Kerley: 0:34

Welcome to Whose turn is it anyway, podcast at all about our gaming group and of course board games. I'm Kerley, you're returning first player and I'm joined by a player's Tambo. Hello, Adrian. Hello and Jay Pizzle. Back again. To talk all about grudge matches, or head heads, one V ones. How's everyone doing today guys?

Tambo: 0:59

I'm okay, tired hot! Roasting today init.

Kerley: 1:02

Yes, absolutely roasted. It's never enough. 30 degrees. today.

JP: 1:05

We're having a bit of a heatwave in the UK, which means it's over 20 degrees. But now it's actually over 30 Isn't it nearly 30 To get to 30s?

Adrian: 1:14

I think it's a twenty eight today on the weather forecast.

JP: 1:16

Humidity is high though. It's

Adrian: 1:18

just it's Yeah,

Tambo: 1:19

I think it's been a lot hotter. If the sun was out today. It wasn't that was it? So

JP: 1:23

typical Brits moaning about the weather.

Tambo: 1:26

Yeah, so yeah, I'm okay. Just you know, working in the kitchen slowly co oking, lamb shanks may have been sheep slowly cooking

JP: 1:36

the lamb shank of the group. But yeah.

Kerley: 1:41

How about you Adrian?

Adrian: 1:42

Yeah, I'm good. It's been a busy week for me this week. I'll be honest, I think I've played five out of the last like eight days of games. And I've got today recording the podcast. And then I think in two days time, I've got another games day and then another games day after that or something. It's been Yeah, it's been busy. And then I've got like a week and a half gap pretty much. Yeah. Which I'll which would be nice. Yeah. That's, I've really enjoyed the games I've played. So yeah, it's been a good packed, but good sort of week and a bit.

Kerley: 2:12

Excellent. Jaypizzle?

JP: 2:13

So yeah, just transitioning from holiday mode to Normal mode really.

Kerley: 2:17

We've missed you mate.

JP: 2:18

Thanks is that you being serious?

Kerley: 2:22

I've missed the amount of board games that you tend. to bring with you.

JP: 2:25

You miss the gaming events? Yeah. So we get into the crux of it. Yeah. Has it been a bit sparse for the past few.

Kerley: 2:31

You know what, I've kind of treated it as a little bit of a mini break. Yeah, I have as well. Not. Not Not that I've played no board games, but there's definitely been a lot less time. A lot less in my calendar anyway. So it's been nice to play a few computer games. Nice. Becky. I started doing a little Lego model. Just little things. Yeah.

Adrian: 2:51

What are you doing?

Kerley: 2:52

I am doing Optimus Prime. Oh, nice. Yeah, I bought the Super Deluxe one. It was on sale in Zavvi and it's transforms and everything so yeah, me and Becky we're gonna do that together, which is quite nice.

JP: 3:04

nice. I just did a Star Lord helmet and that's not sexual that is. But yeah, I picked that up while I was away and I thought just give us a little mini one to do. I loved it.

Kerley: 3:17

I thought that was a nickname for your Junk.

JP: 3:20

So she calls it Yeah, no, no. I'll be impressed if she calls it starlord

Kerley: 3:24

Yeah, you take those compliment but yeah, so I'm pretty much the same as you guys been absolutely roasting at work but you know, as usual not too bad to be fair. Right. Glad you're well guys. So let's move on to the next section. Okay, then, guys. So let's talk about hex. What have you guys been up to? We've been playing anything that happened recently that you want to talk about, start us off Adrian, what have you been up to mate,

Adrian: 3:56

say lots of lots of games recently. But what I'd like to talk about in this section is the century series. So whether you have spice road, or the Gollum edition, and then a series of games that follow that they're basically exactly the same series, just one is sort of painterly, trading spices and the other is anime and gems is the difference between the two. But mechanically, they're identical. I happen to have the Gollum edition. So that's probably the terminology I will be using. So I played one, two and three separately, quite a long time ago. And I've sort of played them a lot since separately. And the third one is by far the weakest in my opinion. I know some people really like it, but personal opinion, is I think it's the weakest. It's the most simple, most bare bones to the point where I was considering selling it and I thought well, before I do that, they combine right so you can transform them, like Optimus Prime.

Kerley: 4:50

Nice segue cool back.

JP: 4:54

What about Starlord? No, no, no.

Adrian: 4:58

You can combine them so I thought well, okay, well let's try one of the combinations with the third game because that will decide whether I'll sell the third game or not probably. So combined the first one, which is the spice road or Gollum edition with the third one which is endless world or new world I think if your spice road and I combine those two together and I must say It was a great game and really stepped the two sort of systems up. So the standard, sort of a new endless world is a really simple worker placement where you get a bunch of workers, and you can go in a spot, and then you get to gems or you get to upgrade gems, or you get to buy golems. And if you want to go somewhere where someone's already been, you'd have to put one more than what's already there of theirs. And you can rest and take everything back into your hand. And there's a bit of sort of set collection. And certain golems give you discounts for buying other cards or going to other spots, like so a place that cost three workers, if you've got a certain card, it also a spot is now only two workers to go there. It's very simple, to the point where it was a bit too simple. When you add in the spice road or Gollum edition, the first game into the third one, you flip, that's quite clever. The board comes in four parts, and you flip certain bits depending upon which combinations of games you play. So like, they've all got two sides. And for the base one, you play with the A side for all of them. And then for certain combinations, you'll play some with the B side or the C side or whatever it is, as they call it on different ones. And what it does is it adds the base cards in so the base cards would exactly look kind of similar thing where it's, you gain a gem, or you upgrade gems, but it adds it into your own personal worker placement spot. So to go to the first card, it costs you on worker. And to go to the second card, it costs you one worker plus one worker to every card to the left, that hasn't been used so far. Right? Okay, so you're kind of trying to work from left to right, if you're using your own, you can just purely play on this middle board. But if you're using the cards from the base edition, as your sort of work placement spots that were the ones in front of you, you kind of want to work them from left to right, so you're building an engine. And it just radically increased the thought process required. And it turned into what I thought was a light and maybe slightly dull Euro game into maybe a light mid mid weight Euro with a bit more thinking and a bit more sort of having to plan your turns out. And sometimes it's good to go on your own board, because you don't want to sort of pull your people back and reset locations, put other people around the board. And it just really elevated it and I was like well, I've got to keep the set now. Because I would absolutely play the combination of one and three, again, whereas I would have played third on its own. And I'm now intrigued to try one and two and two and three and one, two, and three, because you can have all those combinations. It's just kind of reinvigorated me to try those combinations again. And it's taken two games that are very light, you know, centuries are sort of hand management game buy the golems, etc. The other is a worker placement game, buying some golems. And it doesn't have hand management any any more. But it does happen. Like a tableau builder, engine builder and the worker placement and the worker placement just has slightly more thought process to it, you have to be a bit more careful about how you place the workers. And just turns it into a much better game. In my opinion, the combination of the two. So really happy I tried. I've been talking about it for ages. And just so happened that I saw someone online say Oh, this is my favourite mode of these two together. And I can't remember whether that was the ones that I played or not. But I was like, well, I need to try combining these things again, because otherwise I'm just going to sell off. Definitely the third one or maybe even the second one. I do enjoy the second one on its own. But definitely the third one. As soon as I combined them together and play the game. I was like, No, I've got this set, because it's

JP: 9:04

I'm really kind of pleased with that. Because I used to own spice road. And I had the second one was Eastern wonders. Yeah, Eastern mountains. Yeah. And I played them separately, I knew you could combine them never quite got round to it kind of moved on and then sold them in the end. So to kind of hear about your experiences and you know, dabbling with that mode. That's really good. Because it's kind of I always wondered how it would work or is wondered if it would just be a bit like tacked on. Yeah, you know, you can combine these three games and be like, Should you combine these three games, but it sounds like they've really thought about how to use those components to generate a new game. Yes. And it's

Kerley: 9:41

interesting, I think without one do you think then that third one has suffered from the flexibility of allowing it to combine as media software as a standalone?

Adrian: 9:50

That was my thought process? I must admit. So there is. It's not a terrible game. And I think if you're new to worker placements and new to board games in general, getting these three sets, you've got hand management game, you've got to pick up and deliver game and you've got very basic work placement game. And I think if you haven't played a lot of other worker placement games, those three games will actually be pretty good, pretty good entry level there. They do what they need to do. But having played lots of other worker placement games, I found that the third one was Just a little bit lacking for what I was expecting. But I do think that they've designed the third one because of how modular is like everything is printed with a, like a one, two or three. And it's like you're using set one and two of this for this game, you're using set two and three of this for this combination. So I don't know whether it's necessarily suffered because of it. But I feel like they've had to rein it in maybe a little bit or sort of put sort of cuffs on it a little bit so that it it does interact in being able to combine all these different sets together. Yeah,

Kerley: 10:51

it's definitely an interesting kind of tactic from them. Yeah, to try and combine all three of them. I'd never heard of that before. You guys might know of any another one that does it, but I don't. But yeah, I think that's quite interesting, actually. So what about you T?

Tambo: 11:07

So, Adrian, JP and I played Trickerion on Monday. It's my first play. It was yeah, I really enjoyed it. While I say enjoyed it, it was painful. As mindclash games go, it was obviously very painful. I we did a video first which was always handy. always recommend watch the video first. For the first play a Mindclash game. Again, quick playthrough or a quick how to play. There is no quick how to play really not with Mindclash. But um, no, it was really, really fun. It was okay. I got a bit disappointed halfway through, but I'll go through that in a minute. Visually, the board is awesome. And the cards were just amazing. All the tricks and the whole thing is very clever. If I'd said to JP, that's a very clever, organised game, like who thinks of doing tricks and being a source or a magician and put into a game during the show? It's very clever.

Kerley: 11:57

Yeah, it seems really good cast and those spells no tricks,

Tambo: 12:00

right? Yeah. cackleberry life that's not spell.

JP: 12:04

Yeah, you're gonna piss me off.

Kerley: 12:06

It's wizzards not wizard spells.

JP: 12:09

It's not now stop it

Adrian: 12:11

is it could be, right.

JP: 12:12

So it could be but it's not.

Adrian: 12:13

But it could be how do you know one of them isn't secretly an actual wizard casting spells. I

JP: 12:18

think that's what it is. He just puts on the whole light workshop and making them just like I said, the thematics that Dalgaard who's the master magician in the game. So he's always has a Trickerion stone, which is magical. I accept that because that's the local

Kerley: 12:33

trickerion shards the whole way through magic. But they're

JP: 12:37

called tricks or shut up.

Kerley: 12:41

This is a running joke.

Tambo: 12:42

It's gonna be huge debate all the time. That was

Kerley: 12:44

it's not a debate. I know for well, it's tricks or just I like to wind JP up

Tambo: 12:49

it's fine. So as Minecraft games go, I find it the most punishing for me so far. Yeah, because I made a big mistake. I only carried three workers at least around six. I tried to get one and round five there was just literally 1x One of the dice and had to roll the other one to hopefully get one. But it came to an X quality. That's my rolling for you. So and then I was punished at around six for three weeks. And I found that that's what slowed me up the whole game and it got quite disappointing. I was like, I gotta be grumpy. Oh, yeah, I got quite quiet. But um, yeah, after that, though, it did pick up I stitched up up accidentally

JP: 13:24

started laughing and yeah.

Tambo: 13:27

But um, you always have to be looking at the book, you will never get your eyes off the book and try and find all the different routes with the tricks. So that's a very good little wall. But they got

JP: 13:36

a menu isn't it? You have your head deep in a menu.

Tambo: 13:39

Yeah, that's it. And if if your eyes aren't on that you're not doing it right. I think you've got to be working at that all the time. And but I also found that when you put your tricks into the show, and you choose the day and then you've got to turn to get the right bonuses from it. I find that quite confusing, but like I say, don't read on your first game. Take the whole game for me to get my head around that thing for myself. Yeah, but I got it in the end I think

JP: 14:00

so takes everyone again to get their head around the theatre. The theatre? It's really it's the hardest thing to explain to any new player just because it's quite finicky is quite kind of Yeah, particular in got to put these here. But then it depends on if you're performing if you're not performing what yield modifiers you're getting and then oh yeah, but if you orient the the token, that way, you get the link bonus, but then you get the shard and I get the shard is there's a lot going on in such a one action space. It's it's the worst bits to get your head around. I can't

Adrian: 14:33

see the rest of it, I think personally is not it's it's maybe closer to mid heavyweight and heavyweight. What takes it into heavyweight in my opinion is that theatre, get your head around.

Kerley: 14:44

And also ducks in a row like it is cool. Yeah, the programming side of it where you've got to have your learn the trick, you've then got to get the materials for the trick, you've got to make the trick then you've got set up the trick and then you've got perform the trick, I find that bit there probably elevates it a little bit to a heavier level. The actual gets punishing

Adrian: 15:02

because of it, I wouldn't personally I don't think it's heavier. I think it is more punishing if you get that bit wrong. But I think there's a lot of games that do go through a bit of a lifecycle if you have to click things to make things to sell things or whatever

JP: 15:12

I think is the fact you have to programme your you know, 3456 whatever workers to go through that lifecycle Oh, and just as Tambo mentioned, I got trick blocked. So anyone who's played Trickerion will know what I'm talking about, which is you gear up for a certain trick with a certain set of components. And if some bugger called Tambo robs you of that trick one turn before? Yeah. And I happen to leave the room that was all like smug going to get my level 36 trick and I'm going to do this shit. Where's it gone?

Tambo: 15:42

Oh this one?

JP: 15:44

And then suddenly you're screwed. Because then, you know, I didn't wasn't planning to go to market row. I wasn't planning to get more components. And now I need to. And I'm like, Damn, that's,

Kerley: 15:53

that's kind of the point of what I mean, really, is that it's the it's the game that I feel like I have to think further ahead in order to make it so yes, yes,

Adrian: 16:01

you can get to a point I agree, you can get to a point where you unveil and you know that it's sort of squeaky bum time, because other people are going possibly to where you need to go. And you're like, right now I really have like, prioritise, prioritise, wearing l need to go. Could someone now steal something that I hadn't expected them to steal? Because I didn't think they were gonna go to market row because he would go to market row on round seven or whatever. And so, yeah, there is definitely some moments like that in it. Yeah.

Tambo: 16:27

But overall, I really enjoy and I hope we play again. I hope it's soon as well otherwise, you're just gonna leave my head again.

JP: 16:32

Beckys keen to play so I've been naughty with Trickerion because there is a there is a mode, which doesn't have dark alley and yes, plays five rounds, four rounds, which is the tutorial game, essentially. And I should probably play that with new players

Tambo: 16:52

it wasn't that confusing to me. It was Yeah. as well. Yeah.

Kerley: 16:56

See I don't know if I'd like it anywhere near as much as I do without dark alley dark.

JP: 17:01

No, no, I'm with you. But I'm thinking from people's appetite to learn it and get used to the system because you have more assignment cards, you have more flexibility of where you can go.

Tambo: 17:12

So that might be great way to Becky maybe,

JP: 17:14

maybe just there's only five rounds, isn't it so that's it's a smaller choice. Again,

Adrian: 17:19

I've also found because I'm three games in now, and the crystal ball thing prophecy prophecies, whatever, that's the one. Whatever they're called, I cannot spell they've not triggered much. The prophecies will quite often I will forget about them or someone will be able to move them around or something that catches you out or annoys you a little bit more. And that is still the bit all the other bits and pieces I've kind of felt like I've got and I've understood and I've played through three games, okay, I left like eight months between game one and Game Two, which was a mistake but kind of got back into it again that those prophecies are the bit that I find are the bits that always tripped me up or I feel like adds a bit that I'm always not expecting or forgotten about or something that and then suddenly said oh, by the way this round now your workers count as only having one action point oh Well, I'd planned for

Kerley: 18:21

See, I like that. Yeah, I do. But the thing that I would really miss is the extra cards on the bottom

Adrian: 18:28

cards are great is the prophecies that I think has a bit too much maybe for newer players or people who perhaps aren't.

JP: 18:35

Well, because that's part of dark alleys. It's all or nothing with it. Really. Yeah.

Kerley: 18:40

Well, I'm glad you're gonna give it another go anyway. Yeah. About you Jaypizzle. Oh, yes,

JP: 18:46

I was going to talk about viticulture world. Also known as Dark Souls, the board game.

Adrian: 18:54

There is a dark souls board game

JP: 18:57

not the same thing. I'm talking about its difficulty level. So for those that don't know, what viticulture world is, it's a cooperative expansion, which basically lets you play viticulture as a team, which is really weird. I still, I still kind of can't get my head round playing that game, cooperatively. Yeah. So he's kind of like you have all your hand cards and you like, Guys, look what I can do like all of these kind of vines and contracts and all the usual stuff. But you can kind of trade with other people as you go using your grande worker. The board is kind of simplified back to it's kind of base game with summer and winter. The difference is that instead of kind of training more workers and getting more workers to use, you have restricted workers with these little hats on. So you have this summer hats and winter hats. So you have two of your workers for summer and two of your workers for winter. And that's the only season and they can work until you train them and you take the hat off and they can go wherever the hell they like. And the other thing that they kind of introduced in there as innovations, which is the actual cool bit where you can kind of innovate the board buying, improving the action spaces and make them more efficient. Or you can actually improve the board by opening up the worker placement spots so that anybody can go number of people and go there so because I think in this version you have two worker spots Yeah, for one to three. yeah three you're allowed one spot and then four plus you will have both spots. So the board feels tighter than typical viticulture, especially Tuscany, which I'm used to, which is like, go for whatever you like, really? Yeah,

Adrian: 20:35

see I've only played Tuscany 2 player, I feel that it's possibly not great that to player because you're gonna get the one spot if you're not out of rhythm of each other someone ends up losing out because someone has to go out of rhythm. But anyway, that's yeah,

JP: 20:48

I've never felt this, this kind of punished in the ball tightness anyway. So the purpose of the kind of game is that you get a set of scenarios that you can kind of play which are different continents around the world, hence viticulture worlds, you can play in like Asia, kind of Europe, the Americas, all that kind of lovely stuff. And they add twists to the rules to the game. We've played green Gully, which is the first one we played Asia. And we've played Oceania. Yeah. So those are the three that we played. So the first game we played, which was quite a few weeks back now, we comfortably did it

Kerley: 21:27

very well, it

Adrian: 21:28

was it was looking a little bit hit or miss and in like the last couple of cards it gives you it's like have loads of free stuff to get you across the line. And suddenly we'd like

Kerley: 21:37

think we would have done it without,

Adrian: 21:39

I think we would have been it would have been very close, it would have been close to true. And then suddenly it went have loads and loads of things and got there. There's like a pink leaf tracker, whatever. tracker that you have to get to the end of the tracker to win. And it was like have a load of these out of nowhere. Is that all right? Okay, fair enough.

JP: 21:56

That's why you have to get 10 influence, collectively between you. And you all have to score 25 victory points,

Tambo: 22:03

which was asked how do you win? That's the win. How do you lose? There's a certain time you go

JP: 22:07

around, do those things. You got six years. It's actually that's it. That's it. And you think Christ. Sometimes in games like the one last night, we got to year 4 and we hadn't even got going, off the things. But that's the kind of game it's still viticulture, it's just weird that you kind of play openly. But the difficulty level is right up there in a proper puzzle. I mean, last night, we nearly did it. Yeah, we were probably, you know, two actions probably pay off

Adrian: 22:40

to two workers to work two extra workers. Yeah. Would have got us across the line. Exactly. Yeah. Because between us, we had the right amount of money and the right bits and pieces to do it. We were just two workers short over just getting them happening

JP: 22:52

We missed something on the way but yeah, I've been enjoying it. It's it's definitely a challenge. And I think if it was too easy, would probably blitz through all the scenarios and never play it again. But the fact that it is a challenge means you're sitting there thinking, talking and trying to work out the best way forward. It's just, I just find it weird in that game, because I've played viticulture for how many years competitively. And I'm still kind of like, now I need to be open and I need to kind of ask, Are you going there? Do you need to go there? Can I go there? Because I need to do this thing. And yeah, it's just a weird looks on his head, doesn't it?

Kerley: 23:28

I really like it, there's it's not really issues with it, because it increases difficulty but I'm not sure it plays very well at three player if I'm brutally on. Yeah. Because because of the fact that so what it does, guys is that the work placements plays in the normal game of Viticulture world, you've got two spaces to pick from, when you play three player, it gives you a bit of a leg up on the influence, which you've got to get 10 off and it starts you want three instead of zero, but it reduces down the number of spaces to one on each one. And I think that's disproportionately restrictive, because we found so many times. And we had to go out of our way to get the innovations as well to make sure that we could go down with as many as we could. So it just was quite punishing. It felt quite punishing that. And also I do feel like and I hadn't this about and I just about got over the line with it. But I drew really bad on the green cards at the start and I just felt like strong straight off the bat. But if we'd have drawn well then would that would I say I feel like I feel like if we replayed it we could easily win without playing very much better just down to some

JP: 24:33

but then you got to ask yourself like these down then to look whether you not whether you win or not. But obviously to make it easier that you've won that scenario is because you had a lucky draw firsthand whereas I'd feel better if it was because we actually cooperated and worked and taught you through and we figured the puzzle

Kerley: 24:52

really cooperated really well. Yeah, we did. Yeah. And I felt like that like we played well. Yeah, I don't really feel like that we made that many mistakes.

JP: 25:00

It's I'm still trying to work out wherever I prefer competitive viticulture, Tuscany I think I do in my opinion, but I'm enjoying this cooperative spin. It's I found this

Adrian: 25:12

with Ares expedition crisis is it's just taking a system you know and you're comfortable with to some extent and putting enough of a twist on it to turn it coop yeah And I'm quite enjoying that because you if you've got people who know viticulture, and they know it sort of competitively, then yes, there are some extra rules and some extra different thought processes. But for the most part, you know, that lifecycle have got planned, got harvest got turned into wine, got fulfilled, contracts, all that kind of stuff. And it's the kind of the same with that Aries expedition crisis. Core version is it's very much doing a lot of the same same things just with a slightly different mindset to it. The thing that I struggle with, and I struggle with it last night was, as you said, Turn four, I think I've made one bottle of wine.

JP: 25:58

And that's because I gave it to you. And I know he gave me one and I've made another one. But yeah, it was it. It escalates so quick, at the end, I feel like I can't easily see whether we're going to get it or not until like almost just the sixth turn. And like demoralising, a burden it is

Adrian: 26:17

and one of my one of the hardest games that I've played cop is ghost stories. And it's well known for being an absolute horror game for a teaching and be playing and getting to the end and all that kind of stuff. And yet, I think I tilt less on that game. So for those who don't know, tilt is something that you kind of your headspace goes a bit wonky, because you're frustrated with something and you tend to sort of get a little bit in your own head. I tend to tell less with ghost stories than I've done with the viticulture world because I find I struggle to see how we're doing.

JP: 26:49

Yeah. Big steep curve, like suddenly

Adrian: 26:52

in the last minute, it just sort of shoots off. I find it hard to kind of judge where we're at and judge how we're doing and you're like, end of turn four we've all got like nine points each and the leaf is on the seventh spot or whatever how we can do this in two turns. And it's yeah, it's tough. Like from a sort of mental point of view. I find it quite a tough game. Really enjoy it. But yeah, definitely tough. And so we

JP: 27:14

need a win. Don't wait, we do need, we need to win. So you need to win. Otherwise, it's gonna get really difficult. I've seen the replay one of them. I will do it'll be either Asia or Oceania.

Adrian: 27:26

Oceania yet?

JP: 27:28

Yeah. That's great. Yeah.

Kerley: 27:32

So for myself, I'm not I'm gonna go just have quite quick one on this one. So what I've been doing lately is playing a lot of Board Game Arena. You have I have playing a lot of art Nova primarily, although I've done a little bit of last rounds of Anak as well. Just wanted to talk about how much I'm enjoying that really, the BGA is what they tend to call it. Nova, where the kids made a lot you're rapping

JP: 27:57

that shells presents really

Kerley: 28:01

charming. The proper dad joke to go with a dad rapping you did earlier on it your your daughter? She loved it. Yeah, thanks. I'm cool. Yeah. Very, very cool. Yes. BGA, it's got really good version of art. And I've just got really verson of most games to be fair, but Ark Nova, Just if you if you're into that it plays really, really well. really obvious the interface is brilliant. Yeah, just thoroughly enjoying it. And what's good about it is is you can play whenever you want. So me and Davey sat down the other day, and just did a couple of games one after the other because it didn't take very long on BGA. Everything set up for us all Donald throughout. So it took about an hour and 20 play somewhere like pretty good. And we just you know, we finished one game, we didn't even talk really we just kind of went like rematch and went straight into it. Because it was like, you know, not late enough. So yeah, that was really good fun playing live. But then what I've been doing, I've got three games simultaneously going on at the minute, where you just do it when you get a chance. So when you get two minutes in a day and you're on a break, or you know you go and you're waiting for a cup of coffee to boil, you can take time to the other person you've

Adrian: 29:04

been playing on computer and on your phone. And I always thought BGA on the phone must be reservations when he first talked about if I remember correctly. That Yeah, you were like, I'm not sure how this is going to work. How does does it work on phone? So?

Kerley: 29:18

Yes, very well. But there's two little things that I would say if I were to give them feedback is that the chat function is not great. Right on a phone. I'm talking about iPhone, it might be okay on Android, I can't tell you. But when you go into the chat function when you type, you cannot see what you're typing into your

Adrian: 29:33

press. Oh, nice. I've seen that on so it's

Kerley: 29:36

a bit of a gamble. Yeah, and you know how bad my typing is, as well. I make pigs, I didn't mean to call you a helmet. Yeah, that's exactly. So that's annoying. But apart from that, the only other thing is that it doesn't seem to have an easy way for you to go on to a card and get the information from it. Right. You'd hover over normally. Right? Exactly. So and exactly it does it on PC, you just literally click on it and it brings up a little description of exactly and even more than the actual card has got on there. It gives you all of basically the rulebook a little bit as well by the rules reference. Exactly. And it's brilliant on PC but on on you can't even look at the card once you've played it for an example unless it happens to be on the top on your phone. Okay, so what I tend to do is if there's something big either look it up in a glossary, because you can find it all online anyway, or just went on back on a PC to look at it. But yeah, those are the only two things apart from that it works absolutely perfectly. You can zoom in, you can do everything that you would imagine. But those two functions, but it's get aroundable, I would say, but just a little bit. Yeah, like I say,

JP: 30:41

how would you find like running multiple games at one go? I mean, obviously, your mistakes are made, I was gonna say like to say, I think if I have three games of Ark Nova on the go, I wouldn't know what game I was doing on what you know, I mean, like, I thought this this game, I'm applying this strategy. And then this second game, I'm playing a different strategy. So

Kerley: 30:59

right if you play the same game in a row, but if it's like one person does one thing, and then you go back to it later on, and it's all like this person is responding. The other person hasn't, you know, yeah. But it's not been too bad as long as you go into it. And I would say, you take maybe 30 seconds, just to make sure you've got a grip on that game. So for example, I'm like, right, which are the cards that are near the top? Am I near to any of the conservation goals? You know, and what have I got in my hand if I got money? Is it close to the break? So those are the little checks. I

JP: 31:28

just, you know, the game anyway, that you know, really well. That's the point.

Kerley: 31:32

I don't think I would want to play a game on there that I didn't know quite well. But for an example, one mistake I did make recently is I spent the whole game working towards the final scoring card was for a different game. All the small animals I'm getting out little little flippin cheeky grin on my face, and I went out. So yeah, it happens. But I think the the negatives, and that is, yeah, that is kind of one of them of playing multiple games at the same time. But you could say that I've anything really that's just juggle too many things at the same time. But yeah, all of it is get aroundablel as long as you don't, you know, get too invested in it. You know, as far as like, don't mind if you lose too much all that stuff, you know, but I just yeah, I'm really enjoying it and playing bit with Davey and one with young Dan Apsey and Ben filler, or from my little gaming groups. Yeah, really, really enjoying it. That's what I've been up to. Nice. So moving on to the next section, our little main event. Right, so down to the main event, we're talking about competitive head one v one. Yeah, so grudge match. So we're just gonna have a little bit of a discussion about our favourites, the definition of it, some of the ups and downsides, that sort of thing. So I've got a bunch of kind of questions that I want to put to the group really. But before we go into the questions we talked about, well, the definition basically is to play a competitive game. That's kind of what I want to say really the ball game that we're discussing, they don't have to be designed as a to plan we're going to talk about the positives and negatives of that. But just playing a board game two player competitors it could be a five player but playing exactly yeah, it's only I say that because me and Becky do that quite a bit. Confirm Oh, yeah. So let's have a little bit of a chat about types of one v one so I've just put in guys I want you to add to these but for an example with these ones, I've got war games. So some of my favourite wars ring I kind of put Star Wars rebellion in there as well. Yeah. But you can make an argument for

JP: 33:41

kind of is a kind of is or game isn't it?

Kerley: 33:44

One of my personal favourites and this way you know we're talking about our favourites in a bit but it's a tough one actually. But net runner is one v one is oh my god it's good. So card games in general, right and I'm gonna put down now I don't know of many others like this maybe us guy can help me out with it. But crocodile so I think that's a really good one v one game but there are many dexterity games that fit that one v one or is that pretty much

JP: 34:10

Carooka which is one v one

Adrian: 34:12

you mean even men at work can be played? Well I played men at work 1v1 before from a dexterity point of view Jenga

Kerley: 34:19

and then the other main one I was going to get into and I was kind of you know, there weren't too many, but kind of higher player counts reduced down to a tee that was kind of its own category for me, and there are ones that don't fit easily into it like where do you put what you know for an example where do you put seven wonders duel? You know, I don't really think that really fits into anything too. Well maybe a card game maybe

Adrian: 34:40

I've got a few like I'd say that any kind of Euro game that you see out there there is a sort of maybe a similar version or there's a type of it that's a two player that you can get in a two v one v one game there's quite a few out there I've got a few on my list so I think I think yeah, I think you've got the most of them covered but I think there's plenty more than that if you can just kind of cover it by to play euros almost

JP: 35:05

Yeah, but there's also an abstract games which a lot of them are 2 player. Basically you'd be forgetting chess and you forgetting like backgammon droughts, and

Adrian: 35:16

we got the Q series and you'd like corridor and cool I think it was applied recently

JP: 35:22

quatro and all this near shore those ones.

Kerley: 35:26

So I guess we'll discuss what our favourites are in a minute. But what do we think makes a good one v one?

JP: 35:33

I think for me, when I think about one v one games, I'm probably thinking more about games designed as one v one. That's okay. So what makes a good one v one game for me, it's just, it's you versus them. Like, it's, it's mano a mano, right? It's one of he's gonna end at the top like a boxing match, right? It's quite exciting. And it's like, everything's on you. They're doing everything to kind of stop you from winning, and you're doing everything to stop them from winning, you haven't got any other part is getting involved is the direct fist fight. through board gaming.

Kerley: 36:07

It's interesting you say that, actually. And we'll get on to why in

JP: 36:10

a minute. So that that for me is why I like them. Doesn't make me good at them. But that's why I like like them, because there's not many games that I feel like that when we play kind of larger multiplayer groups. You're kind of doing your thing, but there's more players in there and you're obviously getting in each other's ways and various different game types. But yeah, for me, it's me against you. That's all that matters. And it's just different ways of of orchestrating that though for games.

Tambo: 36:37

Yeah, I'm agree with JP there, I think. But the elimination part, isn't it? When you 1 v 1 you get to kill them? It's not like your VP get first highest VP, but the My favourite is i When if you win? You're dead. Yeah. That's that's a good thing. I think. Yeah, to get a couple VP's is good highest VPS is good. But the elimination prize, the

JP: 37:00

fun bit he's the sheep of the group, by the way. Yeah.

Adrian: 37:06

But yeah, I think from a game design point of view, something that makes a good one v one in a specifically two player a game is that both sides feel one side might feel ahead, one side might feel behind, but they both feel like they're in it until it's done. So the game has either you know, using war of the ring or rebellion, you know, one side feels massive at the start, they're going to slow up dwindled, or somebody caught or whatever, yeah. But they will always fill in it until they're actually done. And I think a lot of the great ones who won games, whether it's a war game or not, gives you that feeling of being right in it, and then it the game finishes, when it needs to finish. It's not because it's terrible in one of the one game when it's points based. And you can see the points tracker and one person's miles behind, which happens in all games, right? But when there's four of you around the table, you kind of have to take your lumps if you're miles behind. But in a one v one game, it's rubbish, because it's just two of you. And you know, you'd like your miles behind the scenes, too much. So a good one v one game will in most plays of it make you feel right, that you're right into it until it's done. Yeah. And I think that's what makes a great one.

Kerley: 38:21

So I've got down it's just a few little ideas, not quite as specific. But just as general things a little bit like you were saying, Adrian, and this might be part of it is Becky put this one for because I was kind of spitballing with her earlier on. A good catch up mechanic. Yeah, yeah. And I think that is for that reason, probably a good idea of actually, that's a good shout. Because a lot of them you know, and it doesn't always have to be an obvious catch up mechanic, but just little things, you know, going first or that kind of stuff, things that make it so that one person is not going to go to stupidly far ahead. Even if it's

Adrian: 38:53

a camouflage rather than a catch up mechanic, even if it's camouflaging, how far you are behind. Yeah, until suddenly you unveil this have been done so that both sides feel in it. So the thing I think

Kerley: 39:06

when you were talking about it, the one word that sprung to mind that you're trying to portray is maybe invested in that kind of shoe invested. Yes, that's it. So even if it's, you know, part of the theme is a lot to do with that. But as you say part of it is feeling like you're actually yeah, your chance,

JP: 39:20

it will just diminish the game that you're absolutely right. If you feel like well, this is over and it's the minutes and then the game collapses on itself, doesn't it? Yeah, because one side just buckles or just gives up. And then that's not a great game. Yeah, so you want to be right out the end, who's going to win don't know what's exciting is that you're going to throw the last punch for you what's going to happen tense,

Adrian: 39:43

and that's where I find some of the multiplayer games fall down to one v one Some of them don't hit the mark because you do see all the points on the board and you can see where it's all going from very early well, then anyone sitting here for another hour and so they don't often make my table, get to get to the table when I'm playing one v one you need that catch up mechanicl that camouflage or something like that. Yeah, definitely.

Kerley: 40:05

So that moves us on nicely to the next segment really because really, we haven't really talked too much about multiplayer games that play well at two and I think is a different subject. So what I'm going to say is what about a multiplayer thats a normal higher player count game makes it viable at a two player. And I'll just go first just give you some examples of what I mean. So as some of this came from Becky as well, not contentious. So although you can be contentious, obviously at a lower player count, it dramatically changes. For example, if you're playing Twilight Imperium as a two player, the amount of bits you could have to yourself would would change the game entirely, wouldn't it? You wouldn't ever have to go to war. Really? Do you know what I mean? So it means games that are higher player count where contention works reducing it down to two means that there is no contention and therefore it breaks the game. Yeah. All right. And I think this game will be viable 100% Multi role games is another one so for an example and this is more coop for me but I saw what me and Becky were just chatting through with it about it. Games where you've got multiple roles where if the other one doesn't exist, and it wouldn't work more of a cooperative thing in my mind well, I saw where she was going with it and it's just a really a matter of you kind of all working together so if you just had a mechanic and a fight then you'd be missing out on someone who was there to keep the you know, the group's the officer was Yeah, exactly.

Tambo: 41:29

Exactly. Mechanics fixed ship struggling, or something like that. That's

Kerley: 41:33

it. So would that work as a two player for example, now it is more of a co op, but it's kind of a what is it? I called it originally a selfish selfish git game. Yes. Game. So it's kind of in its own kind of

Adrian: 41:43

right, I think you can expand that further. Which is a game that misses out a mechanic or a part of the board or something that by going two player sometimes when you go two player, I'm sorry, I've beat you to it but when you go two player, sometimes you lose an entire mechanism, or it becomes so much diminished, it's not worth going to those spots. And there's no like, if it's to play cover this bit of the board or anything like that, it's they like that quite often. It's just left there. And I also think of things like wingspan that between round cards Yeah. Where it's not between round but it's you know, if another player does on the turn, those cards are weaker on it are so much weaker that you never buy them. Yeah, so I've household it before that when those cards come up, if we agree, just chuck them out of the shop, because it's a mechanism that kind of sits in the box it plays to players and yet it really doesn't add to it so anything that feels like it removes part of the game to beat it like

Tambo: 42:47

wingspan you can only do it once anyway

Adrian: 42:49

when there's four people doing

Tambo: 42:52

I suppose you just select that person or the like I want to stay away from it. Yeah, but it's

Kerley: 42:56

all that it's going to happen once every four or five times whereas chances are if you're playing four or five people one person is going to do you feel a benefit every single round but

JP: 43:04

they can then just quit feels like it clogs up the shop if you just leave them makes no one takes them so that's why household it before just to get rid of those assessable kind of work around really yeah anything like that where you feel like you're not getting the full if you're playing it four players this is the game and then two players I've only got really half the game I find right off my two playlist

Kerley: 43:24

and you know going back to the Nemesis size any hidden enemy stuff which I appreciate is you know we're not really talking about one on one v one but any hidden enemies you couldn't reduce it down to two player.

Adrian: 43:34

I disagree. Gone Tell me. So whitehall mystery, one side plays Jack the Ripper. The other side plays the police officers there's always three police officers, whether there's 2,1 2, or three on the other side of the board. whoever's playing officers can get a little bit tunnel vision with their thought is the right way. And they could possibly do with an ear to sort of talk to but it still pays absolutely fine. With one playing Jack the Ripper and the other player playing all the police officers, I still think matched against each other.

Kerley: 44:05

That's probably a terminology problem. I mean, games that you don't know who's who are hidden.

JP: 44:11

Yeah, hidden movement be like your theory. Yeah. Even

Kerley: 44:14

movement, for example, might well work because they tend to for example, with fury of Dracula, you would just control all four players, right?

JP: 44:21

I'm not sure. I want to know I'm not sure I would either. Yeah, that's a different question.

Adrian: 44:25

I think I think white hall mystery is boiled down so much. It's such a more simplified version that does work. Whereas I agree. I wouldn't want to pay for your Dracula one be one that

JP: 44:32

I'd play 3 player on it, but I don't think

Adrian: 44:33

they do Whitehall mystery one v one

Kerley: 44:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So what I wanted to talk about as well, because I've got a little bit of a quote, because my brother absolutely hates one v one games. So I thought as a nice little thing, I would say, okay, Jay, why. So yeah why Jay? Why, why, and I thought we could discuss that. See if anyone feels the same or or has the same issues with it. I don't think we do not, maybe just analyse it.

JP: 45:04

I'm thinking of Rob. Yeah, probably involved in a one v one game later. Yeah, because by his own admission, everything rides on him.

Kerley: 45:13

Yeah. That's basically what it comes down to. I'll read out the text he sent me because I did say I'm going to use this. There's no fruity language in there or anything,

JP: 45:22

that's a shame.

Kerley: 45:24

I don't like the fact that the pressure is purely on you to find a solution, or resources or director get directed against you. And then someone is purely getting inside your head. In a three or four player game, it's just up to you to find a solution to someone else's power creep. And if you're underpowered, you can still win if if you can set the other opponents against each other. So he likes to be the kind of the hidden sneaky one who then goes on when this type of thing and

JP: 45:48

yeah we know that

Kerley: 45:49

it is too much direct competition and pressure on him, I think got nowhere to

JP: 45:53

hide. You're, you're in the sights, everything you'd like to say that the chips are down? Yeah, we've got to figure your way out before someone annihilates you

Kerley: 46:02

see, and I like that, because I hate it. When I start to go ahead slowly and everyone goes, right. Let's go pick on Kerley and beat him up, and then I end up losing just you know, and that frustrates me. Whereas if it's one on one that I already know, that's the case, you know, the other person's got to pick on you because while the choice of they don't know where you are, so I prefer it that way. It's more of an onus on your own ability. And, you know,

Tambo: 46:25

yeah, I think as part of the one p one is quite so we were all paying Warrington, aren't we Yeah, then I instantly say to you, I'm sorry, maybe I'm not gonna be much of a challenge because you're much better. So one v one games, you've got that pressure thinking, I'm not gonna be a challenge. Otherwise, it's gonna be a waste of your night. You know, cuz you want to make it fun. But that's, that's, that's, that's all I always say, if I play one v one, and I don't think we're gonna sequentially. Yeah, I always mentioned, I'm not gonna be very good at it, but I'm happy to play it. But I'm not very good tactican

Kerley: 46:50

I was saying to Adrian yesterday, yesterday, or the day before I was saying that, actually, you know, hey, look, guys, we should always try and self improve. And I've, you know, I've realised that probably, although I do kind of believe in always trying to win stuff, just because then if someone beats you if they beat in the real you kind of thing. But I've kind of decided when it comes to one v one game specifically, I need to just dial it down a little bit. And just for the first couple of games, try and just do it as a teaching game. Purely. Don't really try it not I'm not saying don't try and win, but don't try and blow out the bloody water basically. And yeah, so I had that in mind when we were playing. It's just a matter of, I'm going to take it as I'm not going to say I'm not going to try and win. But my primary focus is going to be on teaching you how to play. And that's been a bit of a how to be competitive. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's it's one of them that certainly make you don't have to worry about being a challenge, or we will just play. Yeah, no, no, that's fine. But I'm interested in trying to get you interested in it.

Adrian: 47:53

Yeah, just bringing out what people might think of one v one games if you're going into games whisked across my mind a little bit.

JP: 47:59

With my own gaming anyway. Because we've got members of the group like, Are you sure I'm okay to attend this evening, because I feel like I might waste to see if I perform badly. And I just think that's crazy. In my mind. I'm like, dude come and sit down and play. But I'd imagine that's heightened in a one v one, because you say it's on you. And if you feel like you're just not doing very well. It's like playing a game of squash with someone who doesn't know how to play squash. It's not fun for either side. Exactly. That's

Kerley: 48:29

exactly how I see it is like, if you're amazing at squash and you just be fucking I don't I don't even know within 11 or 21. Yeah, but if you beat him 11 nil every single time and you just bury him. He was enjoying just smash the rock on the floor. I mean, you're gonna play

JP: 48:45

me you're gonna play squash for the workout, right? And you're not getting to work out because you're literally hitting the ball and then return. And it's just like, this is boring.

Kerley: 48:52

This is how I felt if you ever played badminton against Iain. I have. Yeah, it's very unpleasant. Yes. So, Iain used to play Perth county. county level of badminton. And yeah, I just went to play with him and don't get me wrong. I'm not awful. But I mean, he decided do a workout is like I was like sweat. I was like, sweat dripping off me. barely breathe. And he's there. He's He's like, he's like smash me. I've like got like three points off him the whole night or something. You know? It was? Yeah, entirely pointless exercise.

JP: 49:30

While I play squash with them.

Kerley: 49:31

Yeah. Yeah, you're safer that way. But yeah, then we just thought it'd be an interesting thing.

JP: 49:37

We love them. But

Kerley: 49:39

I do love them. And that kind of segways beautifully into the last little bit that I wanted to talk about really? And that is oh gosh, what your favourite is just a little mini deep dive on one of your favourites and okay, really? I'm going to start off with War of the Ring because we haven't done a deal I was uming and arring in between war of the ring and net runner for a long time but I thought we've done a deep dive on that rather than a whole episode. I've done a whole episode on netrunner. So go listen to the netrunner episode if you're interested. Yeah, that's it is great. And although I was umming and arring in between doing the Lord of the Rings episode, there's too many of the IPs that I just don't know. Yeah, decide not to go for it. But so on. So get it all out is this again our system so War of Th ring is one v one, you've got good guys versus bad guys, basically, and you can split it up. I don't like to do that where you've got elves, dwarfs, men, or gondor and Rohan and then the north. So there's quite a lot of factions and they're all over the map, you start off and essentially what I really liked about the game, it is a straight kind of fighting game. It's risk on flipping, you know, steroids, basically, with the Lord of the Rings map, but there's so many little differences. And what I love about it, is that there's obviously so much more military power with the bad guys. You know that and you feel like you're if you're the good guys, you're up against it like straight away, Turn one you are fighting it, you know, and I love that part of it, how it feels very asymmetric, with tonnes a lot of people off. But I think with especially with the expansion, for those of you who've played it, you'll understand that it kind of evened out and balanced the game really nicely. So before, it was much more of a, say a 65-35 split in the favour of the forces of evil would actually win. But the expansion gave the good guys a little bit. What's that expansion is that well, so the expansion now I think it's called as it lords of Middle Earth, I think it's called. Eventually, well, the rings were already in it. But the outer map, right, the outer map, they gave you more dice. If you remember the way the game plays, you roll the dice and you can do one action for throws that you've got gave him more dice for the different characters you've got it made it, it made that especially early game a lot more 50-50 Even though you've got less troops, you didn't really feel like you had to do less, you know, it really evened it out, in my opinion. And the other thing I really liked about the game and looks at I could talk for ages about this game, I absolutely flippin love it. But the other thing I love about it is you can win in two different ways. So you can either win through pure expansion really and conquest. So for example, the evil guys need to get to 10 victory points. All right, which is two for taking a big stronghold, and one for taking a smaller one basically, of the good guys. And the good guys, because they're so much weaker, they only need four points, you know, but there's so much less likely.

JP: 52:36

Four is where they just get the shit kicked out.

Kerley: 52:39

You're just constantly. So yeah, you can win that way to one, or you can win. And this is a lot of ring specific IP stuff. I suppose if you're the good guys, you can get the ring to Mordor, you can put the put it in the fire of Mount Doom. And there you go, you're the winner, you know, but you've got to kind of get there before being found out and corrupted by Sauron. So that's kind of the push and pull. So whilst you're fighting people off, you've got you've got these loads of dice that you've rolled now. Do you spend them on getting more troops in to defend against the evil guy who's actually rampaging across the land? Or do you spend the dice on slowly getting the fellowship nearer to Mordor and reducing their corruption and all this kind of stuff? So it's a brilliant kind of, oh, do I prioritise, you know? And the same goes for the evil guys. Again, you can do 10 points with with strongholds and things like that. Or you can correct the fellowship up to I think it's 12 points of corruption. If you manage to get to that point, you've turned Sam and Frodo basically. And they've given into the sway the ring kind of thing. So yeah, I've always liked that kind of, you know, always trying to balance those two, you know, bits, but yeah, one of my favourites always whenever I play it is a bit of a setup takes about an hour. And it's a bit of a nightmare in that..

JP: 53:56

you painted the bases haven't you?

Kerley: 53:57

Yeah, well, I won't take credit for that. Now. Becky offered to paint the bases and I accepted but it just you know, because the factions all of the colour looks all the same, but it's useful to have them split off. So Becky's very lovingly painted all the bases of all the different factions. So you know, instantly which ones were there are a sample. Yeah, so that makes it a lot easier to set up. I have to say but yeah, and once you know the game as well, a little bit of one of you does at least it flows a little bit better. But yeah, absolutely love it. One other thing my favourite one v one game. Again, you can split it up into v two, but that would be Yeah, not something I would ever do. It's

Adrian: 54:33

the rebellion effect isn't it's just taking a roll and splitting into and then going. That's a two player, two player each side. I just doesn't work for me

Kerley: 54:40

doesn't work at all. So yeah, that's my guys. So JP, what's yours?

JP: 54:45

Yeah, I've been thinking about this one. I think recently, I really, really enjoy Hopper Marcus remastered as one v one. Is that that No, for me, is probably the best of all of the modes I have in the air. It's just where it sings. It's quick, it's fast. You can play a game in about an hour, maybe under an hour. So remember the free games we had to the week earlier the month where I think we played three matches in one evening. Brilliant. So you have I can't remember if it's 5 or 6 or 7 factions. All kind of loosely based off, you know kind of civs in history and antiquities. Yes. And they all are quite similar and have asymmetric units and things like that. But if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, so chip theory, games surprise, but it's a reimagining of their older IP is the very first game that they ever released, which was pretty much hand cranked out. Or their artwork was a kind of crowd sourced and done for free or royalty free off the internet and all that kind of stuff. So just had a bit of the ship theory love. And it's, you know, all the artworks just been just up and it just looks pretty spectacular, but it's just the gladiatorial arena, skirmishy battle game. I love it. I love it. But it's, it's just great. And you're gonna work the crowd favour. And you know, the more kills you get, the more and again it depends on what arena you're fighting in my personal favourites the Coliseum, because your hero is chained up at the start which means it's vulnerable when he can't move but people can kill him. So you'll you'll naturally trying to defend your hero and trying to go on the offence as well and and obviously it's circular and it Yeah, it just works really well but yeah, getting crowded favour unlocking little benefits for your team and locking your heroes you can send the big the big boy out and as those the double thickness chips as well which is quite nice to muck around with. And yeah, it's just that that to me is the epitome of me versus us. Like I've got my team you've got your team. And it's like it takes you back to a kid when you're like playing with the toy soldiers and they're playing the toy soldiers and you just go in you know

Kerley: 56:58

an honourable mention to crossbows and catapults Yeah, it's just it's just

JP: 57:02

reminds me of that. Obviously there's a framework and theres a game involved, but it just brings you into the right I've got my stuff rolling those dice and yeah, I just love it.

Kerley: 57:11

I forgotten about hoplomarcus Yeah, and

JP: 57:13

I request that you do one V one. I'll be interested to play one Yeah,

Kerley: 57:17

with you for sure.

JP: 57:18

Yeah, we should do that for me. One v one ma

Kerley: 57:21

Yeah, that's the best Yeah, that's me man. T, what about you?

Tambo: 57:24

So I love Star Wars rebellion. That was one of my favourite the one I really love at the moment which is getting marks as far as kapow

JP: 57:33

I need to play this

Tambo: 57:34

it's just I just love it. It's just a dice attack you know be about one one v one up to once we couldn't even get a bit. Yeah, I love the fact that you roll your dice and then you you hide them from the other person you choose what you want to do. And it's that excitement of what you're doing and we will obviously going to kapow yeah, if you're the defender or is it going to punch me was gonna power up it's just it's just really good fun. And then the way you powering up and get building your own dice as well. It's just it's just so much fun.

Kerley: 58:01

And I remember the final turn of that game I was just like Alright, I'm gonna go for it earlier just put everything in offence and there'll be doesn't get enough defence. I like did I did just

Tambo: 58:10

perfect defence I can do it. Yeah, and that's all he normally runs down to him to kapow it's always the last hit. It's like defend as best you can and attack in the right the end. And if you have the highest defence keep the first player which is always an interesting mechanic as well. Always interesting to keep defending to keep the first player so you get first because you get first punch because then you don't if you die you don't get time to defend do so it's that's the world that works attack, defend, power up. And then any other like offensive abilities go on as well.

JP: 58:37

So does that happen? You said you can customise the dice is that like Dice Forge?

Tambo: 58:41

Yes. It's like dice forge. You got trait dice, which is all around all the dice. You've got the action dice are big black dice, where you put your own faces on.

Adrian: 58:47

And they've got the same symbols as the trait dice. Yes, that you plug them in yourself

JP: 58:52

you gear it up however you want.

Adrian: 58:54

What's interesting about it is it starts with nothing, basically. So you just got blank dice, blank dice basically. By the sides on top of that. Yeah. Well, there's definitely some moments in that game where you reveal and someone thinks they've absolutely nailed you too, right? It's like I've just played this special, which means you can't do anything this round. I can see they're faced, right. And it's like, I'll take first player points. Now it's my turn.

Kerley: 59:23

Yeah, I like the predicting stuff in it as well. So it's like if the other player does x then you get y he got down it was 50 50 between those two as well. And it got me

Adrian: 59:33

this nice but it was a surprise hit out the Expo for me. I didn't didn't interest me. So it's a dice chucker not very interested me superhero generic superheroes, not even IP superheroes. Not sure about this. And then, yeah, I've played it a few times now. And it it's definitely sort of every time produced a different one. If you want to experience

Tambo: 59:52

it's quick as well. It's likely done in 20 minutes on your

Adrian: 59:54

yeah itd best of 3 out of 5. But yeah, I'm really struggling with this one because I don't know that any of the big games that I play when we want to play one we want quite a lot. Like really make it into my top 10 20 for being one v one. Okay, I enjoy one v one games. I enjoy quite a lot of the mechanics, the mechanisms that you can't really do in multiplayer, but they don't. They're not like ah, this is great. So I'm just Thinking of things like, it's wonderful kingdom. So I love its a wonderful world made no secret of that. It's wonderful Kingdom still does the empire building thing. But it doesn't I split you choose. So you're splitting cards into separate packs and getting the other person to choose. And some of them are facedown and some of them can be negatives, and you're kind of playing that little mind game of like, Have I placed that facedown because I want it and I want you to think it's a bad thing or have I placed it facedown because I want you to have it because it's rubbish. And I want the other side. And it gives you a different mindset. Also not holding on the best cards to last, you're often trying to get them in second or third round to last year, you get to pick them up yourself and you're trying to play that bluffing game. And that you don't really see much of that in multiplayer games, it's pretty much I've only seen it like I split you choose in one v one games for the most part. And I'm also thinking of games like blitzkrieg, which is World War Two. Axis versus allies, tug of war five different theatres, you're putting chips out of the bag, and holding on to them, and then you're playing them to pull this rope. It's like tug of war towards one end or the other. And then whenever you whoever wins the most theatres Out of these five areas, the first time you play, you won't get your head into or I certainly didn't, the first couple of times, you won't get your head into the flow. So it'll be like it's one for kingdom that I split you choose. Because it's not really prevalent in anything else. It's a flow that you don't maybe get instantly it's wasn't built up in my brain. And it's the same with blitzkrieg, this tug of war. And the way it works wasn't naturally built into my brain. So I had to change. Like I had to learn the game a little bit more. But because they're 20 minute rounds, I don't mind that and it's like, okay, well play this little tug of war. And then you start and learn the other person's habits and stuff like that away you think they're gonna go and what you think they think he's strong, and all that kind of stuff. And so I like a lot of one v one games, but none of them really, like hit my top list. And so that's it was more around the, the mechanisms of, again, you mentioned abstract games, you know, I played that time you killed me recently. And I played play that which is basically drafts, but across three different boards where you can travel backwards and forwards in time, but it's basically just drafts like it's not, there's no craziness like chess or anything like that. But because it's across three different boards. Yeah. Again, it's about learning what the other player sees and what they don't. And playing off that as you play through several rounds. And that's what I find a lot of these one we won games that I enjoy play across several rounds, and you're learning the opponent as you go. And I think that's just because I played so much chess when I was younger that that's kind of what you do. You learn for sure. If you want a circuit or is that you'll see the same players again and again and you'll start getting into their mindset and then you can start and play the individual more than just the game.

Kerley: 1:03:09

Oh, guys, thanks for that. That'd be pretty much the main section done so moving on. Right, so now it's time for Would You Rather so today's Would You Rather is a little bit of a segway away from normal in the fact is kind of a just a choice between one or two. It's not so much of a discussion point. But hopefully we can turn into something. Here we go. Would you rather lose to someone who's a bad winner or win against someone who's a bad loser? So I'll give you my take on it while you guys think about it. And I might be a little bit biassed in this one. I'd rather lose to someone who's a bad winner mainly because I think I'm a bloody bad winner so therefore I'm a little bit biased but I'd rather lose to someone who's a bad winner because actually I'm more interested in my own performance than I am like apart from Davey I do like smashing them to bits but apart from that David Well that's fine as long as I've got a decent game do you know I mean, I don't mind if Adrian pits me but a couple it's not the end of the world because Adrian don't rub it in you know but and if I lose to JP you know he's the worst He's the worst winner in the world same as me really? We're kind of even pig I swear to God sometimes he runs around the table but I quite like that I think it's quite funny you know it doesn't affect me in the slightest I quite enjoy your your I kind of get into your enjoyment of that moment. You know it's gonna happen

JP: 1:04:45

that's why that's happened.

Kerley: 1:04:47

Yeah, you play yourself down. You do fine. But yeah, so I would rather lose to a bad winner I think than Yeah, beat someone for the joy of beating someone and then be really shirty about it. That's kind of my take on it. What about you guys? So JP What do you reckon?

JP: 1:05:04

Yeah, I mean, when you win against a bad loser, I get it you know my answer live anyone round the table has a shit time means I appreciate time. Yeah. So if I win and the person is just gonna win See if it can diminish the game. Yeah, like the the night in the event right for me. Yeah. So I kind of do well that's kind of taken the wind out of the sails and so it just kind of nullifies the win in my own head even though it hasn't. So I'll probably go for yeah leads to a bad winner because that happens a lot

Tambo: 1:05:46

I think lose to bad winner this what I'm used to so

Kerley: 1:05:53

oh, okay, wheres the violin?

Tambo: 1:05:54

because these two are bad winner or when to a bad winter a bad lose

Kerley: 1:05:58

and win which is great. Yeah, someone's gonna take it real bad. I

Tambo: 1:06:02

think that's okay with me. Okay, it's like suck it up in it. You know, it happens.

Kerley: 1:06:08

See for me. It makes me a little bit uncomfortable when people get shamed, but for you T...

JP: 1:06:14

there's a caveat to my cake, if I'm hosting

Kerley: 1:06:18

Okay.

JP: 1:06:18

I'd rather lose. Okay, but if I'm not hosting Yeah, it's not my event.

Kerley: 1:06:24

Right. Okay, fine. Yeah, well, that works.

JP: 1:06:27

No, because then I'm like, well, not my game. Yeah. Weird. The way my brain works

Kerley: 1:06:32

Yeah.

Tambo: 1:06:34

It'd be kind of whether We'll have a good time when you have your hosting venue. So someone's upset people come in. Not you necessarily but other people.

JP: 1:06:40

Because if I go to Tambo towns for a game night, and then someone else's they're just getting like mad or whatever. just my head. No,

Tambo: 1:06:52

I get it. I get that.

Adrian: 1:06:54

This is really tough. A tough one. Because I know that I get shirty if I feel I haven't played a good game, win or lose. If I've made an obvious mistake. It tilts me like as we were talking before I get in my own head. And then I start to not enjoy the game. And then I don't hide my face. So everyone can see that. That's where I'm at. You make

Kerley: 1:07:17

it obvious that you're annoyed with yourself all the time, though. You're that you don't I would say yes. But you don't project it. Yeah,

Adrian: 1:07:22

I'm hoping. So that's that's but I'm aware that JP hates when that happens around the table. And I feel I feel like I've annoyed JP because he's now annoyed that I've not enjoyed the game when I probably enjoyed the game, I'm annoyed with myself. Because I've not had a great game. And I've said it a few times. And I like I've enjoyed that I had a terrible time. I enjoyed playing the game, but I didn't play good game, and therefore I'm annoyed of myself. So that's kind of like the reflection of me. But which one of those two is tough? Because I think I'm gonna say that I'd rather win and have a bad loser. Probably Probably just from a self reflection point of I'm hoping it's not because they're actually don't like, you know that Oh, I lost grrr. And it's more a case of oh, I didn't have a great didn't have the right setup, I made the mistake or something like that. And that's why because I know I get that. And so it's probably leave putting bit of myself into that person, whereas I'm sure I've beaten and well I'm certain I've beaten bad losers before. Who especially in like Wargaming and stuff like that? Are the dice roll. Terrible? No, you wrote averages, and I can show you how you rolled averages. So don't blame your dice. You made a bad choice and all this kind of stuff, you know, and I'd rather do that because normally I'm like, well, just happens sometimes sometimes the bad thing like that.... odds don't work in your favour or you just make a mistake or whatever. But I think I'd rather be a bad loser.

Kerley: 1:08:47

I think as a group I don't think we've really got any true bad losers a lot about winners, but we've got like we've got we've got we've got some bad winners and I would say I'm up there. I can't take the shit eating grin off my face.

JP: 1:09:02

Grin it's the comments that

Kerley: 1:09:05

let me finish right so sometimes my mouth runs away before you know my brain is engaged. But a lot of the times when you're saying the comments after a win is because I love winding you up you specifically because it's fun. But yeah, I am a bit of a bad winner sometimes it's you know like I said a lot of it is like the stuff just to wind you up is deliberate and I enjoy making you you know, annoyed with me or even pretend annoyed at me. I enjoy that side of it. But the shit eating grin I've got my face of being self satisfied. I'm afraid that is involuntary. I I do my best but just the way it is sometimes I'm afraid

Adrian: 1:09:45

it's tough. But competitive scene and again, I don't like it anymore. But I used to love it. It's quite funny. If you get someone like it's more funny than it is. That was a bad game.

JP: 1:09:57

My first experience of that was at a key forge tournament. I saw it I saw different behind the curtain. I was like oh my god you like like grown adults was fun. Yeah, seriously, this guy was crying. Oh my god. Yeah, he was crying

Kerley: 1:10:15

was that during UKGE Yeah, yeah.

JP: 1:10:17

I mean, you know, you get invested I suppose and I I can't identify with that, because I don't have that competitive mindset. So, you know, I'm like, I'm a bit like that with football. who gives a toss. I don't care who wins. So that's me.

Kerley: 1:10:31

Yeah. Well, there we go. Thanks, guys. That was good. Would you rather than Yeah, good. Well, there we go goes on to the next section. So we're going to do the penultimate turn now. So what are we looking forward to what we got coming up doesn't have to be board games or anything like that. So say, whatever's coming up with your people and making faces at me like I can't think of anything. So, JP, let's start with you.

JP: 1:10:58

Hello. I not going to talk about board games. Okay. Because I don't like them anymore. Oh, he's gone off and gone. Oh, no, no, I'm actually going to talk about it's kind of news. Yeah. And it's kind of what's coming up. So we're gonna have some podcasting news. Because we've got drama, we've got a little drummer, we might not the mic, who knows. We've got a new player joining us in the podcast, but I can't tell you is yet sort of a tease.

Kerley: 1:11:28

Tease it.

JP: 1:11:29

So we've got new players joined. And in the next episode that you do Kerley, and you're kind of final one of your run, that person will be there. And it shouldn't be an act of really shouldn't like as I was trying to make out as if I didn't know what you're talking about. But now you're sure they're in my episode. So they're in your episode, and everybody in the podcast knows already. Yes. You know, and all that secretive. Oh, yeah. So I'm really excited about that. I think it will add another little dimension to us some of the voice to the podcast. Hopefully, you guys will enjoy it. So yeah, definitely. That's my thing.

Kerley: 1:12:01

Thanks for that me some news. Adrian.

Adrian: 1:12:04

Yeah, so I have struggled, but I've come up with one. Smartphone Inc.

JP: 1:12:08

I was too.

Adrian: 1:12:10

I've talked about this for quite a while I think it stayed at the top of my must buy list for a long time. Yeah, it's been a while. But like a good deal come up, or I'll find something secondhand or whatever. And I would just buy something that further down my spy list and it just sat at the top for ages. I've got back from the expo having found nothing in the bring and buy of good value. There's a few very overpriced copies in the bring and buy and nothing a standard that was value, anything that so I literally got back from the expo searched for smartphone inc, and found on a Facebook post someone who said they hadn't sold at the expo and offered them a price. And they sold it to me that was quite a while ago. But finally getting a game of that in really looking forward to it. It's probably from the name, you can guess it's about producing and selling smartphones. But there's some mechanisms in there I've just not seen and there's so you get two cards, and you cover one card up with the other card partially. And what you cover up gives you certain things and what you leave open gives you certain actions and abilities and stuff like that as well. So you're kind of, you're kind of taking these two cards, which are apps on a screen, that's the visual look, but you're using them to cover up things that you want to cover up and try and leave open things you want to leave open. But there'll be different for different people. And of course, sometimes to get the cover up, you'll have to cover up something you wanted. And then you're going out to the market, you're trying to increase or decrease the cost of your phone. And like create 4g or certain type of apps that go on your phone and then sell them to the markets that need them. And people are trying to bump up or bumped down their own prices and your prices to make it harder for you to sell undercut you and stuff like that. So there is a little bit of meanness there. But there's a lot of engine building and creating a unique product, just kind of the smartphone industry, right? It's trying to create two products that are similar but not the same so that they can compete against differentiate. So in different markets and stuff like that. So looking forward to this one for a long time. And I think it's a few weeks away, but I'm actually really hyped to play it.

Kerley: 1:14:22

Cool, man.Thanks for that. Tebone?.

Tambo: 1:14:25

I've got a nice week off and at the beginning of first week in October I'm going down to Bude next week, which would be nice. Walk the dog play lots of games as well.

Kerley: 1:14:33

An old stomping ground for you.

Tambo: 1:14:35

I love you Bude, go every year. Yeah, that'd be good fun. That's pretty much what I look forward to. I think it's nice it's just the way on my gaming table sometime it'll turn up

JP: 1:14:46

any idea?

Tambo: 1:14:46

Well, no, it's it's they're hoping to get the synth wave zero out by the end of it, especially in the last month so they haven't heard nothing. So I'm on wave one.

Kerley: 1:14:53

So you're looking forward to something that is

Tambo: 1:14:55

he's hoping by the end of October, but I don't think it's gonna be before Christmas. Yeah, hopefully hopefully before Christmas. Yeah. Yeah, but the bude week off sounds really good.

Adrian: 1:15:05

You say you play this from games gaming group and look like there

Tambo: 1:15:08

is it just me and my brother. My mum will play A few games she'll play wingspan and others I'd say patchworks is going to be good fun, 2 player games. That Star Wars one and my brothers bringing brass Birmingham but I've never played it. I want to play it, and he's never played it. So I said, Well, we got to do your homework. And yeah, I don't know what its like 2 player because I'll be only me and him playing it, but does it play well with 2?

Adrian: 1:15:29

I personally don't think so. I think it loses too much on two player. And but it is a great learning game two player I learned, I learned it at two player a couple of play throughs and immediately felt like oh, in the rest of the case, you don't have certain trade routes. And while you can use parts of the board, certain cards aren't in there. So you have to use it using the industry cards, which probably won't make sense to you right now. But it will and so it kind of cuts off a large portion of the board at the same time. And there's less chance to Nick other people's coal and iron and stuff like that. So it's a great learner at two player and I think it's great. I would say that it's a much better game, but three or four player

JP: 1:16:09

I've never played it three. I don't think I've ever played it at four unless we played it at four

Adrian: 1:16:13

we've played three but has played a four player as well and three or four plays fantastic. It's a cracking game

Tambo: 1:16:19

he's also bringing star wars rebellion, and we can play a couple games of that and l gave him the expansion with the

JP: 1:16:24

rise of empires the Empire

Tambo: 1:16:26

so I bought from his birthday has been out with him so I can play with that

Adrian: 1:16:28

must have just constantly stare at Hoth. Yeah.

JP: 1:16:33

Grand Strategy, even if you're not there just stare at it

Adrian: 1:16:36

because it's amazing. what that can do to

JP: 1:16:40

just keep pointing that half.

Adrian: 1:16:42

Or just yeah, just doing the sleight of hand that which looks like you've got a hand on your chin and just kind of slightly point a part of the board while you're thinking your turn through. And then oh no, no, hello subliminally

JP: 1:16:53

Endor

Kerley: 1:16:54

Oh, nice one T. Thanks for that. So I'm going to talk about something that is way, way, way, way, way off, potentially. But because I've just done it, I'm going to talk about it. So I have kickstarted Terraforming Mars, Prelude 2. What a shock that is sure

JP: 1:17:09

is it just prelude 2 you've done or have you done all the other bits?

Kerley: 1:17:13

list of exactly what I've got TM prelude 2 which is the two main expansion comes from new cards, new preludes, new corporations, all of the guts all that good stuff. I got seven neoprene mats.

JP: 1:17:33

So you've got the seven have you? You've already got some of these neoprene mats?

Kerley: 1:17:38

Yeah. So I've got some of these official ones, right? Yeah.

JP: 1:17:42

Yeah, they are nice.

Kerley: 1:17:43

So we've caught the replacement for the three originals. So Hellas Elysium and the base one. And then you've got four new ones. But what I found, like three of them are quite different, but just variations really. But there's another one called Amazonia Dam, plant, Plant, plantia

JP: 1:18:05

a big one isn't it?

Kerley: 1:18:06

And that one increases the number of you know, temperature slots that you've got degrees and bigger. Yeah, there's 11 oceans and all that kind of stuff. So yeah. Yeah, map all this kind of stuff.

JP: 1:18:19

It's not it's not Giga or Geiger. Terraforming Mars. No, not

Kerley: 1:18:22

Giga. Like you said. It's the Giga one. I was like, No, this one's about 10%. Big geek is about four times.

JP: 1:18:27

three copies of terraforming Mars. Yeah. As like all the planets in the solar system. Yeah, someone it looks mad.

Kerley: 1:18:34

I mean, I'm not saying I'm not down for it. But yeah, that is an all day job. I think. Yeah.

Adrian: 1:18:39

I actually might be quite interested in playing I. Yeah. turning into a big day spectacle.

Kerley: 1:18:46

would be a big day.

JP: 1:18:47

Yeah,

Adrian: 1:18:48

I think because I've voiced my opinion on the length of terraforming Mars.

JP: 1:18:52

Why not make 8 or nine? Yeah.

Adrian: 1:18:54

Why not? Make it nine hours and make it a big game that you're going to talk about for years?

Kerley: 1:18:59

Again? Yeah, well, I'm definitely down

JP: 1:19:00

for it. Get the mat. You can get it online. I think on Etsy stores you can buy the mat

Kerley: 1:19:08

do the put them together with the existing maps?

JP: 1:19:11

No, I think it's a completely diff I might be wrong. I don't tend to ever check it out. Look at the man you'll go. Oh my god, there'sa lot going on in here.

Kerley: 1:19:19

If we're definitely gonna give it a go. I will probably

Tambo: 1:19:21

have copies of TM to do it though. We need two. you need two?

Kerley: 1:19:29

Dan's got a copy as well. You know, we got other people

Tambo: 1:19:32

I got a copy. But it's not like the 3d tiles thing

JP: 1:19:34

don't matter does it? Long as we know who's is who's.

Kerley: 1:19:39

So yeah, so it's also got and this is the one of the big parts for me actually, is it's got milestones and awards that are totally flexible. So it's not fixed to the map anymore. So you can kind of I don't even know how it works because it didn't make a big difference for me, but it kind of looks like their individual. You can shuffle them all in and see

Adrian: 1:19:58

its what they do with Aries expedition. Yeah, individual ones and you just set up a random.

Kerley: 1:20:03

Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. I think that will justdo what

JP: 1:20:06

weirdly talked about on the Terraforming Mars episode. That wouldn't be good. Yeah. Ifif they did that

Kerley: 1:20:12

Yeah. And then they've just announced this last week, a couple of days ago and yeah, it's got that in it. So really chuffed about that. That's looking forward to that side of it. If the rest of it is mostly just like, you know, I got to be honest it, it's just bling. Basically, we've got more more 3d printed tiles because of the bigger map because of the bigger map. So that's cool. We've got more promos for this year. So 2023 promos, but it's also got 20. I want to say 2020 21,22. promos as well, which I've already got that project deck is not thick enough. Yeah, this is it. I find these to be a little bit bigger. But I've already got those. So I don't know what I'm gonna do with those. But yeah, there we are, and sleeves for all of it, basically. And that's that's pretty much it. Oh, and the automa as well, which doesn't particularly appealed to me, but it was about $15 Extra. And I thought well, you know, I'd rather have it than not

JP: 1:21:02

design, isn't it? And someone else said, Well, yeah,

Kerley: 1:21:05

it looks a lot better than the original games. Single Player. So I'm looking forward to it. Well, you know, I would never rule it out. I'm not by the way. I'm not a solo guy, as anyone who's a regular listener would know JP as more down that road. But I'd be interested to give it a go if I get along with it. And then awesome. But if I don't, then it might be just something that I could give away to a mate or something like that. Who

Adrian: 1:21:28

said that's not what I ever imagined. You'll get rid of it. But if it was to,

JP: 1:21:33

yeah, you're all in. You're like me and bones. You're all in anyway.

Kerley: 1:21:37

Yeah. So I'll make honestly I just scrolled right past the ones on the early the beginning part. On the bottom one. Yeah, I'm having that. It's like, Do you know what I mean? something you're really passionate about this in your life board Gaming is my main interest. And that is like touch and go. It's like it's always been top three. And now you could even argue overall, it's probably number one. So for something big to come out with loads of stuff. That looks cool. It's just like instantly it's like yeah, I don't care what else I've got. I'll pay for that is happening. Wait, a final term is wrapping up and victory points are about to be scored. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you've enjoyed the show, please like subscribe and review on your podcast player of choice. And we asked to share the podcast with at least one person who you think might enjoy this get in contact with the show on our socials. All right, we've got all the main socials covered so email by all means Facebook insta, tik tok BoardGameGeek now and we have got an account on threads as well whatever they were whatever that is, but just you know, hey, let interact with the episode you know, are there any ones the ones that you really like? Or do tell us some of your favourites any experiences you've had maybe with a bad winner or a bad loser that we find interesting?

Adrian: 1:22:47

Maybe you know the cheat of how to look at a card on the BGA yeah

Kerley: 1:22:53

please tell me you know, I've tried holding it down I've tried clicking on it. I can't even you know when you've played a card previously if it's not the one on the top of the pile cannot work out to look at that card behind it you know, so

JP: 1:23:03

if you've got some tips yeah BGA mobile tips for Kerley.

Kerley: 1:23:06

Yes, please. Iwill take it very gratefully. But yeah, so we're going to be back in two weeks with another episode so until then.