Kerley: 0:29

Welcome to Whose turn is it anyway, podcast all about our gaming group. And of course for games I'm Kerley your current first player, and I am joined by my other co hosts, Davey.

Davey: 0:39

Hello,

Kerley: 0:41

JP.

JP: 0:42

Hello.

Kerley: 0:44

For the first time Dan Apsey hey, welcome.

Dan Apsey: 0:50

Hello. amazing to be here.

Kerley: 0:53

Glad to have you mate.

JP: 0:54

So Dan, you obviously appeared in our previous episodes, many

Dan Apsey: 0:59

I am the only person this is record breaking. I'm the only person that has been a guest and is now featured on as a player.

JP: 1:09

Absolutely

Dan Apsey: 1:09

on the pod.

Davey: 1:10

Yeah,I must give you a medal. I think that's what we're gonna have to do.

Dan Apsey: 1:13

Adrian said that he wanted to do an erection, steady now of a statue in my name. I said it wasn't necessary.

Davey: 1:20

I said, I wondered where this was.

Kerley: 1:22

But then we realised we have budget cuts. So we've got Yeah.

JP: 1:30

Bit by row, you know, that's great. But in all seriousness,

Dan Apsey: 1:33

great to have you here. Thank you.

JP: 1:35

We've had I think ever since the that episode. We've kind of always kept in touch right. And obviously with the boardgame marathon, which we fully love,

Dan Apsey: 1:43

I don't know.

JP: 1:44

Yeah, sure. But we fully love it, we fully support you. And we had such a blast this year last year. And

Kerley: 1:52

yeah, looking forward to January. Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 1:54

Mini Marathon, which is gonna be good. And tickets going very, very well look forward to that.

JP: 1:59

But it's great. Good to have you as a player ,a regular member,

Dan Apsey: 2:02

it's nice to come and talk about board games with other players who are also friends. It's great. Let's do this. Let's do it.

Kerley: 2:09

Yeah. As the first time people appear on the podcast, there's a couple of little questions for you just to give people a bit of an idea of some of your, you know, favourite games, things like that. So start us off. What's your favourite game

Dan Apsey: 2:22

Kerr plunk? No.

Davey: 2:25

Wrong and we kick you I know. Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 2:29

And he's gone to be seen again,

Kerley: 2:32

this is a test

Dan Apsey: 2:33

Frostpunk is my all time number one favourite. And it's been there for a while. And I think like, people are not good, because it's the new hotness, and it's amazing at the time. But no, I really, really love this game. It is truly incredible. And I'm not a big fan of co ops. I know shock. Right? But I love this game because of the narrative. It's strong theme. I love that video game anyway. So I was kinda like buzzing for this one, it comes out when it finally landed. I played it and it plays completely different to the video game, but with the same kind of thematics that you expect from it. And it's really incredible. I love it. I haven't gotten to the table too many times, but enough to make my judgement call on it. That is my number one top spot. But it is brilliant. And it does take a long time to play you mean six hours and a few cups of teas. If you can get through it. It is truly only a few. Only a few. A few only a few

Kerley: 3:29

Dan rations his cups of teas when I'm around. But JP Yeah, no, no

JP: 3:35

Yeah, what is the what's the rule? Davey?

Davey: 3:37

You can make your own.

JP: 3:39

I make you the first one.

Davey: 3:40

Yeah. First one.

JP: 3:42

And if you want more

Dan Apsey: 3:44

sometimes the game right this is the game.

Davey: 3:48

Your life your first play around your house. Right? And

Kerley: 3:54

yeah, and he's always yellow even.

Dan Apsey: 3:56

This is a thing in my house. I have I have some sort of illness. I don't know what it is. I have to be yellow. Otherwise I get Salty. Yeah. And if I'm not if I'm not yellow, you know, first or first. First. My brother always had Luigi.

Davey: 4:13

So you're blaming him?

Dan Apsey: 4:14

I am always mario. I'm sorry. It's just the way it goes.

Kerley: 4:18

You know, and you might think that Dan's joking from his tone. I will say the first play of it. It's not quite true certain games he always always sets himself up nemesis, Nemesis, Nemesis, example. But it's not all of them. But Yellow he actually gets shitty about Yeah, not

Dan Apsey: 4:36

much I can't play another colour because I believe that I'm yellow. I'm doing really really well. You're not yellow Yeah, of course. I put my head in shame but yeah, that's what I'm that's it I'm stuck in my ways now has to be yellow. Terrible. That's fair enough. If there's no yellow then it will have to be like a soft beige. Wood one. can I have the word one please.

Kerley: 4:59

And if it doesn't have either of them you just don't play No, right? No fair enough. So Dan, what game are you enjoying right now ?

Dan Apsey: 5:06

voidfall I absolutely love voidfall I know the pod has spoken about it a lot. But it is truly fantastic. It's another minecraft smash in my opinion. I think I own all mindclash games now I think and it's it's up there I haven't quite decided where I'm going to kind of put it in my kind of top 10 But he's going in there if you'd like 4X and you're like space which I do Twilight Imperium I love you but you know there's a special place in my heart right now for VF

Kerley: 5:34

good choice definitely definitely on the boat. Oh yeah, yeah,

Davey: 5:39

it's hit one of my top five already Yeah, you've got went balls deep

JP: 5:45

she's gonna say you went balls.

Kerley: 5:46

Yeah, and

JP: 5:48

you told the balls out of your mouth

Dan Apsey: 5:49

yeah. Later dan looked over the table. And wondered what he's let himself in for

Kerley: 5:58

you knew and with that, welcome to the pod Dan. You're very very welcome here my friend. Thanks. And we're looking forward to doing many many episodes with you

Dan Apsey: 6:10

can't wait

Kerley: 6:11

and we'll move on to the next segment let's talk about hex so JP What have you been up to my friend?

JP: 6:25

I've been playing a lot of solo stuff in kind of recuperate for after the holidays not because you're miserable or it's because I don't want to see you yeah you're not

Davey: 6:33

now a master of solo yeah yeah, we're gonna call you something else

JP: 6:36

but please don't but now it came back up holiday had loads of games and like a week was mega packed with podcast stuff and gaming and then kind of this week in taking it more easy which has been nice actually. So played a little bit of voidfall solo. But I'm not talking about that much in the talk about my other game which is hoplo Marcus Victorium, which is a solo only game made by Chip theory games. And you guys are probably all theory.

Dan Apsey: 7:05

I don't know. A new publisher

Kerley: 7:10

definitely haven't sunk over a grand into their product.

Davey: 7:15

JP funded the company Yeah. CEO.

Kerley: 7:19

A shareholder.

JP: 7:19

Yeah, I wish I wish. But no, they, they you guys have played remastered which is the kind of competitive against each other and loved it. And yeah, it was good, you know, kind of bashing each other kind of thing. Well, Victorian was, like I say you just play on your own. And it's the most lavish, overproduced board gaming experience that you can treat yourself with as anything. It's absolutely stunning. No one

Davey: 7:46

else to show your pieces to really do. So it's more like this is just for me.

JP: 7:50

I feel guilty about not not that guilty. Yeah. But in fact that I kind of get this game out and no one else gets to see it. And no one else. But me

Davey: 8:00

just get throne next as well. So you've whenever you play, you put up this throne and you sit out and then you're right. I'm playing hoplo today. Yes,

Kerley: 8:07

I'll be going into LARPing territory. He's gonna dress up for a full Centurion outfield, nobody's gonna see it coming into the loincloth.

Dan Apsey: 8:18

for My own self.

JP: 8:21

Just to me shout just for me.

Davey: 8:24

Every time a piece is gone, you're like whoa, thumbs up or thumbs down. Thumbs down.

JP: 8:30

Sothe premise of the game is you are you pick one of the seven characters that are across the this mythical world. And they're all basically the same factions that you play Remastered. So you've got like, the the new Argonauts, you've got the Amazons, you've got the Conlon and the emotions, etc. So you kind of pick their champion to kind of play as, and you start with a certain level of stats and certain skills that you would have. And you kind of have these kind of other kind of special skills called prowess. And they're like this deck of cards that you can unlock throughout the game, give yourself more and more abilities and just make yourself more powerful and level up. And you kind of traverse the world over a four act campaign. And each kind of act takes probably a couple of hours. So you're looking at to do a game of Victorian it's probably about six to eight hours if you really just crank you know, crack on with it. And you kind of travel the world you're doing like bloodshed events, which are lethal that add to the death. And you're kind of recruiting kind of units there to help you with your band from all the different regions as well. So each region has their own kind of uniqueness about them their own special skills, what you're after, very similar to what you've played in Remastered. And then yeah, so you kind of traverse in the world until at the end of each act, you have to kind of fight a boss which is called a Primus and they are one of the opposing heroes that you didn't pick. And you're going to try and defeat them up and all the way to the end of the four factor. You're taking down the science or the science of these big bad beasts that you've got to kill like the Hydra, and coyote and all these other kind of mythical creatures that I've confirmed. I don't think he's one of those you can tell hes One of the vetoed and Pluto's like the big, big, bad. And what's nice is that each of the regions has their own mini kind of arena mats. And they will have special rules around them. So one, you could be shackled up with one of your units, and another one has a chariot racing around. And it's really cool to kind of fly on those. But it's just bloody good fun.

Davey: 10:38

So it sounds amazing. Yeah. What's the upkeep like? Like how much bookkeeping is yesterday? Because it's asking a lot of bookkeeping is

JP: 10:46

limited, isn't it? Yeah. Little tracker done.

Davey: 10:48

Well, yeah, it's not that bad. Because that can be a very real like, kind of, yeah, turn off to how much upkeep you sometimes have to do when you set up will remember where you are? And

JP: 11:00

no, it's that easy. To be fair, you kind of you can store it away and save the kind of position of you know what units are in the bag. What units are in your camp, what progress cars, you've unlocked, where your stats are, and you've got a tracking sheet, just take a photo of it. And then you can pack it away. It's the cell. Too bad. Yeah, the only thing that the downside to it from Pete, for me personally, is the fact that it's a four app campaign that can take eight hours. So it's trying to get that to the table in between the gaming events and nights. And it's just thinking, right, tonight, I'm going to sit down and play act two life just getting in the way sometimes, but I suppose to counteract that, because it's solo, you can squeeze it and just do it. But so yeah, I kind of played it this week, because the new game found campaigns got launched for some of the expansion content. And I just thought, you know what, I'm gonna bloody play that again. And I absolutely just had a blast with it. And, and just keeps telling me just keep playing it, mate. It's good fun. But I just love that. As I said, the production is great. You get this thing called stadium seating, right? And it's this hydro dipped plastic tray. Looks like marble, and all the chips sit in there. And it's basically like sitting in an arena. So amazing. And just when you just feel like you know, everything today, you start playing

Davey: 12:24

crowd noises. And I've seen kids as well.

Kerley: 12:31

It's good. Yeah. Simon combs. Good. All right, David. We've been up to them.

Davey: 12:39

So I think I mentioned quite a while ago that I was going to play age of innovation with Marcus. So we've got a table. And I've just got to say, so I've actually played it twice now with him. The first time I was torn as to whether it would knock Gaia from his place for me because guy project. So if you don't know what age of innovation is, is pretty much Terra Mystica 2.0. It's got all of what all of the features you want from Terra Mystica. But it's taken away the so the biggest problem with terra mystica who was people have played it loads, there's not much variability, you're pretty much set, a lot of people know the best combinations, they know what to do. This has added so much variability that you it's pretty much taken off the table. But it's kept the tight map, which is actually really nice. So whereas before you had a set faction and train type, now you can have certain factions joined together. So whereas before it was it was always swamp and I can't actually remember only pay to ask a couple times swamp, I don't know which is now you can be swamp philosophers say. And then you can have these combinations together. But it doesn't end there. You've also got innovations, which are these little slots to your right of your board. And there's a new resource which are books, you collect those over the game. And they're going to be extra powers or scoring that you can get in slot into your board, which are like objectives to work towards. And what's really interesting is Marcus other game where you didn't build any ad again, we're both three. And we were like two hours like two points behind him. So you don't have to do it. But it's like another way of building a strategy and going from there certain factions are better at it depending on what combination you get, because obviously what faction you are all have different boards. So whereas before to terraform it costs one spade and you know, that can be three tools. And as you go up the rank it costs four money in a man. Yeah. And the tool. Whereas now some boards, it only cost you one money and a map or one money amount and the tools it's a lot cheaper to gather board. So you will have that like really different strategies going forward. The map still the same, which is quite like the terrorists can map the only downside of mountain, Terra Mystica was the tech tree and everything else wasn't as interesting. Whereas now there's the track wasn't Yeah, exactly. Whereas now they've still got that track. But now you've got the board pieces with the tech tiles like Gaia eject. Also, what's interesting is your palace, your palace isn't the set power anymore. Okay, you've got six powers out to the side of the board, when you build your palace, if you're the first one to build it, you get a choice out of that six. So your power could kind of see your tailor can change. Yeah, every game. So the variability, you do a draft at the start, the last player gets to pick first, which adds a nice bonus for the last player bounces out. And you pick a combination. And also there, you've got the starting tiles on them as well, the ones that you pick that give you a little bonus, those are within the actual pile of goodies that you pick from that faction. So that might also change how you want to start, you're thinking all that starting time is actually really good for this combination here. I'm gonna pick this one here, and then off you go. And the more I've played it, the more I've enjoyed it. I know it's only two plays so far, but it's definitely a game I think I'm gonna go back to a lot. And it's got me thinking more do I still play skier with it? Do I just get rid of innovation, calm it down, I know, it's really good is really good. And I'm really because I do like glide project. And I do like the map, but also the map can have issues where sometimes you just don't interact with each other, we'll get because your planets have ended up very nicely. And you can just go down here and be like, catch you guys later, I'm not gonna interact with you. Which, obviously, there's downsides. And there's benefits, because you're not going as much power but you could have, you could have a faction that just doesn't need to. And therefore you're kind of playing the solo game, whereas terra mystica has got that tight board. And you have to be a little bit more tactical about where you're going and who if, obviously, if you're going near someone for the power, but they're a faction that can easily take the tiles next to you, you're gonna get swamped. But then there's also might be an agent, there might be an innovation out where you only need two buildings to make a city. And you're like, Oh, well, I can do these two buildings build another tech that gives the extra power because your annex is now as well neutral buildings, which are really cool. And I'm just going to make a two building city doesn't matter. And do the whole tool rather than wide route. Are you gonna buy it? I haven't got it by I'm torn. But Marx has got it and playing it Friday as well. So I'm planning I mean,

JP: 17:34

to be fair, like this high praise coming from you, because I know how much you love God project. Yeah. And I think because it's so similar to obviously Terra Mystica. Because it's an evolution of it. Even to games a bit. Yeah, you're no, yeah. No. Because the st the system's pretty much the same underneath, right? Yes. Trying to do Yeah, as

Davey: 17:54

soon as we started getting on I was like, I'm doing this this. Fly away with it. And the artwork

JP: 17:58

is so much better. Yes.

Davey: 17:59

And the buildings, all little buildings with like actual wooden pieces of buildings and stuff. So when you build out the board, it all looks really nice. And it's strange, because I love gaia project But I'd like to investigate but I would prefer to buy a project and Marcus is he prefers Terra Mystica doesn't like BioProject whereas a new agent minimization is obviously amalgamation of the two. But it's it's still different enough that you can have both games, but I don't think I could justify it

Kerley: 18:31

might be one that I could look at because I had Terra Mystica. And then I fell in love with God project. Yeah, what's pointing me?

Davey: 18:37

Yeah, so you're like, eventually

Kerley: 18:40

be something that I could look like. Because it'd be it'd be nice to have that in the group.

Davey: 18:44

Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's I think you're you're really like,

JP: 18:47

you take the bullet. Yeah, yeah, well,

Kerley: 18:51

spending my money.

Davey: 18:52

It's not too bad as well from about 60 Something pounds which sound but with the amount you get with it? It's not bad Terra

Kerley: 18:59

Mystica type games have always been that sort of price. Yeah, I paid 55 For Terra Mystica which is quite an old game

Dan Apsey: 19:05

there's a lot of bits there's a lot there wasn't a lot

Davey: 19:08

Yeah, and this when you get loaded in also it's got inset boards. OH MY GOD Power doesn't slide everywhere when you're not like stuff slots in nicely. Oh, yes. And also the one of the best bits is it says so on your back on your train board. You put that down so swamp, you slug your player in and then it says swamp philosophers or mountain lizard. So it's got a written above there as well. I

Kerley: 19:37

like Yeah, it's

Davey: 19:38

cool. Like it's cool.

JP: 19:39

customizability Yeah,

Kerley: 19:42

I'm going to be greedy and talk about my game next. So on that note with you in market, I went to Marcus's house the other day and we played net runner for the first time

JP: 19:52

stealing everyone from the group trying to take over. If you're listening mate, we've got our eyes on you. We love you. We love you. We love you. He's great.

Kerley: 20:03

So yeah, and it just reignited my love of the game really I'm not going to go into a lot of detail we've talked about it on a previously on the on the pod but is just made a new deck messed around with the one I had watching markus is building his own kind of decks from the original You know nice a starter packs and oh, what's it called system update system update. Thank you, JP Oh gateway

JP: 20:23

our system gateway see yeah

Kerley: 20:26

and just make watching him make his deck was just really interesting and so we were discussing how many hosts do you put in your deck and you know all this kind of stuff strategies and yeah just I was like oh this is amazing so for about four hours we just sat there and bashed our few games it's just really really good fun. And we're gonna do it again. So you know, I think JP, you want to we need to get one more person I think we'll get me you Marcus. I'd like to play.

JP: 20:51

I need to play more. And I don't I love it. I'm shattered it by love it.

Kerley: 20:56

Yeah. But yeah, that's all I wanted to say. I'm not gonna go into any great detail because

JP: 21:00

I've got a question go, who did you play?

Kerley: 21:03

So I played as Haas bioroid. Who as Oh, yeah, and we did. I did two games of that. And I won one last one. Eli HP though I was really flipped. I do like HP. I have to say, I was really gutted. Because I was on for 2 and 0. Oh, but I needed one more turn to win. Definitely 100% win. Alright, just need to score out 100% When Yeah, the last Gambit run on r&d, he was accessing two cards, and the only way he could win is both of them to be agendas, or to get my 153 agenda. And he got my one 20 cards left. He got my 153 agenda in that and I was acting like Yeah, well done. I wasn't solely I was like, Oh, that was that was lucky. Yeah.

JP: 21:57

You can take him anytime. Yeah.

Kerley: 22:00

But yeah, and then I played as a runner, I played as Krim. I normally, I always used to play shapers. But this time, I don't know why I'd made a Krim deck. And yeah, it's really good fun. So some of that resource cards and getting them money is always a little bit better than most other factions, or that commonly. Yeah, and the character was really good. And I forget what the resources are not the resource Exactly. But what allows you to bring in stuff from other factions as well.

JP: 22:27

Influence

Kerley: 22:28

Thank you, because that was quite high with that character, and it managed to get everything I wanted into the deck. So I was able to take two types of foreign icebreakers, which is always really good, because the one thing that the Crim struggle for is decent icebreakers. So, I was able to get in one from shapers and the other one from the anarchs. Yeah, so that really improved the deck really, really happy with it. And yeah, I won that one as well, which was really nice.

JP: 22:54

Nice.

Kerley: 22:55

But yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it. And we're going to do another one soon. Hopefully. We're also looking at doing I don't know if you've ever seen it, but jinteki not only is it a faction of Corp is also a website. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Marcus lives quite a few miles away in Honiton, which is about 40 minutes drive something like that. Yeah, if we really get into it we can just plug our decks integer and tacky and free you know from my previous uses of it it plays really well so yeah, might be looking at doing that over discord or something soon. That's good. Yeah, how about you young Dan?

Dan Apsey: 23:31

Other than ploughing lots of hours into Starfield

JP: 23:36

How many?

Dan Apsey: 23:37

30 so far yeah, and I felt like I've barely scratched the surface on that

JP: 23:43

have you not been doing like testing the physics engines because I saw the videos I see

Dan Apsey: 23:47

Yeah, I've seen like yeah, let's put a bunch of potatoes into a cockpit and watching them all like Fall out but follow up perfectly.

Davey: 23:55

Have you seen the stealth run? Metal Gear Solid or something where you just kind of run through and there's the visible and stuff sealthing everyone and using a pistol. I've seen that but I was like what Starfield game is this guy

Kerley: 24:10

right? Yeah, I pretty much do anything you want. I started playing it, but I haven't actually properly need

Davey: 24:16

to get sunk into it.

Dan Apsey: 24:18

Yeah, it takes it takes a few hours. But once you get there, it's

Kerley: 24:22

it's quite nice because I got it on Game Pass. Yeah.

JP: 24:31

It's the way I'm a video games. I go for sure. In the like 10 hours max games, losing

Dan Apsey: 24:38

my taste with video games have just changed so much. board gaming becomes more more kind of stronger. And for me when it comes to the hobbies I have, and it just kind of took over. Have I got 10 for video games not really. So people can do that because it's more than just just more fun but

Davey: 24:56

more interaction and the table isn't

Dan Apsey: 24:58

as much as much more fun to do and me and my wife Vicki we played a few games a tapestry of late which is great fun. She She beat me last night. She hasn't beat me for like months.

Kerley: 25:14

But how did she get on in Tapestry?

JP: 25:18

welcome to the podcast.

Dan Apsey: 25:19

If you're listening Vicki love you. The safe word is Oklahoma. No, no it was it was great she she thing is with the tapestry and we're not gonna go into it too much now but we tapestry you've got to have a decent set of cards and civ to go with each other. And if you have got one then chances are you're going to end up in for a good run. But if that doesn't really kind of like synergize together then your gamer will tank and that's my excuse.

Davey: 25:44

Yeah, why do you think there needs to be like a mulligan or something where you can be like, right I'm taking my veto I'm gonna ditch this and yeah, okay, some of the most common sight that together then

Kerley: 25:55

I know what you're saying but I kind of quite like the challenge of going through the ones that are a little bit more difficult whether

Dan Apsey: 26:02

it's those cards that you get where it goes if this condition is met, get this amazing thing or game a resource. Yeah, and then there's like this how many cards that are in there that are like that and if you get a handle those tapestry cards you've had it. because nothing if nothing collates together with the civ or with the strategy that you're trying to do then you're gonna go in for a bad run but most of the time if I'm playing if I've played I've played play a lot of tapestry but I've probably in every five games one goes like that but the rest of them are pretty pretty good and that's that's that's praise to the game that really because there's a lot going on there's a lot of options to choose from and if there's only one out of five that tanks that way then that's pretty good going I think they've stopped making stuff for tapestry now which was disappointing Yeah, I'd love I would have loved if they'd gone down a kind of like a spiritual kind of road and they had like a spiritual track of adding a religion track probably would have been a bit too risky for

Davey: 26:59

could have made a bridge over the book and you they you slowly Well,

Kerley: 27:02

yeah.

Dan Apsey: 27:04

But he probably wouldn't have you know, the same kind of production is like chip theory games.

Davey: 27:10

Marble, they crowd raw

Dan Apsey: 27:14

Faux Marble

JP: 27:16

prize chip, they didn't actually create a fully marbleized stadium seating for hot play. And it is plastic with you know, hi, I want to see this. I'm not seeing it. I'll show you after. And the stupid six

Davey: 27:29

we'll put a photo of it and socials as well. So everyone can marvel at JPS stadium.

JP: 27:34

Yeah, we're gonna play in there. So I'll just take a photo of myself and carry on.

Dan Apsey: 27:40

ah yeah tapestry quite a few bit few games a tapestry and Starfield

JP: 27:47

Have you played with tapestry? Have you played the latest expansion? Yes,

Dan Apsey: 27:50

yeah. It doesn't make much of a difference. If you're mixing absolutely everything together. If you're putting in all the tapestry cards from every because I've got I've got everything. So if you're having it all together, then you don't because they've added charms. Now on to the cards were there on the left hand side of the cards, and if you play them against other tapestries, then you get more bonuses. But there's so few of those cards that are now in a massive chunky deck that is not often that you get to see them, which is a real shame. Also, you've also got that other card that kind of fits on at the end of income, step five, where you can add other resources to that card. But again, unfortunately, it doesn't come out as often as you'd like to so it's there. But the game doesn't really utilise it if you're mixing everything in together, because the last game I played I played with the genies as the civ. And it was it played very differently where your opponents, you if you had to randomly select the opponent, and they would then choose one reward from your civ mat. And then you would get that reward and then another one to the left, or to the right of it, that's all very good if you're playing a game with three, four or five players, but if you're playing two, which mean the wife did, then you're always gonna get the same person. And chances are, they're always going to get the same reward because it's the one they're going for. And then that kind of locks you in then to the two resources to the left or to the right of it. So you're kind of getting the same thing, sort of trying to build up kind of an engine or adapt your play based on that it can be difficult. But still, it's still very good.

Kerley: 29:22

Yeah, still good fun. leads us on nicely into the main section of the game. So. Right, so on to the main section of the pod, which is going to be titled civilizations beyond the sword. Alright, so really what we're talking about is civilization games. And I don't mean the computer games, although we'll probably reference them at some point. We're talking about games that have a civilization theme. Now, the first thing I want to do and I do this with almost all of the ones that I've played so far is kind of define it. So what do we mean by civilization? And because I have to think about it in this one out of all of the three pods I've been first player on I struggled with the most, but I've come to some conclusions and I want to discuss that a little bit. So I feel like the feeling of progressing is an important Part of it the feeling of almost going through time, which I've never really thought about before. But there are a few games that hit all the other bars that I don't think All civ games that yeah,

Davey: 30:29

there's a quintessential piece actually the time progression.

Kerley: 30:33

Yeah. Now, it doesn't have to have this. But this was an interesting part. There are a lot of civilization games that are almost 4X games. And there's a lot of 4X games that a lot of people would say, are civilization games. But for me, there's the focus on the texts and all that kind of stuff and everything else. That's an important part of it. But for me, it's expand exploit explorer, but with a much less emphasis on the Exterminate. That for me is a safe game. So you can still do it. But that exterminate part of the four acts is not as prevalent or as maybe it needs to be there. It does. It depends on what it is if it's a 4x. Yes,

JP: 31:14

yes. Yeah, it was via three. Excellent. Yeah, well, exactly. Yeah.

Kerley: 31:18

As an example, for those of you I'm guessing you have some interest in in the subject if you're listening to this pod. If you don't, I'm sorry, yes. This might not be for you this one. But we've got for example, and we'll go through in a minute, we've got obviously the standard, what's your favourite ones, but civilization the two that I know of, and I know there's a few. But civilization, new dawn with terra incognita. And the more original Sid Meier's Civilization from 2010. Those are both, you know, like, say expand exploit. But with with a really, you never really eliminate anyone. If you do eliminate people then actually the game's over and you win. Because it's a condition. Exactly. It's a win condition. So it's really focused on that type, you know. So that for me, is kind of what a definition of a civilization game is. And I'm gonna go a little bit further with that in a minute as to why I think for example, ti4 while I'm preparing for is not a civilization. Yeah, same with the Eclipse, although, you know, so I think having that identity as well was a big one for me, like, for example, the Roman Empire, the Mayan empire, you know, and the different types and even fantasy type ones as well as an important part of it

Davey: 32:28

the I agree on a lot of those aspects. But I think the biggest one is the through time because through the ages I would actually classed as a civilization game player has no board has no board that you sit in take pieces, you don't have like, an area control. But you have you go through these ages, you you progress, and while you progressing, technology progresses with you, you are a civilization, you know, advancing through through different eras. And I think that is amazing.

Kerley: 33:01

Yeah, but that's the point. I wasn't saying that. Because I totally agree, by the way that has 100%. If it's a 4x game, then it can also be yes, but it doesn't have to be a four to qualify as a Yeah, is a 4x game that you might qualify as a chef it would have to be on the exterminate on the lower end. Yeah. So for an example with that one and Dan, that might be a good one to chat with you about tapestry. Yeah, for me, it's a civilization game. Yeah, but it doesn't have to it's on a map. It doesn't have that side of it. So

Dan Apsey: 33:33

it's yeah, it's a tapestry is a civilization game. But it's the most uncivilisation game out there. Yeah. So you know, the theme is there.

Davey: 33:44

It's you go through the ages, ages, but

Dan Apsey: 33:47

it's an odd one, because some people might come across tapestry and go, this theme feels pasted on. Yeah, but but it's not because of the way that you you're building a tapestry in front of you. But going through, as you said, going through the ages, you started with maker of fire. And you're the tapestry cards that you're laying down is laying down the foundations of a civilization going through the ages kind of reminds me of instead, we're going to mention civ six, when you do I had never remember what the what it is that you do when you do like a defining moment. When you're playing single players, or your Eureka or something like that, where it comes up with that big back scroll, it shows you what that's what your civilization has done. And and that reminds me of tapestry. And as you're laying down your cards, and you're kind of like you're laying down history with your civilization. But the way that the game works mechanically doesn't play does not like a civilization game at all. And you touched on about ti four about saying that ti four is not a civilization game. It is not a civilization. For me, in my opinion, what makes it not a civilization game

Davey: 34:51

is because you've gone through the ages. You're there

Dan Apsey: 34:54

now you're now in an era of time, which humanity does not know. Not millennia. Know. You're taking away the civilization aspect and all you hitting it with a civ. Yeah,

Kerley: 35:07

but the thing is, what was interesting is that when I really thought about it on a quite shallow level, what is a civilization game? It ticked all the boxes, because it had the four x element, which I thought was at least part of some of them, I had that part of it. It had the individual civilizations if you want to say, you know, they all unique and all that kind of stuff. It's got a tech tree, which for me is one of the defining points of it. In a way of course, you know, you go through that, you know, getting all the different tags, but it wasn't an I was trying to look into well, why don't I feel that way?

JP: 35:40

Is it more of a theme? theme over mechanics?

Kerley: 35:43

I think so can the question is then can you have a civilization sci fi game, then I think, for me, I

Davey: 35:49

would have started a star you have to at the civilization is is watching. Then your your sciv, sieve progress through time. It's you're basically starting with nothing. You're starting at the very core. And then you're watching this Yeah, go make a fire and you're watching that progress. And for me, that's the civilization get your you are watching yourself expand and progress as a civilization rather than you start off and you have everything and off you go.

Dan Apsey: 36:17

But there is an element to that. Because you're saying that you have everything but in ti4. You don't. Or you do. True, you definitely have to have a little bit yeah, not a lot. Then your growing argument is you're growing like like a civ would but

Davey: 36:35

you've already got to that point where you're then thinking about expansion rather than actually kind of growing as I said,

JP: 36:41

mechanics, aren't they? So yeah, 4x mechanics, as you as you said, they can be applied to to a variety of themes. Ti I agree with you, Davey, that you've reached a point in time, where, you know, this, this sector space is up for grabs, and someone needs to rule the universe, right? And okay, that game might thematically take place over 50 years. But it's just 50 years. I said games take over, you know,

Davey: 37:04

hold on a minute. Yeah, 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of years.

Kerley: 37:09

I think I'm thinking about it. It's like the big thing for me is you don't really develop in ti 4d. You know, for example, in civilization when we're playing the 2010 version, you like you have a city you build more cities with settlers and you're building on those CC building mines are building, you know, courthouses, you're building all these different buildings for your city to be able to do more things. tech trees, engine? Engine building? Yeah, way. Yeah. But you don't really get that. So development is far more of a key part of it than Yeah,

Davey: 37:38

I think so. Because even with the computer game of civilization, when you think about the war side of it, you probably didn't do that often. And you don't do a big part of when you're playing these original civilization games is the development side of it, you're building up to getting better tech, you're then expanding your politics, you're then that's the fun bit is the engine bit and that's all just one more 10 this, let's stick it out there, then two days have gone by our skill playing civ.

JP: 38:07

Just a PC game.

Dan Apsey: 38:09

If I do this option, what other options does it give me and grant me going forward? That is the fun that is like, well, if I work towards that, then it's going to give me a whole plethora of different on that kind of works

Davey: 38:20

with the whole expansion of a civilization within technology. And the fact that oh, this new thing has been invented, say GPS, or that things have been invented. Look at how this now expands into every bit of our culture into our world. And then it kind of grows as a tree. So I think that is the core part of a civilization game. Yeah,

Kerley: 38:41

definitely. Yeah, completely agree with all that I just thought was an interesting point. It's not it's not it is easily defined. No,

JP: 38:47

when you sit and think about like, as you explained at the beginning, I was thinking shit, what is it? So I really thought about it. It's the feeling I get. Yeah, it's not a thing I can easily just

Davey: 38:59

playing cards, and suddenly, it's almost like a civ game. Yeah, I said exactly. Builder. Like did

Kerley: 39:04

I did look on BGG as to what their definition of civilization game was an interesting there was some good blurb in there. And most of it was progression through time and all that kind of stuff, some really good little tidbits. But actually, the games they listed on the civilization were quite surprising. So for example, ti four was there. and Eclipse was there. And an interesting one, and I don't know if I disagree with it, necessarily, but seven wonders was on there. That's one

Dan Apsey: 39:30

for theme more than anything else,

Kerley: 39:31

you get a progression through time, and it's one of those spaces don't

JP: 39:35

really know, what's the difference between like the age three cards and age one? thematically I'm trying to like even now having played several wonders,

Davey: 39:43

time. Yeah, you do get very more condensed kind of error isn't like, Oh, there's one timeline. And because it slowly gets a little bit more advanced or you've built papaya, it feels like the

Kerley: 39:56

ages are like 20 years.

Dan Apsey: 39:58

But then why does that make it a civilization game because a lot of board games will end up doing that anyway. It's like what I start off and all the things I have a very basic and then I get more improved or better things going on later. Does that make it a civ game? Not sure if it does unless you convey the theme.

JP: 40:15

It's interesting.

Kerley: 40:16

So wanna similar note and this might not add very much to what we've already discussed or it might be a really quick one but what is it you like most about civilization games? Why are you here basically doing a civilization game episode? What was it about them that makes you like them?

JP: 40:28

I think for me that we probably talked about it is that progression it's the starting with absolutely nothing and then going right look at all the avenues I can go down.

Kerley: 40:38

Yeah, well, that was one of the things I was gonna say for the last bit is actually the multiple ways to victory of you don't even have to be military at all. No tech, you know, an economic

Dan Apsey: 40:49

I've already done this three times already. Which way am I gonna go this time? Yeah,

JP: 40:53

I'm talking about you know, the board game experiences. It's, it's the same thing as I love games that basically as you start going, off you go, and it's okay, I'm gonna pull this you know, lever, I'm gonna push that button, I'm gonna go down that path and do that. And you know, me, I don't really strategize that long. Fire head, are kind of like, just weave my own path. But I find that bit fun. So going back to, you know, civ 2010, the board game. Every game at that it's always felt different obviously, with the civs that you pick from the start with your ability but the start tech tree trees down this road building around and then the do that and then I'm going to do this and actually, that was shit I've got tanks. Brilliant. Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 41:36

That tech not played in so long. And it is I got rid of my copy years back. I wish I didn't because yeah, I know. Yeah, we just play again.

Kerley: 41:45

it was one of them that you need the expansions for. So I invested in it, but it wasn't kind of do you have both? I have.

JP: 41:58

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get that feeling and tapestry like when I start tapestry. And you're that maker of fire. And it's you know, you've got your tracks. It's the same principles. I'm going to go on exploration I'm going to do military I'm going to do science I'm going to do technology and it's just

Davey: 42:12

I like it when is that not one wind condition as well with a lot of Civ games where they do have a lot of different win conditions of trade as you said economic or research or miniature militaristic boys like I mean, when I played the computer games have always liked going down Persia versus a five or Persia and then doing like all the trade and winning throughout via economics. It's always fun winning that way.

Kerley: 42:38

And by the way, for those of you notice a little bit of an Easter egg, the name of the pod episode, civilizations beyond the sword is a it's a nod to the expansion of civilization for my favourites. So it's yeah, we knew that far beyond the sword. Yeah. The first one. Got me.

JP: 42:59

404. Yeah, the square grid.

Kerley: 43:01

Yeah. square grid one. Yeah. So that was my nod. Because I love that game. So yeah, so So for me, it's that feeling of progression, same as you, JP, but also, and this is going to be a little bit Marmite, for some people is the asymmetry. I know you guys mentioned the kind of doing what you want, but also the fact that the civilizations are slightly different. Yeah, just just pushes you in a slightly different direction every time you know, and yeah, I really liked that side of it, but not everyone would, because asymmetry games are kind of one of them, but it's a little bit more like it gives

Davey: 43:34

replayability if anything, there are a lot of time I find because you can do have the exact same strategy, but it wouldn't work with one civ but it'll work with another and that means you have to you have to devise a new plan. You can't just do the same thing every time and for me that's that's interesting. Some people don't like that side of things and they prefer to have a set this is how I need to play because this guy Yeah, yeah, but having challenges for you then having to pivot and change you know what happens then what I'm using tap and

Dan Apsey: 44:12

tap into just been something else these days.

JP: 44:16

I don't know I have no idea. Now I don't

Kerley: 44:19

get but I do also agree about the tech trees as well. Absolutely love and I would say tech tree when I say tech trees I don't always mean that there's a tech card go through that because the civilization to 2010 version and does a great method of doing that with a pyramid and it really does feel effective. But also the the civilization New Dawn does a weird kind of card upgrade mechanic. So it's not always the same. But I've really enjoyed both different types really. So yeah, technology is one of them. It's nice to you, like go for it. Yeah, and I'll say it just quite satisfing. And then go Yeah, use this more powerful version to you know, beat up, Davey

Davey: 44:56

or

Kerley: 44:56

know, whatever the case will be that day will

Davey: 44:58

be to beat up davey Yes, we should be. Like these games

JP: 45:03

same. And last time we played 2010 I think you know, him?

Kerley: 45:06

Yeah, I think I did. Yeah,

Davey: 45:08

I still I still think I did alright and I

Kerley: 45:11

the new kids, boy. One of you three so

Davey: 45:15

it was another six He said laughing was actually not too bad just shrugged it off

Kerley: 45:22

the flesh damaging it was it was just fun funny.

Davey: 45:26

Yeah, you always get the nuke

Kerley: 45:30

over that one time where I did get the nuke and the new nicked it anyway was actually gutting. Nevermind,

Dan Apsey: 45:40

I want to play it again. Yeah.

Kerley: 45:42

Anytime, anytime you like to please. So on again a very similar note so we won't spend much time just gonna go around the room. What's your favourite one? So Dan starts off what's your favourite Civ game?

Dan Apsey: 45:52

It's probably a toss up between three tapestry I love but but it lets itself down where it can feel a little pasted on because like you go up a track and go, I've now you know, learned warfare or I've now built this building, but I don't feel like I've armed to the teeth. You know, it feels a little bit like that. But it is still fantastic. And I like to play it. And it's it's not a civ game that takes six to eight hours. No, which is great. And I love that about the games that you can play in a couple of hours. And it's done. Fantastic. But I also love, I haven't played it a while because it isn't it is a mammoth. And that's mega civ, mega civilization, which was made by 999 Games. It came out a few years ago and it came out in a massive wooden chest. The reason why it comes in a massive wooden chest is because the mega civilization which was based on the the original, not Avalon Hill game? was Avalon Hill who made the original was yeah, it made the original civilization but it's on a much grander scale. So it can play between five and 18 players. And the board can take up amazing it's massive the board is absolutely massive.

Davey: 47:07

It's got those little unit pushers and just push stuff around almost lightning round around it is pushing your units.

Dan Apsey: 47:13

It's almost like like almost like war machine but not in a circle board. It's more of a longer board and the world on it. Yeah, pretty much yeah, I played it was 17 players. And I had to grab me pa from the garage because I'm I'm a singer so I brought brought me music gear so that people could hear me across the other side of the room. And to try and manage 17 people, you need to prepare yourself this takes months of preparation to get this nailed. But we did it and we have fun, but the game is actually really really simple, it's you having a couple of units and if you have a couple of units in one territory, at the end of the round, they double so they become four and then and then you can then spread further but then as soon as you could enhabit it with somebody else but have more more units than your opponent and you're over the population limit then a war will start and then this is very similar to voidfall with the deterministic cam style of 1 v 1 that kind of thing and it's done. But also you have calamity cards and resources but with the resources there's there's like there's like 24 resources or more and you're there to your there's a there's a phase where all 18 players if you're playing with the full Play account are trading resources running

JP: 48:37

around our table

Dan Apsey: 48:39

so you go around the whole table and said well do you want this I want this but also you're trading calamities so you want oh I've got I've got three papaya and and and and one sugar. Oh great. That's great. I bought a few gold I bought this and you swap it and then it has given you a calamity and they've lied to you

JP: 48:58

like locusts Exactly. Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 49:00

no, I have the plague and then you know it hinders you for the next turn. But you also have technologies as well and you have called the AST which is a succession table where you're all going up based on points of the game is nuts that there's massive made by a guy called Flow de Haan who made the original Mega civ and then they split the game into two with called Eastern empires and Western empires. Yeah, absolutely put on Kickstarter. So you can you can get it now you can get Eastern and Western empires but you can't get mega civ anymore because massively our print has been out for a while. But if you've got the stomach for a 15 hour game we can go Yeah, then then then go for it. But it is the tall ask. But it is very

JP: 49:46

big down for it. But the table

Kerley: 49:48

nightmare. Yeah, I never buy that. Yeah. What's your favourite mate?

Davey: 49:55

I think I'm gonna be a cop out and think about this hard. I think it's just 2010 to start tech tree. This gets me every time. I love tech tree but it is it is a game. We've tried to play it in an evening and it's probably an afternoon game. It

Kerley: 50:10

just doesn't work. It's time but it's definitely not a school night game.

Davey: 50:16

Friday night. was fine, but the time I tried to do like a Wednesday night, we were like, we're just gonna end this now. This is just gonna end. No one's winning anytime soon. But yeah,

JP: 50:26

the win condition is staying awake. Yeah. You have commitments?

Davey: 50:30

Yeah, pretty much was. I think that's the only problem with it is to be an afternoon. So

Kerley: 50:37

thanks for that davey. JP?.

JP: 50:39

Yeah, I mean, I've got a lot of love for civ 2010. But I think the length of it is not a downside because it's supposed to be a lengthy game and but it does exclude it. Yeah, like I have to be also really kind of asked to play it. If that makes you have to be in the mood to go right. I'm in this for the long haul. Yeah. So for me, I quite like civ new dawn with the expansion because it's a lighter implementation, it plays nothing like it. And it feels absolutely kind of different, but still has the civ themes. And obviously did the card power action row mechanic before I'll overdid it even against the credit I think for a lot of it. But civ new Dawn did it first. And I think you said it earlier with the the tech tree upgrading those cards and just making yourself better and better and better. I've always enjoyed civ New Dawn. Yes. Just cool.

Davey: 51:39

For me, it's just something missing from it. Yes. i What I want is a better tech tree that goes along with the cards that you put down. If that tech tree was better, I'd be all in. I'll be like, yes, but the tech tree has always I've upgraded this. And

JP: 51:54

it's not as good as 2010s. Tech Tree. No, get me wrong. Fairly good.

Davey: 51:58

But it's solid tech tree. Yeah,

JP: 52:00

I just think just because you can play it, you get two hours in. Right? Cool. I've progressed I've got nothing. And now we're there. And we've expanded and we've done all those things on we're on this one. I think it would hit the table more. And I haven't had a bad game of it yet. No.

Kerley: 52:15

I love civilization new dawn. I would say I agree with Davey, not quite for the same reasons. But I think the cards are the right choice. I don't want to take tree don't need a tech tree as of our way of saying it. Yeah. But I would say the upgrades of the cars need to be more significant. Yeah. Because sometimes it can feel like well, I could upgrade that one from level one to level three. And actually, it's basically saying, you know, doesn't really benefit expand

Davey: 52:37

your one so that the one where you expand this like are you can expand and it's just like a couple extra spaces or you get an extra an extra token down anything if the SEC doesn't really work with that you're like, doesn't really do much. Some of

Kerley: 52:50

them are really impactful, but some of them really are. Yeah, so that's one thing I would probably say needs a little bit of a look at. But the actual way the game worth like JP was saying is my favourite. It's quick. The like the expanding cultural influence is grey and the way the districts kind of interact and give you loads more. That was a terra incognita edition. Just makes it I won't allow that expansion. No, I wouldn't do that. But yeah, so the way that the game comes together is it probably is my favourite. But I'm gonna add in a little bit, just keep it different. I would probably go with you JP on this one. But just make it a bit different honourable mention to mosaic, which I appreciate is a little bit a little bit. A little bit more Marmite for people because you weren't a big fan GP.

Davey: 53:38

I

JP: 53:39

didn't dislike it. I just thought it was okay. Yeah, I did. It didn't go. I didn't get the wow factor for when I played I was like, so Right.

Kerley: 53:46

So for me, it really scratches the biggest itch when it comes to engine building. That's what I loved about it. It really felt like an engine builder rather than a yeah. I mean, I don't even know is it a civ game, I would say is a civ game. But it's more of an engine building type game for me.

Davey: 54:00

Yeah, it's kind of a got a tableau side of things where you kind of build Yeah, for the cards. And it does have this massive feel to it. Definitely. I'd say it is yeah, technologies progress

JP: 54:11

through a just today. Yeah, better and better. Yeah, it goes on.

Kerley: 54:14

And you know, it's got some interesting things. I've taken like the modern tag system from different games. And you know, it, I really enjoyed it totally different type of Civ game, but I really enjoyed it. But again,

Davey: 54:26

I think I need to play again. Yes, the scoring was a bit different because it was in between ages. And that kind of threw us off. Like threw me off a little I should say, and we understood it was coming, but I still understand how it works. And then Oh, actually, those bits are really powerful. And when you play a game, as long as you remember that it'd be like, Oh, okay, only one building here.

JP: 54:46

I can't tell you why I didn't

Kerley: 54:48

love it. Yeah, just give it one more. Go. Maybe I'll play again.

JP: 54:55

I'll play again. I'll just Yeah, still. Wow.

Kerley: 54:57

I thought you would really like it. I did. Yeah. So it was a bit you know, but I couldn't even tell you why. But on the upside with my deck I feel like the one thing it has done is it's made civilization in general more accessible. I think this one has been really like a really appreciate it by people who wouldn't normally play that type of game. I don't really really even though why whether it was the publicity or whatever the case, but I know that a lot more people that I wouldn't expect by have bought it, you know. So that's interesting thought I thought he was going to say Europa Universalis as your favourite? No, what? Because it was so massively complicated that I never ever want to play again. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I mean, obviously I will say, Guys, when we have another kind of at the end of that question. I will say that obviously what we believe a civilization games is what we're talking about there are a bunch of ones like campaigny type games that I don't you know, it doesn't really click for me it's not well, I'm like come all the different campaigns for Africa and all that. You could argue that's all part of the colonial kind of civilization type of thing. But for us, it's that progression through time that makes it a little bit different. So if you're sat there thing is always going to be like

JP: 56:09

this. I apologise. But yeah, then you get war games. So

Kerley: 56:13

I felt like that was more or less

JP: 56:16

war games. But hey, that's just our opinions, man.

Kerley: 56:19

So this leads me on to and I'm gonna answer this one first, because you kind of have answered it. So I'm gonna go for it. What's your least favourite civilization on why? So my least favourite of mine through the ages? And I love the game. I think it's a really good game, but too long between turns for sure. That's my worst thing about Yeah. So it's just too long. Between times you get bored in between and you know, sometimes that can make you get irritated, irritated at each other. You know, so, you know, too long between turns. Yeah, it's true. So yeah, so free the ages is going to be my one. But I'm gonna leave it at that, because it's still really good game. That's a really good

Davey: 56:54

game, but it's an old school design ways. Basically, you go off and do all these things. And then someone else is sitting there that's like, oh, make the team there's no interaction.

Kerley: 57:04

No, yeah, that's it. Yeah,

Davey: 57:06

I do understand that.

Kerley: 57:07

So what what about you, Davey? Worse civilization game? Or just a mechanic maybe that you don't get on with?

Davey: 57:14

Yeah, so I think I've mentioned it now as well, because our civilization games and played a lot. But I and the worst mechanic is, sometimes when you've got too much to do on your turn, and it is going to be take too long. I love monumental, but no one wants to play it or get it to the table because of the length of time between turns. I think that is it. Whereas they try and cram too much in I think it's like, or civilization game, you need to be able to do this, which is your building. And then you're also going to tech, which then given you this, and it's cool, and I liked it and things like that. But if it starts taking too long, and no one else has it has a horse in the race, then other people aren't gonna be interested. Everyone's gonna lose focus around the table.

Kerley: 57:59

Yeah, I think that's fair. Any thoughts Dan?

Dan Apsey: 58:01

I'm quite strict on what I like about a civ game. And I'm not overly a big fan of games that at face value look like a civ game and then you play them and it doesn't really play much like it. And the one I'm the one that sticks out to me the most is Imperial settlers. Okay, no, no

JP: 58:22

played them.

Dan Apsey: 58:23

By Portal games. Now don't get me wrong. The game is okay. But it's an evolution of is it the 50/51st state? The post post apocalyptic one? Yeah. So it's an evolution of that. So at face value, you know, you're playing as Egyptians or you're playing as the Incas or that kind of thing. And you think this could be something civ related? And so you think okay, maybe I'm going through the ages here and you're you're building buildings, you're building up a tableau of cards. And I think you can possibly attack other opponents as well. It's been quite a while since I've played it but at face value think yeah, this this will probably scratch a smaller itch when it comes to civilization games. That probably wouldn't take you know, 5678 hours to play. But it was completely nothing like that. And it was more it was more engine building and it was just you know, this the theme was there. Great. This could be civ. But wait, it's not. And it was bit of a disappointment for me in my opinion. But I know that it has got a lot of love and it also has got a couple of weeks of standalone expansions to the game as well. But it wasn't for me.

Kerley: 59:28

Yeah, fair enough. Thank you made Jpizzle?

JP: 59:31

yeah, I'm furiously LOOKING AT CIV Games Yeah, because I'm struggling with this.

Kerley: 59:38

Fair enough. Any mechanic that turns you off that Yeah,

JP: 59:41

I can't think of a game I mean, yeah, you mentioned through the ages but I kind of wonder I kind of enjoy it I mean several wonders I don't personally classes a civ game and I don't known

Kerley: 59:51

but it's one of them

Davey: 59:52

you like 7 Wonders though

JP: 59:55

so I can't really say that. And for me to say mosaic is quite harsh on mosaic, because I don't hate it so I really struggling with this.

Kerley: 1:00:04

Maybe you just don't dislike any civ games

JP: 1:00:06

like any that kind of come to mind.

Dan Apsey: 1:00:10

Have you tried and roll for the ages? So it's a roll & write version of through the ages and It feels so unsettled like it's unreal. Because you're just rolling a bunch of buttons

Kerley: 1:00:22

and bought it for me. There you go. That's

Davey: 1:00:25

JPS one

JP: 1:00:30

I can't answer it. No, it's odd for me. But and so normally but safe to say yeah, you stumped me

Davey: 1:00:39

write this down everyone.

Kerley: 1:00:42

JP had nothing to say no opinion. So that pretty much concludes our discussion about civilization style games. Yeah, some really interesting points guys. Really thanks a lot for that but moving on right now it's time for Would You Rather so guys, here's your question and I'm gonna answer this one first give you time to think about it. Who's going first?

Davey: 1:01:15

I was the first player in your house.

Kerley: 1:01:19

Alright, Dan, you're going first!. So Dan, would you rather be a rich Roman citizen or would you rather be broke in modern time in the UK

Dan Apsey: 1:01:29

in the UK?

Kerley: 1:01:30

In the UK

Dan Apsey: 1:01:31

cost of living?

JP: 1:01:32

Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 1:01:35

Now I don't know because if you go back then then you would have been rich powerful and then you know in Roman times you said Yeah, yeah, you could have gone to you know, be it might end the Colosseum or something and then you know, end up doing thumbs up thumbs down and be a bit fun on it.

Davey: 1:01:51

Yeah, but lots of orgies, apparently. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 1:01:55

Is that like, in that like paper folding

Davey: 1:01:58

paper? Yes. Or Jama? Yes. Yeah, just the multiple of Yeah,

Dan Apsey: 1:02:03

I see. Yeah. I think that's what we're at night. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think those as well broke because like I could come around your guy's houses and play board games.

Kerley: 1:02:20

Okay. Oh, it's

Dan Apsey: 1:02:22

my first podcast. I gotta be nice to him. So

Kerley: 1:02:26

I was gonna say it doesn't bother to come around my house to play board games he just just demands that people go to him

Dan Apsey: 1:02:32

yeah

JP: 1:02:35

that is easier. Yeah.

Kerley: 1:02:38

JP doesn't seem to be bad to me everywhere I go.

JP: 1:02:45

Need me to shower if

Kerley: 1:02:48

anyone asks I've gone to work tonight.

Davey: 1:02:52

Sorry for me. JP is around the corner so I don't mind so really it's just me

JP: 1:02:56

yeah, you're the problem.

Kerley: 1:03:00

Anyway, anyway you're welcome. JP What do you think

JP: 1:03:05

I I think therefore you are because I'm so into Hoplo Marcus at the minute I'm going in the Roman era. Yeah, because I want to wear like a big toga

Dan Apsey: 1:03:17

the Roman rich guy

JP: 1:03:20

just swirling around Senator jeepers Yes, Patrick Hus Yeah. Hey, JP you know I don't want to be the Empress. I'll get stabbed or something. Well, this is you know, it gets a bit cut.

Davey: 1:03:30

Even if you're rich you're living that long anyway, though. This is the thing.

JP: 1:03:36

I already have gout in the modern world, I suffer from gout right now. So I might as well

Davey: 1:03:43

have gout the rich brand disease

JP: 1:03:46

Yeah, in the cheese grapes and all of the food that all the you know the plebs have got for me.

Kerley: 1:03:52

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough.

JP: 1:03:54

Yeah. Gladiators fight in and yeah, I'll probably regret it in about 24 hours. Yeah,

Davey: 1:04:02

it probably wouldn't take that long because the smell was gonna be atrocious there's gonna be lots of things

Kerley: 1:04:10

when I think I'd definitely rather be broke in the modern society because when you look at what you wouldn't have like even lights at nighttime or like you know no heating no air conditioning you know there's a moment Yeah, yeah, well I suppose to a certain degree

JP: 1:04:30

irrigation banking they got

Dan Apsey: 1:04:33

Mackey's. I

Davey: 1:04:39

will just be interested in

Kerley: 1:04:40

what but yeah, so it's just a matter of you think about you know, simple stuff like toothpaste, just toothpaste, even existence anything no you use a porkupines arse and I'd be surprised if

JP: 1:04:54

I rescind my, my, my answer. I will. Because the average the average life expectancy isnt great. Yeah.

Kerley: 1:05:04

So you do well, in fact, we'd all be dead.

Davey: 1:05:08

I'm living in the Roman era. That's what it for me.

Dan Apsey: 1:05:17

So Oh 42 iand you're in your 41

Kerley: 1:05:19

the thing is the thing is is I don't know 41 You look about 50 So you know

JP: 1:05:30

welcome to the podcast

Dan Apsey: 1:05:31

I'm thirty seven

Kerley: 1:05:38

so we'd all be dead is the point even

Davey: 1:05:40

right? Yeah, I'd be dead by Yeah, so but I do still think I might actually live in the roman era just because it'd be a bit fun but fun

JP: 1:05:48

isn't it? Yeah, it was romantic.

Kerley: 1:05:52

To be fair if you're loaded you're probably gonna be

Davey: 1:05:54

live a little bit longer you're gonna have good food.

Kerley: 1:05:59

access to good health. Yes.

Davey: 1:06:02

You hit the right time. You've got some you've got some real good political decisions being made some good political like impacts going to be interesting.

JP: 1:06:13

I've really googled and I've put life expectancy of a noble in ancient Rome, right? That's not to live to 60 to 70 years why are we back in

Dan Apsey: 1:06:26

Arc Nova in

JP: 1:06:27

Rome there's Roma

Dan Apsey: 1:06:30

no I missed that. Yeah, it's

Kerley: 1:06:32

a real board games because games go back into the BC maybe you could start a board game company back then you know

Dan Apsey: 1:06:42

give it we talked about like we go in like we go and Doc Brown shit now we go into back in time we already have the knowledge of the of the of the of the past claim

Kerley: 1:06:51

we're taking this a little bit too I like

JP: 1:06:53

So how big is the time travel capsule

Kerley: 1:07:00

that's your initial thought you could take back anything that you like the equivalent of millions of flippin young adults have a board games and they just take a board game

Dan Apsey: 1:07:10

and start feel pleased because you know I'm really into that right now. Yes. So well, what can we plug in my xbox?

Davey: 1:07:20

you can get people to act like Starfield are in front of you. Oh, look, go left, go left. Go right. Oh, noble leader. This is so fun. So wise, I know. You saying being born in this time? Yeah, I

Kerley: 1:07:38

think so. Yeah. I think I think there's a sensible choice.

Davey: 1:07:43

Don't get me wrong. Mine's more about gross intrigue rather than anything else. Reality can be harsh. But I think the interesting

JP: 1:07:52

realities will probably like to visit Ancient Rome to see what it's like and go. No, thanks. Yeah,

Kerley: 1:07:58

I'll go. I'll go back, though. Plenty

Dan Apsey: 1:07:59

of a trial run first year. But that

Kerley: 1:08:02

is it. So moving on. And moving on to the penultimate term, where we're going to have a little bit of a chat about what we've got to look forward to. So JP, what have you got to look forward to?

JP: 1:08:19

Mine's very simple. Probably. You guys. I've been on holiday and you've enjoyed voidfalling? Oh, yes. Yeah. And Dan's basically stolen most of the gaming group. Haven't you Dan? voidfall and teaching you all the Voidfall. And so I'm, I've got some kind of tutorial games coming up in next week, actually,

Kerley: 1:08:39

isn't just, I guess playing the tutorial beforehand, kind of paying that price because you've probably played it a few times.

JP: 1:08:45

I've only played the tutorial once. Okay. Once on gaming rules, and then I played full games since then, I was kind of expecting to teach you a lot but Dan took the mantle in all fairness and got you guys up to speed quicker. No, it's good. So he's either have to do the tutorial 17 times.

Dan Apsey: 1:09:04

In that case, you're welcome yeah.

JP: 1:09:06

So hopefully, this is the only tutorial I need to run although I think we've got another one coming. And then yeah, good

Davey: 1:09:13

I love the game, but I don't think I could use a tutorial game. I didn't like how it it hit like stifled me so much. So when I taught someone I did it coop mode. Yeah. And I was able to help them. And I was picked up pretty quickly anyway. Yeah, it was okay, so the coop mode was pretty good.

JP: 1:09:31

I don't mind it. It's a quicker game. Anyway. So here's a quick it just helps people say I'm looking forward to that sweet, so more voidfall goodness.

Kerley: 1:09:39

Nice game, Davey?

Davey: 1:09:40

So I've been hard at work building the office which is also going to be part games room. Nice which is going to be, putting up a little pop down table from the wall. So fall down and then be able to fit everyone into play games around mine finally, which be nice. Yeah. So I've got a host so that's why I'm looking forward to really because then I can start putting in more voidfall. Gaia project for games that you want a

JP: 1:10:09

barrage?

Davey: 1:10:09

Yeah, because barrage is hitting top five games as well. Oh, the more I play the game and I love it. It's just Oh,

JP: 1:10:19

did you back the Kickstarter?

Davey: 1:10:20

No, I kept looking at it. And I just bought voidfall

JP: 1:10:25

fair enough.

Davey: 1:10:27

Yeah. So the story of me getting voidfall is, it's quite I felt so bad for my poor cousin because she lives in Birmingham and the guy. I got it for about 200 pounds. So it's quite good price. But he didn't want to post it. So look, I'll send a courier around. No, no, no. So okay, my cousin lives kind of near me. I'll get her to pick up into complaint and go for it. I'm sorry. Okay, cool. So she was like, Yeah, that's fine. I'll go do that. And then she picked it up. And I would have is this Yes. This is the massive ballgame. I'd already paid for the delivery. She took it there. And they were like, we don't have a print off service. Even though it said on line it did. They can print the sticker off. And oh, it's got it. And it's meant to be wrapped. So better. She had to go out and wrap this pass or print it out and send it to me and it will come to me this will find so thank you, Kirsty. But yeah, I'm now going off to Birmingham to visit her because I felt so bad. But yeah, it's just nice to see family as well. But I've just oh my god, it ended up being and that's definitely

JP: 1:11:33

you owe her a takeaway.

Davey: 1:11:34

Yes. Yeah. Take her off shopping. But yeah. Thank you.

Dan Apsey: 1:11:40

Boy you got voidfall right? Yes, yes.

JP: 1:11:44

I agree that I own it.

Kerley: 1:11:45

Yeah. Like, just like, you know, I really love it. But I just don't feel the need, because you guys have all got copies on Yeah.

JP: 1:11:51

How's your Eclipse going?

Kerley: 1:11:53

So yeah, I've only you've got Eclipse. And my brother loves that game. And it's nice, because you can always make it to like my birthday and stuff. And I always want to play. It's just birthday.

Dan Apsey: 1:12:11

Birthday. And I missed it too.

JP: 1:12:15

I didn't want to go back.

Kerley: 1:12:16

Now. The point is that, you know, you always don't want to go to my birthdays. And Dan can never be bothered to come to my house. Full stop. I have to buy the game.

JP: 1:12:26

I only played I'm only playing

Kerley: 1:12:28

I know. But yeah, so yeah, I am actually genuinely I haven't opened it yet. But I'm looking forward to planning, which leads on very nicely to what I'm looking forward to. I'm just going to talk about my holiday. I will say an honourable mention. I've just pre ordered a couple of games. Oh, wait. Well, one of them's obvious that you suggested we'd have done now ark nova Marine worlds. Well, no. Yes. So I've just pre ordered that one. I've ordered although it is kind of brand new the last expeditions for lost ruins of Arnak.

Davey: 1:12:55

So I'm looking forward to we saw that UKGE Yeah, but anyway, I'll be

Kerley: 1:13:00

greedy because actually, that wasn't really what the ones I was talking about, but I'm getting on holiday. So similar to JP, I'm off to Florida. Tomorrow for two weeks. We fly Saturday morning, actually. And this is Thursday today, but we're off to the hotel tomorrow. Yeah, going to Disney Animal Kingdom staying in animal kingdom. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I'm looking forward to going anyway it's going to be really good fun. Time last time I was there I'm jealous. Yeah, I'm looking forward to going to the Star Wars bit the motions so you know what's gonna get the resistance? Yeah, absolutely fantastic after my one so I'm looking forward to that. I'm gonna get a lightsaber. Probably not. I got one. I love it but I mean, no offence to JP but it's a lot of money spent Oh, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Davey: 1:13:51

So he got out of the ring sword. Yep, I

Kerley: 1:13:53

love Lord of the Rings make a lot of really? Star Wars and the experience is amazing. But I definitely Lord of the Rings is my bag. So yeah,

JP: 1:14:02

I think that moment go around Galaxy's edge for me was when I was the most quiet Oh holiday I was just looking at oh my gosh I can't believe this is the detail the everything they've put in eight this is absolutely nuts.

Kerley: 1:14:18

Yeah, even blue or blue and green milk on it. Yeah, got the blue No, we

JP: 1:14:22

didn't do the milk but we we got like the kobolds which the kind of like the thermal detonators? Yeah. And got those some of those home as well because they're quite cool. But yes, I did go and buy a lightsaber. Yeah. Which was amazing.

Kerley: 1:14:38

Rob he really loved the thematics as well in the the avatar but in animal kingdom.

JP: 1:14:43

Yeah, the pandora are amazing.

Kerley: 1:14:45

Yeah, yeah. Loved it in there. Yes. Fantastic. So even though the restaurant was beautiful in the ad specific foods that were made up like Avatar

Dan Apsey: 1:14:52

they've asked us to now so you know, as I talked about, yeah,

JP: 1:14:56

sorry, but it's Florida. Welcome to Florida

Dan Apsey: 1:14:58

peace you want to go do you want to go to Weymouth for the night? Oh,

Davey: 1:15:01

yeah. I'm gonna hang out. Yeah, we can keep going good. We can get some

Dan Apsey: 1:15:06

wildlife I guarantee whether you'll be violated or not. That's fine. What happens on Ham Hill stays on Ham Hill.

Davey: 1:15:16

That's it. Everything stays on ham hill? Let's face it.

Kerley: 1:15:21

But yeah, so that's why I'm looking forward to going away for a couple of weeks. Just chillin out.

Davey: 1:15:25

Yeah, no, I need a holiday.

Dan Apsey: 1:15:28

I'm looking forward to two things more Starfield and I'm looking forward to Septima something's not long away now

JP: 1:15:39

a few weeks away ready for Halloween? I

Davey: 1:15:41

can I reckon Oh, timing. So I reckon

Dan Apsey: 1:15:44

Yeah, that won't be long back. He's

Kerley: 1:15:45

really up for Septima. Really?

Davey: 1:15:47

Just good. Yeah.

Dan Apsey: 1:15:51

Not read much so with mineclash I read the premise and I'll look at a little bit of the mechanics but I don't want to spoil it. I want to I want to enjoy it.

JP: 1:15:59

Yeah, maybe midway with a bit but it's not. It's not that like it's not their mind clash play. No, no, it's but it's

Kerley: 1:16:07

it's what game equivalent would you put a complexity was of theirs that they've done? No. Just generally. Ark Nova, TM?.

JP: 1:16:17

Yeah, yeah, kind of

Davey: 1:16:20

midway I always think about these midway euros. Yeah.

JP: 1:16:23

I'll be interested. So what Weight, it does get? I'm gonna it's probably on there already. But yeah, it's still enough crunch in it. And it's still in the 3.7. Yeah, three point. threes. I would have thought void for 4.5. No, no, no, it's not. It's not. And I think you might probably compare it to a mean even anachrony when its the base is I mean, it's still heavy, but I still have been it's still heavy.

Dan Apsey: 1:16:47

But I like the crunch. So bring on the crunch. Yeah.

JP: 1:16:50

But it's a nice game. There's one thing that we've all forgotten to mention that we're all looking forward to. Oh, yes. Which is Essen.

Dan Apsey: 1:16:58

Oh, yeah. We're looking forward. Yeah.

Kerley: 1:17:01

Sorry. Yeah. Well, that's the point is that collectively, right. We're all kind of looking forward to so on apart from Dan, who's not welcome.

JP: 1:17:08

Because he's just turn up for the podcast. So he has to go for his Initiation. Initiation. Yeah, unfortunately we haven't got time for initiation because we're going to Essen

Dan Apsey: 1:17:17

my ceremonial robes haven't arrived. Yeah.

Davey: 1:17:21

But I'm serious now. It's just it's just JPs roaming gear. That's all it is. Yeah.

JP: 1:17:27

But now on a serious note, we are very much looking forward to go and we've known nothing about Essen. No one's ever been in our gaming group. So we're just gonna go and explore it as as kind of punters right we're gonna go and just experience Essen for the first time

Kerley: 1:17:42

I'm gonna put something out controversial which you wouldn't expect from me I'm quite looking forward to the trip over where you bunch of yo fucking nutcases because it's like the idea of being trapped in a car going across the kind of European continent almost.

Dan Apsey: 1:17:57

We did this with the expo, you know, it was like it was singsong all the way but you're gonna have that for hours.

Kerley: 1:18:03

Yeah, this is why I'm a little bit nervous about saying it but I am quite looking forward to that but I'm also a little bit worried

Davey: 1:18:11

then we'll do the whole you know where you draw along the road and it's like I said the little mini waggon going down and then parents

JP: 1:18:20

Yeah, it's really good though because this episode gets released whilst driving over really Yeah, so as people are listening to this right now they're gonna think of you in the car going with cheesy bangers 2023 edition and I'm going oh my god kill me now because I think what I've said is the journey is about 8 or nine hours Yeah, door to door roughly we obviously you got the Channel Tunnel and the stops and stuff. And I think if everyone has a good hour and a half slot DJ and then they can kind of request what's a

Davey: 1:18:56

bar heavy Drum and Bass song be putting on every drum and bass was like

JP: 1:19:03

okay, it's not

Dan Apsey: 1:19:08

I'm done I've heard one too many thud thuds

JP: 1:19:13

that we're looking forward to. It's gonna be a laugh. It's gonna be good. It's always good to go over you boys. Yeah, and Becky? Yes, you get fun.

Dan Apsey: 1:19:20

I'll just wait here and I'm gonna hold the fort. I'm sure that I will get up to a few board game related shenanigans it

Kerley: 1:19:29

will wire away enjoy it more thinking about you being sad back in the UK.

Dan Apsey: 1:19:34

I aim to please

Kerley: 1:19:36

thanks mate Right guys. So this is my final episode of my three episodes stint.

JP: 1:19:43

Thanks, mate.

Kerley: 1:19:43

much appreciate it.

Dan Apsey: 1:19:45

slog yes

Kerley: 1:19:52

first one with and if your first episode

Davey: 1:19:57

because what you said then I was like, it sounds like it's been a bit of a

Dan Apsey: 1:20:00

civilization through the ages I've been through the ages!

Kerley: 1:20:06

I've been through all the ages with you pal, that's for sure. But anyway, so I'm going to be handing over to JP who's going to be the first player from the next three Episode so yeah, I've

JP: 1:20:18

taken a bit earlier than than planned but shedule laying around people's availability we're coming up to Christmas certain people have jobs where they're just absolutely rammed. So just thought kind of take the next kind of run and got some cool stuff coming some good, good conversations. And yeah, and then after that, we'll see what's happening.

Kerley: 1:20:39

Not asking you to say what it is make but if you've got an idea of your episodes,

JP: 1:20:42

yeah, I've got all locked and loaded but I'm not telling you a way to

Davey: 1:20:46

tease

JP: 1:20:50

now I'm really excited for them, I think. Yeah, and with

Kerley: 1:20:53

that has come to our final turn. We've wrapping up we're gonna count up all of our victory points. Thanks to everyone for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and review on your podcast player of choice and we ask you to share the podcast with at least one other person you think you would enjoy it. If you want to get in contact with the show or on our socials. You can email Facebook instant tik tok board game geek and threads now. We'll be back again in two weeks time with another episode till then, Whose turn is it?