Rob: 0:47

Hello and welcome to another episode of whose turn is it anyway gaming podcast where you get to hear about our gaming shenanigans and opinions on games that we like and don't like. I'm Rob, I'm your first player. This is my last episode of being first player some of some of you will be glad to hear some of you will be happy that JP will be our returning first player to take the reins of this sinking ship. And lead us back to dry land after my my tenure as first play. I am joined by JP Hello, Ian. Hello, and big Kris. How you doing guys?

Ian: 1:25

Is he big Kris now?

JP: 1:30

We have to explain this actually for our listeners because they might get confused when we say it's Chris on the podcast. We've got two Chris's. Yes. Which is why you're saying big Kris.

Kris: 1:38

Pronouncing the K properly.

Ian: 1:39

Yeah, I'm not.

JP: 1:41

How do we pronounce your K? It caught it. Yes, we do have two Chris's and a case that was confusing. Check out our episode artwork, because it's literally..

Rob: 1:56

Clear to see that they're different people.

JP: 1:59

One is at least 20 years younger than the other at least, right Big Kris?

Rob: 2:05

we'll let you guys look at the pictures and figure out which ones which don't want to ruin all the fun.

JP: 2:10

And he's better looking.

Rob: 2:11

Welcome, guys. Thank you for joining.

Ian: 2:13

Thanks for having us.

Rob: 2:14

No worries at all. So this week's episode is mainly going to be featuring dexterity games. But first of all we're going to get into let's talk about hex, which is the kind of weekly roundup of what we've been playing and what we've been up to. So I will start with Ian, because I'd be shocked if you've played anything.

Ian: 2:40

How rude. How very,

JP: 2:42

I mean, you've gotten bang to rights normally,

Ian: 2:44

I mean, you're not wrong. I do actually have something else because although in our Christmas episode, I did mention about some games that we played a little Christmas Shindig, there was one that I didn't mention, and I don't think it's been talked about very much on the podcast before, which is wavelength, which is a phenomenally fun game, great party game, brilliant play with small groups and big groups. And yeah, we cracked that one out at the Christmas party and there was much confusion, which is generally what happens when you first play wavelength, because it is a really simple concept, isn't it, but actually trying to explain it to people, it was really tough. Okay, so unless the middle wavelength comes with a device that allows See, I can't even explain it, you have to see what device yeah, there's a wheel that has set coloured sections on the wheel in a certain segment. So as you spin the wheel around this coloured segment is moving around, you can only see the top half of the wheel. So it's got like a nought to 100 type range, but it's half a circle, the person whose turn is spins the wheel without looking at it. So that those that coloured segment ends up in a certain position. From Yeah, random. So we somewhere all the way from the left to all the way to the right in this semicircle, they then look at it to see where it is. And they are the only person who knows where the coloured segment is, then they hide it again, so that the other players can't see where the coloured segment is. And there is a card with two opposites on it effectively. So you might have a card that says very hot or very cold. And those are the two extremes. And basically, the player who's playing has to state a word or a thing that represents where on the wheel, the coloured section is in terms of whatever the card says. So if it was very cold, very hot, all the way to the left would be very cold all the way through, right be very hot. And if it was somewhere in the middle, then they might say something like, I don't know, a sofa, maybe that's something that's a really bad example.

Rob: 4:55

These were the examples that were given. And that's what

Ian: 4:58

happens in wavelength people come up with really, really bad words. And then basically the the team has to guess where they think the colours segment is and then the opposing team can decide if they think it's higher or lower.

JP: 5:12

And as a dial that you're moving to try and get the ideally the exact position of this coloured side and then after a while this...

Ian: 5:19

Guess you reveal it and basically find out where the point where we're right. And there's points and prizes and fun times ahead.

JP: 5:25

Usually laughter and lots of abuse, lots of abuse. Yeah.

Ian: 5:28

Lots of arguments about what are you talking about? Yes. How on earth could you think that's there on that scale?

JP: 5:34

The most basic concepts of wavelength actually is when the card says like your example, coldest the left hot to the right is getting in the wrong way round.

Ian: 5:43

Yeah. Pretty much every round, I did it twice.

JP: 5:48

Oh, no, I've done it the wrong way. Ah, and that's probably because we can turn in the device to show to other people just getting confused. And I think

Ian: 5:55

I think there is eventually we did work out. The best way is to leave the device in the box with the card in front of it, and then just turn to avoid confusion. But yeah, it's a really fun game. And yeah, especially if people have had a few drinks, then the confusion levels can get very high.

Rob: 6:11

So in the game group, we've all played a lot of games with each other, we know each other quite well. And we still managed to make a complete hash of this game. Like, well, Kerley's got a cat and he had two options cat dog. We were arguing dog person. We were arguing that he was more of a dog person even though he has a cat.

Kris: 6:30

That blew me my mind because clearly has been talking about how much he loves dogs. Yes, I think he got ready for this game, man. Planting seeds of doubt in our mind,

JP: 6:42

Did you see the deck of cards

Kris: 6:42

He told me he loves Poppy the puppy and it was just,

Ian: 6:47

I mean, it's just classic Kerley, isn't it? He's playing the long game. He's been you know, he's he's known that this game was coming out for years. And he's just Yeah, planted those seeds of comfusion in February

JP: 6:56

That second he's thinking, got Wavelength, we're gonna bust that out at Christmas.

Kris: 7:01

Naturally said he hated cats to me. So wherever he just tells people what he wants to hear either then,

Rob: 7:07

It was confusing.

Ian: 7:08

I mean, I wish that was the most confusing thing that happened during that game of wavelength, but it was far from it

JP: 7:13

My favourite bit was, and he knows what's coming. By saying my favourite whole card was the light side of the force and the dark side of the force

Rob: 7:22

I put Mace Windu. Because he's the leader of the Jedi Order.

JP: 7:27

I think it broke everyone. That one. Yeah,

Ian: 7:30

Some lively discussion about exactly how or good Mace Windu is. Yeah.

JP: 7:36

Yeah, it was interesting. It was a purple one. It's got to fuse with the dark side of the kyber crystal, and all of that was coming out. It's brilliant.

Ian: 7:46

I mean, I don't want to reopen old wounds, but he's not completely good right?

Rob: 7:50

No but the dial wasn't completely. It was like, it was nice. It was like 90% Good. Okay. So that's why because if I'd have said Yoda, everyone would have gone straight to 100%. Yeah. And this so every answer was made when

Ian: 8:04

Han Solo wold have been a better answer. Is he 100%?

Rob: 8:10

No he's not, he's not a drug dealer, he's a smuggler.

JP: 8:14

Spice.

Ian: 8:16

You get confused with Dune

JP: 8:18

He's a drug smuggler. I mean, he's a lovable one.

Ian: 8:23

We're splitting hairs now between drug dealer and drug smugglers. It's all in the same industry.

JP: 8:28

But he's so lovable. We get away with it yesterday, and he shot first anyway. Anyway, we got done.

Rob: 8:34

And Kris, what have you been up to mate? What sort of games have you managed to get to the table?

Kris: 8:43

I've not played any board games, although I am going balls deep into the researching T.I because I've got my first proper game.

JP: 8:52

I'm so excited for you

Rob: 8:53

It's almost like you're a full grown up once you play T.I.

Ian: 8:59

Our Whatsapp group the other day, you just posted an excerpt from the rules. And your comment was just saying like, what the actual hell? It was. Yeah, just the turn order or something? Yeah, like,

Kris: 9:11

I've been my first day of going because I can't, I can't retain the information for long periods. I have to time it to be taken it in just before a week or so before we play. And then I have to, I can't do it fully. So then I'd have to refer refresher a day or two before as well. So my life is TI at the minute I'm watching YouTube videos every day.

Rob: 9:31

So your your game that you've managed to get to the table is research for the game that you're about to get to the table. So it's a game in itself.

Kris: 9:41

How would things take you in my life? True. metagame

Rob: 9:44

Yeah, preparing. Playing the game was 10% off the game.

JP: 9:48

Now because we've got our lives I can post Christmas game

Kris: 9:51

It's clicking now. Obviously I haven't played so I have played once before, but about five at least five years ago. Did you? Yeah.

Ian: 10:01

The good thing about T.I. is it'll take so long to play that you'll have time during the game to refresh your memory on the rules like in a normal board game. If you spent 20 minutes looking over the rules that'd be quite disruptive and rude. Yeah, in T.I. that's just par for the course. Yeah, just like while someone else is taking peruse the rules are the shop. Bake a cake, take a shower. That's why I don't watch Anchorman. When it's JP said you go watch Anchorman. Yeah.

Kris: 10:30

I get the impression just quick fire around

Ian: 10:33

It's basically a party game.

Rob: 10:35

You'll be fine. Eight hours later you'll be alright.

Kris: 10:38

Yeah, that's the one concern. Yeah, well, it goes on.

JP: 10:42

Well, T.I. fourth edition. So slightly quicker than third. But it's it's it does depend. We only play to 10 points. For that reason play to 14, like you might as well throw another two or three hours on how many players have your five? No, it's fine. That's I think what we did six, seven hours

Kris: 11:00

We've gone two newbies.

JP: 11:03

Yeah, wow, they played you played once they've played once.

Rob: 11:06

If I bought my Xbox round, and plugged it in and said to me that I'm playing a seven hour board game. Can I just sit and play my Xbox for seven hours? Sure. Well, I think that's the only way I can pretty good strategy. But you've

JP: 11:22

But you've recorded this and she don't listen to me, if you're listening, ignore everything.

Ian: 11:29

Slag off a bit more then if she doesn't listen.

Rob: 11:31

I'm not gonna get away with playing seven hours of Xbox. Anyway, JP, what long list of games have you managed to get to the board?

JP: 11:41

Nicely diverted? Long that I've got? Yeah, I've had a few. But the one I'm going to focus on is actually last night's game, which was Lorenzo Il Magnifico.

Rob: 11:49

I've heard a lot about this game. I saw some comments about it on Board game trading UK.

JP: 11:54

Yeah, it's an older game, actually, I think came out around 2014 2015. Maybe probably even older than that.

Ian: 12:02

People shouting at their phones now. Yes. 2013.

JP: 12:08

But no, it's yeah, it's it's a game set in Renaissance Italy. Everyone get excited. And essentially, it's a worker placement game. But it's got kind of a unique kind of engine building card taking twist to it. So essentially, that you've got four towers on the board. You've got the green tower, just territories, you've got the blue tower, which is characters, you've got yellows, which have buildings, and you've got purples, which are called Adventures, which like endgame scoring. And the whole premise is that you've got four family members, three of them, you like and you've got this, like the poor cousin that no one likes. Here's like a wood

Rob: 12:46

True to life then.

JP: 12:49

Let's say you're the red player, which I predominantly am the red player, you've got three of your co workers that are red, and then you've got one that's kind of wooden colour with a red sticker on the top with a zero on. And essentially, you're, you have three dice on the board that you roll every round. And those dice determine like the power level of your, your workers. So you've got like a black, white and orange dice. If everyone rolls when those dice are rolled, and you get crap numbers, everyone's workers are crap, I have low power levels. If you get a high load of numbers, then everyone goes, yay, we can do lots of things. And the idea is that you spend servants, which is like a resource spending service. So it's kind of power up your Well, it's true.

Ian: 13:31

So super progressive in modern days proper, great.

JP: 13:36

And you can power them up to then go to certain action spaces, like the base level, you'll see like dice values on the worker placement spots of one. So your workers need to be at least level one. Some of them then like 3 5 7, do you need to power them up to get to those high spaces, and your poor cousin that no one likes is a value zero always, always needs to be chaperoned by the servants to actually be useful and do anything. But he's quite flexible. So you kind of go around you acquire the different cards, you're kind of building your your tableau of different cards that do different things. And you'll have like the green cards or for harvesting resources where you can run the kind of entire production chain. And the yellow cards are like buildings, which will do a lot of your conversions and victory points scoring and things like that. And again, it's just a very midway, kind of meaty Euro game.

Ian: 14:29

And I need to play this one again, because I've played this right, and everything you've just said sounded foreign to me, so I need to play it again.

JP: 14:38

Yeah, it's it's a classic. It's just it's good, fun.

Ian: 14:43

Yeah, reviewed very well, isn't it? It's very well respected in the community.

JP: 14:47

I like it. I like it a lot. And although I will, I will say that last night's game was shocking for me. To the point I think I scored my worst score ever, like embarrassingly bad.

Rob: 14:59

Is it your game?

JP: 15:00

It's my game. Yeah, yeah.

Ian: 15:01

I think actually Davey said that we have to mention specifically how it went. Yeah. As I was very clear about that. Yeah.

JP: 15:08

I'm not supposed to be on this episode. And I was keeping the bench warm. And, you know, Davey can't make it so and he was basically gonna mention how shit I did this game.

Rob: 15:20

So we were all going to rip into you. But now you're here we're, we're being

Ian: 15:23

It's more awkward

JP: 15:25

I'm getting in front of it. Instead, it's my mistake, I cocked up.

Rob: 15:31

That's the thing though. Sometimes when you play these games, you play amazingly. Oh, it's good. And then other times, you're terrible. Sometimes you're the hammer sometimes you're the nail. No, it's just the way it is. And games like that are almost quite refreshing because that can happen.

Ian: 15:46

Yeah. I think it's gonna happen to Kerley one day, one day, because I'm waiting for

Rob: 15:52

Miracles do happen.

Kris: 15:53

I mean, you know, it did happen with Viticulture during that time.

Ian: 15:56

Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure if he was he pointed out oh, I don't win all the time. I'm sure

Rob: 16:01

He would. I'm sure it'd be wrong as well. But no, it's nice. It's refreshing that because like I'm very much a novice in gaming. You are very knowledgeable. You read rulebooks.

JP: 16:16

I love rule books.

Rob: 16:18

So the fact that you've done terribly again, isn't a downside on you. It's quite refreshing.

Ian: 16:24

I know this feeling as well of being highly experienced at something but still not being highly proficient at it. These are two different things, right? You can play games all day long. All day, every day. It doesn't magically make you win. JP's like I wish it did.

JP: 16:44

If it's based on number of plays. I'd be so good.

Rob: 16:46

You'd be the absolute go to as well though. Did you have a good time?

JP: 16:50

Yeah it was it was good laugh, helped my brother was down. Which was nice to see because he doesn't live close. No to be fair. He was doing his present drops. So he just combined it with the game. So it was nice to see him. But yeah, no, it was a good game. Good, fun. Nice to get that to the table thing.

Rob: 17:05

You don't have to win to have a good time

JP: 17:06

A lot of piss taken, so it's fine.

Ian: 17:11

Oh, God, thank God, you don't need to win to have a good time.

Rob: 17:15

That'd be very few players.

JP: 17:18

I'll be taking up knitting as a hobby. This would be the knitting pod

Rob: 17:21

Or certain players will be banned from attending. Anyway, so I've got a public disclaimer. We're recording this before Christmas. And it is being released

JP: 17:33

Oh ruin the magic?

Rob: 17:33

In the new year. Yeah. So my wife this year has done like a family advent calendar. We have activities for us to all to do together. And she put in board game night.

JP: 17:45

Can you tell my wife to do this.

Rob: 17:48

If your wife does this, there's no way board game night is going in there as an option

JP: 17:52

She actively avoids board games,

Ian: 17:54

There'll be solo board game night, just for JP, the rest of the family can watch telly

JP: 18:00

You've given her an idea.

Ian: 18:02

Most nights anyway, right? JP?

Rob: 18:04

But I got home from work at half past six, only to be informed that it's board game night at seven. So of course had no game prepared. Kind of knew nothing about it. But I bought Zuuli at Gridcon. Yes. And it was still in it's wrapper because we still haven't gotten out. So far. It's a brilliant game that my eight year old can play. Yeah. It's simple enough that she can understand it with a bit of help. Yeah. So we crack that open for the first time and had a really good time. Yeah, yeah. My wife didn't realise it was three rounds. So when she saw zero on first round, she got quite irate. And then when she realised we would go in again. Oh, cool. And like everybody did really well. Everyone got the hang of it.

Ian: 18:49

Could be worse, my forst round of Zuuli, I got a negative

Rob: 18:52

You shouldn't get negatives in the rules.

Ian: 18:54

Oh, shouldn't I? Well, I need to take that up with Becky.

JP: 18:57

No, the more shocking thing is that you've read the rules.

Rob: 19:00

Had to, Amy was asking me so many questions about the cards that I could blag it so I had to read the rules. But when you say rulebook, it's a sheet. I can read that. That's fine. So yeah, we managed to play Zuuli not being funny, but I won. Yeah, the way it goes.

Ian: 19:22

And I bet all your family were like, oh, yeah, but you play board games all the time.

Rob: 19:26

No, they were like, you played this game before? And I was like, yeah, that's that's kind of big, you know.

Ian: 19:32

Even though your copy was shrink wrapped?

Rob: 19:34

Yeah we played it at Gridcon. And it's a wonderful game, my daughter love the artwork. Kind of trying to figure out what animal goes in. I know, obviously, a fish goes in water. But you know, when you've got a crocodile that can go in two different habitats

Ian: 19:49

It's really good with how it's all thematic like that, isn't it? The animals do fit the type. Like the fierce animals generally are like predators and vice versa.

Rob: 19:59

Yeah and it was really, it was really good. And we we got to play with the expansion as well. So there's a lot of different animals in there a lot of different cards, which was nice. And yeah, and we had a great time and the best thing about that game, we had it done in 45 minutes. Yeah. And that was from the teach to finish

Ian: 20:14

So you could get straight on to the Xbox.

Rob: 20:16

No. We watched Love Actually, which was a, I love that movie at Christmas. So um, so yeah, so case of get them to bed, so we can watch the movie before we fall asleep on the sofa because it's too late because you know, we've got children and gets to about 10 o'clock and it's a little bit dicey whether we're gonna get to the end of the movie or not. So we had to get on but no, we had a, we had a great time playing that. And I mean, I picked that up for 12 quid at Gridcon, and it was absolutely great. Like, you know, wonderful, wonderful, fun family games. So that's what I've been up to. And that brings us up to this week's segment dexterity games a little bit different from the usual board game. But games that are enough of them out there now and they're very wide ranging in their sort of sets and abilities and everything else. Obviously, we've got Ian with us who's an avid dexterity gamer.

Ian: 21:19

Yeah, I do enjoy a dexterity game

JP: 21:22

Finally got an episode he's excited about.

Ian: 21:25

I'm always excited to be on. I do love dexterity games. Yeah. Yes. I mean, we, we may have an upcoming episode on a game that I really really love as well, but we won't... We'll tease that later. But dexterity games. Yeah, definitely.

Rob: 21:40

My first sort of major, sort of go at dexterity game was actually at the UK boardgames Expo. Where me and you sat down for a game of Carrooker.

Ian: 21:51

Yes, yeah. Which is something that I've had my eye on. And since, you've actually bought a board, we still need to get together and play that, but I've been terrible at actually getting round to organising that with you. But I Carrooker is phenomenal.

Rob: 22:03

I love that. Absolutely love that. And it's we've talked about Carrooker before so I'm not going to rehash it. It's basically Snooker

JP: 22:11

Why is it Carrooker?

Rob: 22:13

It's snooker, or Pool on a round board with pockets dotted all the way around it. And it's sat on a lazy Susan. So rather than having to get up and physically walk around the table, you literally spin the board.

Ian: 22:28

And instead of balls, they're circular discs, yes. And instead of a cue your finger, your finger,

Rob: 22:36

Simple enough that everyone can get into. And I've told the story on the podcast before but not long after I got the board, I got home from work and found my mum playing it with my eight year old daughter, brilliant. And we've had loads of games with people who have come around and everybody knows Pool, I'm not a particular sort of snooker fan. So we tend to play the pool variant more than anything else, mainly because the scoring and I don't know what, it's more straightforward. I don't know what colour orders to go for. So we play them a lot. And again, you I would say you can knock out a game in about 10 minutes. But it does depend on skill level.

Ian: 23:13

Yeah, so definitely at the expo, me and you had a few... it's more the end game, wasn't it? It was like early game, there's enough discs on the board that it's like, well, if you just hit it hard enough, something's gonna go, go. It's when you're chasing those last couple of reds around the board. And it's like, we really should be able to pot one of these

Rob: 23:31

And theres eight people behind us waiting to play. We're really sorry. So no, I mean, just from that one playthrough I ordered a board.

Ian: 23:40

Yeah, I mean, you sat outside at the expo, basically pricing it up and saying, well, one of us is gonna buy this, It's gonna happen. So and I was like, I'm happy to buy it if you don't, and you're like I kind of want to buy it

Rob: 23:52

And there's such a lovely couple that have designed this game. Oh, yeah. You know, it's all done out of their workshop. Yeah, they're all handmade right to order handmade boards. All the equipment is handmade, you know, and they were lovely, lovely couple very patient with two idiots.

Ian: 24:10

They were very good at the teach. They had the Teach down. Yeah. See, they've been doing this a while. But yeah, it was lovely. Lovely to have them show us the game.

Rob: 24:18

And if anybody wants to check out this game, it's Carrooker.com I believe I'll put in the show notes. Yeah, put it in the show notes. Yeah, and no, just a wonderful game made by a couple of wonderful people. So yeah, 100% But that was my first foray into it. And then that kind of later on the next day we have the UK Crokinole Championships which I didn't take part of but you three did Chris You came up especially for it.

Ian: 24:43

Yeah. And we'll let you guess at home how things went.

Kris: 24:51

I yeah, this is a long story from my point of view.

JP: 24:55

Please tell it

Kris: 24:56

Well, it started before COVID with Ian brought his crokinole board around and we all got excited about it. And then you said you're going to start a competition at the at the Birmingham NEC and boom, the numbers that were involved in our group going there, there's a high chance that one of us could have won it or at least got high up in it. That planted a seed in my head. So I went out and bought a board. And then like two years later, because of COVID and stuff, was still waiting for this tournament. Yeah, I've invested a lot of time.

Ian: 25:28

Yeah. So you've had two years to practice?

Kris: 25:30

Yeah. Well, it's just yeah.

JP: 25:31

Good point Ian. Yeah.

Kris: 25:32

Yeah. But I haven't I haven't actually admitted to this to anyone yet, but I didn't actually clean my board on that day so my board that we played on the first day was absolutely shocking. And every time I got on that board, I was so ashamed of it.

Rob: 25:54

Did you start slagging it off? Like Whose board's this? It's terrible

Kris: 25:59

It just totally stymied my plans because JP beat me in the first game.

JP: 26:04

Okay, that set you on a downward spiral? Me who's probably played what, three times?

Ian: 26:09

Maybe? Yeah.

JP: 26:13

More than three games. But I've had like three, maybe four nights of crokinole experience. And I did not expect to do, like I expected to get knocked out. I was there just making up numbers.

Kris: 26:26

It was it was that one victory between you and me? If I'd won that one, then I'd been in the same position as you. Yeah,

JP: 26:32

I think you would have done that.

Kris: 26:34

Which would have been what made my day worthwhile

JP: 26:37

Oh, mate

Ian: 26:38

No, not that Kris has been like fixating on this since then. But did you have fun. No, no, no.

Rob: 26:47

You drove for 3 and a half hours to play in a tournament that you didn't enjoy. And 3 and a half hours back

Ian: 26:53

I imagined the drive home was even less fun.

Kris: 26:56

Also, it wasn't solely for that trip, but I'd actually bought the car as well. So I could go up easier rather than in my van.

Rob: 27:07

So there was an investment. Yeah,

Ian: 27:09

I'm starting to wish I hadn't organised this tournament. I feel like I've ruined Kris's life.

JP: 27:14

Just ruined his day.

Ian: 27:16

All right, I can live with that. Just the day I can live with us. Fine.

Rob: 27:19

But because I didn't play in the tournament because I was watching you guys and but never played Crokinole before, the first time I play isn't going to be in the UK Championship

Ian: 27:28

If it'd been a Carrooker tournament you would have been all over it. Yeah. And you only played that the day of?

Rob: 27:34

Yeah, that's true. The amount of people that came up to me, because we all had our hoodies on. So the amount of people that came up to me it was like what is this?

JP: 27:44

What, the hoodies, or...

Rob: 27:47

We did look like the world's shittiest motorbike gang

Ian: 27:51

We loved it. We do look like the least threatening gang of all time. Yeah.

Rob: 27:57

Got any board games mate? Do you want some?

Ian: 27:59

Opened a trench coat, was just T.I. 4 and it's expansions. You want some Too Many Bones mate?

Rob: 28:06

For the amount of people that that came up and were asking about the game? What was going on what the game is?

Ian: 28:12

Yeah, I mean, Crokinole is one of those great games that a lot like Carrooker, it's a conversation starter. If you just go and sit somewhere with a crokinole bored or you take Carrooker to a pub and just sit there, random people will just come up and start asking you what is this? Yeah, because it's just so intriguing. Like, we don't see many dexterity games really out in the wild. And we certainly don't see many, like, freeform kind of flicking disk type games. Like, you know, if you ask people to name a dexterity disc game, they'll start thinking things like Tiddlywinks. Yeah, you know, like, these are not usual games. For us, certainly in this country. I mean, if you live in a certain region of Ontario, then Crokinole will be a lot more familiar to you, but over here is still relatively unknown. But yeah, just the board and the presence and the nature of the game, you know, makes sounds, theres stuff happening all the time. It's very visceral and engaging. Yeah, just draws people in. And that's definitely what happened. The UKGE is just that. The fact people were playing just attracted other people, even though we were hidden away in a kind of dark and dank corner of the NEC. Yeah, like sort of our own little special area of the tournament zone away from everyone else.

JP: 29:30

I was gonna say we were next to the bring and buy, by so we could always hear Becky.

Ian: 29:33

Yes, yeah, we could hear her wallet being deployed. But no, it was it was really good. And yeah, just the passing traffic. Like you say, Rob, like people just won the tournament was over or as we were getting to the latest stages, and there were fewer boards in use, obviously, we could then just open it up to random people who wanted to give it a go and lots of people did. And that's the great thing about not just crokinole but so many of these dexterity games is that they're so simple and quick to learn. You just show someone and within five minutes they're playing and it's just so easy to get people hooked is a really easy sell.

JP: 30:08

What's the elevator pitch them for Crokinole. So those that are thinking what the hell is this?

Ian: 30:12

Yeah, so crokinole is a originally Canadian originated game back in there, I think 18 Hundreds the earliest references to it. In fact, it was a quick answer. Basically, it's a dexterity game played on a circular wooden board with three concentric circles that are used as scoring areas. There's a ditch around the outsides of the board has an edge discs can go off the board into that ditch, and they're out of play. And you basically flick these small discs, buttons, pucks, biscuits, they've got a lot of different names, cookies, even instead of biscuits,

Rob: 30:54

Why am I hungry?

Ian: 30:56

Where's the biscuits? Not catered for us. And it's interesting, the way that shut up and sit down describe it when they did a video about Crokinole, which is actually one of the things that got me into it. And a lot of people into it was the video that shut up and sit down did. Quinn's described it as an area control game, which actually at its heart is each round of Crokinole, you're trying to end up with more of your disks in higher scoring areas of the board than your opponent. And so in that way, it kind of isn't area control getting you're trying to flick other people's disks off the board with your disk to then, you know, basically steal that area from them. But it's a super simple game, there's a hole in the middle of the board, that's if the disc goes in that hole, then it's worth 20 points, and it's removed off the board. And then all the different areas, score different amounts. And that in itself would be a very simple and straightforward game. And then they decided to put some pegs around the centre circle of these three concentric rings, these kind of, you know, half inch tall, rubber coated pegs that your discs will bounce off of and inevitably end up in the ditch or certainly not where you wanted them to end up. That's basically what makes the game is the pegs and the fact that it makes it so much more difficult to execute the shots that you're trying to make.

Rob: 32:17

I was looking at the board and I was like, I should be able to get it through there. Every time. I took 10 shots. I think I got it through twice. Yeah. And it was like it again. Like it looks so simple. Yeah. But obviously it took there is a massive skill element to it. After watching Brian the world champion, yeah,

Ian: 32:38

Brian Cook who won the tournament. Yeah, and is an ex world champion as well.

Rob: 32:42

He was an absolute machine.

Ian: 32:45

He is a beast. I mean, this is a guy who grew up in Canada.

Rob: 32:48

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Because I was talking to him. And I said, like how long? You know, how long have you been playing with like, since I was about four years old? I'm like, you know, and he said, I've played this a lot. Yeah. But again, it was something that looked doable. And I think when I look at a Mindclash game,

JP: 33:08

yeah, like, oh, you go, Okay, go on the other end of the spectrum,

Rob: 33:11

Like a board and I'm just like, my eyes hurt. And you're just lost instantly. Yeah, my eyes hurt. But I can see the goal. I can see the plan. Yeah, yeah.

Ian: 33:22

To me, it's like, it's like a lot of other skill games like snooker or darts, or things like that. Throwing games with accuracy, you know, accuracy games, it's that everyone can see what you're trying to do and how to do it. It's Can you execute the thing that you're trying to do? Yeah, like everyone understands how to throw a triple 20 In darts. Like you throw the dart and it goes in the triple 20 It's a very simple process, right? No, but doing well. Doing it is almost impossible. It's the same Crokinole You can be like, Okay, I just need to shoot an open 20 here. And it's like everyone, everyone who's played crokinole probably at some point has scored an open 20. We all know how to do it. That was good. But can you do it under pressure when you really need to, you know, when you've just, you know, made a mistake that might have cost you the game if you don't make the 20 There's like all of these additional factors that make it very interesting. But yeah, it's one of those games is, you know, minutes to learn a lifetime to master.

Rob: 34:22

So I think the advantage is dexterity games is the majority of people can play the majority of the games. So there's a huge, huge dexterity game that probably every boy has played that was born before the 90s.

JP: 34:40

Sexist

Rob: 34:42

I say that because it was a it was a huge thing, especially in my school. None of us could play it, but we all knew how to play it. But none of us could do all the skill shots that were in the activity. Sorry that were in the advert.

JP: 34:56

Conkers. Conkers right?

Rob: 35:00

Subbuteo

Ian: 35:01

Ahhh, I had Subbuteo, yeah,

Rob: 35:03

And that's why I'm saying that most.

Ian: 35:05

I think most people who've played Subbuteo don't know how to play Subbuteo.

Rob: 35:10

The fun part was collecting the team and you'd like to win the cup

Ian: 35:15

Like put them out on the pitch in like their lineup, and the crowd, and put it away again. Yeah, yeah, I don't I think I ever played a game of Subbuteo. I don't know what the rules are or how it worked, but it's football right. I know that I had a little guy on a spring that you could use for throw-ins and that was a lot of fun.

Rob: 35:31

That was cool. Yeah.

Kris: 35:32

So the other day I don't know why came up. It was in maybe my search things for eBay. You can get streakers for Subbuteo.

Ian: 35:44

Not they just wobble around.

Rob: 35:49

Could you imagine a tournament and some asshole flicked on a streaker? That is brilliant. But that kind of got me thinking about you know how accessible this stuff is. And again, simple game, in theory,

Ian: 36:08

I mean, none of us actually know the rules, but it's probably simple. Exactly.

Rob: 36:12

So that was my first experience of a dexterity game without even kind of realising it. Because at the time it was that and HeroQuest that they were kind of the, the board gaming that they'll be, obviously just to show how much is kind of expanded. We, Tambo had a birthday barbecue a few years ago, and they Davey was like, we've got to play this game. We've got to play this game. And then he started setting up miniature forts and miniature, miniature town, Western. Yeah. And it was Flick'em Up. Yeah. You played this? It's a western themed shoot out.

Ian: 36:51

Yeah, basically, and it all revolves around, flicking. You flick people around. Yeah.

Rob: 36:57

And you flick the shooters around and the bullets around. And the amount of fun we had playing that game. Admittedly, we were a few beers deep by this point. Yeah,

Ian: 37:05

We definitely might have screwed up some of the rules and there was definitely some ganging up that happened. Oh, 100%. Some bullets that went off the table.

Rob: 37:14

But what a fun game, it was great. And you need no space to play it, basically a table. Yeah. You know, because you could just shorten the distance, that's it, we could make, you can make the layout smaller if you needed to. And that was my kind of first, you know, dexterity game in that like, that I was aware that it was a dexterity game. Because again, it looks so simple, and you're lining your shots up and you're flicking and then the it's just goes completely the wrong way you end up shooting your teammate. Alright, it was brilliant. We had such a blast playing it. And I don't think it's an expensive game.

JP: 37:51

I can't remember, I dunno if it's cheap, because it's, you know, there's a lot of pieces

Rob: 37:55

There was a lot of wooden bits

Ian: 37:56

I don't think it's massively expensive.

Rob: 37:59

No, and what a fun game to have at a barbecue. So dexterity games kind of have a theme with us when we seem to get together because in the summer when we met up to play Game of Thrones a few years ago, Kris turned around to us, big Kris and said let's go and play Kubb.

JP: 38:18

Done that few timest we?

Rob: 38:19

I thought he's hitting on me. But it turns out I was wrong because there is a garden game called Kubb. Anyway, it could be indoors, but I wouldn't recommend it. Or near anything breakable. This is the game that you decided to play in minus five weather. Yeah. So it's been around for for quite some time to be fair.

Kris: 38:39

I've not boned up on the history of it. Like, You told me it was Viking chess Yeah, I know. It's referred to as Viking chess in certain parts of the world as well.

Rob: 38:50

You made your own parts. You made the parts for this game, basically. Well, essentially it's s bits of wood that

Kris: 38:54

Well, essentiall, it's bits of wood you stand up and you throw big sticks at.

Ian: 38:58

Aren't essentially most things just bits of wood, could't you say? I hear you make tables well, it's really just

JP: 39:05

Some of these bits of wood are literally cut off stair bannisters. bits of wood

Ian: 39:09

Well, that's true.

Kris: 39:11

I repurposed them, I'm all about recycling.

Ian: 39:14

Some of them are also decorated, they've got characters on them and stuff, Star Wars characters, even

Rob: 39:19

Now, I know nothing about this game. Other than that, I was told that we all stand in a line. We throw bits of wood at the target to knock them over. But at the end, it's bit of a free for all and we go for the one in the middle. It's a game

Kris: 39:34

It's a game of skill, and violence, until the last few seconds where it just turns into total chaos, chaos and mayhem. And luck

Rob: 39:47

I mean, if you could tell me the rules now it just say that,

Ian: 39:51

Can I give you an analogy, because I think I've got a good analogy for this. So we talked about that earlier. Imagine darts played exactly as it's played now, turn base, but when one player gets close enough to zero, everyone in the audience starts throwing darts, and they all count. That's basically what Kubb is.

Rob: 40:11

And it was a great game. We played I think we played three or four games that day, and it was brilliant. So like we had such a good laugh playing it

Kris: 40:17

It's an all rounder. I mean, anyone could play, kids It's very accessible isn't it? Like most dexterity games and if play have played it since they were little and they know what to do and become a dead-eye shot with it as well. And anyone... you can just play one game and you've got everything it's just yeah you can get personal take out people shins, psych them out, mind games you can stand up and wouldn't even need to stand up not necessarily but as long as yeah as long as you can throw a cutoff bit of a Bannister under arm at about six feet, You say that, I do have to repeat the under-arm rule to lots of people because they start... No helicopters, or throwing overarm

Ian: 41:00

No cricket bowling. Not until the final round anyway, free for all just when Kris isn't looking.

Rob: 41:07

He's always looking. Always watching but no. And again, like something that I had never heard of. And just randomly and when everyone got really excited to go and play Kubb. I was like cool. Let's do this. And then when I got hold, watch your shins and saw how fast these things fly around. I was like, I like it.

Kris: 41:30

I'm a little bit scared. But I like it this element of real danger to just give us an edge.

Rob: 41:35

You don't get that in a dungeon crawler. High-octane tense game

Kris: 41:40

I mean the most danger we get from some of our board games is getting a paper cut. Yeah.

Rob: 41:45

Or accidentally spilling a drink on JP's table.

Ian: 41:48

I mean, then he'll just murder you Yes.

Rob: 41:52

But no again, it's just another example of a dexterity game. Very simple premise. Very easy to play very hard to get good at and like you said your kids have been playing it since they were young. They're really good at and us a few days deep in just trying to hit each other come to the end of it. It was a great experience. Because I think it gave everybody licence to kind of go

Ian: 42:11

Why do so many of our descriptions of games involve a little bit offbeat with it. I think it was, well if you're Yeah, but a few beers deep. Why is that always a qualifier for us? We've always had to little bit numb anyway. What's the harm? That's it. I mean, you know, you feel your shins in the morning but that's tomorrow's problem. Exactly.

Rob: 42:32

When we got when we got to sit down and start this, JP mentioned another game. Yeah, another Scandinavian game that I knew nothing about. Yeah, I'm gonna let him pronounce this. Yep, you did the research.

JP: 42:49

So I'm gonna butcher the name, but I think he's like Molkky or something like that. Was

Ian: 42:54

What was it?

JP: 42:55

Molkky

Rob: 42:55

I just wanted to say, one more time.

JP: 42:58

Molkky

Rob: 42:59

M O L K K Y

JP: 43:04

So it's similar to Kubb except you've got 12 kind of cylinder wooder stakey things that will cluster together. And you have this other piece of wood that you literally lob at the cylinders with the numbers on

Rob: 43:18

So it's kind ok like bowls with upright sticks.

JP: 43:23

And the goal of the game is that you need to score exactly 50.

Rob: 43:29

What if we can't count to 50?

JP: 43:31

Then you don't play the game, or get someone else to score,

Ian: 43:33

Then you go and play Kubb instead to engage in violence.

JP: 43:36

So you're kind of chucking the stick, you're hitting 1,2,5 Whatever over and I think there might be a rule if you knock them all over, then it cancels a score or something like that. I don't know the rules. So you know, too well

Rob: 43:50

You heard it here first people.

Kris: 43:53

If you go over 50, you bust Yes. Right again.

JP: 43:56

So yeah. And when you knock these these kind of wood pieces over, they naturally gradually get further and further and further apart then strategically, because then when you reset them, you stand them back up.

Ian: 44:06

Okay, so they start all clustered together. And then when they're knocked over, then no, stand them back up where they land. Yeah,

JP: 44:12

I see. So then you go, right, yes, you get close to 50, you know that you're going to need maybe a seven or

Ian: 44:18

five, you might try and work that one out onto it. So it's a race.

JP: 44:22

So you're racing the other players. So you might be thinking, how can I take three of these wooden pieces out and get? I don't know. 15 points.

Ian: 44:30

So is it turn base then? Yeah. Okay. But you're both playing with the same set of target same boards today. Yeah, but taking turns not real time? Yeah, correct. Okay,

JP: 44:40

So you kind of working through taking turns and obviously is a race to exactly 50. And if you do go over 50 As Chris said, You bust and then if you reset 25

Ian: 44:49

Something like that seems like it'd be harsh to reset.

JP: 44:52

You gotta go back up. And obviously, do you take the risks of trying to get three knocked down three at a time to get the perfect score, knowing that you might knock five down and go over? So yeah, it's an interesting, fun, long game. You can pick up on Amazon for like a tenner or you can make it like Kris out of stair bannisters

Kris: 45:10

And slightly linked to that and games we haven't mentioned yet, but just I've got a game called Cornhole, which is a great game.

Rob: 45:19

Is that the beanbag one?

Kris: 45:20

It's the beanbag one

Ian: 45:21

Again in the States they take that really seriously

Kris: 45:23

That has a World Championship

JP: 45:26

Not heard of this one

Ian: 45:28

Cornholes massive I think in the states, like Cornhole is quite a big like collegiate competition like different colleges like compete against each other and stuff then not quite to the extent of football and baseball

Rob: 45:37

From what I've seen, there's like a 10 foot gap between you and the board. Something like that,

Ian: 45:43

Maybe a little bit more

Kris: 45:46

Yes, a defined space between. You stand next to your little ramp with a hole in it. And you lob your beanbag into the opposing teams thing. If you go through the hole, you get three points. If it stays on the board, you get one point

JP: 46:03

If it doesn't slide off.

Ian: 46:05

It can knock previous attempts into that. If you come up short and then your next one knocks it in that hole, then it's still worth three

Rob: 46:11

Which is pretty cool. So it's on like a wedge shaped board. Okay,

Ian: 46:15

Yeah, it's like slanted towards you as you're throwing at it.

Rob: 46:19

I've only ever seen videos of guys just like Bang Bang Bang just launching straight for the hole, and you're like what the hell, the kids eight? Yeah.

Ian: 46:26

I think that the distance they stand back in like, you know, regulation, Cornhole set-ups, it's quite far, it looks like a pretty significant distance. I'm not sure I could have any chance of hitting the hole, even with a few attempts at that distance

Kris: 46:43

Again, my daughters are quite good at it, we've hit upon a theme here, because Kubb is just bits of wood. So I've made my own set, which is themed Star Wars, LEGO Star Wars. Of course, just to make it more fun. I've made a Cornhole set out using my sign making skills and furnished that with Muppets.

JP: 47:07

Basically the Muppets mouth

Kris: 47:08

Essentially yeah. Gonzo one end, and Fozzie the other

Rob: 47:17

I want to play it more now. I really want to play it more

Kris: 47:19

Maybe when it's a little bit warmer.

Ian: 47:22

In the summer, we'll have to book another, we'll do a barbeque or something, we'll just have all day long games. Or we could play Battlestar Galactica. We did that outside at a barbecue, didn't we? That was the infamous Battlestar Game

JP: 47:35

Yeah. He's already exposed himself on that one.

Ian: 47:38

Has that been revealed? Yeah, it's no longer the fishing trip.

Rob: 47:41

No, that was like, the fishing trip is Captain... Not Captain sonar.

Ian: 47:47

No we all know what happened to Captain Sonar. You just lost your shit.

Rob: 47:49

I think it is Captain Sonar the fishing trip

JP: 47:51

It was BSG. The original fishing trip mentioned

Ian: 47:57

But in terms of things that we don't bring up, yeah probably Captain Sonar was up there.

Rob: 48:05

Hang my head in shame.

Ian: 48:09

We'll get you to play it one day, you'll enjoy it.

Rob: 48:11

No I won't. So moving away from sort of garden games where you're throwing stuff at targets or people? Whichever you feel like, yeah. You bought a game on holiday with us JP when we went to France? Yes. And I watched you and Joshua, play it. Yeah. And we kind of said that we'll play this one day. And we never got round it it. But Joshua, I know, Joshua your son loves it. And I know you really enjoy it. And that is FlickFleet. Yeah, obviously, we've talked about this on the podcast with the creators and, and everything else. But again, simple. I say simple as in it's simple to play the game.

Ian: 48:54

Yeah, conceptually it's simple, isn't it?

Rob: 48:56

But to play it well..

Ian: 48:59

But there's more to it. Yeah.

JP: 49:01

So essentially I was actually editing the episode that we have in our back catalogue that Ian and Davey did when they interviewed Jack and Paul from Eurydice games, which was a great episode kind of explain how Eurydice games kind of created FlickFleet

Ian: 49:18

So interesting what those guys went through and like, how

Rob: 49:22

I don't think I require a 10th of the dedication that they you know, would be needed.

Ian: 49:28

Just wildly amazing, you know, the procuring that laser cutter and then yeah, the way that Paul like, puts together every set by hand and that whole process absolutely fascinates me, but the amount of work is unbelievable.

JP: 49:43

And their dedication to gamers and getting their product out to gamers all done in the UK. Obviously the probably not the most cheapest way of doing these things but they are so passionate about their product and game, the design and kind of getting that that

Ian: 50:02

Paul has to be because his house is full of acrylic boxed up games ready to go.

JP: 50:08

So I was I was editing the episode and I kind of got intrigued about the game so naturally, I'm looking up the game whilst finishing the editing and thought, that's actually a lot of fun, and I thought, You know what, I'll just pick a pick a copy of it. And me and Josh played like game after game after game. I think there's about three weeks we were playing, maybe every night. And he's come back from school because it plays really quick. But anyway, FlickFleet is essentially, spaceships battling each other on the table. And, and you can essentially basically flick the ships to move them It's not X-Wing

Kris: 50:48

Hang on...

Ian: 50:52

Basically X-Wing, but JP likes it

JP: 50:56

It's better than X-Wing, because one, you can flick the ships,

Ian: 50:59

You can still fly into stuff,

JP: 51:01

No, you can. But it's less of that kind of rules of you can't do anything if he hit stuff now, whatever. So you just damage the ships. Now I can take that I can take that. But yeah, you can flick the ships there, every ship has like an edge that you can flip from essentially where their engines are. So if you're trying to pull like a 90 degree right kind of turn, he kind of got flipped. It's a bit

Ian: 51:25

In FlickFleet, if you're trying to pull a 90 degree right turn you're being too brave, though, you're hoping for too much. The ships are gonna spin off into space.

JP: 51:36

So you got to manoeuvre in your kind of ships around and depending on the ship, you know, you've got one side is basically like the empire in Star Wars. They've got the big dreadnaughts and the big beefy ships, but you have less of them. Because all that done on a point system, you can have so many points, but they've got to be balanced. Like yeah, yeah. And then you got like the rebels who have got the smaller ships, but more kind of diversity and flexibility and doing stuff. But it's quite basic in compared to to X-Wing. And

Rob: 52:06

We need to start filming these podcasts because you can literally see the rage building in JP

JP: 52:18

And essentially, when you're firing at the other ships you typically are using like a D 10 dice to literally flick from the ships, you put the dice on the ship, I want to hit the other ship, I've got to flick this dice and hit the ship physically on the table,

Ian: 52:33

Which and what the dice lands on also affects the outcome as well. Yeah,

JP: 52:36

Once the shields are gone, then the numerical value of the dice will depend on what systems the ship starts to fail. It's every ship has these coloured discs on there. Some of the engines some are like shield generators, some are weapons systems and all this kind of thing. And if you get the right shot, and you can hit it and and land on the right number you like just disable the weapons. Yeah, but flicking that bloody detail in a straight line. It's not and when you execute that shot is just fantastic

Ian: 53:07

with a D10 it felt like it was almost always like a curve shot because of the shape of the D10 you're like, right, I'm gonna put it on its side. Because it's effectively kind of like a rugby ball. It'd be like trying to kick a rugby ball along the ground. international players can do so if you're very good, for me. It's not impossible. Yeah. I mean, Davey played a few games and we got to a point where we felt not proficient but competent and flicking a detail and we're to the point where we had some shots. But it's a lot of fun. Like when you start you are just flicking dice off the table left right and centre. Yeah, I sent one of my ships into the abyss as well. Because if you if you leave the game area, it's gone. It's just gone. Which is that's actually what happens in X-Wing. You go off the edge of the board.

JP: 53:54

Yeah. Okay. That never happened to me.

Ian: 53:58

That wasn't the problem, that are you never got to move far enough to go off the edge of the board did you?

Kris: 54:01

Crashed into asteroids every time you tried to turn

Ian: 54:04

Crashing into himself, that's the beauty of it.

JP: 54:06

My own ships, but no, it's a fun game. I've actually backed the Xeno Wars expansion because it makes it four player because it's only a two player game. Yeah. And I like the idea that it can be a four player game because I think there's a night like a game night is quite relaxing game night very chilled. And just having four teams on the mound at once.

Ian: 54:31

It adds a bunch more faction abilities and stuff.

Rob: 54:34

Anybody else got any others that they'd like to talk about?

Ian: 54:37

I wanted to give an honourable mention to Ice Cool. Dunno if anyone has played Ice Cool. Yeah. Brilliant game. So much fun. Basically, the board is made up of several rooms that have physical vertical walls coming up out of the board, and you flick heavily weighted Subbuteo esque penguins around trying to collect all the fish but the beauty is because of the way they're weighted in the base like Subbuteo players. You can kind of, you can do all sorts of cool little tricks with these penguins so you can kind of bend them around a corner. If you flick them on the side they'll sort of spiral and then curve round which is sort of cool, you can sort of try and go through this door and then round there and back through another door. If you're very skilled, which I'm not, you can actually jump them over the walls as well, by like flicking the top and getting it to hit the floor and propel itself up. Very difficult. It's like trying to do like an ollie on a skateboard is like, feels almost impossible if you can't already do it. And yeah, I just love

Kris: 55:44

We're all over those movements.

Ian: 55:48

Sorry, kick flips, then, you know, if you're a bit more advanced, you know, you can't really do a pop shove it with a penguin. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. And I always have to mention it just because a friend of mine that I play Netrunner with once qualified at the UK Games Expo for the European Championship of Ice Cool. They had a just a walk up tournament, which he played and promptly won. And there's now a video on the internet of him in I forget which Scandinavian country but playing in the European Championships. Which is very funny.

Rob: 56:20

So another game that we kind of just sort of thought about was a game called Klask, which I saw set up at your house on our gaming night out. And it's a game that I've seen online. I've seen people playing it on Facebook again, I think it was World Championships. Yeah. See some guys play

Ian: 56:43

I have watched the World Championship.

Rob: 56:48

But obviously, as you're the only person that owns it...

JP: 56:50

I own it,

Ian: 56:51

I own it as well, you're the only one who doesn't

Rob: 56:54

How have I never played this game then?

JP: 56:57

I'll bring it round when we next have our night with the ladies, New Year's Eve. Because she'll love it.

Rob: 57:03

Oh, yeah. But I thought Kris can, because yours is the only house that I've seen it in then. Kris, you want to tell us a little bit about Klask? Because obviously it's been around for a while as well I believe

Kris: 57:13

I didn't know much about it. But I'd bought it because I saw it and it looks fantastic. And it's just knocking things around. Which is my bag.

Rob: 57:22

So is it a magnet? Is there a magnets underneath?

Kris: 57:25

Underneath, which you control the the top magnet to you trying to hit the ball around. Just to get into the opponents hole.

JP: 57:32

It's like Air Hockey,

Kris: 57:33

Yeah, it's a bit like that. Yeah. But there's little random magnets that are placed on the board

JP: 57:39

Biscuits

Kris: 57:39

Biscuits, that you're not allowed to, to get them attached to your little man. Okay.

Ian: 57:47

I think the running joke is that everything in Klask is called a Klask. So I think the little man is a Klask. I think the hole that yo're trying to score into is a Klask, I think the ball as well is technically a Klask,

JP: 57:58

A Klask to get the Klask in the Klask.

Kris: 58:01

I read the instructions the other day for the Christmas party, just to remember... remind myself. It's called Klask because of the noise that magnets make. Oh, okay. It didn't know that when they you separate them and put them back together again, that the noise and that's why it's called Klask.

Rob: 58:15

Because I looked at it. And I was like, Well, Foosball changed. Because it is a little square.

Ian: 58:21

Yeah, yeah. The two player game

Rob: 58:23

Board, isn't it? So? So yeah, I've seen like, say, I've seen people play on Facebook. And, you know, these, these things flash up and it's quite interesting. Yeah. But yours is the only place that I've seen it. So that's why

JP: 58:35

It's just quick fun, you know, if I can't remember how much points you go to.

Kris: 58:40

Six

JP: 58:40

Yeah 6 point game .

Ian: 58:43

A point a point could take five seconds or 30 seconds it's, you know, if you're really good, or really bad, as far as it could take couple of minutes for a point. But fast. Yeah, you can play a whole game in just a few minutes. Just like Crokinole. Yeah, similar thing. Yeah. Awesome.

Rob: 58:57

So we've covered quite a few dexterity based games. I'm sure there are 1000s more. But again, accessible to everyone. Easy to play, difficult to master. I think that's kind of fair across all the games that we've sort of discussed. So if any of them take your fancy guys get out, play them, give them a go and

Ian: 59:20

Let us know in the comments as well. If there's a particular dexterity game we didn't mention, because there definitely will be that we should try. But if you think there's one that we should try based on that we already like, then yeah, let us know.

Rob: 59:42

So next up, it's time to answer our question that's been emailed from Paul Richards, email directly to us and I'll go through our handles in a minute if you guys want to get your questions in. So please feel free to get in touch and the question is, what's your best board game bargain? So obviously, that I've seen so many posts on Facebook saying pick this up in a charity shop for a fiver Yeah,

Ian: 1:00:06

Like original unopened HeroQuest. £2.50

JP: 1:00:10

I saw literally I think was yesterday someone got Battlestar Galactica in shrink, in shrink for 20 quid from a charity shop

Ian: 1:00:19

And I bet the charity shop thought they were taking the piss as well. Yeah, because anything being £20 quid in a charity shop is expensive.

JP: 1:00:25

I was like What 20 quid, in shrink!!

Ian: 1:00:28

What does that go for on eBay? £400 £500

JP: 1:00:32

Maybe not that much, the expansions will but not

Ian: 1:00:35

In shrink?

JP: 1:00:37

I mean, what I don't know is whether the charity shop put it in shrink.

Ian: 1:00:42

They probably got a shrink wrapping machine if they're smart, and it had half the components missing. You know, it was in Spanish or had too many Cylons. Kris,

Rob: 1:00:50

In which case, it's still worth more than £20. So, yeah, obviously, you've seen a lot of people posting stuff, things. So Ian, what's your best board game bargain?

Ian: 1:01:02

So I think for me, actually, and I know you guys did an episode recently about collectible card games and trading card games, living card games, stuff like that is the only game that I'm ahead in financially so very much the opposite of Too Many Bones for you, JP, if you can imagine. And that's KeyForge. So when KeyForge came out, I was very interested by the idea, I liked Netrunner. I liked Fantasy Flight and everything and Richard Garfield and all everything about it seemed like all this could be really good. So I picked up a few decks and we played a bit and it was okay, I enjoyed it well enough. But then I bought a deck and it turned out to be one of the like, most powerful decks out there. It was like it was what's called a four horsemen deck that particular four horsemen cards that kept recurring themselves and it also had this time travel card as well that effectively recurred your entire deck. It was just basically a bonkers combo deck. And so when I opened it, I was like, recognise that like, Oh, this is a really good deck, and I looked into it online. I was like, No, this is like a really, really good deck. So I sold on eBay and got like£250 quid for it.

Rob: 1:02:13

And how much did the original pack cost?

Ian: 1:02:15

So I think keyforge decks were like 13 quid 12 quid

JP: 1:02:20

I thought they were lower

Ian: 1:02:20

Or a tenner, around there anyway, around that kind of eight to 12 pounds.

JP: 1:02:25

So that is a bargain because you're up. Yeah.

Ian: 1:02:28

Even if I take into account the stack of other decks that I bought, weren't worth selling. I still came out ahead so my biggest bargain was KeyForge because I basically got paid to play KeyForge

Rob: 1:02:39

Do youclass yourself as a professional then?

Ian: 1:02:43

Well, you know, I don't like to brag, but I'm kind of a big deal.

Rob: 1:02:48

Isn't that true?

Ian: 1:02:50

Kris won't get the reference cuz you still need to watch Anchorman.

JP: 1:02:54

Sort it out Kris.

Rob: 1:02:55

Kris, what about yourself mate, what boardgame have you picked up fairly cheaply? That's turned out to be

Kris: 1:03:00

Well it depends on what you, how you value it. It's not about cheapness. It's how many times I've played it really? Because it's down to kittens, Exploding Kittens for me. I'm getting a withering look, here.

JP: 1:03:14

No no. I don't mind Exploding Kittens, It's Kerley that hates it.

Kris: 1:03:19

I've played the one I've got a base pack originally. And then I bought two pack seats again. But I've played it for years. And it's a great party game. Yeah, you can pick it out. I played it last week and with 13 of us around the table, and it was just mayhem and fun.

Rob: 1:03:42

So you've gone for how many? You've gone for price over time.

Ian: 1:03:47

Yeah. Price per play. Which is how JP is going to try and justify his answer.

JP: 1:03:53

He's shot me out of the water. Because his game cost like 15 quid.

Ian: 1:03:59

But he hasn't played it as much as you've played Too Many Bones

JP: 1:04:01

I don't know you might have

Kris: 1:04:04

The first original package just worn away just. But also there was a bargain that I got 20 Subbuteo Streakers.

JP: 1:04:17

I think you created those

Kris: 1:04:19

Nah, literally I did see it

Rob: 1:04:21

This is your design thing. Secretly. Alright, so

Ian: 1:04:25

Before the day of 3d printers as well, you'd have had to hand craft those streakers yourself. Filth

Rob: 1:04:32

If anybody does have them and find out that they are slightly different, we know that they've been made by Kris. Yeah. Awesome. JP, what's your best bargain?

JP: 1:04:42

I'm dreading this question.

Ian: 1:04:45

Nothing JP buys is a bargain.

JP: 1:04:48

I can't think of anything that's like, that I got on the cheap or bought as a bargain

Rob: 1:04:54

Cos you decided to get it from Kickstarter directly.

JP: 1:04:56

A lot of them have come from that route. So that means that nothing's a bargain.

Ian: 1:05:01

I mean, at this point, you must be getting a good deal on Kallax. Like do you have like a subscription with IKEA where they just like send you a Kallax every month

JP: 1:05:10

They've got little sensor in them so when they get filled, they just send me another one. But every time I try and look for a game, it's always either out of frickin print, or it's just I'm after a game that no one ever wants to sell, so it's kinda like I just don't seem to find them. Adrian on the podcast, it'd be different because he can sniff out. Like a Piggy and the truffles, getting the board game truffles.

Ian: 1:05:34

If you're looking for a bargain, I've got some X-Wing stuff I can sell. Yeah, it may be the same extreme stuff that you sold me but I'll do you a good deal.

JP: 1:05:43

I think that is a bargain considering that okay, I've sold it for a lot less than I bought it for but then I don't have X-Wing in my life.

Ian: 1:05:50

You'd be willing to pay 100 quid just not to have to play X-Wing.

JP: 1:05:54

It's fine. I'll give you it, if you'd asked, but you wanted to give me money

Rob: 1:05:58

On a similar vein, my best board game bargain actually come from JP.

JP: 1:06:06

As always, I pay full price

Ian: 1:06:08

JP buys it retail and then we get the bargains.

Rob: 1:06:10

It's kind of happened twice. So the first one I'm going to mention it was a lot of money. But compared to the Kickstarter edition, which it was, yeah, Was Zombicide. So you know, base game and two expansions. Yeah, yes. Two campaign expansions. Exactly. And we were looking at the UK Game Expo, I was looking at the prices and I think the expansions are on there for about 40/50 quid each

JP: 1:06:38

One of them is really hard to get, might be even a bit more

Rob: 1:06:41

So yeah, I mean, I bought that all from you. For what? 100 quid. Which, again, not cheap. But for me the best one. And to be honest, this is more like a dealer giving somebody a cheap hit, to reel them in. It was Descent, 2nd edition. And you weren't playing it. We played it with the girls once, and they got boards and went and watched something on TV

JP: 1:07:09

No, no, they went to play Mario Kart. That's correct. Cos that's just come out? Or I just got the switch. Yes, or something like that.

Ian: 1:07:17

You just bought a switch and you tried to get them to play Descent?

JP: 1:07:20

It really didn't work.

Rob: 1:07:23

Millie loved it, though, because you played them in two parts. So you did the first part. And the second part. And the first part, I think took quite a bit longer than expected. Yeah. So when you were like, lets play the second part of this, they were like no, so you weren't playing it, and you realised how much we loved it. So I think I bought it of you for about 40 quid. Yeah, I think. And of course that then led me down the rabbit hole. You're welcome. And and here I am today. So for me, I will quite happily take JP's unwanted bargain prices from now until the end of time.

Ian: 1:08:04

At the end of the day. We've all got our own different stories about how this is all JP's fault anyway. Right? Yeah. When he lured us all into the hobby one way or the other with me it was Netrunner, with you Descent

JP: 1:08:14

I just find the perfect games for you. Yeah, that's all it is

Rob: 1:08:18

He's a facilitator?

Ian: 1:08:19

Oh, yeah. Like he's a master groomer, knows exactly how to draw us in.

Rob: 1:08:26

That is not a title you want, but it's one you got regardless.

JP: 1:08:30

Thanks, guys.

Rob: 1:08:31

So thank you very much for the question. Thanks, Paul.

JP: 1:08:34

So yeah, I met Paul at Gridcon. So yeah, great to get your question in Paul. Appreciate it.

Rob: 1:08:41

Please keep them coming. Yeah. And that was time for our penultimate term where we kind of look forward to the gaming adventures yet to come. So Chris, I'm gonna start with you on this one. What are you looking forward to coming up?

Kris: 1:09:02

Like we mentioned, I think we've mentioned at the start of the podcast, that I'm homing in on T.I. , I've also got a game of Scythe in early February and is a long way off, but I'm actually looking forward to it I did and now I've put it to one side and others have been

Rob: 1:09:14

And JP is very happy that I have not put my name down for it. Yeah. You love Scythe don't you? You really enjoy it just focusing on the each new challenge that comes Nice.

Ian: 1:09:31

Feels like maybe you can't look beyond T.I at this. Yeah, you need to focus on that. Yeah.

Kris: 1:09:38

Two sets of rules can confuse

JP: 1:09:39

You have levelled up with Scythe though like when we played last? And I was like shit like, like stepped up? Because I think you just played so much of it like solo you've been going deep on the solo.

Kris: 1:09:51

Yeah, playing with the app, but I spent years just turning up the places to play games for fun. Apparently that's not what you do. You got to learn the rules.

Rob: 1:10:06

They're more like guideline books than actual rules

Ian: 1:10:09

I can validate you don't have to learn the rules. You can just keep trying to do things and JP'll keep shouting at you when it's not allowed.

JP: 1:10:19

Thanks, guys.

Rob: 1:10:20

Obviously, I'm staying well away from that, but I hope you guys have a wonderful time. Ian what're you looking forward to?

Ian: 1:10:29

This is the part of the podcast where I defend myself about the games that I've not arranged to play. I did try to sign up for a game with the group but unfortunately I signed up and then immediately noticed it was on a day that me Kris and Becky are already going to Wales to play Crokinole. So I am looking forward to going and playing, it's not a game with the group but it is with people from the group so that'll be fun. We've got a little... Steve Burrows he's set up a little tournament at his home and he's got a few teams turning up so we're gonna go and represent Whose Turn Is It Anyway, yeah bring home the glory

Kris: 1:11:01

Do we have to wear our hoodies?

Ian: 1:11:03

Of course you have to

JP: 1:11:03

And I expect full social media coverage

Ian: 1:11:05

And I'll be getting masks made of each other's faces so that we can we can all cosplay as each other

JP: 1:11:13

I mean whatever floats your boat yeah

Ian: 1:11:16

Keeps me interested. So I look forward to that, me and JP have got an episode record coming up in January for Netrunner.

JP: 1:11:25

He's teasing everyone

Ian: 1:11:27

Just dropping these reveal bombs left right and centre. But yeah, obviously, as we've discussed before, big Netrunner fan. Which's all JP's fault. So he also has to be on the episode. So we look forward to recording that, maybe we'll try and play some Netrunner before then, that'll be a good idea.

JP: 1:11:42

Yeah, we can. We'll try but we have played enough of it to know enough about the game and stuff. But no, I'm looking forward to that, awesome

Rob: 1:11:51

JP, what've you got planned mate?

JP: 1:11:52

So obviously we've got Christmas coming up. Twilight Imperium as Kris says, big Kris. Big Kris, little Chris,

Rob: 1:12:00

I can only hear in a London accent from Lock Stock

JP: 1:12:06

Yeah, I mean, the fact that Twilight Imperium gets played four times a year, at best, at best.

Rob: 1:12:14

There's only so many hours in the year.

Ian: 1:12:15

I mean, pushing the limits,

JP: 1:12:18

It's always nice just to get that in the calendar. So I'm looking forward to that. And all the shenanigans that will ensue with that game with political bartering, and basically killing other people spaceships for seven hours

Ian: 1:12:31

Backstabbing and shithousing

JP: 1:12:33

All that kind of stuff. But actually looking forward to returning to the good ship ISS Vanguard, which I really want to play this, thoroughly enjoying right now. I think it's like our fourth mission, I think my favourite moment in this game without spoiling it, because if anyone is playing, I don't want to spoil anything. Because it's one of those kinds of campaign games that, you know, it's very narrative driven and want people to experience it. But we had a situation on the planet. And this situation this planet was like, overridden with like kind of wildlife, he got bugs and plants that basically tried to kill you. And Kerley, Kerley is crew mate. And he's like chief of science. So Kerley's crew member is in a spot of bother. And we had to basically get everyone back to the ship, so that we can take off and get back to the space station. But unfortunately, Kerley's character was not going to be able to make it. So we had to make the decision to leave a good man behind. Which he was not happy about why.

Ian: 1:13:40

He was like, Guys, I'm not going to make it go on without me. And you're like, Yeah, okay, fine.

JP: 1:13:45

This is, we really think you need to stay. Otherwise, we're all gonna fail the mission. And it was like, but I don't want to make my character die. So yeah, this really selfish look. How can we just why don't we all die together guys? If I'm gonna die, we might as well all die We do it so that we all get no, no, we just, you just die. We'll remember you. You did well, brilliant. Basically, it's not like he dies. It's one of his crew of his section dies.

Ian: 1:14:17

That sounds like every game of Gloomhaven I ever played right. I just ended up dying for the greater good. No, you ended up going and opening all the doors one time that happened? Yes, it was catastrophic. But only one time. I open all the doors. And that's because it was my personal mission.

JP: 1:14:31

And it was funny. But yeah, so that was kind of our defining moment. Our little story of Amir I think is his name was. His crew member who got left behind, who sacrificed his life for the greater good at the mission and

Ian: 1:14:48

Begrudgingly

JP: 1:14:50

but Kerley, we thank you. Yeah, I look forward to it, just great fun to

Rob: 1:14:56

Everything anyone said about this game, it sounds right up my street,

JP: 1:15:01

Mass Effects slash Xcom. If you like those kinds of games.

Rob: 1:15:07

I really want to play yeah,

JP: 1:15:10

I'm sure I'll probably go through again, once we're done. I don't actually know how big it is. As a campaign game. I'm hoping that's not too big. You know how some of these can be like, Yeah, she'll play 50 games, I don't want to play 50 games. I mean, it's good, but it's oh my god,

Ian: 1:15:24

It's not like... it's not Too Many Bones.

JP: 1:15:26

How am I gonna get to the end of it? But I'm enjoying it so far. I'm just looking forward to jumping back in. So we got a couple of nights on that at some point over Christmas. Yeah, that's me.

Rob: 1:15:36

To be honest. I'm just looking forward to having a bit of a break at Christmas.

Ian: 1:15:39

Yeah, I think everyone's in that boat.

Rob: 1:15:41

Yeah, and I've asked for a game for Christmas. Hopefully it comes. Journeys through Middle Earth. So again, Hobbit Descent, ish. Smaller Hobbit, Hobbit Mansions of Madness. But speaking of Mansions, we've got a game booked in. It's first time I've played it in a couple of years. It's one of those games that I forget. I know I love it. But I forget how much I love it until I sit down and play it. I think it's your first time playing it, Chris. Yeah, I think you'll really enjoy it mate, it's really, really good. One and done episodic one and done episodic.

Ian: 1:16:22

But like, self contained,

Rob: 1:16:24

Self contained episodes. So obviously, you know, there is a story element to it. But obviously, it doesn't lead anywhere else, which actually is quite nice. Yeah. The fact that you can just pick up a random

Ian: 1:16:34

There's like narrative context. But you don't have to invest. It's not like a Gloomhaven where it's like, it matters what you did last standalone.

Rob: 1:16:42

So I think you'll really enjoy it. I'm really, really looking forward to play in that. So yeah, hopefully, we'll have a blast. And hopefully we'll make it through. I think I've only won one one scenario. So some of them are now elves. But when it should be good, fun, good stuff. Sweet. So it's that time where we total up victory points, and we decide that JP lost horrifically, again again. But you know, some of us are just here to happy to take part.

Ian: 1:17:09

I'm gonna say I probably was a close second to last

JP: 1:17:12

Didn't even show up.

Ian: 1:17:16

I messaged you half an hour before and say oh, sorry mate I cant make it.

Rob: 1:17:20

Thank you very much for joining me guys. Obviously, your knowledge of dexterity games is far superior to my own. And it'd be a pretty boring podcast if it was me talking about dexterity games that I've played, because, well, to be fair, would have been a couple minutes long. So some people view that as a positive others negative, but I'm gonna thank you very much for joining me, guys.

Ian: 1:17:41

And thank you for filling that first player. Yeah, sounds so good. Heavy is the crown and all that

Rob: 1:17:48

I've just relieved it's over. JP will attest that my, you know, my organisational skills are lacking, shall we say, trying to get four people on a date where everyone's available. When I can barely tell when I'm available has been the biggest challenge but also

Ian: 1:18:05

JP has high standards. The project manager in him is, you know, the pedantry is strong.

JP: 1:18:11

It's very strong.

Rob: 1:18:11

To be fair, to be fair kept on task, but no, thank you very much. I've actually really enjoyed being first player, because we talked about all the subjects that I wanted to talk about

JP: 1:18:20

But that said, that's the bonus of being first players, selfishly, I want to talk about these things. You guys never talk about this stuff

Rob: 1:18:27

No, thank you very much. And thank you for your support. It's been good fun. It's been a good laugh. So if anybody listening would like to contact us, we have quite a few ways of doing that. You can email us directly, which is players@whoseturn.co.uk We're on Facebook. Whose turn is it anyway podcast. Instagram is@whoseturnpodcast and Tiktok is@whoseturnisit anyway. Please don't forget we are listed on Board Game Geek. So please go there to check us out and officially join our cult. Right. So thank you very much for joining us. Who's done it anyway