be some games that don't do a very good job of their own game, right?

Dan Apsey: 54:01

Yeah, looking at that list. I've now so I'm not looking at the 100 list for a little while, but I didn't realise that Gloomhaven has now dipped to third. But I remember the hoo ha. Between brass Birmingham and gloomhaven when brass Birmingham took over gloomhaven and the uproar that it caused from both sides of this battlefield of people didn't review bombing the other one because the because brass had taken over so they just reviewed on it yeah, I thought was completely bizarre. But I also find that the Peaky

Davey: 54:34

Blinders on it was a bit flat caps a

Dan Apsey: 54:39

little bit surprised that brass Birmingham is still there at number one. Don't get me wrong, often the game is fantastic. But I I am surprised that it's at number one.

Davey: 54:48

I think it's for a game that's got a load of crunch. It's actually quite accessible. Anything that really helps for for a year.

Adrian: 54:56

I mean the top, the top 50 The average game weight and again, I've got problems with the weight mechanic. But if you look at it, if you just kind of use it as a bit of a barometer, the top 50 is 3.5 White, which is kind of that upper end of midweight. And so for me it's less so now but BGG used to be really heavy weight, like the top games or like through like I mean 3d ages is still here somewhere. I'm not saying there's not but it tends to sit like heavier. And even Pandemic Legacy is definitely heavier than basic pandemic. Yeah, it's just it's a legacy. experience that's probably one of the best legacy experiences in my opinion that there is so sure, but it does tend to it does tend to sit at 3.5 Like for that top 50 Yeah, that's with crokinole in there at 1.2 dragging that way in down,

Davey: 55:50

it's got a 1.2 Flicking game

Adrian: 55:52

I'm sure. I'm sure it's 1.2 is not terribly complicated.

Dan Apsey: 55:56

In the top 100 I

Davey: 55:57

think it'd be like a point five, I

Adrian: 55:59

think the

Davey: 56:00

lowest ones the lowest is I believe so. 1.23

Adrian: 56:04

Hey, guy.

Davey: 56:04

Yeah. So two point 3.23 over should be set in a one.

Adrian: 56:11

So I think that the top 50 interests to a lesser extent the top 100 runs on the slightly heavier side. So again, like I use I'll have a look at BGG like, top 100 What you look at I don't say that to people who ask about like you're new into the hobby anymore, because it runs so heavy that I think if you looked at that and you went let's play brass Birmingham, that's number one. I probably scare you away like not everyone would. But I think a lot of people getting into the hobby. taking their first steps would run away at Rosenberg,

Kerley: 56:40

I think you're better off Whenever I've had someone asked a similar question. I wonder what kind of things do you like and just trying to drill down on what I think they would like and putting them in a one of the more accessible games out there? I type?

Adrian: 56:52

It depends on time again, doesn't it? If you're having a very quick conversation with someone you go look, have a quick look at BGG if you having a more nuanced conversation, then yes, you can sort of what do you like what have you enjoyed what you've played so far? But yeah, I used to so I look at BGG. And now I sort of say I'll have a look at like IGN or something that they've started publishing like the top 20 games to start with.

Dan Apsey: 57:11

Yeah. Shall we go on to the next segment? Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, gentlemen, here we go. Would you rather own every game in the BGG top 100 in its current state, and no other game ever again. Or remove every game from your collection? That's in the BGG top 100. But you're given every new release to yourself free of charge afterwards.

Kerley: 57:51

hundredths of a second one?

Adrian: 57:52

Yep. Yeah, yeah, it's easy.

Dan Apsey: 57:55

So you would get rid of TM yet you get rid of them all. We

Adrian: 57:59

just have to get rid of Ares expedition or the dice version, because that's very true.

Kerley: 58:03

But even even if they were I'm always going to be more of a fan of the future. Is there the cost of waiting? Yeah, no, not even the call of the new the call of the you know, ever hopeful. Anachrony was a new game at one time?

Dan Apsey: 58:16

It was I bought that completely.

Kerley: 58:20

No, but all of them were on there. But the point of it all, most of my favourite games, you can guarantee you're going to be at the top 100 Yeah, but I've I have hope for the future.

Dan Apsey: 58:29

Because I bought an act on when literally saw the box. Didn't even didn't didn't Google it did BGG nothing was bought on a whim. Yeah, maybe? Well,

Kerley: 58:40

I suppose I've always had this from books in the fact of I don't think with music. I don't think I've listened to my favourite song yet. That sort of thing, you know? So I'm much more. It's very philosophical.

Davey: 58:51

Yeah. Now I'll probably die soon. So I'll go for the first one.

Dan Apsey: 58:59

You go for the first one. Yeah, why not? Well, what have you got in that in that one?

Davey: 59:03

I can still play the other games right. After this. Bye. Oh, he's gone.

Kerley: 59:11

We're going on technicalities. I'll give you that first one.

Dan Apsey: 59:14

So let's play no technicality Yeah, fine.

Davey: 59:17

Play the first one just because there's so many good games on that one. So

Dan Apsey: 59:21

what would you want to you never want to get rid of it?

Davey: 59:25

Was this guy project Dune Imperium aren't no over brass. Birmingham. Great Western Trail. There's so many good ones. Yeah. Anachrony. Then you've got a load of I think it's got a load of servers on there as well On Mars. I don't think web machines made on the

Adrian: 59:45

low because it's not that I really liked the most hated the most low rated the server. No,

Davey: 59:52

I love this one.

Adrian: 59:53

I think it's, this is again, a really off tangent. But I think it's because it's an abstract theme. Because I think the mechanics are strong and strong, as strong as a lot of the other researchers but I think because it's a weird theme, because it's quite hard to teach as a theme doesn't have a natural flow. Like, for instance Kanban or Vinhos and stuff like that has a much more natural This is why I'm doing it. Yeah, Weather machine is not it's like well, you're trying to fix the wind and the rain and it just doesn't quite an immense

Davey: 1:00:23

more wind and rain. So I think it is I do and so

Adrian: 1:00:27

yeah, it's the one with the lowest the highest number

Davey: 1:00:31

six So as to why you're doing this. Yeah, but the mechanics are the most fun for me. Interesting.

Adrian: 1:00:41

Definitely the second one and my technicalities, because I can own a different edition of it. Nice costs a burgundy Special Edition that's like 400 and something at the moment are quite like 16.

Dan Apsey: 1:00:54

It's thought about it. Yep.

Kerley: 1:00:55

It might be a technicality, but it's away from like, you know, the main point of the question. Yeah, well, okay. Well,

Davey: 1:01:01

you can, you know, you'll get them but then people burn it in front of you soon as you will never get to play as

Adrian: 1:01:05

soon as the essence of this one. Yeah. But even like, like, pandemic, the original is in the top 100. But Liberia is better, in my opinion. And 124 126. Somewhere around

Kerley: 1:01:17

Yeah, that's fine. Because it's a different game is it's, it's,

Adrian: 1:01:21

it's a reskin with the part of the expansion, throwing in a few extra rules is not massively different. It's not my

Kerley: 1:01:28

least it's not volume to second

Davey: 1:01:30

edition, you only own new games, so you won't even be able to have that one anyway. No, it's just not in the top four, you just said that you get every new

Adrian: 1:01:39

year, you would still get new every every new game even in the top 100.

Davey: 1:01:42

I thought you could only play every new game, because then you're like, yeah, it's a real gamble. Yeah. What is this shit year of games, you'd be like, Oh, I'm gonna pray that never happens.

Adrian: 1:01:51

But yeah, I genuinely think that there's normally I am more bothered generally by numbers like 100 to 300 than I am the top 100. I have some games that are in the top 100 that I really like, brass Birmingham, is up there, Dune Imperium is up there. I've already played legacy season one, but that's number two. And that was a particular favourite of mine. But quite often, I find the games that I really like, tend to sit in that two to 300 or sort of 100 to 300, I should say. They tend to just be those sort of more midweight euros, perhaps a little bit of a drier theme. Perhaps the quality of the production isn't quite as nice. Or, you know, maybe it's lovely. Like the special edition costs. Burgundy just hasn't got there yet. But yeah, I tend to find that's where my sweet spot is like, there are quite a few games in the top 100 I like but a lot of my big favourites are numbers 100 to 300. And

Dan Apsey: 1:02:46

what's interesting, though, I wouldn't say that was the same for my collection at all was in most of the loggers and the top 100. For that reason, I would say doctrine one, I couldn't get rid of my little babies. So I'd have to state that to be top 100 Just stay with it. And then I'd have that for me. There's just too many in there. We want to get rid of like Anachrony, and Ark Nova, TM.

Adrian: 1:03:05

And when everyone's talking about the new hotness, you can't then that's fine.

Dan Apsey: 1:03:08

I won't touch it. I still love my baby is kind of a shelf of shame to know that that's a good thing, you know, is a good thing. The good thing about this, this, there's just too many in there that I would love. I couldn't I couldn't find it difficult to part ways. Yeah,

Davey: 1:03:24

I

Kerley: 1:03:24

think you would regret. I don't mean you. I mean, whoever goes for option one, I think would regret it within a couple of years.

Dan Apsey: 1:03:31

Do you reckon?

Kerley: 1:03:31

Yeah. Once you see like, you know, like fully full, you would never have been able to play it very true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, those type of games, they're just, you know, there's always something like you could pick out top three every year of each of your types. And you'd be like, yeah, that is amazing. Can

Adrian: 1:03:48

I just say as much as like I love you know, great western trail. There will be another Pfister game out there, that's maybe not quite as good because it's not at the top 100. But would if you really didn't need to play if you really couldn't play the top 100. That would do probably just as good a job. Yeah, like all like 90% of the job that that one in the top 100 would do you find something this

Davey: 1:04:11

is when the market collapses next year, and there's no more board games ever being made. And we'll be sitting there are hundreds pile of games, and I'm

Adrian: 1:04:20

allowed from 100 down to 1600. Only

Davey: 1:04:24

new games fully established. That was not the rules.

Dan Apsey: 1:04:35

Now it's time for our penultimate turn. So folks, if you've got coming up.

Kerley: 1:04:42

So in a couple of weeks time, I've got my first play of Paladins of the West kingdom, which has been on my shelf for about three years. I remember ordering online and being really excited about it. And then it sat in cellophane for three years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That doesn't come out. So yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting that to the table because I think it's going to be game I loved architects. And I understand that it's very different, but equally as good, if not better. So I'm really looking forward to getting into that. A bit of chunky monkey apparently, yeah,

Adrian: 1:05:13

it's, it's got a few more choices to make. And it's got that sort of plethora of Do you want to upgrade something or do you want to actually do an action that gives you something you know, how much upgrading do you do when you stop doing the upgrading and start doing the actual bit that gives you points. There's a lot in there that I think you Like I was I think you originally had it up for player and I sort of said don't do four player it'll take you forever. And it's just I like it a two player. I think it's a great two player game.

Kerley: 1:05:42

We're playing it four player

Adrian: 1:05:43

Are you playing at four, did you change it? Whose the fourth

Kerley: 1:05:47

It's Becky, I want to say yeah, Becky,

Adrian: 1:05:50

it will be fine. It will take too long. And you will feel like you're waiting a while between turns. Which is I think the downsides of it. I think that's why it's better at two or three players.

Kerley: 1:06:01

I think with a learning game. I think that's okay. Trying to take it all in on everyone else's.

Dan Apsey: 1:06:05

You should probably just get your own back at me and make sure you keep me up until 2am. Yeah, I seem to like to do that too. Yeah, you do. But he's my favourite thing right now. Yeah,

Adrian: 1:06:13

yeah, the thing you will need to do most likely is to buy an insert because it barely fits back in the box. And

Kerley: 1:06:18

that's one focus. That's Becky. Yeah.

Adrian: 1:06:22

I just printed one recently, because I've had it sat on the top of a shelf with like, the good sort of centimetre and a half of lift lid, where I couldn't fit all back in, I couldn't have i sleeved it, and then couldn't fit it all back in the box, just because I sleeved it. So I've had to print out and insert just to

Kerley: 1:06:38

do probably one of those. Probably do buy an insert or get rid of it. Yeah, it's just one of the most, maybe

Davey: 1:06:47

around the corner. So my office is nearly done. So I'm excited about that. Because then I'm gonna play Marco Polo, too. Yeah, really good. Kind of mid weight Euro, all about dice manipulation and then using candles to manipulate the dice to then go into action spots. Yeah, exactly. trade those candles, but everyone's kind of got unique powers as well. And then you kind of go along and you get more actions for your your, your good heart kind of go down the Silk Road. But as you go down, you then get more actions which are on the board and open up. It depends which direction everyone goes. Good game really good game. I played a lot of it when I first got it. Because nothing was ever locked down when I got it. So I played with my family a lot. And then I kind of overplayed it. So I haven't bought back to the table. And I thought you know what, that you guys haven't, you know, played or experienced this market priorities. So that'd be a good little introduction game to the law office and yeah, slightly thought. Yeah, yeah. Pretty good to have. Yeah, every time I played it, I've really enjoyed it. So I second fought against the table again,

Kerley: 1:08:02

nice about you. I

Dan Apsey: 1:08:05

am trying to get more of my shelf of shame played and trying to get some of those games that have kind of like seen one or two plays and are still on the shelf. Specifically Feast for Odin. I really like Uwe games anyway, but Feast for Odin is just one of those games that doesn't tend to come out very often, but I do really really like it. I'm a massive fan of Tetris. So any any games that have tetromino isn't it I'm all over it. Although when looking at them I look at okay, but Feast for Odin is more is more crunchy. So I prefer the crunchy. And I do really like it

Davey: 1:08:43

up and put downs. Bit of a bitch. Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 1:08:47

there's just a lot to it.

Davey: 1:08:49

There's a lot of a lot of moving parts.

Dan Apsey: 1:08:51

Yes. But set aside that is I really like the game. It's yeah, really good. I really enjoy and I though I think Caverna is more accessible. And I think I think that gets more plays on my table. But Feast for Odin is just if anyone was a little bit more crunched a little bit more weight on top of it then that comes out but it's not often but I'm looking forward to getting that played. And also, bamboo is a little tiny little game in the same universe as Bitoku. which I bought at the UK games Expo this year that is still sat on my shelf of shame that needs to get out so that he's gonna be playing video

Davey: 1:09:29

games and yes, that's right. Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 1:09:32

So I'm look forward to playing that. Looks like it looks like a good like a good midweight game in a small box. Yeah.

Davey: 1:09:39

So you're good at doing that. Yeah. digestible games.

Dan Apsey: 1:09:42

Yeah. Yes. White Castle was one of the new hotness

Adrian: 1:09:46

is at the moment. I couldn't Essen you couldn't get close to the table without waiting for ages for a demo. Yeah, you

Davey: 1:09:53

played that. Yeah. And three rings, which is there ever one? Yeah. That's really yeah, they're both really good. Nice. Both very good midweight games. They've leant towards the quicker side. So I think two player we actually got White Castle done in like, sub 17 minutes. Yeah. So it's pretty quick, nice. And it felt crunchy. Yeah. They've done a good job with that. Really? Yeah, I did feel like oh, I want more. But then when you look at it, if you have more, you probably would have done everything so it's actually better they trim that back and give you bid for tighter space work

Adrian: 1:10:34

nice. Yeah, Devir is Devir catches my interest a lot at the moment. Yeah,

Davey: 1:10:39

that's a cent. They're really good at making kind of digestible midway. Yeah, crunchy games.

Adrian: 1:10:45

Nice. Nice. Okay, yeah, I'm genuinely struggling I think it's my new level of Zen I've got over my shelf of shame, which means that I'm not you've ascended above I'm not sort of scrambling to try and get all games in where I can just get through the shelf of shame quicker so I'm really struggling I think an unfortunate I think the timing is going to be slightly off on this from when we record to when we release it. But the news came out recently about a very exciting game by a publisher that I'm putting more and more trust in, which is Diablo the board game I immediately sent to a couple of friends when Yeah, I'm buying it and as I'll probably get there don't care buying it. Because I think Diablo has that fandom about it. And I've played Diablo four but also Yeah, glass cannon unplugged. They're, they're increasingly getting my respect for what they do with these IP board games. Whereas a lot of other companies that deal with big IP see more like I think I've seen for Trent mo simple, slowly losing my like the what's the term? Like how I feel about how they're going to produce a game, like my respect for like what they're going to do? No, I haven't. But I've seen people play it looks interesting enough that I'd probably give it a go. Unfortunately, didn't win one of the 14 copies given away at 24 hour event. But Yeah, Diablo Diablo came out. And immediately it piqued my interest. And the Kickstarter is due out I think in the next sort of few months or whatever I don't know, when

Dan Apsey: 1:12:20

I imagined it will be based on based on the IP that it'd be like, Go gangbusters. Here's the basic pledge, which has a few bits, but here's your inputs, it has everything which

Adrian: 1:12:31

I dislike. And with what they've done with Apex was they listened to a lot of feedback about how few characters you've got in the race, and then how they put in loads of cool 3d parts. And they then took out a lot of the cool 3d parts and put more characters in and you had a true choice of both. Yeah, and I've got a funny feeling that they'll have looked at that for the Diablo as well. And maybe offering two different levels like a game, a pledge, and a sort of an artsy pledge where you get all the 3d printed stuff

Kerley: 1:12:57

depends on much I saw it advertised and I'm happy now that I know it's them that that's makers because I wasn't aware of that, I kind of assumed it would be an IP kind of money grab. To be honest,

Dan Apsey: 1:13:09

it's interesting to know how to convert the mechanics of the video game into that because I mean, if it's if it's if it's good dungeon crawler, as I've already mentioned, I'm going to step back a bit if it were like what the double Apex Apex was fantastic yet made an apex after playing Apex on one job. This is not the kind of sort of game that I play. But it's clever and how they done it.

Adrian: 1:13:31

I was total skaters kind of games, we played apex. And I was like, I've got back this now because I can show it to a lot of people who are also off those kinds of games. And I reckon I'd get them back into that kind of thing. We played Dying Light that needed a bit of work at the essence. Yeah, but I think they've done some good stuff with it. And with a bit of polishing, it could turn into a really good rendition of that. I've been really pessimistic about Kickstarters. Generally, at the moment, I don't tend to even really get paid too much attention at the moment. But when I saw that one came come out, I thought this could be the one that was publishing for Diamond. It's what the board game or the board game, the board game is still in like beta mode. But yeah, it's it's glass. Yeah, so they've been doing some really good things that I've seen with board game, I believe

Davey: 1:14:22

that he's swinging with big IPS now, especially

Adrian: 1:14:25

once you get Apex imagined going that we've got the apex IP, and we've done stuff that people love with it, I reckon you can probably get quite a good buy into it to picking up other IP. So I'm quietly not quite like some announcing it. But I'm optimistic on a game that I probably wouldn't be if it was with a different publisher. For the same IP. Yes. I'm quite looking forward to see what they do with it. And

Dan Apsey: 1:14:48

with that, our final turn is wrapping up and victory points are about to be scored. Thank you, everyone for listening. If you've enjoyed the show, please like subscribe and review on your podcast player of choice. And we ask you to share the podcast with at least one other person who you think would enjoy this. Also, if you want to support the show and become a subscriber to help shape our future content, you can visit our page on coffee. And also it's coming back folks. The Christmas quiz. The Christmas quiz. I'm excited you excited? Yeah, I'm

Kerley: 1:15:15

looking forward to a better showing that I gave last time so I'm very disappointed. Really? Yeah. Well, I'd

Davey: 1:15:20

be meeting Yeah, I

Kerley: 1:15:21

know. JP one again, can

Davey: 1:15:25

you did pick them? Good question.

Kerley: 1:15:28

Maybe I'll just come up with some that are like you know, yeah,

Dan Apsey: 1:15:31

which mechanic was my In 1958 that featured how many tokens

Davey: 1:15:35

are in this board game.

Adrian: 1:15:36

The third play tester on

Davey: 1:15:41

last name only Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 1:15:43

we will be back again next time with another episode but until then, anyway