TURN 1 - Player Count
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whose turn is it Anyway is excited to announce that we are helping to organize and sponsor the much loved Devon Borg
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game weekend at the Fox and Hounds hotel in edisford near exitor this event begins on Friday the 8th of November
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until Sunday the 10th of November for more details about the event and where to get your tickets Please check out the
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show notes and we'll direct you to where you need to go hope to see you there [Music]
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hi and welcome to whose turn is it Anyway a podcast about our gaming group and of course board games I'm Chris P
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quicker than your convention oven and your current first player and I'm joined today by other players Adrien hello Rob
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hello and Dan how's it going excellent thank you very much how are we doing today gentlemen really well yourself yes
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not too bad thank you it's been a very short week nice everything's been very fast work has been ridiculously quick as
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is my bedroom Antics wow all right then guys let's talk about
TURN 2 - Let's Talk About Hex
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hex this is the part of the podcast where we talk about things we've been up to recently and it can be about anything
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at all I'll start as a peak behind the curtain it's only been literally a week since my last recording and apart from
Chris P - No games just desk cycling...what the hell is desk cycling?
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playing Frost Haven on my regular Friday night session I've literally done nothing else so I will briefly talk
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about how I sit like an idiot for the last 10 years I've been working it from home and I've developed an awful habit
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of sitting like an idiot cross-legged on a on a chair uh it's not good for me and my knees are broken so I bought myself
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an under desk cycling thing you know we just all sit there you can't see my arms but I'm doing the arms of a cycle thing
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so like pedal without bike pedaling um so I've been trying to do that for like a few hours every day just to make my
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legs do something other than just sit underneath me um that's my description of it all right they sit underneath me
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that's literally where my legs go it's technically correct but it sounds wrong I know it's great isn't it um so yeah
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I've been trying to do that but it's really not working I take a phone call I do some help and then I realize that I'm
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enjoying the call at some point I've sat cross-legged and I need to work on that so that's literally my week has been
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trying to take my mind off of doing that specific thing and doing something else
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it explains all the deep breathing while we were playing Xbox the other night so I'm oddly like you know happy about this
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it's all like when we get to the end of the session I got oh my knise I don't wonder what the hell have you been doing yeah exactly you have me
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peeking round curtains I I I don't know why you're peeking round curtains whose
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curtains are you peeking round is it your own would you like to know my friend would you like to know it's a
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secret for me and me alone this rant over Rob how about you
Rob - Burncycle
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uh I haven't been up to a lot really um I've got a game that we played recently but I want to talk about on the episode
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so I'm going to save that for a little bit but um we've got a game booked in tomorrow day which is odd but um JP's
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got a day off and as I'm working with JP if he's got a day off I've got a day off which is actually quite nice so we've
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decided to play burn cycle haven't played it for a while been itching to kind of play it for for quite a while
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but it's a long game Metal Gear it's I love it it's so good and I won it at last year's grid conon and I haven't got
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it out of the box yet so um really really looking forward to kind of tackling that um cuz I've never I've
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never beaten it I've never completed a mission I've never beat a mission so uh so yeah looking forward to playing that
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tomorrow um as it's obviously one of my favorites and one I haven't played in in over a year so really looking forward to
Dan - Cantaloop
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it how about you Dan uh I have just moved house and Oly when you move house
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will your games get packed away and then you get your games out
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again yeah yay and then you get to rearrange them on your shelves uh and I
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discovered that I have Canal Loop still on that shelf uh on my shelf of Shame so
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I thought I'd get it out and have a little play around and it is quite good I grew up with broken sword as a kid uh
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Broken Sword was was amazing playing all through those on PC you're looking at me like as if you've never played them before Rob I'm already in no I already
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to the point where I bought it like 3 weeks ago the original the original nice nice it looks like the
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gallerist it what the board game no it looks like art Society but I got art Society confused with the gallerist this
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I know yes and that's where I made the mistake yes say cuz the gallerist looks nothing like no I know but art Society
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does vaguely look a little like like the art stle yeah yeah yeah I get that yeah the but the Galler is definitely not for
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anybody listening don't make that mistake no I don't think anyone else would that's the thing no they're very
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different games i a game as opposed to the heaviest game I've ever played that's where the mistake that I I made
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the yeah the galleris is pretty and it's not I mean it's it's it's okay it's not one of the greatest larders but it's
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pretty good luckily Adrian sat out of punching range of you right now you not like it or you love it the best one he's
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done you think he the best one he's done yeah by long way I disagree uh C Ban's a close second caman EV is amazing uh I
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love c i play the original I play play DV but um um I digress um with with uh
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caner loop Canal Loop is a Choose Your Own Adventure uh book in full color for
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one player where you are given um a brief uh story uh and you've got like a
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decoder that you use um to decipher hidden messages in this book and you're telling a story um kind of like an Ian
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living Stone um like you know choose your inventure book but on a bit more kind of more on steroids uh it's full
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color you've got cards in there you've got um um different things that you um that you take on your your journey and
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you like a magnifying glass and you combine it with other items to try and Advance through the story and uh they've
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done like three of them now I think uh it's very good if you fancy a little one player little little pick me up this
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sounds awesome how I missed this made by Lookout games it's very very good comes in in a book in a large book format and
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it's it's very good so far JP had a copy cuz he talked about it a long long time ago um he might still have his copy I'm
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guessing I don't know whether he it on or not but worth an ask if you can borrow it yeah I think I might have to that sounds right on my street yeah it's
Adrian - The White Castle
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good cool and last but not least Adrian yay me um so I shall be talking about um
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White Castle in a little bit to give you a little bit of a spoiler of what's coming up but what I wanted to talk about first was the bad batch because so
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I canceled my Disney Plus Membership a little while ago because I kind of wasn't watching what I felt like I
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should be watching and then I've started again so I started off with the Marvel stuff where slowly catching up with that
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but I wanted like a 20 minute 25 minute episode format where I could just pick up watch a couple of episodes whatever
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and I'd already watched season one of the bad batch and really enjoyed it and I didn't enjoy really Clone Wars I got
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like halfway through season five and just couldn't keep going with Clone Wars so I was always a bit hesitant about bad
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batch but really loved it um and so I've watched the the season 2 and season 3
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and I was about to call it the last two seasons because I think it is but it's
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not definitive so really enjoyed it the the two seasons are kind of really just one
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extra long season there's not there's kind of a stopping point but it flows so perfectly into season 3 that it feels
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like it's one log they've they've written it all as one piece and then they've divided it into two seasons so
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at the end of season three and I can't I don't want to give any spoilers away or anything like that at the end of season
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3 there's kind of like a deliberate sort of stop Point as though this is it and
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then they did the they done the usual thing which is like however if you need us you know where we are and it is I
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genuinely for the first time in a long time so the ending wasn't particularly sad or happy but it was really good and
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how I felt about the idea of a season 4 I couldn't tell you because I love the idea of what you'd have to do to put a
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season 4 in but if they never did a season 4 and they ended it like that I think I'd be just as happy and there's
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not many times a TV series has left me feeling like sort of they feel like they've probably and again it's probably
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they've probably ended it at the end of these three seasons in a really good place you've had a a good ending that
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just was full of sort of emotions but not particularly strongly like one yay or boo sort of emotion at the end of it
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um and then you're like oh there could be a season 4 and I think I'd be happy if there was a season 4 but if there
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wasn't a season 4 I would also be just as happy cuz they've done a good job of
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of telling the story of the bad batch in the three seasons I can see Rob nodding at me is that have you watch I I'm going
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to go back to the point that you made that you got halfway through season five the the the last few series of the
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Clones Wars are some of the best Star Wars writing I've ever seen leading into
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Rebels rebels is incredible and the first series the first season which I
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think it's only about Eight Episodes long it's not that is the typical introduction to Star Wars that everybody gets so we you kind of know where it's
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going and then it hits you like a sledgehammer and is incredible so what I say is if if you genuinely like the bad
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batch go back and finish Clone Wars because I guarantee you you're love the ending it's incredible anyway that was
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bad batch very quickly onto White Castle cuz I know we've talked about it before I finally so I think I've been talking
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about this game since Essen last year before that was it yeah might have even been before that cuz it would have
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been in doing prep for Essen that I sort of came across this game and I've been itching and itching to play it and every
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time someone's got a game in or whatever I've just not been able to make it and then finally on Sunday got to play White
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Castle and absolutely loved it the idea of that it's just those nine turns the
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dice aren't really rolled like the dice aren't really dice they're just kind of a randomizer to set you up um the idea
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of having the value that you can go above or like if you're below it you spend more coins if you're above it you
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get coins I is great um and then just the idea of how many actions can you
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squeeze out of these nine dice basically across the whole game was fantastic and
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and myself and the friend I was playing with at the time immediately started to list off all the people we thought would
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really enjoy it which is normally a pretty good sign of a game right as if you're like I want to show this to this person this person this person this
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person this person so yeah instantly fell in love with it I think it's the design is the um um the board design I
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think is very good um and the symbology is I think it looks worse than it
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actually is I think when I was looking at the board I was thinking oh the symbology is a little bit messy there's only one that's slightly awkward um
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which is uh take any white background effect but it's got the castle in it so it looks like do the um ctia action but
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in a different color and I was like I don't know why that is and I had to look at the sheet other than that it all totally makes sense um and yeah just
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thoroughly enjoyed it and and glad I finally got to play it you you turned me on to this game cuz you were talking you were talking about it at Essen and then
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um mark from ninj Geek games was playing it and he said oh do you know anyone I was like yeah I know Adrian but you were
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knackered and you just went and and crashed and ever since then every time I've see it I think oh it's Adrian's
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game and then and then I played it and I was like this is definitely an Adrian like this like a Spike Lee Joint this is
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like an Adrian joint you know what I mean is is perfect so I'm really glad that you got to play play it yeah and
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and I got the joy of also 3D printing an insert for it so it all fits back in the Box perectly absolutely not it was it
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was a it's a lot of it's a surprisingly large amount of printing for such a small box yeah so I managed to find
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someone who had printed all the bridges so that the dice and the bridges go in the same box so they printed the bridges
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itself a bridge you could print a bridge but it's not it's designed for the cardboard Bridges and the dice to fit in
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a box and then it's got the meoo parts in it where you just simply turn it over
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take the lid off and all the me pools are exactly where they need to be on the grid oh jeez and then it's got holes in
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the bottom so when you take the me out you can still see the symbol underneath that you need to be able to see um and
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then he'd done some cards and bits and pieces whoever designed this but I didn't like a lot of it so I ended up
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going through and redesigning everything else so I took the the player pieces and I took the bridge inserts and then was
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like I kind of see what you've done here but I think there's a smarter way to and it took me hours and hours and hours to
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design this thing um but I've managed to fit it all in but man I think it was about 4 days worth of printing not full
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full constantly but I've printed I think i' I think I printed Spirit Island in a day and a half and yet which is like
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twice the box and loads of components and yeah because it's lots of little Lids lots of little boxes and all that
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lot it was it was an unfun print in itself the design I had loads of fun
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with because it was such a Tetris challenge that I had a great time doing that but the actual printing of it was
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horrible I had to do multiple prints and all sorts so an absolute pig to get in the I can imagine insert it's the same
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with paladins of the West Kingdom paladins of the West Kingdom barely fits in the Box just as it is and that's a
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fair that's a bit bigger box again and designing an insert for that that I was happy with took me forever
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and I'm still not particularly happy with the design for that box but it now actually all fits in and is all divided
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up as it needs to be and all that lot but yeah I quite enjoy doing them because it's quite the puzzle to try and
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make them all fit in but when it doesn't go right I have a little temper tantrum I'll be honest I I that sounds like way
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more work than I've ever put into storage of a solution of a game I've I've gone out and bought Ziplock bags to
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put um M tiles in on descent and Imperial ass salt and labeled them 1 to 10 11 to 20 and that that's been my you
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know that was cute I know does it work well it does when it did when we played it right and there we go that's what
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matters you talked about this on the last episode I think it was was or maybe the episode before that and I remember
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thinking that sounds really weird but it probably works cuz when when you've got
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you just shout out what tiles you need and I'm like oh there you go here's the bag when you've got all the expansions it doesn't go 1 to 10 10 to 20 it goes
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one to the original 30 come in the main box then it goes 60 to 70 then it will go from 80 to 90 and then
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it will go back and when you're playing the thing it's not like you get them all out of one section it'll say you need 11
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12 19 34 35 62 and you're like least annoy me about so at least if it's
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segmented and you think right there's only 10 in there it's it's not quite it's a bit easier yeah but it is a pain
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to store but it works when we play it so but that that that's that's the most I've done the thought the reason I
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haven't got burn cyle out since I won it was because the thought of packing that game away gives me mild panic
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attacks so the fact that you're engineering Tetris pieces to fit a game in like no I no that would that honestly
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i' I'd crawl up on a you know I'd fold up on a ball on the floor and cry and rock if that was me well my next project
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is the Primal insert good luck with that and the problem I've got is that my print bed isn't big enough and some of
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it needs to be loadbearing so I need to figure out a way to make interlocking pieces that are loadbearing what a
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beautiful game cuz the one that's i' the one you can buy online am my print bed doesn't quite
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fit it but I think I could do something with it but it's designed to fit all of the expansions I don't have all the expansions I don't know that I'll get
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all the expansions so and it's kind of an awkward kind of some bits are upside down and some bits
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are on their side like in Little slots and stuff I just I I want it to be neater and just for what I've got of the
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collection rather than for everything that turn so that's my next project and I'm I'm already swearing at that cuz
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I've basically got the pieces out on a board on like a little bit of paper I've drawn out trying to work out how I fit
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them all onto into each layer of the Box well that was one hell of a hex it was sorry and now on to the main
TURN 3 - Main Event: It's not you...it's me
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[Music]
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event so this episode's main event is something very near and dear to my heart and I hope it's something that everyone
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else has experienced at some point it's not you it's me b games we suck okay now I've voiced a number of times
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before on the podcast about various games that I'm just awful at no matter how many times I play them no matter who
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I play them with what time of day how many beers I've had during the game I just suck at them end of story so what
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are some games that you guys suck at and is there anything specific you can point out as to why let's start off with Dan I
Magicians, Dinosaurs, Red Planets & Trading in the Med
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love this game so much I've played it countless times I have
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I even backed it when it first came out and it was this company's very very first game the thought of gaining resources
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but not spending them puzzled me but the idea of being a Victorian magician just
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absolutely that just sounds amazing already exactly right the the theme took me from the GetGo yes I'm talking about
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treron however I absolutely suck at it I
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have played it probably at least 15 times at least I've
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played it with the dark alley Asos as it should be a standard but I have played it with novices and I played it without
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it but it doesn't matter in what capacity I played in it I'm I'm awful at it I don't know really kind of I can't
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specifically pinpoint the exact reason as to why it's just that that the people around the table seem to be able to just
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crunch that puzzle better than I can like Curly he's he's amazing at crunching that puzzle and I've just
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watched him and like my him and my score are so different between each other he's
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like you know 20 30 40 points ahead of me and I'm like how have you done this
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cuz I just suck nothing's H nothing's happened I feel like I'm pushing buttons I'm pulling levers nothing's going in
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the right way and I I can't work out why amazing game I love the game I love the
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theme I love the mechanics I love how the Theater Works how you're booking yourself a slot and I love it how the
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pieces form together and it all comes it all comes together nicely however mine
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looks more like a Picasso than a Monet it's horrendous love it that's brilliant Rob how about you I've been thinking
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about this all day and it's I I the only answer I can think of it's It's games that I want to be good at you what I
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mean it's themes that I love it's mechanics that I really
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enjoy but I just I just can't seem to to get it a little bit like yourself where you said that the puzzle I can't quite
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figure out the puzzle and it's games like Concordia love the theme love the
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love the game I love the way it works I just I couldn't get my head around it and it's it's not complicated game not
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not particularly like there are strategies there and there there are complications there but it's not you
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know it's it's not you know blindfolded Rubik's cube of a game but for some
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reason I just get lost and the other one which I I was thinking about today and I
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was like everybody loves this game I I can't stand it because not because it's a bad game but because I suck at it so
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badly that it made my experience of it so bad and that's perseverance no everything about that
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game I should love love it dinosaurs like great amazing I think what it is is it's games that and I think we've talked
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about this before is games where you have too many decisions to start with I
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think it's games where a part of the beauty of that game is going there you go there's 45 choices do whatever the
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hell you want that's cool I'm not that kind of guy I need
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direction and because it's kind of I liken it to I'm in a canoe with one
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paddle and I don't change sides I just go round and round and round and so what
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I've started doing is is with games that gives you a lot of choices is kind of pick a strategy and just stick with it
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at least for the first quarter of the game to kind of bed in and and kind of go from there like um also another one
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terraforming Mars now this has got a slight caveat is that we did a novice only game it was me Becky and uh Stuart
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I forgot to say how did you get on that loved it it's a great game Lov it it's amazing I've only ever played it with people that have played it a lot that
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know the cards know the Combos and know what combos into what across the you
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know the microbes and the animals and the oxygen and and everything else it all kind of flows together whereas
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because we didn't have a clue really what went with what we just kind of pitched random strategies and sort of
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see where they went not only did we have a blast playing it but I I I did quite well who won G did he he pck Me by about
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five points I think but um and yeah I I had a really good money building engine
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that just then allowed me to kind of explore other things cuz I every time I've played that game I've had no money
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which has been a real pain so I kind of just went for a random strategy and because we all kind of did the same thing it worked really well and and we
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had a blast playing it so I think a lot of the the games that I've played I'm playing with people who have played it a
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lot or at least enough times to have gone away and potentially research strategies which I haven't got the time
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to do patience I got time not the patients so the fact that we kind of none of us knew what we were doing
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really and we were all kind of pulling levers and see saw what happened it made it actually a really enjoyable game
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whereas every other time I've played TM I've wanted to enjoy and I have enjoyed it but I saw where the potential was but
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I knew that I wasn't getting there whereas with this kind of gives me a little bit more hope so I remember when
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we were at gridon and you played Seven Wonders for the first time and at the
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time I think you were just trying out that strategy of let me just go head first into one route and I'll see I'll
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see where it takes me and with JP was teaching the game and then you kind of
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were like I think you'd put down like two cards and you said something along the lines of military will be all right
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would it and I was like yeah military will be fine like it's a good it's a good strategy get some military and some
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other bits and pieces and you I'm sure I'm sure you'll do all right and then I kind of it's one of those things where
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you were kind of a cross you weren't one of my neighbors and Seven Wonders your neighbors are really all you care about in the nicest sense possible um and I
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remember looking across at like the end of like the third era and you had like
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22 points of military it literally every military card I was kicking ass and it
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was like well it's it's only really worth like what is it 6 18 points at the
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end of the game like you do need to kind of diversify a little bit and he was like oh I was just having fun building some military like things and I was just
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like that is brilliant and that point I remember thinking next time I give you advice I need to tell you how how much
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you need to moderate cuz some games do some games you can just plow in One Direction and it's like job done sort of
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thing you can keep scoring points off that 71 wonders is one of those where maybe with the exception of science you
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need to kind of go in a couple of different directions to get your points but but the point that I had a strategy
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and I went with it the fact that it didn't work was irrelevant I got that game through that playthrough yes you
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could and then when we played it again I knew what I was doing I thought right okay I need a bit of that to the point
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where I didn't I had no military I had none at all but I had a few of the cards where I couldn't be attacked so it kind
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of played into that strategy a little bit more but the fact that I knew what to do for that one game made
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me one want to play the game again but two think well I'll do something different this time I can see where I went wrong yeah and and that's but
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that's the other thing is like these games that I love we probably P once or twice a year yeah that's the other thing
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if if you had it out on the table where you played that and nothing but that for about four weeks so that's my game of
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the month that's all I'm going to do then I'd probably you know be able to
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get better at those games which is part of the other reason that I was thinking was that the games I suck at are the games that I want to play but I'm not
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good enough at to win or play to a high level I'm exactly the same I don't care
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about winning it makes no difference to me whether I win as as long as it happens every now and then you know what
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I mean I don't want to win every time every now and then it' be quite nice so
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I think interestingly going right back to your sort of opening statement of I suck at Concordia and perseverance
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they're both games that want you to go a little bit down a main route but mix you
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have because of the nature of Concordia and the and the card system you have to
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be able to really use as many cards as possible from your hand at once and
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before you do the reset turn of pulling it all back in and and it's to a lesser extent but still there is perseverance
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you still have to be able to do a little bit of everything but you might be better at trapping dinosaurs or setting
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up these camps or whatever Adrian how about you what do you suck at problem life yeah actually it's it's not far off
Adrian can't lie and he can't barter
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General soft skills if I'm honest so soft soft skills so thanks for that setup I sucker plausibly
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lying plausibly lying yes okay so the reason why I don't play a lot of uh
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hidden traitor games and stuff like that is because I can't lie not in like a
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liar liar Jim kery kind of like the pen is royal blue not in that kind of way
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but in a in a if someone looks me straight in the eye while I'm trying to be the traitor
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they know like or they'll have a good guess yeah um and the only time I've
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really I think successfully lied in that kind of game is is Battle Star Galactica which I think is why I like it as much
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as I do is because it's one of the very few hidden traitor games where I can lie and generally be all
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right um I also like hidden movement games so I don't mind being the traitor because people nor nor know when they're
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close to you so if you're looking a bit Shifty and a bit sort of sort a bit sweaty and a bit sort of hot under the
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collar cuz they're literally right there they already probably know there's not only enough in these games to give it
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away anyway and it's then about working out how you escape the Trap but in Hidden like traitor games or anything
27:17
where you have to outwardly lie about what you've got on you I'm not good at it like
27:24
um is it uh dead of winter the crossroads game if you've got a
27:30
ropey like traitor objective of like have all the canned food and they're like why are you storing up all canned
27:36
food Adrian and I'm like um because I am making a beer can fireplace is that true
27:44
Adrian no I'm a traitor joery travani thing where he's like there was there
27:50
was a bird and it flew in and and that is there's just no point in me playing
27:56
those games anymore I like I've stopped for the most part if it turns up at like Christmas or New Year's Eve cuz I'm
28:03
nerdy and don't go out and get drunk I play board games at friends houses um if it's at one of those and it comes up and
28:08
everyone is like Yay then I'll play and again I can get away normally with maybe one round of telling a lie or whatever
28:14
but when it's like resistance or Avalon or anything like that Sheriff of Nottingham yeah oh I'm not bad at that
28:20
are you not no cuz normally you can see enough of cards that I can start and play the odds it starts turning a bit
28:25
more like poker where you're not card counting but you can kind of tell maybe the first couple of rounds but they're
28:31
normally quite low stakes and then as the rounds go on you've been given enough information and you can see how people are working and stuff that
28:37
whereas ones that tend to be just look into your eyes and tell me a truth and I'm like um no I'm traitor sorry that
28:46
kind of not that I'm ever quite that bad but whenever I get to those kind of points I'm just so bad at lying um but
28:53
yeah I I just don't I don't play those anymore um you can get some of those
28:59
games where they've taken that traitor mechanic out like dead of winter and we played it as a full Co-op nowhere near
29:06
as much fun no and that that's part like some of those great some of those games it's just ingrained that it kind of has
29:12
to be that way like Nemesis you need to play with a Defector otherwise it just doesn't work well Nemesis I don't mind
29:18
because you get the two options and you can be kind if you want to so if I'm feeling like I can lie I've got the
29:25
option to if you think like whereas if you think about Blood On the Clock Tower or anything that you are the demon you
29:30
are the werewolf you are the traitor like it's stuck with you you get no choice on the matter um maybe Secrets
29:38
where you can hand over what Allegiance you've got and stuff that's a bit more Mayhem but you can kind of do stuff to
29:44
help with that and on a day of Nemesis I can sort of get to about I don't know a third of the way into the game whatever
29:50
you normally have to pick which card you're going to go for you going to go for the evil card or the better card and I can kind of normally at that point
29:56
decide how good I'm going to be at lying or decide if I I'm going to be able to get away with it if the way I've been
30:02
playing will allow me to you've got to be in the mood to do it as well haven't you like if you think right I quite like
30:08
the personal challenge of trying to to be the bad guy and some days I just like you know what I don't want to be the
30:14
[ __ ] yeah I'm I'm like it all day I don't need to do it when I'm playing play you know so being an [ __ ] comes
30:21
fairly naturally to me so that's not necessarily my problem it's the lying part so so that's that's probably yeah
30:28
yeah that's probably the my main thing of what what I struggle with that are games that I suck the other thing is
30:34
auction anything where I have to understand the value of something intrinsically and someone's going to
30:39
make me an offer and I have to barter or stuff I'm terrible at bartering like
30:44
genuinely it's I think in life yeah oh yeah I way overpaid for my house I way
30:49
overpaid for my car like I am a I am so bad at this part of as was saying it's
30:54
soft skills right I can't I can't reasonably lie I can't reasonably barter or understand actually it's if like you
31:02
think about the car market or house market it is x 100,000 or whatever for a house hopefully not a car or not any car
31:08
I'm ever going to buy well depends um you've got to decide how many thousand under that is actually a reasonable
31:16
offer I can't do it I don't like I then have to go and look I have to go and
31:21
gather data off the market and then I'll approach someone and I'll be like I think it's worth this of course we
31:27
really supposed to do is undercut even that so you get away in the middle but quite often I forget to do that and therefore I end up so genuinely with
31:34
board games anything where you've got an auction where someone's going to make you an offer or anything like that where I have to intrinsically understand the
31:41
value of it for me and other people around the table and how that will differ I struggle with that as well and
31:48
I the m word which I don't want to say because it's a swear word I can't think of any other games that have that
31:53
mechanic Ryo kitzia quite often has a level of auction in some of his Gam
31:59
spus one of my uh games that I thought when it first was like it's like you got
32:06
this mini game and I thought that sounds pretty good then I realized it is just five very self four very self-contained mini games that aren't that
32:12
great but sparkus has an auction mechanic in it and again I I I can look
32:18
at something and go oh that's great but how great is that going to be longterm
32:23
versus now who's going to bid high for it who's going to bid low for it and it's a mind bidding put your coins in
32:29
and all that kind of stuff and yeah I just suck at those those things so they my two things that I really don't even
32:35
things like Katan they've got an auction thing where you can trade where you got a trade mechanic which is two for one or
32:41
whatever and again sometimes I'll come a foul of that but when you're trading with each other you can say yeah you can
32:46
have my stone for three rather than two you can kind of in you know you can set that and you do get I think with that
32:53
game you get a little bit more understanding of because everything is visible and you kind of get a little bit
32:59
more information with that game than with some others but I have come I feel like I've come AC Cropper a few times on
33:04
the oh I just need this one item and I've traded away like an entire hands worth of stuff just to be able to build
33:10
a road CU I was desperate for it sort thing and people can tell again that lying thing that's the point of it
33:15
though if you're desperate for it you're willing to pay a little bit more because you want it that's the whole point of the kind of auction and bartering thing
33:22
kind of I think you again I think people can like in China so I've not played Chinatown but it was offered as a game
33:28
to me to play Chinatown and that is another one where properties are worth whatever amount someone sets for it and
33:35
it's like no I couldn't do that because there's too many variables whereas katan's quite a low variable and the
33:41
likelihood of you coming across what you want is fairly known because you're going to roll two dice and it's a two in
33:47
whatever odd or whatever I might get this wrong C aora uh yeah so C aora has
33:53
got a mechanic like that but it sets it for you hasn't it it's got an auction that automatically kind of changes so
34:00
you don't set what it's worth but you have to kind of barter so your strategy is based on what's low and what's high
34:06
and and everything else which is quite a I'm just thinking of games that kind of change the value of stuff without H
34:12
having making you feel you have to barter for it yeah again you don't in kahore you don't really bargain for
34:19
anything but but the value of stuff goes up and down it does but again you can see that it's intrinsically built in
34:25
that you can see it and games like that I have generally no problem with no cuz I I feel the same way that that that I
34:31
love that game because it didn't make me feel uncomfortable that I had to say right I I need rocks what you how many
34:37
rocks are you going to give me if I give you this and then that whole yeah I I don't enjoy that either but with games
34:43
like that where it's a part of the game but it's not it's set by the game rather than set by the individual for some reason it's easier to
34:49
stomach you know what I mean it's easier to kind of I I get that I would be exactly the same I wouldn't be like it
34:55
wouldn't be up for even just that mechanic to me would be a bit of a turn off is like how much for these rocks
35:00
would be very flat would it wouldn't be really kind of something that would be my kind of bag so go on then Chris you
35:06
tell us about what you suck at so for me and I'll I'll pinpoint a specific game
Worker placement makes an evil return for Chris
35:11
in in a moment but I've mentioned the past and it's I'm just going to highlight the entire genre it's work and placement games forgot I forgot we did
35:18
this in your um exactly in the dark side episode I'm bringing it back with the Vengeance I don't like worker placement
35:25
no I'm awful with them um but I I I like playing them but I'm just the worst out of them um you know your Lords of Water
35:32
Deep your wingspan one that I'll go through in a minute um but there are games that they immediately just spring
35:38
to mind when I go but I'm just awful at these but I'll play them they're fun um I can always guarantee that I will come
35:44
last um it's probably because I haven't really played like a really really really good one um I know like June Imperium is like a really fan favorite
35:51
in the group a lot of people play it a lot of people really love it I've never had the chance to play it so it could be
35:56
that I haven't stepped into a really really really good game that will then sort of click with me and then it will
36:02
work um but for me it's just I'm going to come last have fun guys um so the
36:09
game that I want to highlight though is um flamecraft I've played it now
36:14
probably four or five times and each time I've come probably with less than
36:19
30 points which is really low score it's awful um it's a really easy simple beautifully designed game about just
36:26
putting dragons into shops and that's pretty much it um you know put your little Meep on on the shop get a
36:32
resource you get a dragon put it on the shop I'll grade the shop Bluff there you go um score victory points but for me I
36:40
seem to struggle with planning ahead I'm very reactive in my gameplay if something happens I go right now I need
36:46
to do this because that's happened um but if I I do that and then I go oh I
36:52
should have probably done something about in I've got a plan what's going to happen in four or five turns I'm trying
36:57
to make a little engine going I'm trying to put something together but it just doesn't ever get that to that point I go okay well what's happening now bargain
37:04
and then someone takes a resource I want and I go you're an absolute bastard um thank you for that um I need it um I
37:10
know it's a very very crap strategy is just being reactive but unfortunately my brain doesn't work that way very well so
37:18
um but yeah so that's the game I'm I'm going to highlight as I am crap at it it's flamecraft which is a shame because
37:24
it's a beautiful little game I'm when you said work placement I was like yeah I missed a trat that I the same thing I
37:31
struggle yeah I'd say it's it's definitely a thought process or people would just call it like skill issue
37:37
you're just crap at it you're just not very good at that sort of thing just it is just I i' go wa you've taken that
37:42
right I need this resource this turn when everyone else is taking their go I should be now thinking about what
37:49
I'm doing but then I'm watching what you're all doing in turn order and then I go oh it's my turn now oh I was meant
37:55
to probably get that and then that and then yeah so it just it just I'm rubbish I'm trying to find the way of getting
38:01
that resource now on your term but in the most efficient way possible but it might
38:07
be that you take the path that is the most inefficient because of the urgency of taking the resource that you need yes
38:13
yeah it's B I'm exactly the same yeah it's worse if I'm teaching if I'm teaching a game it's worse it will get
38:19
round to my turn again and I've had the whole time to work out what I'm going to do forgotten yeah in games like that
38:26
with a cheach I've done know before as well but in those sort of scenarios you are concentrating on what other people are doing more than you would normally
38:32
do because you're trying to make sure that they're doing it right you want to make sure that they St that they're having fun and enjoying themselves
38:37
rather than just say oh you'll be all right now you're fine get two turns in oh know you don't you'll be all right and then they've just done something
38:43
dodgy and you're like well you can't really do that but okay fine um but yeah so that's what I suck at is is it as
38:50
well I'm just just thinking about sort of what I think about when I'm doing work placement games is it a sequencing
38:56
thing as well because let's let's make a hypothetical game up where you need by the end of the turn
39:02
you need three rocks three bits of wood and two sheep like let's say it's work placement Katan that we've just created
39:08
out of nowhere right and you're like right I need all these things is it so the things I would be
39:15
thinking about right are who else needs stuff can I leave wood till later or
39:20
sheep till later who's going to take what first and do I need to do it in a specific order and it sounds to me like
39:27
you're watching what everyone else needs and whatever doing so that's why I was wondering is it a sequencing issue of
39:32
just I'll grab whatever's free now or I'll grab whatever's most efficient now and maybe not thinking about is there a
39:38
certain order I need to do this in or I'm just trying to think honestly I think it is I tend to watch other people's play
39:45
and I go well you're getting this you're getting that and then gets to my turn and I go oh I needed that yeah thanks
39:53
you're kind of picking up what's left yeah I end up always taking the chaff that no one else wants and then trying to do something with it
40:00
optimal or efficient I've scored one Victory point for this whole last three turns cool right perfect um so yeah say
40:08
it's skill issue I'm just bad but again it's there are other games where you
40:14
will have made decisions on so if we if we put this in sort of in let's call it
40:20
dungeon caller terms or something like that you know you need to pick up the sword before you hit the monster right do
40:26
you hit the monster okay not the way Chris plays it maybe i' maybe I've found the point here
40:32
then do you really even need the sword do you even need the monster just go and hit a thing there is no monster if
40:39
there's no monster you're just taking a wander in in ruins in a very dark cave very casual Wonder okay fair enough now
40:46
you know why it takes him five hours yeah exactly takes me forever to do anything no I do I do a similar thing
40:52
though I think right I need this and I will focus on that and I'm like right I now need this and I will focus on that
40:58
and I'm like if I can't get that how can I get that it's almost like a you don't
41:03
just you don't have to plan to a three moves in a head but you kind of need to think right if that happens I'm going to do this and if that happens I'm going to
41:09
do this and like we we were just sort of talking off Mike is that I'm not flexible enough to be able to do that so
41:15
I I get your point is that like I really struggle like I I really enjoy Lords of water deep but I suck at it so badly but
41:24
I love playing it so I don't mind sucking at it and similar things like I like June Imperium as well great game
41:30
but I I don't I never do well at it for that reason is it more of a case that you're thinking you know pardon me no
41:37
more than sort of two or three turns ahead while the opponents around the table maybe thinking five or six or
41:42
seven turns around because that's the same issue that I'm playing like I'm playing TM you mentioned TM I love TM
41:48
it's taken a few turn a few games of TM now but I've got to a point where Beck said to me no you can't play down
41:55
because I've got to a point I'm actually I'm quite good at it now so I do quite all right at it um but it's taken me
42:00
that long to get there due to the sheer number of games I've played and I've watched uh Andy over the table and I can
42:07
I can see it that he can that he's got seven or eight turns in front of me and I'm not near that who was that sorry
42:14
Andy who curly him in it yeah he won't be happy with you but no I get I see what you
42:20
mean like I I played it with with him could have called him Andrew only his mother calls him that um
42:27
I played it with him and Davey and I realized that they're not even reading the cards they're they're looking at what they're doing purely from symbols
42:33
and the picture on the card and I'm like yeah I'm on the wrong table here yeah I've done that like with with TM
42:40
I've played the first couple of games I've played it and i' I've watched I've watched Curley and his brother play it and they go go oh have you got Martian
42:45
rails I'm like what what are you saying doesn't mean now now I get what that is now I now understand what that means uh
42:53
and I can understand that it's it's a big deal but it takes you time to get there but rather than thinking two or three turns
42:59
ahead I can think a few more but that's just because of the sheer number of plays of the game I've played takes time
Do you purposely avoid playing these games or would you still be willing to give it a shot
43:05
so with these games that you know you B you're bad at or for me obviously it's the entire genre um do you purposely try
43:11
to avoid playing them when they come up in obviously our group obviously they
43:16
pop up saying everyone else wants to play this or four or five people we need remember would you actively avoid
43:22
playing it or would you still be willing to actually sort of dive in and give it a shot what do you think Rob I think it
43:30
depends if if it no not even that well mainly if I wanted to play the game I
43:35
would have a look at who else is playing if I'm thinking right I just want to get better at this game I don't I'm not
43:42
trying to win I'm just trying to figure the game out um then yeah like we did with TM
43:47
actually it was a really enjoyable experience to the point where now I could quite happily go and play with people who have played it I'd still get
43:53
my ass kicked but at least I'd kind of know what I'm doing which is which makes the experience just gener I probably end
44:00
up with the same score that I would have done but I just enjoy it a bit better um if we were like a game day where you
44:07
know we got five six people and they're like right we're going to play this I'm like cool I'll play it if it's gone up
44:13
on the gaming group and going right Thursday night we're playing June Imperium no
44:19
right like one because there are plenty of other people that would want to play that game but two I don't enjoy it so I
44:25
will actively stay away from it if you need somebody and I'm available so that the game can go ahead then yeah I'll
44:31
jump in say say that you know you need a minimum of four players for a game we've got three and I'm free and nobody else
44:38
wants to jump in I'd rather have you know I'd rather sit and play the game knowing that I'm probably not going to
44:44
enjoy it but everybody else will because then maybe when I want to play a game that particularly other people aren't interested in but I need somebody to
44:50
jump in maybe then they return the favor so cuz I like I've never played a game
44:56
that I hate I've just played a game that I don't enjoy do you know what I mean I can see why other people I
45:02
have so is Adrian no comment I haven't fair enough but I've always had I've
45:08
always been able to have a laugh at the table do you know what I mean and is it a case of me sitting in front of the T
45:13
on my own watching something or sitting around the table pornub well even that gets boring after a while depends what
45:19
you're watching well that's true maybe I'm just coming up with the wrong searches but my point
45:25
is I I'd rather hang out with you nerds than sit on my own and watch TV a and I
45:31
genuinely mean that like we always have a laugh we always have it's always funny at least well 99% of the time it's funny
45:38
so like if somebody needs me to step in and play a game that I don't particularly enjoy yeah I'll do it but if there if you've got plenty of people
45:44
and I don't enjoy it yeah you guys crack on and have a good time without me that was going to be literally my entire bit
45:49
as well oh sorry no it's fine no honestly I was going to leave right on to it I am is exactly the same if there are people that need someone to play
45:57
even though I don't really enjoy playing the game I will probably end up stepping up and playing it as well just so
46:02
everyone else can have a fun time my end up my evenings are boring of just either sting watching TV or playing Xbox that's
46:08
literally my evenings five nights a week um so if I can be do something else just for the sake of you know interacting
46:15
with another human being face to face I'd probably rather be doing that even if I'm not going to necessarily overly
46:21
enjoy the game that I'm playing judging from the other two's reaction though Chris I think me and you are the only I think we're the only two any two people
46:27
that say with this F Dan you you were shaking your head no I dangerously quick there I the only way I can describe it
46:35
is this is without standing two pretentious is that my time is really valuable I don't have a lot of I know
46:42
right I just don't have a lot of time you work parttime though don't you uh well depends who you're asks who's asking I I don't have a lot of time
46:50
whether it be whether it be working or whether it would be you know family stuff or the six months or eight months
46:57
that it takes me to to to do the ball game marathon my time is quite limited so of the time that I've got available
47:04
to play board games I would like it ideally if I can play the games I like
47:10
sometimes or or games that I'm up for trying because I've not played and I don't have an opinion yet I would not
47:17
take it in my stride to because go that game I hate but I'll play it to fill a number I just cuz I just I wouldn't
47:23
enjoy it I'd rather play something I enjoy um there are are games that I just go me and I probably play a few of them
47:30
don't mind playing a few m games but there's a small list of games that I just would not play if people Wen oh do
47:36
you fancy no I don't fancy at all no um we need a no just no go ask somebody
47:43
else mind just sharing one of that one of that list about upsetting people
47:48
munchkin it's a oh it's a was right at the top of there two games you said
47:53
games that you don't want and again I don't suck at it I've done all right aunch same but it's a terrible yeah I'm
48:00
sure there are people who love it but in my opinion that and flux have to be two of the my least favorite games of all
48:06
time yeah and I'm I've won plenty of times at both so it's not an I suck at it thing it's a I would rather chew
48:13
broken glass than have to deal with I got a second one that's a strong statement though right there that is a
48:19
strong statement zombie side is my second I went to the the local club
48:25
night and we' been playing we we on about our fourth game and then there the guy at the end of the table went oh
48:31
fancy a quick game of Munchkin and I I think just few respon I went no really
48:36
loudly across the table and and that's go I'm really sorry but of all the games you could have said like there's not
48:42
there's games I don't like there's not many games that I would choose not to play but munchkin is really up there
48:48
with games I would do anything else I'd rather sit at the table and stare at the wall than play munchkin I've never
48:56
played it so com it's it's it's old as a time and place for it but it's old it's random it's just it's too random tooand
49:04
it's too random one of those one of those games where being in the lead tends not to help um marioart and it's
49:11
yeah it's it's got that kind of thing it's like flux if you've never played flux before it's just like oh you're
49:18
heading towards this one thing I'm just going to play this card and totally nullifies what you're heading towards we've now got a completely different
49:23
objective all right okay okay I'll swap slightly or I'll move and see if I can
49:28
put this law or this rule in and then someone will beat you to what you need to do and you're like ah and again and
49:35
there are some strategies to flux but for the most part it's just random and it's just yeah I don't enjoy it but yeah
49:42
that I'm the same I just go back so you said zombie side as well I can't stand it I I own two variations of zombie side
49:49
why what why do you own two versions of it why do I hate it why do you hate it
49:56
it's silly nonsense I don't like it because of the alpha gamer that it can
50:01
potentially create maybe it's the people I need to I should play with and play with different people and I might enjoy
50:07
it but i' it's I like to describe my own board gaming taste as like I've kind of
50:12
like I started off as like a little egg and then I hatched into this person that I am and I grew from there and I find
50:19
that zombie sub was one of the very first kind of early games that I played uh and I kind of outgrew it fair enough
50:25
no that's fine I mean I've got the new not say the new but the Marvel zombie side I'd be up for giving that a go and
50:31
it adds a different element to it where there's a level of strategy that you kind of have to think about otherwise it
50:36
completely ruins your game as Tambo as you guys found out didn't you yeah and then I bought it well as I mentioned last last time on
50:44
the last B I ended up buying it just because of the way even though I again was awful at it I was like this game is
50:50
awesome play the reason I love it is because it's silly nonsense it is silly
50:55
nonsense and my kids kids can play it yeah it's a game that rolling Dice and like and I know that you don't
51:01
necessarily love that Adrian it's just it's just dice nonsense again it's just
51:06
for for zombie side specifically it is it is really just roll dice and hope
51:12
yeah there's very little certainly in the sort of what was the last one I played the last one so I played uh the
51:20
black plag and RW morg so whichever one of those came later that's like the the
51:26
the middle one isn't it yeah now I'm only tempted by that for one reason and that is that there is a Thundercats
51:32
expansion oh nice and I'm seriously considering it for that reason alone I don't particularly want the game I just
51:38
want the players Lineo killing zombies you know what I mean I'm not going to lie I'm an easily pleased C of man but
51:43
certainly at that point it felt like there was no real tactics like yeah you
51:48
have to run across this side of the board and you probably need to put one person out to do a bit of attracting of zombies or make some noise or whatever
51:55
but that is the level of tactical depth the rest is really hoping you roll the right Dice and it's just there's again
52:02
there's there's been better since then so certainly for zombie side I'm kind in the same park as you down for that one
52:07
is it's just played out so I think that leads on really nicely um from what you were saying there down about um
What is the turning point which stops you from playing a game full stop
52:13
obviously how you've changed your um your interests have grown over time and obviously you've moved away from certain
52:18
things what would it take for you guys to sort of hit that final nail in the coffin and go right I haven't enjoyed
52:25
this game I'm really bad at it I'm not going to play it anymore just end the story and just even if someone puts it
52:31
up no not happening end the story Adrian's statement of cheer glass has probably yeah go that point go I if I'm
52:38
going to play this game I'm going to bleed from the mouth there's only one thing for me that would make me do that
52:43
and that wouldn't necessarily be a game I would suck at it would be a game that makes me angry yeah if a game ever makes
52:50
me angry whether it could be the mechanic or it could be like like munchkin where we're all like flux as
52:55
you said where where someone goes goes I've now changed the whole rule set and what you were doing is not void that would annoy the hell out of me and that
53:02
would be enough for me to go NOP no more so anything if a game makes me angry and it's not it's really not many um I will
53:09
just go nope nope but then like something like feudum which has just had a recent uh uh Resurgence due to the
53:16
seven is it the seven year anniversary so they brought it back out on crowdfunding I that game made me angry
53:22
because there's so many little moving mechanics and mechanisms in it that it's almost was in my opinion unnecessary and
53:28
that made me angry but in turn with those extra mechanisms that probably
53:34
would actually link to the to the format of this episode that actually because there's so much going on I would suck at
53:39
it but in turn made me angry so I'm out no that's totally fair um for me it's if
53:47
I'm not enjoying the game or if I'm I am really bad at it uh and it takes it's taking longer than it should much longer
53:54
than it should um you know these sort of games that I've I play I say work at placement games or whatever they normally tend to take between sort of
54:00
two to three hours May on a new player game touch more a little bit more if you're sort of getting into the realm of
54:06
this is taking more than four hours to play this game and I'm really bad at it
54:12
I'm not going to do this anymore it's just going to be the end of story I think it it has to provide something other than what you dislike yeah I mean
54:18
like Game of Thrones is a 5 hour game that I typically don't do very well at but it's the like it's the experience
54:24
around the table unless you get something else other than the game that you dislike then yeah I'm 100% with you
54:31
if worker placement games going on for 4 hours yeah I'm out I've said it before one I have the biggest reactions to
54:37
complex games because they take so long so if I'm loving it it's 5 hours of pure
54:43
joy if I hate it and I'm an hour in I've got four hours of misery ahead of me yeah because I'm not in and again I've
54:51
I've won games that I've thought this is the worst thing I've played in a long time sort of thing maybe a bit
54:56
hyperbolic but you know just genuinely not enjoyed it and you have to sit there for four more hours and therefore if you
55:02
look at my scoring apart from a few outliers a lot of them that are at the right bottom end
55:08
or right top end are quite often heavier games where I've had quite an extreme score like I've scored them quite
55:14
extreme on BGG because I am stuck at that table and I'll either love it or hate it and it's kind of as you were
55:21
saying it's that thing of if you don't like a game or if you feel like you're sucking at a game and you've got no way back from it it can really hurt how that
55:28
game feels in the moment yeah no totally true yourself
55:34
myself um no I won't play games that I don't so as I kind of said it's soft skills right it's life skills like the
55:41
ability to barter the ability to kind of tell lies to a set like not White Lies I can tell Little White Lies oh your hair
55:47
looks great today um that kind of thing I can I say with four that's why I said
55:53
it I piped up three B people person with quite closely short
55:59
hair but they're so in the what I don't like in board games is so intrinsically
56:04
linked to life experiences that they make me reflect on
56:11
things I've done in real life or not done or being bad at and so I naturally
56:17
don't like it if we think back to the last 24hour events of the what 2023 is
56:22
24hour event we decided as a podcast we were going to resistance and I stepped
56:28
out and said I'm really sorry I'll commentate I'll do something anything in the end I didn't do too much commentating just did the odd bit here
56:34
or there but I was so determined not to be caught on camera doing a terrible job
56:39
of lying because I knew that in my own head it would be worse yeah um and
56:45
actually part of it is Chris's fault so um the previous Buton was so the
56:52
previous like was it like a couple of months before we'd had a like a gaming weekend round Curly's and we played
56:59
Avalon and I was like right okay i' really don't want to play this game but
57:05
there's loads of new people here there's nothing else to do it will look really awkward if I just sit on the side do
57:10
nothing so okay fine I'll I'll give it a go even though I don't like it and first round I got to play the
57:17
good guys or whatever not a problem second one Traer and the first words I
57:22
said out of my mouth Chris looked back at me and went m basically like you could see it on his face written all
57:28
over it you've just lied to me hands down and then kind of quite ciously went
57:33
yeah I I think you're a traitor Adrian so I'm not going to give you this and I was like I've said a sentence but it's
57:42
the it's the look on my face that's come back to me now it was so clear you your
57:47
face just died and like no you're good it did give that to you and that's how I that's how I am with all games right and
57:54
the second Chris did that it reminded cuz I hadn't played one of those games in so long because I'd been able to
58:00
dodge them so much and in that moment reminded me why I don't like playing
58:06
these games is because if I haven't had the opportunity to really prepare or I've
58:13
got if there's no I just don't have the ability to lie on the spot chameleon is one of my worst games ever because you
58:19
got go around the table and tell instantly a lie and you have about half a second to think about that lie and
58:25
this just doesn't work for me so is is that not potentially a skill that you could work on by playing more games that
58:31
make you feel that uncomfortable no and is it in your head a little bit that you are a liar that that that you're you're
58:37
giving off because you're so afraid of people reacting to you that they're reacting to your reaction rather than
58:43
reacting to your lie maybe but it's something I can't control right like this is square peg round my point is if
58:49
you if you the instant reaction of whatever your face shows that's that's that's it and people pick up on it some
58:54
people just not quit with it no no no but my my my only Devil's Advocate point
59:00
was that is it because you don't put yourself in that situation enough to to maybe be a little bit more sort of cool
59:07
about being able to light do you know what I mean is is it a comfort thing or is it a I don't possess that ability is
59:13
it if I if I played these game if I forced myself to play 50 games of Avalon in a row you'd probably feel more
59:20
comfortable about the 50th than you did the first fair enough you'd be kind of going out of your mind playing be
59:25
hanging off or something but that's my point is is it highlighting a skill that potentially needs Improvement or is it
59:32
just I don't possess the capability of doing that do you know you know what I mean in all honesty and again we talking
59:38
about the bartering thing right generally I'm happy not to lie and I appreciate that some people I mean that
59:44
that's pretty Sound Advice to live don't get me wrong it works and and some people will I've been told by I think
59:51
every manager I've ever had manage me that you can I wear my heart on my sleeve if I'm if if I'm for something
59:56
you can tell the second you tell me if I'm against something you can read it on my face doesn't matter how much I try to
1:00:02
to cover it up if they know me even slightly they can probably read what's on it right but I've done pretty well in
1:00:08
my career not lying and and having this kind of you know where I stand on everything whether it's good bad whether
1:00:14
you like the how I where what my position is on something you can read it on me instantly and I think that I'm
1:00:22
happy with that that that that's not I didn't mean it was a bad thing I meant like you know that's absolutely the
1:00:27
right way to live like don't lie don't be a dick but when you've got to lie and be a dick in a game it puts you at a
1:00:33
really massive disadvantage yeah but again it's that thing of I'm not good at separating I don't want to lie to
1:00:39
someone's face right like and I can I can genuinely lie I can't lie well but I've I've met people who are like I'm
1:00:46
not playing this game because I refuse to lie to people see I struggle with conflict resolution really struggle with
1:00:51
it's a one-on-one kind of not argument but almost like a debate like a ful debate and I find that through playing
1:00:59
board games has given me more confidence I'm still not great at it I don't agree
1:01:04
but it's given me more dick it's given me more confidence to at
1:01:10
least cuz it can be quite shocking sometimes and and being around the board
1:01:16
game being in the board game scenario has made me feel more comfortable in the
1:01:22
actual situation mean it doesn't it doesn't car it doesn't carry over verse like exactly the same but bit having
1:01:28
those feelings of okay I need to kind of force this issue through or I need to kind of Stand My Ground on this has made
1:01:35
it easier in life because I do it in ball games so that I quite enjoy the skills that I've learned not necessarily
1:01:42
the learning of a puzzle but actually the the interactions around and that's why I enjoy the interactions around the
1:01:48
table just because I seem to I seem to learn more about myself in those
1:01:53
scenarios than what I do figuring out puzzle of the game I enjoy the game but I you know I get more out of around the
1:02:00
table it's funny how how how a particular board game can kind of open your eyes and kind of go go oh actually
1:02:06
I've learned something about myself there um like Game of Thrones or or that's you mention Game of Thrones you
1:02:12
learn a lot more about the people around you you Lear you learn a lot about the people around you but you but then like also like Twilight Imperium I've learned
1:02:17
a lot about myself playing that game and I've I've realized that I turned into a completely different person while
1:02:24
playing Twilight Imperium vault where I I you know I I become this kind
1:02:29
of like this Global dick I'm like if you take that planet then there there will be consequences for your your your
1:02:36
actions there sir and I cannot be held responsible for what happens next you know and I'll look him dead in the eye
1:02:42
and I'll say it to him with such malice um but you know you you play something like you know AG gria or play like Cal
1:02:49
like oh we got Vikings let's move some things around you know it's great and lovely and it's but put something like
1:02:54
that in front of me it's like is turning into this [ __ ] I think it's partly because it's safe to do so yeah yeah
1:03:01
you're not going to go to somebody in a pub and go right if you stand there for 30 more seconds there's going to be trouble but you can do it in a ball game
1:03:07
scenario and it's fun and it kind of like I say it just stands you like the feeling you get by doing it becomes a
1:03:13
little bit easier in the real world do you know what I mean it's not quite the it's not quite the the shock that's
1:03:19
that's all I mean is that very quickly it's I think it's been called the Golden Circle before isn't it which is when you
1:03:25
sit down at a table you all buy into a general Spirit of the game that
1:03:31
you appreciate that it's just a game but that you'll adhere to it if there's allowed to be cheating you're allowed to
1:03:37
cheat but if there's not allowed to be cheating you don't cheat but you can pull every dirty tactic in the book If
1:03:43
you need to kind of and there's that kind of Golden Circle when you all sit around the table you agree to this thing
1:03:48
right so it's it tells you I'm allowed to be a little bit more confrontational
1:03:53
or I'm allowed to be a little bit more um snarky I'm struggling for the word but a little bit more antagonistic is
1:04:00
probably the better word of those around me because we all know hopefully that we can get up from the table and and leave
1:04:07
and that doesn't always happen it is all ingest yeah it's not like this is not serious no this is not going to change
1:04:12
our friendship at the end of this session possibly but I've left games of Game of Thrones where people haven't
1:04:18
spoken for a few weeks because they need to calm down and I was never part of it but my gaming group played a game of
1:04:23
diplomacy which meant someone didn't talk to some someone else for a whole year wow wow because diplomacy is
1:04:29
exactly the same in game friends no don't worry about military over here I'm just just secur in my borders and then
1:04:35
you straight across the table I think ironically that that was the experience that galvanized the gaming group was
1:04:41
that you know what actually you've been addicting me for two hours come the end of it we can laugh Y and I want to do
1:04:47
this again I don't actually want to murder you in that moment I could have quite happily but like now I don't want
1:04:53
to and that say that's what kind of Galvanize the group and I think that's why we were such a close-nit group
1:04:59
that's expanded and and kind of that Spirit has gone on that you can say whatever you want to me around the table
1:05:04
when we're playing a game but you know in in a different scenario comes with different consequences whereas when
1:05:11
we're here and we're playing a game it's it's absolutely fine and Chris's Point that's how it should be right absolutely
1:05:16
that's absolutely how it should be but I have seen it where it hasn't gone that way and there's always going to be that
1:05:22
a chance of it happening right but for the most part I think everyone buys into that Spirit of the game that who I am
1:05:29
while I'm playing Game of Thrones won't necessarily be how we are on a day-to-day bases Tambo might not agree
1:05:35
with you was calling him back sto for like three years I I uh I completely agree with
1:05:42
everything you just said and it and I luckily I haven't been in too many situations where Game of Thrones has
1:05:48
eded in like in Bloodshed um however talking about it just makes me want to
1:05:53
play it I just want want to play it now um set up A's get JP in and set up a
1:05:59
five player game game with Thrones let's do it I'd be up for it cool so I think we've pretty much covered how much we
1:06:05
suck in general life games you know you can pretty much pick a lot of subjects
1:06:11
um so now we can move on to our would you [Music]
TURN 4 - Would you rather...be amazing at a game everyone else hates, or rubbish at a game everyone loves
1:06:24
rather so gentlemen would you rather be
1:06:29
amazing the best ever at a game that everyone else doesn't like or the
1:06:35
absolute worst of the game that everyone loves do you love it as well it's fine
1:06:40
you find it fine fine it's a okay I'll play it if I have to judging from my
1:06:46
experience with TM I'd rather be great a game everybody hated to be perfectly honest with
1:06:53
you to Fair changed um no I the like the
1:06:58
TM experience I enjoyed it but I sucked at it so then obviously playing looking
1:07:05
at it if it was the other way round everybody hated it but I I I'm you know
1:07:10
I'm really good at it yeah I'm okay with that he'll take the win yeah yeah I'm
1:07:15
not really good at at many games so I'll take one where I can get it that's fair I I with with me I can relate to this
1:07:24
kind of in the video game kind of industry so without blowing my own horn
1:07:31
I'm really good really good at Tetris
1:07:38
phenomenally good like my fingers are on fire good I'm not going to say anything
1:07:44
about your wife um she doesn't complain uh and um you know I I'm I'm really good
1:07:51
at it but I haven't found a worthier enough opponent that loves it as much as
1:07:57
I do to play so if I play everybody people are like this game is and they're not they're not they're not good enough
1:08:04
so for me it doesn't take a box because I can't beat them knowing that they're actually good enough to beat me so based
1:08:10
on that reason I'd rather suck at it because if I suck at it and everyone loves it I could then improve and then I
1:08:17
could get somewhere in the end with it I'd rather have that than than Tetris gate which is what I've got now I'd
1:08:23
Rather Be Lonely at the Top it's good to be the king it's really
1:08:29
lonely at the it's really Lonely at the Top I haven't found a worthy opponent yet something that I've never experienced and it sounds quite nice so
1:08:36
yeah so so the game you're good at but everyone else hates you love it yeah oh
1:08:42
I'm picking that like it's it's not whether I'm good or bad at a game I would rather play a game that I love
1:08:48
than one that I don't even if everyone else around the table is just there because they're doing me a favor or
1:08:54
whatever they're trying to fill out the numbers yeah whatever it is but I'd rather I'd rather play a game I love
1:09:01
than a distinctly average game selfishly no I I've completely I'm I'm of the that
1:09:08
similar opinion but say if it came down to the n Greet and I had to decide I would rather make sure that everyone else is having a nice time a in all
1:09:15
honesty I if as long as it doesn't lead back to what previously obviously what I mentioned it doesn't gone too long it's
1:09:21
fine um because at the end of the day even if I didn't necessarily enjoy the game I've played it I can go home and do
1:09:26
something else it's fine there's there's more things there's more other games I can go home and play or there something else I can do afterwards long as it
1:09:33
hasn't taken my entire evening that I'm fine [Music]
TURN 5 - Penultimate Turn: What's Coming Up
1:09:43
with so now we can move on to our penultimate term where we discuss what's coming up for us things we're looking
1:09:49
for to and the like Adrian what about you what you fancy starting off
1:09:56
um well apart from watching all of the Star Wars episodes that robs told me not
1:10:01
to watch you ain't going to watch him you don't watch anything I suggest to you yeah that's what I mean as in that's badly worded but I want to find all the
1:10:08
Star Wars ones You' told me not to like not told me to watch then watch those ones first and then go back to the ones
1:10:13
you've um yeah no I am genuinely looking forward to watching some more Star Wars and Marvel cuz I was feeling really
1:10:20
overdone like totally done with Marvel and Star Wars for a little while and now I've given it sort of a 9 month month
1:10:25
break I haven't really watched any of that stuff and now I'm kind of Full Throttle back into watching that so
1:10:32
looking forward to that um from a board game point of view I'm just looking
1:10:39
forward to playing some games play more Primal going to Becky's we're at Becky's obviously this is past but future this
1:10:46
this weekend isn't it yes yeah I can't make I'm working so yeah so I'm looking forward generally to that and what I
1:10:53
really this is really bad so what I really want to play is a hidden having talked about it a little bit earlier is
1:10:58
a hidden movement game it's White Chapel so I've got White Chapel I've got Sniper Elite that I haven't even put on the on
1:11:05
the table yet it's been uh not White Chapel White Hall mystery which is the slightly nice like slightly not nicer
1:11:11
but slightly more condensed easier version um I have after previous episode
1:11:17
I looked at terrascape a lot which is kind of the the opposite where there's
1:11:23
the three survivors are hidden and kind of Jason X style sort of character is
1:11:29
visible to everyone moving around he's got to try and kill everyone before they get to Escape the Mansion they're locked
1:11:34
in um and like I was looking at that so much and then was like but it's it'll be
1:11:40
about 200 200 quid the other one that's got the 3D Mansion yeah that that I that keeps popping up on my phone I keep
1:11:47
looking at it I've got absolutely itchy trigger finger on is it one versus three is it or is yeah yeah which is what I
1:11:53
don't think I've met many I don't think I've seen many hidden games AR one versus up to three um is it available to
1:12:01
buy now is it on Lake plure no it's on K game found in for no it's still open but
1:12:07
it's for January 25 okay so still way off if I I was trying to see if someone
1:12:13
was going to sell a copy first and how cheap I could get just a Basse version because if I game found it I'll game
1:12:18
found it for more so I was trying to beat but I've absolutely had that itch
1:12:24
to play a hidden movement game but one of my other gaming groups I get to more
1:12:29
of like get to see slightly more often don't tend to enjoy that and we don't
1:12:34
seem to have a lot of those games up I know the guys have played Beast a little bit but other than that it's not a genre
1:12:40
that we really look at a lot so I'm kind of I really want to play it but I don't see myself getting many games in in the
1:12:46
future but it's something I really want to put on the table soon you could request one I haven't played one for a
1:12:52
long time Spectre Ops is one pops my mind oh yeah ien I I look I watched a
1:12:58
couple of playthroughs of that but never actually played it myself but I'd picked White Chapel over over that yeah yeah we
1:13:04
played White Hall mystery over lockdown as well or um what's the vampire one
1:13:09
Fury dra Fury Dracula fur I don't fur of Dracula is okay but I don't like it as much purely because it's got some random
1:13:16
load of random cards and things comp it just adds a load of noise to me personally and I understand why people
1:13:22
love it if you like that it's much more storytelling but to me it's just noise that dilutes the core idea of hidden
1:13:28
movement um whereas whiteall mystery certainly keeps it really like close to
1:13:35
as close as you can get I think to a pure hidden movement game and sniper leite I just love Sniper Elite the
1:13:41
computer games and I just managed to pick up a copy and I've read the rules it looks good but just haven't been able
1:13:46
to persuade anyone to give it a game damn what about you what's coming up other than the ball game marathon which
1:13:51
obviously I've been busy trying to sort out which obviously there episode goes out after that um but I know that I
1:13:58
think uh a game of on Mars is around the corner I think which I've not played yet
1:14:03
another ler I've not played so I'm looking forward to giving that a shot I like the theme that's right up my street
1:14:09
um but it reminds me of another game that um portal games did that was a mars-based game that was extremely
1:14:16
complicated and almost fiddly but I can't remember the name of it hope it's not like that though um but I know you
1:14:22
know it's lazera so I know it's going to be heavy and and that's okay cuz I played inventions recently and I loved
1:14:27
it thought it was fantastic so I'm up for that other than that just trying to get my house ready so I can play some
1:14:33
games actually in my house as it's been way too long I need to get something to the table desperate I did um I did pick
1:14:38
up a copy of cluster recently uh which is I know it's a tiny game and it's fun
1:14:44
isn't it and I played it with my kids I played it with my kids recently and that was quite a good little you know 10 minute it was it was 10 minutes to
1:14:50
scratch an itch uh and that was that was good but I need to get something heavy and I need to get something to the table
1:14:56
soon cuz I'm getting really really itchy for it no cool Rob dog um I've hello
1:15:05
I've um got my daughter's birthday tomorrow and she loves villainous so I
1:15:11
think I'm going to try and get a game of villainous with both my girls my wife won't play but both my girls really
1:15:16
enjoy villainous so I think I'm going to try and get a game of that and uh I itching to play Gloom of killol again I
1:15:24
played it once got quite an essential rule wrong so I kind of reset the game
1:15:30
then we had friends over for a Chinese and had to clear the table so I cleared the table and then kind of never got it
1:15:35
out again for me I say I can't for I can't go to Becky's um my cousins are coming down for the weekend from
1:15:42
sorry whereabouts sorry part of the woods whereabouts sorry oh God that's
1:15:49
what I know sorry as much as I as much as it goes for me
1:15:55
um so we're going to be meeting up for a couple of days um play some games just random bits and pieces they bring little party games down and stuff I'll bring up
1:16:02
just a couple of maybe my random games I have um I know a couple of them are
1:16:07
comic book people but they don't have never played Marvel Champions so I was like yes I can totally introduce you to
1:16:13
that and play that so that'll be amazing I'm still missing a few expansions but it's fine when I get paid next maybe
1:16:21
I'll buy all of them I still need to get you to play Marvel United don't I you haven't played Marvel United yeah no I
1:16:28
haven't no I think you'd like it I I can guarantee he'd like it but he don't
1:16:33
listen to me so no he'd hate it he'd hate it does it have beige cubes no it's just a really simple Co-op
1:16:40
where you play a card that's got a couple of symbols on it that tell you whether you can move or do a couple of actions and then the next person puts
1:16:46
their card down and they get to do that plus your previous action so you get the card you've played plus whatever's
1:16:52
previously been played I've seen you go play it I but no I I was playing something else at the
1:16:58
time you just mentioned Marvel and I was like oh yeah Marvel United I just can't get away from the nickname now that I'm
1:17:04
going to give you of gray cubes beige cubes beige cubes beig cubes works I don't mind it's all good ports
TURN 6 - The Final Turn
1:17:11
of vess and with that our final turn is wrapping up and victory points are about to be scored thanks to everyone for
1:17:16
listening we hope you enjoyed it please like subscribe and review the show on your podcast player of choice and we ask
1:17:22
you please share the podcast with at least one person you think would enjoy it if you'd like to support the podcast
1:17:28
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1:17:35
contact with us as we love interacting with our listeners on socials or additionally our contact details can be found in the show notes or on our
1:17:41
website we'll be back again next time with another episode so until then whose turn is it
1:17:48
[Music]