Kerley: 0:36

Welcome to Whose turn is it anyay, a podcast is all about our gaming group and of course board games. I'm Kerley, breaking his virginity as first player. Hey, and I'm joined by the other players. Tambo, Becky Hey, and JP, hello. How is everyone?

JP: 0:51

Ready? Good. Wide fired. And ready to go. I'm on holiday tomorrow. Yeah,

Kerley: 0:56

I was gonna say ready to go ready.

JP: 0:58

I've literally with the suitcases are packed. Ready. Tomorrow we go. Nice. So I think I mentioned a couple of episodes ago, maybe not holidays coming. And it's literally here although, at the time this episode is is released. I would have come back and gone waaah.

Becky: 1:14

When you listen to it again. You remember

JP: 1:17

The work is finished work was done Friday. That's always a good feeling to and a bit weeks off work.

Kerley: 1:23

You're going to be depressed about doing this editing when you get back. Yeah,

JP: 1:26

Yeah. So JP, if this is for you. Don't be depressed. Remember, remember the holiday was amazing. Hopefully. Yeah. All right.

Becky: 1:36

Well, I got over my COVID. So that was nice. So yeah, in the last episode I was'oh ive got a bit of a cold, and I didn't have a cold I had COVID So that was fun. Yeah, I got a really nice week at work, which has been really good. Um, yeah, I'm feeling really good.

Kerley: 1:49

Sorry. Thanks, people.

Tambo: 1:51

I'm just tired. Sunday for me. Busy lunch.

Kerley: 1:54

Yeah, Sunday's a rough day for you

Tambo: 1:57

Plus lots of golfers today as well as probably a bad day to do it. I hope Yeah, you get you'll get

Becky: 2:05

Excited energy. Energy.

JP: 2:08

I'll bring you up T

Becky: 2:13

be so excited. You can feel the friction of excitement. Honestly. He's like a little ball of energy.

JP: 2:19

Little puppy.

Kerley: 2:21

So anyone with any news?

JP: 2:22

Yeah, I've got some news. I wanted to do a big shout out to I got two, Yeah bought the I built a zoo. Ark Nova. It's got Matthew from shirts and merch. So Matthew was a chap that I met and I think few of us met at the 24 hour boardgame marathon event. And he had a store where he basically was selling some really cool board game related T shirts, hence the name shirts and merch. And it's not just you know, a bog standard t shirt that has that the game the board game name on it, per se, they're they're really cleverly done or that like for example, there's like a twilight Imperium for one and it looks to me it's like a kind of a mix of the TI 4 lettering and a Nirvana t shirt. And I picked one up which is a an Anachrony t shirt, which is the the weird symbol. I don't know what it is. But this is cinda of Ark Nova colours and logo in the centre. Yeah. And I symbol. Triangle cube looks like an Escher painting kind of thing. But yeah, it's a triangle 3d design thing, but anyone who knows Anachrony will know what I'm talking about hopefully, I've got one of those. And he had loads of different ones. I think you'd pick one of them. got like a big heart which is covered like made up of little meeples. Nice. Yeah, so it's like a like a stealth geek. You'd have to be in the know to know what that was about. Yeah, and I think that's the kind of thing it's that they're subtle, but if you're in the hobby, you'll you'll just pick it up straight away and you're not you won't be like what? Yeah, it's not immediately obvious. Is it so? Yeah, it's wanted to give a shout out and Matthew also we'll have a Kickstarter obviously by the time we're recording I don't think I have the link yet but we will have the link and I will put it in the show notes so you can go and check out all the information and we'll put his details in the show notes as well. Yeah, so you can literally check it out because stuff

Kerley: 4:12

Right most an hour you guys are doing and what you're looking forward to and all the news so with that let's move on to the next section and that's part of the podcast is our let's talk about hex segment. So guys, what have you been up to what you've been playing? JP start us off please.

JP: 4:33

Well, before I jump in, yeah, go on and say your first player mate which is really good to see. Oh, this is the first time you doing it. Right? He's been on how many episodes loads of the Oh, absolutely. Loads. Yeah,

Kerley: 4:46

I'd say probably about half. Yeah, I've

JP: 4:47

Been on quite a good chunk. Yeah. And, and you're here doing it. And I'm just gonna say well done. Thanks. You know, it takes a bit of a little bit of like prep and organisation

Kerley: 4:58

A bit of prep organisation, but thinking about the pressure, a little bit of pressure is kind of linked a little bit to my job. So it's not too bad once I'm sure I'll be used to.

JP: 5:07

Yeah, now I'll just say well done for stepping up. Now. I'm looking forward to your episodes and the topics that are coming. But anyway, game design, talk about games.

Kerley: 5:15

Let's talk about games.

JP: 5:15

I'm going to talk about game I talked about in episode 32. So are a few episodes ago, which is Voidfall. And anything Oh, JP really talks about that, like I know. But at the time I talked about my first impressions of the game having played the tutorial, and I think that was it. And now I've played it four times. And haven't even played my copy here.

Kerley: 5:39

And it's barely even out yet. It's just literally just

JP: 5:44

This week it landed in my house on Tuesday is now Sunday, I think about what it is. And I only unboxed it yesterday. But I've been playing, played on Tabletop Simulator once and that played on the gaming world stream a couple of times. And I just wanted to kind of circle back round. And just talk about my experiences now about four plays in case people find that interesting rather than first impressions. You know, a lot of people are always first impressions and they get really hyped up and maybe things might have changed as you play more.

Kerley: 6:16

I haven't played it yet. But I do wonder how much of the excitement around it is hype, because it's been the first Mindclash. That's kind of traditional Mindclash for a little while.

JP: 6:23

Yeah. I mean, for me, having played it four times. I mean, spoiler alert, I love it. But I, it's one of those games that you kind of keep thinking about, do you know when you play a game, and it just sits in your brain and even when you're not playing it, you're going, Oh, I wonder if I could do that on this, I could go down and, and you just rattling all of these strategies and things in your head. And I think when a game is doing now when you're not playing it, like for hours and you keep thinking about it, it's a good sign for me that's like a hallmark of this is something really interesting

Kerley: 6:59

First game to review I ever watched was shut up and sit downs version of War of the Ring. Yeah. And they said, actually, they didn't particularly like the game. But after a day, they were like thinking about it a lot of what could I've done, and then they kept going they couldn't get them out. And then they were planning again the next week, and then it's turned into one of their favourites. Yeah, it's probably not maintained that because, you know, it's five, six years from you. But you know, they said that is a hallmark of a good game if you just can't get it out your head. Yeah,

Becky: 7:24

That's a hallmark of any kind of good media such as a film or books specifically for me, if I'm reading a book, and then like, you know, the, the times I can't be reading it when I'm doing something else, I'm thinking about the characters, what's going to happen, motivation for stuff. And for me, that's like just a really the mark of something that's, you really enjoy. Yeah,

JP: 7:41

I had a reservation after I played the tutorial, and probably my second game. I'll circle back on that in a minute. Because it's quite an important point. I think many people might have the same reservations when you first get into it. But just for those that don't know, Voidfall is I would kind of say, go back to our old episode, I do do a kind of overview of what the game is, but in a very, very short summary. It's kind of a It's the one that you said, kind of had like worker placement and it's a heavy, you know, 4.5 out of five games Becky, need not apply here. Just check me out. It's a heavy, heavy boy. Mindclash games, obviously produced developed, it is designed actually, the majority of the design is done by Nigel Buckle, and David Turczi has kind of helped assist on the design. And Nigel. I didn't realise this, but I kind of researched it a little bit. Nigel previously designed a game called Omega Centauri. And I think David Turczi calls it the greatest 4X game that no one has ever played. So it's kind of an older game, it doesn't obviously have their Mindclash polish, the production levels that are in there, but the fundamentals of the Omega Centauri has been basically ported into Voidfall in this design. So that's quite nice to see. So yeah, something that's kind of an older kind of game has been freshened up and giving the mind class treatment and entering into 2023. So that's, I thought that was quite interesting. But in terms of the kind of game flow, which I didn't really get into too much on the last episode, the game kind of flows into, you know, three cycles, and after dimension, it's like a 4x style game. So again, you're gonna get comments of Eclipse and Twilight Imperium, you're just gonna get it. It's nothing like any of them. It doesn't play like anything plays like a Euro game. other kinds of aspects

Kerley: 9:32

No. So that was Ascendancy. Okay. Yeah. Which No, I'm gonna talk about later on. Yes,

JP: 9:37

This is more space.

Becky: 9:41

My brian probably switched off, Space 4x, 4.5 bye

JP: 9:46

Yeah, I've had enough. But no kind of game flows broken down into three cycles. And each cycle has like a galactic event that will kind of dictate what's going to happen. So at the start of that event, you might be getting some benefits, you might get corruption, because the whole thing is around this like void borns like this ancient alien species virus thing that's been affecting the entire galaxy in a corrupted a lot of the houses and civilizations that are across the galaxy. So this thing is ever kind of present on the map. You're always fighting against If you've kind of abandoned sectors and systems that will just creep back in, so you've got to keep, like attacking it and sorting out and it will constantly put you under threat and that kind of thing. But the main thing I wanted to kind of talk about is the game is all in these nine focus cards, right. So it's a card driven, kind of action selection mechanism in the game, you'll have this hand of cards, and again, typical mind clash, each card has three actions on it. So you know, you've got nine cards, three actions, 27 actions. They're all shared actions across the cards. So it's not 27 decision spaces, but kind of the focus cards will have a primary purpose. But the other actions on there might appear in other cards, so they're very blended. So for example, if you want to fight and do conquesting, conquest is your main way of doing it. But in politics, it's on there as well. So it's kind of, you know, if you want to go militaristic, you can if you want to go more economic, you can, things like that, and like the game reminds me weirdly, even nothing like it reminds me to carry on in that you're you've got your cards, and you're trying to sequence the cards and actions and what you're trying to do. So if you know cycle one is five, focus cards long, because it tells you you got five cards to play, or six or whatever. You're going right, play that one first, then that one, and then that one, and then that one, and then that one, you don't have to programme it like to carry on where you make the decision and lock it all in. And then I'll know I've cocked up and the whole round is gone. You have to have a bit of a plan. Yeah, you should be thinking well do that. And then links to that and then do then you can pivot if something goes different or wrong. I like that. And again, your whole came your head is buried in these clouds. And you're like, I don't get this and I want to do that. I could do that. I could do that. And and again, it's just typical Mindclash. If you hate heavy games, stay away from this. Yeah, I would advise is it's probably their heaviest. Definitely one. I'll be watching a video. Yes. And I hear Paul, Paul Grogan is one of gaming rules is pretty good. Yeah, he's done one. It's an hour long. But it's thorough.

Kerley: 12:28

Yeah, I get asked to be like, Don't sloppy,

JP: 12:30

You can't teach this game. Like in 10 minutes. You just can't do that.

Becky: 12:36

It sounds like when you were saying your head is buried in these cards. Does that mean that what other people do isn't affecting? Or is that where you need to change your little

JP: 12:44

Great point, because this kind of circles back to what I mentioned at the beginning, which is my worry for the game was that it's quite insular. And I'm just doing my own thing. And Thanks for give me a bit of an idea I don't know much about it. you can't really interact with me too much. Yeah, but you, you can have scenarios, which are, you know what, I don't want war, I don't want the war. Because I hate the war bit. And I don't want you to come in and really give me a kick in, you can play that kind of peaceful scenario. So all you're doing is engine building, you know, good old fashioned euro and just beating up the void. So you might be playing solo and comparing scores at the end. Yeah, you can do that. Or you can have ones where there's a bit of aggression, and now where you can get in people's way, and you can attack them and you can do those things. Again, being attacked is not the end of the world. It's just gonna hamper what you do. So what I wanted to mention is my fear for the game was that it didn't have enough interaction with the other players, until I played this three player play through on the game of rules channel with Paul and Stephen. Shout out to Stephen. And oh my god, like, I just absolutely it all kicked off that game. And it showed a different side of the game that showed kind of how powerful certain ship types are. And Paul upgraded to these destroyers. And he just went on a rampage around the map. And he was just abandoning sectors, he came into my area and he's lucky because I was literally about to give him a kick in the next turn. presented it and yeah, he basically took one of my sectors because my empire was quite tall so I didn't have many sectors but it was a lot of population lot of engine in a small space. His was very wide, spread out, his threat spread very thin. So I was hoping to knock him back there. So it was quite good to see a game where it was very different to the others that I played, and you can lean in various different ways. Anyway, that's I'm gushing over it because I'm loving it. And I want to play it right now. And I can't because there's always episodes named to the Voidfall session. Yeah, Voidfall episode, but now I probably should shut up and let other people talk. Yeah, from my passion. I'll probably love it. I hope you do I say playing solo so that's good.

Kerley: 15:07

Yes. All by yourself. Maybe we've been up to keep up.

Tambo: 15:10

So I've been we've I've mentioned the game we played on Friday night, which was Twilight Imperium? Yeah, let's bring this one up. Another 4x Number four. Yeah, yeah, that was really really, really fun. I enjoyed it. It's been a while since I played since I played anyway yeah So Jay dropped out looking like it hopping which was very nice for him thanks Jay I think

Kerley: 15:29

He didn't have any choice

Tambo: 15:31

Yeah so we are played a race called I would try and pronounce it but check a kingdom base titles based on the kind of the peacekeeping people I think

Becky: 15:44

That's not like you you're normally going there do a bit of stuff you said

JP: 15:47

He was peacekeeping but you know, those are dreadnoughts and he was like yeah I'm keeping the peace guys keeping the peace

Tambo: 15:53

Defensive reasons

Becky: 15:55

I see

Tambo: 15:57

A bit of research for the game when I saw that some information just head for better or max and try and keep it and then you get to do with the agenda thing and then all the politics side effects either very powerful and the politics and yeah, so I did that and it actually paid off for once. Who won Kerley?

Kerley: 16:15

I don't know mate

Tambo: 16:19

I don't normally normally be here so

Kerley: 16:22

You can announce your own victory Tambo

Becky: 16:26

Tambo gets to wear the king crown for TI until the next game because

Tambo: 16:31

The last time I played TI, I won as well. Oh, play as often as everyone else when records work

Kerley: 16:37

TI crown, has anyone got a felt tip. Yeah. Like a crown?

JP: 16:45

Maybe a member? Yeah.

Tambo: 16:47

We don't. We played it's 4 player, which was very quite nice, wasn't it? It's very peaceful getting to be fair, that's why we only had the one big scrap it. Yeah. And that was it between me and it was

Kerley: 16:54

For the most part, there was a few little details. I think JP was the first one a little dig.

JP: 17:00

So I had lot of secret objectives that were kind of saying like, you know, get your chips next to someone's home sector and anyone does that. Like no one's gonna like that. And then it was like, oh, when a when a file and destroy one of the chips or something with that. Yeah, we're in a fight that you had a promissory note of that other player. And literally, I just played a card they got everyone's permissibly notes into my hand and t just had one fighter just I can't ignore you like you're dangling this little carrot go and come and get it and when I got it when I got it, so we had like lots of like strategic little poke, little skirmishes to get victory points and me grovelling going. T this is not an act of aggression. This is not an act of war promise. Just you know,

Kerley: 17:46

Tambo was not weak at the time either

JP: 17:49

You were pretty good, because I thought he'd just come at me in full force. But I think you knew having a plan anyway. You had, obviously Martin on the other side of the board, who's armed to the teeth, and you had Kerley pretty much shoring himself up or across all the asteroid belts because your plan, right? Yeah. Loved and, yeah. Ready to strike at any opportune moment? And, yeah, so if you'd put your attention on me, I think you would have left yourself exposed and one of these two warmongers would have have. Yes.

Becky: 18:18

You can't see this, but they're all like got these big grins on their faces. Like they're talking about, you know, member when you're 21 Only just remember that when you go out the night before with maybe work friends, and then you come into work, and you'd be going through all the kinds of shenanigans you got up to the night before that when this happened when that happened. That's what they all look like. It is and I just, I mean, I don't like well, I don't like it. I've never played it. I've never played TI but it absolutely does not appeal to me. Space, bored. But just watching all three of you, like reminisce about this game when I know clearly you really were not in the mood for it, you were super knackered, you'd been stuck in an awful traffic queue for like two and a half hours early that day. You were super tired. And you were like dragging yourselves.

Kerley: 19:02

Forced to do a team building exercise or work or Blimey, I was all done. But

Becky: 19:11

You still went and looking looking all through if you know you had such a good time, and I can't say it makes me want to play the game because that's going too far. But I can see why you guys like it because I can see how sort of it's fun for you guys to sort of sit there talking about the little things that happened. And that's a really nice thing about board games and event games

JP: 19:30

There are certain games in collection T.I. being one of them. We talked about them in many episodes like Game of Thrones and others but it's just as an event game so it kind of just builds you know, you build your day although we played on a Friday evening, which was you know, interesting to me. I'm finished it was 2am finish. So it was a late one but it didn't it this time just pass

Kerley: 19:50

You get invested as you get invested in your own personal little narrative. And that's what Yeah,

Becky: 19:56

I can see that through all three of you and it's really nice to see Yeah,

Tambo: 20:00

I have a new Arch Nemesis now. Martin Martin and he paid actually got that stopped my action card and I thought what's that come from? It's like he did it

Kerley: 20:08

To be fair, he did it just because he could

Tambo: 20:11

Yeah, that's about it. I still, you know,

Kerley: 20:14

To be fair for for those of you who've played to him before he played sabotage on him which basically says no, no, no I had that card but it left me that card so that I could use it later on and basically so yeah one of them but it was good to win it because we had that last fight at the end like you were saying last fight at the end that probably decided if I had won it on the attack, I'd probably won and you did win because I couldn't quite do it

JP: 20:38

You can invade and take over, so yeah, it was an epic finish it was quite nice to get to that conclusion whereas like right it all comes down to this moment. me versus you were both on eight points like this happens and this happens then that's it

Tambo: 20:54

I also have an action card that kept the other two agendas which actually mean that destroy JP and that killed strategic strategy cards

JP: 21:04

Because I was playing there no collective so I always have initiative zero which means I always score first I always go first and I love that fashion is brilliant. And I've kind of like space which he kind of people and yeah, I thought I thought I can get that Imperium strategy card back and I can get that played and hope and a lot of mine when was based on chance on the next objective be something I could do is if I could do I would just want on the first turn but turned over now so I'm in government so it's between you two. Yeah. Great guy. Yeah. Great fun for player really enjoyed it. Yeah. Bigger slices on the map.

Kerley: 21:42

I think that's my preference now.

JP: 21:44

Yeah, I I wished it was a bit quicker.

Kerley: 21:48

I think that will come with time. Yeah. Been a while since we play. It's been a while since couple of people played it. And yeah, you know,

JP: 21:55

It's good. Yeah. Loved it.

Kerley: 21:58

How about you, Becky?

Becky: 21:59

Um, I've been playing lots of Crokinole, as you know, because I've been playing mostly against you. Yeah, I got the crokinole board down to actually show Kerley's brother who's getting into woodworking and I was like well if you could make some Crokinole boards you could be in the money because they're selling for a lot of money at the minute. Yeah. And that just kind of stayed on the dining room table since then. So in every kind of sort of 20 minute half an hour little gap we've had we've just been playing a round of crokinole Nice. Yeah, it's been really fun. I'd forgotten how much I like it. I've forgotten how much I like just so

JP: 22:29

Chill isn't it

Becky: 22:30

Is well it is but you can, we've been playing the not tournament scoring so the kind of first to 100 and we've been staying pretty level with each that mean I think we've probably both got about similar amount of wins or losses I don't know probably three or two Yeah. But it's not been like an absolute drubbing, it's been you know 20/30 45/50 ou know it's been stayed quite level which is quite nice. I've really enjoyed it.

Kerley: 22:56

I haven't played for a long time so it's nice to

JP: 22:58

Have you not fancied getting that Crokinole Imperium about this you know heard about it Imperium you get Yeah, basically you put all the dreadnoughts now you it's a deck of cards you can get and it turns the game of Crokinole inside I don't know what it turns it into but it kind of gives you challenges and actions and it kind of just adds another layer to crokinole and I'm not quite sure specifically what it is so listeners let us know if you if you have the Crokinole impairment I think it's called and then I'll find out after the recording it's not called that if not I will correct yourself in the shownotes but yeah, I keep meaning to mention it because it looked quite fun like this twist on the game yeah, yeah give me something

Kerley: 23:48

Certainly if you if you've played it so much one v one that you've had a bit of variation. I don't think we're at that point yet but it might be something if we leave it downstairs and still enjoy it in a couple of months time

Becky: 23:58

I'm scared that I'll see the cat sleeping on it though.

Kerley: 24:02

Well that will happen Yeah,

Becky: 24:03

We have been put in the box back over the top of it just for like protective reason

JP: 24:07

Watching the cat scratching the Tracy board.

Becky: 24:11

No it's not the Tracy board, it's the woodestic one but still so, that one at the minute is about £400 quid.

JP: 24:17

What the Tracy board?

Becky: 24:17

I think the Woodestic and I may have got this completely wrong, but maybe I should check that before I said it. But

JP: 24:25

If it's wrong this won't make it in the episode

Kerley: 24:30

What makes me laugh about that Tracy board is like we never played with it. It's like the Queen's finest crockery. Queens finest Crokinole. Yeah, it's we just don't play with it. If me and Becky when Becky owns it and I'm a husband don't play with it, what's the point

Becky: 24:46

Well the reason I bought the other one downstairs because the woodestic one looks more like something that someone who's doing woodwork could make because it's it's solid wood rather than any kind of weird surface Because she doesn't trust me with it. No, that's not the I only play that on my own. reason

JP: 25:00

She waits for you to go to work and she's like 'I get my Tracy board out!'

Kerley: 25:08

Once you start saying my precious

Becky: 25:10

Yeah 400 pounds. Wow. 400 pounds for a woodestic one

JP: 25:14

They've gone up then.

Becky: 25:16

Yeah, they definitely weren't that much when I bought it about half that price.

JP: 25:20

Yeah, easy, well there you go

Kerley: 25:22

Right. And so, yeah, me what have I been doing? So boardgame wise, I want to pick out Perseverance episode two. And I've played Perseverance Episode One loads. I played Episode Two quite a few times, but I haven't played it in about six months or more. And yeah, I really missed it. So I jumped in on this one. And yeah, I just love that blooming game. But it's really is in the in the top few for me. I know. You know, I always think everything's top three. But when I look at it, it's an easy top 10 It's an Easy top 10 It's just so much fun. I love Persevering episode one, but it just takes everything from episode one and just makes it better, in my opinion, great. Like, for those of you have played it for I know, we did a bit of an episode where we've talked about it. So I'm not gonna go into detail. But essentially, the the variation that you get in episode two from being able to make your own leaders and characters and level them up how you want just makes the game for me. Otherwise, I think it's actually quite a similar game, you know, to Episode One, but just that one variation changed his whole whole game. So yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed that. Yeah, great to get that played, especially because Episode Three is not too far away,

JP: 26:32

Being demo'd at Gen Con recently. And I think we will get a demo of Episode Three at Grid Con this year. Oh, that's good. It's coming, I believe. So he'll be demoing as well, right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, that'd be before when it Oh, 100 percent. Yes. And so I think that'll be my number one thing to do, I think. Well, yeah, I'll go with you. Yeah. So I'll definitely try to try to get on that. Yeah,

Kerley: 27:00

There's a few purchases or one from Essen but that's one of the ones I want to actually demo if I can.

JP: 27:04

Yeah, Dino Riders all I'm saying Yeah.

Kerley: 27:09

I saw one bit where they were flipping them over. There's like a double counter where you could flick on the other and I'm just wondering what that was about when this T rex is involved as well. No, I mean, you know, what could be better? I'm actually I really liked dinosaur games. I don't even know why. I think it must be like, back in the day or something.

JP: 27:30

It's like, doesn't it make you feel like a kid?

Kerley: 27:32

It does a little bit. Yeah,

JP: 27:33

I get taken back to Lost Valley of the dinosaurs by Waddingtons

Kerley: 27:36

I mean, honestly, I love that game with the lava going down. Yeah. Yeah, it was brilliant. Yeah,

Becky: 27:41

I feel sad that I missed out on that.

JP: 27:44

I mean, if we played an hour, we'll probably be disappointed but it sits in a special place in my heart.

Kerley: 27:52

Yeah. And yeah, I've been really into dinosaur games lately. There was a Dino Island. Yeah. Jay's got, is it Dino World isn't Dinosaur World. Dinosaur World. He won at the raffle and I'm interested give that a go. I bought Dinogenics at the Bring and buy

JP: 28:07

Oh, you did

Becky: 28:14

Really think about the fact we have such a lot of dinosaur games in the collection?

Kerley: 28:17

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I've only got two or three. But you know, I have if they just say the theme add something for me. And there's actually not very many themes I'm really that bothered about I'm more interested in the game. So usually, but yeah, definitely. Dinosaurs is one that just makes me more interested in in a cool thing. Yeah. So yeah, looking forward to getting that to the table and loved episode two of perseverance. And for to number three. Yeah, so I guess

JP: 28:44

There'll be four when they reveal it. Because they'll come three and four come together

Kerley: 28:48

Think it's coming to game found in the autumn or you definitely get it I'm assuming Yeah. Yeah. Because it's I'm just trying to work out I don't think I'm ever allowed from a my favourite games because it just I cannot get past a logical bumper in the road of kind of like, I don't need it because the guy I always play games with, but it's just so much to

JP: 29:07

Because I've got episode one and two, three and four is like why?

Kerley: 29:11

Yeah, I almost wish I'd won the copy of Perseverance episode one or two in the raffle? Because I couldn't justify buying it myself, but if I won it, I wouldn't get rid of it. I would get probably. Yeah, so yeah. But there we go. Right, moving on to our main event, which this week is super middleweight. Interesting. So I just wanted to kind of introduce this section by saying that it's highly subjective. You know, what is a middle weight game is highly subjective. So if you disagree with some of our points, you're right. If you agree with some of our points, you're also right. Right, it's just one of them. That is just down to opinion. So this is just we are going to talk about our opinions, have a little bit of a chat about them, sort of talked about our favourites, things like that. And hopefully you enjoy it but get involved in the comments and everything else. Tell us your favourite middleweight games, you know,

Becky: 30:13

you're going to start this by going in the red corner

Kerley: 30:18

That's bullseye

Becky: 30:20

You made it sound like bullseye

JP: 30:27

love it.

Kerley: 30:28

I will also say at that point with the introduction of it is that not all games in my opinion fit into like middleweight, heavyweight, lightweight games. There are some games and I was trying to think about okay, so what kind of games don't I think fits for an example I was looking at, like a game like Nemesis, for example. I don't think I think it's more than actually horror co-op, I'm not really sure it fits easily into any of those because you can argue probably, that it could fit a little bit into all of them. So there are some games that don't easily fit. So it's kind of a lazy, and also lazy because I find it useful, but it is kind of a weird terminology that has become accepted.

JP: 31:05

I think when when I hear midweight, I kind of think Euro, yes. So midweight euro, but

Kerley: 31:10

I've also heard of it being referred to in the other subtypes as well. Yeah,

JP: 31:14

It's because complexity rating is most of all games, isn't it? So whilst Nemesis probably sits in the middle somewhere, I wouldn't weirdly class it as a mid weight game. And

Kerley: 31:25

That's exactly what I thought. But I was trying to work out why I thought that if it makes sense to take on that one as well. So I'm gonna go through it. I've made up some questions, and I just want to get your guys take on it really. So I'm going to kind of go around, I'll try and mix them up a little bit. But Becky, what is a midweight game to you?

Becky: 31:46

One that I enjoy. To be honest. I don't really like games where the choice, the amount of choices becomes detrimental to my, to the flow of playing the game. So when you've got something like, well, any of the Mindclash games you've been talking about, or to be honest, most kinds of games are the complexity over probably three and a half, according to BoardGameGeek. Let's just say, when you've got so many choices, I get, I can't say analysis paralysis, because I'm trying to do I almost just get I don't I lose care. But I just think it's fun leaches out because all I could do this and that will do that. Or I could go down this road. And that mean, I don't want too many choices. But that's why I don't like really complicate computer games. either. I like a little platform, you go left or right.

Kerley: 32:36

I'll flip around them and say, Okay, I know you like some lightweight games. But why then do you prefer midway over a lightweight? What is it?

Becky: 32:44

I think if you do well, and that doesn't necessarily mean winning. But if you do well, you can feel quite proud of your achievement. Because you can feel like, yeah, you know what, I made a good decision or series of decisions, I weighed up the options, and I worked out the maybe not probability or but whatever, I kind of worked out a strategy that was successful. I mean, that likes it that may not then translate to actually winning enough points to beat another person. But I've become less bothered by that in sort of later years. And it's more about Did I do the game? Well,

Kerley: 33:18

So is it fair to say then you're almost your definition of a midway game is a game that's challenging, but not so complicated that it gives you some version of AP

Becky: 33:27

Exactly. Sometimes it's challenging. It's still gonna be fun. But I think part of the fun for me comes from deciding what is the best thing to do and finding a good strategy.

Kerley: 33:41

Interesting, how about you, JP,

JP: 33:43

Yeah, I think it's similar. For me. It's simple. ruleset deep gameplay.

Kerley: 33:48

Oh, we got a question about that later on, as well keep going. Yeah, but

JP: 33:51

So it's the fact that the rules aren't overly complex, it's not gonna take you an hour to really learn what the hell's going on, you can pretty much approach the game and go right and obviously, we play a lot of Midweight euros. So like, every new midweight Euro gets introduced, or like, we just take to it, for obvious reasons. But as Becky said, it's not having 30 decisions or actions on the table in front of you on which one you want to pick. It's probably like, you know, on the smaller side, but that doesn't mean that the gameplay is shallow, it means that the way that the game is designed, there's enough crunch in there to let that I think it's similar. It's to give you, you know, like, make you feel smart. You know, like, I've worked this out, and I feel clever, and I've built something I've done something and yeah, and I think midwives are kind of special I think in that respect. Now I agree. Because they usually say, kind of game lamps around two hours. Yeah. Usually two to three. Yeah, two to three, depending on I mean, the ones we play. But yeah, how long I want to play a game for Yeah, yeah. And it's it gets you brain thinking enough to feel like you've played a board game. And, you know, and obviously, some of the light ones that are there for fun. Don't get me wrong, there was some lightweight games that kind of gives you that satisfaction as well. So it's not, you know, broad strokes and all of that. But yeah, I'd say it's that simple rule set, but rich gameplay. Yeah, that for me is what I really enjoy.

Kerley: 35:17

I mean, I haven't got too much on there, but I think accessiblity is a big one for me, which kind of you guys have touched on anyway. But that's the difference between that and a heavyweight game, for example, I'd be happy to teach a middleweight. I think when it gets to heavy weights, there is some responsibility on the individuals coming for them to have a bit of an idea. Yeah, so that's the kind of where my benchmark is, if I'm happy to teach it, where the people don't know it at all, it's probably a midweight game. Just because for the most part, by the time you finish our teach was time, half, eight, nine o'clock, you know, by the time you've probably finished that teachers just not workable a lot of the time. And yeah, but some, some mechanics. So you know, whereas just that little level up into, you know, and a lot of that has got to do with, I think it helps introduce people to other parts of the hobby as well more heavier games, just because it's, you know, it's got worker placement, but there's not a million choices. And now you're introduced workerplacement. And so when you do get more choices, at least you've got a bit of a foundational knowledge, you know, so that's a midway for me, it's a written a really useful tool to get people into heavies as well. I will say mid weights are probably my favourite of all of them. So if you're excepting Mindclash, yeah, really isn't every way that I just absolutely love. But yeah, Midweights is where you know, but they're also a really useful vehicle. Tambo?

Tambo: 36:39

well, my definition of a midweight is, or like a heavyweight. So heavyweight to me is if you've got a look at what someone else is doing, yeah, then you got to think ahead of your turns as well. You've got cards in your hand, and you've got to put spaces on boards, and they do various actions. We've got all them and once that, to me is a heavy, heavy game. I like that. So if you've just got a worker placement and some cars behind that, that stuff, yeah. And then that's pretty much your turn. And you don't have to worry about too much, or people that people are doing just apart from what you put in the meeples or doing something like that. That to me is a midweight game midweight game. And the length is important as well, I think as well. Yeah, so like say two and a half hours, two hours. Heavy game, you expect more, but a midweight is kind of that there's not too much going on, you've only got actions on your card, you pay for something, you're not thinking about someone else's turn, or you do want action and of action goes off and outside of a board. That kind of that's my opinion of a medium weight game. Yeah,

Kerley: 37:32

That's really good.

Becky: 37:33

I really liked that, too. I really liked how you and I think that's exactly honed in on what I don't like about heavier games, that having to concern yourself with what someone else is doing. On their little Yes, spinning plates as JP says. Doing the little little mind then it's absolutely right. I just can't be bothered to think about all those things all at once I just that becomes work then for me. And I'm not interested. Yeah. So I think yeah, too. You've hit the nail, absolutely on the head there when you're considering your stuff. And yeah, you're interacting with people that you've not got to predict their stuff. And you've not going to look at their plan. So you don't

Tambo: 38:04

Have to think too far ahead. Yeah.

JP: 38:06

Next time. See, I would say because you have less plates to spin, you maybe have more brain space to observe other play. By in a heavy game, I'm just going to avoid for right, the little moments in that game where I just couldn't think of anything else other than looking at those cards and go How the hell am I gonna get

Kerley: 38:24

This situation is coming back around to you. And you've got no idea everyone else's.

JP: 38:28

So yeah, whether we're midway, you kind of already know what you're going to do. You've already figured out your path, you're there and you're just waiting for the turns come around. And then because you've already processed the brainpower and selecting your action, yeah, you can look over and go, what's currently doing and what he's been given. How do we change? Why do or do I keep what you know? So you can get more of those? That's my opinion. But, but I get, I get what you're saying?

Kerley: 38:53

No, that's so they honestly, I never really considered it. But that's actually quite a big part of it. But it's not. It's not the only part. Yeah, it's a big, big part for sure. All right. Thanks, guys. So the next one next little question, I've got written down. What are the biggest advantages of Midweight Games, so you might not have much to add to this one. But for an example, for me, I've put potentially no video. So you don't have to do a video to research it potentially you can rely on someone's tape. Like we played Nusfjord The other day, and I didn't feel like I had to watch a video and stuff like that. And then come

Becky: 39:27

Comes with time. I think that comes with time because now I think like probably be more prepared to just rock up and then be taught something, just go for it. But in previous lives in previous years, even for the most simplest of games, I would have absolutely 100% wanted to whether I would have gotten around to it all of those things. I would have definitely felt an advantage of watching a video to pre pre kind of get that the basic stuff in. And I think going from the question you just asked my favourite thing about them is the fact that like JP was sort of alluding to it prime's, you for another midweights you're Yeah, because there's so many sort of so much cross pollination. They're really good at kind of terraforming Mars, for example is my my go to talk for everything. But that game has informed me about so many other mechanics that then when you learn the next one, you've already got that bit down in your head. It isn't such an deep thing to learn and

Kerley: 40:28

Be interested, but it might give you more confidence. Try heavier gauge. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Here is probably one of those games, I've had classes heavy despite the fact we played it so many times it feels middleweight, maybe, but I would say is probably

JP: 40:39

on the heavier

Tambo: 40:42

Things you're causing, and you've got a place put certain places you assume everyone else is doing.

Becky: 40:46

That's why I'm crap at it, because I'm not doing

Kerley: 40:51

Interesting though, because actually, we would naturally, the more you really think about it, we wouldn't introduce someone new to the hobby to try, we would introduce them at the level of Lords of Waterdeep, you know, even I don't know why I thought of it, but that I say to type game that you might look better and less when all those type of games that are kind of towards the middle and lower end of that middle weight, just kind of like you know, and then after a couple of weeks, even a month, two months test here

JP: 41:21

can we get to Lisboa quickly.

Kerley: 41:24

I've just put down no video similar to that play and teach. So that's a big advantage. You can kind of play and teach as you go along. Yeah, encourages people to try more complex mechanisms and heavier games. So that's a lot of what we've already talked about and what the middle a game, but that is what it is, to me the big advantages of Midweight. Also, you could argue time, so just time as a two to three hours. But any other comments? I mean, I know it's not a massive question. No,

JP: 41:51

No, I don't think so. I think we've covered the core points. The time one was the one I was going to suggest just then, because if I was thinking going back to our other episode of Game days, like mid weights are the ones I would gravitate to the most to bring to the table because of the time Yeah, and I always think I want to get as many games in as possible. So midway, it's like, and I also want to feel like play the game. And that's not to diss lightweight games. But I want to again, going back to the reasons of I want my brain to feel active on I feel like I've achieved things or built one engine or whatever. So cramming, you know, four midweek Games in in, you know, eight to 10 hours is a good time.

Kerley: 42:29

Um, the fact that if someone hasn't played it, you can do the plenty you can you can theoretically do it. Whereas if it was Anachrony, yeah, you just wouldn't even try.

JP: 42:38

It's kind of like guys, have you played Anachrony before? Yeah, we won't bother. It's not worth it. Really? Isn't

Becky: 42:45

There normally fun as well. Maybe they're fun because we like them because of all the things we've just said. But the themes are usually quite fun.

Kerley: 42:52

Do you mean light hearted because fun is a definition of individual like I find some really fun when I'm talking about Twilight Imperium

JP: 43:01

Dinosaur fetishes again,

Kerley: 43:04

Don't know world you're talking about eatin vandals and stuff.

Becky: 43:07

Isn't it fun when you know when you design

Kerley: 43:11

Nemesis is not fun, but I find it fun. It is fun, but it's like it's talking about aliens invading a ship that is always about to blow up and be on fire. It's not

Becky: 43:20

Isn't it? Because it's so silly.

Kerley: 43:22

Okay

Becky: 43:25

Things like like dog park. Okay, and I'm going down the really lightweight,

Kerley: 43:30

Light hearted rather than

Becky: 43:33

Usually pretty graphics is what I'm probably talking about. Appealing, I think maybe because they make up quite a large market share. Yeah, probably the ones that they tried to push out most often. They want to make them appealing. And it works perfectly on me because I am the absolute sucker for them all.

JP: 43:51

Would you like a jigsaw? Yes, please, please.

Becky: 43:54

Do with a game. Like Like for example, I'm not interested in space, but I love Terraforming Mars because of the way it's made up. And it is. It's quite fun building new stuff in the map. It's quite fun making a little engine the pieces are quite nice.

JP: 44:09

Yeah, I think is subject today because I find it fun. And I put in air quotes because not everyone's gonna find this fun but I find it for my my brain is burning white hot work hard decisions. There's like that's that's fun. Because when I get through it and go oh, that was that was a workout that was and then you can figure your path through Yes, come on. feel clever.

Tambo: 44:32

Well, I think you got a great point because maybe think about the videoing. Yeah, every time I played Lisboa or whether it's you don't always have to watch a re video beforehand. It's always yeah, I've watched now it's how it's played again. And they're really heavy weights. So like it's really nice when you say you were going to play Lost Ruins or something and you just go round and play it. You've done it once you know whatever works and that's a really good point about middle weights. Yeah, and also I always play with weights with the family as well that's how we introduced it now. I won't actually introduce them with a light game now. I'll make it a bit more exciting to put a midweight game in Yeah. And then that's you can you tell everyone where they are with games then

Kerley: 45:05

Comes back to that accessible bit just getting people into the hobby as

Tambo: 45:08

it does. It really does

Kerley: 45:10

Fair enough. All right. So this is linked to what I was saying to JP earlier on and comment you made. So I'm gonna make you go first. Oh, no. Do you think that the BG The ratings are they relevant? And even if they're not, regardless of this answer, I want you to give me a rough BGG rating as to what you think defines a midway for you.

JP: 45:30

I mean, the obvious answer what defines a midway would be three wouldn't

Kerley: 45:36

Would it be? Out of five when surely 2.5 would be a little bit halfway, isn't it

JP: 45:40

See, I'm already crap at math. But, ya know,

Becky: 45:44

we went three and that was in the middle. And I'm, I know that three is not zero. Do you

Kerley: 45:48

record a below one as not being a possible score? Yeah, I think

JP: 45:52

maybe because how many? How many games on BGG? Get below one Noughts and Crosses? Yeah. Don't if it's the one.

Kerley: 46:01

Yeah, I mean, one must be the minimum. I've never looked. Yeah. Anyway

JP: 46:05

I think I think he may be because of that. So for me, I think around the three, you know, if it's, I suppose a 2.8 or 3.2. And up to maybe a 3.5.

Tambo: 46:17

Can I ask a really stupid question, what does it go up to? I don't really look at ratings.

JP: 46:22

5

Kerley: 46:22

the most

JP: 46:24

I've always thought I was talking about earlier. 4.5. Lisboa, there's more games over 4.5? No, it's either. That I'm sure the probably is one that exists. What is the heaviest game? That should be a question. So yeah, I kind of would see kind of sitting around that three to three and a half, maybe. But I think you'll start pushing it as you get over 3.5. Yeah. Now it starts to creep into some naughty territory of heaviness. I love that. But I know a lot of people use that tool. Ian in the group, he uses that tool a lot, he will see a game event being put up, first thing you'll do is jump to the BoardGameGeek. Check the complexity rating, if it's above a certain number, not sure what the number is, but he will have no, incidentally, he will just say no.

Kerley: 47:13

Because it's not accessible to him. Yeah, he's not thick. You know, he's,

JP: 47:16

He's a clever guy, but he doesn't want to he doesn't want to go for the experience. And he hates learning.

Becky: 47:22

So I think I've gotten a bit better with it. But that is my it's not worth

JP: 47:26

The effort, I think is what it is like the reward. Yeah, he's going through that process to get the reward of playing the game, and then maybe never playing it again. Yeah, it's not worth it. So yeah, Becky, what do you think?

Becky: 47:39

Yeah, I think around about three. I mean, when I look at the games that I enjoy playing, so we were saying Terraforming Mars is what 3.0 Gold?

Kerley: 47:48

That's question 3.7.

Becky: 47:50

Yeah, something like that. I don't know why I tried it. I'm trying to think of the game

Kerley: 47:54

Did bad enough at the quiz at Christmas. Guessing waves

Becky: 47:59

Well Terraforming Mars is a 3.26? Because I've just looked it up. Okay. I'm trying to think. Yeah, I don't know about that. I'm trying to think of the game that I still enjoy. That's the highest rating, complexity wise. And I think Spirit Island is just on that knife edge. And Spirit Island is what something like, is it for?

Kerley: 48:18

No, no, I again, I'd have to have a little look. So my lovely assistant, JP is helping me out on this one.

Becky: 48:27

What what do I think? I think because some games can be really simple. 4.06 Wow. So if it's, I think four then it's probably my enjoyable limit. Maybe if some of yeah, maybe if some of the games I've got a lot of very, very similar mechanics, or they might just involve one more level of thought processing. And I think that is what I don't like about Spirit Island. You have to be really thoughtful about the future. Yeah. And I just don't enjoy that

Kerley: 48:57

I think you wouldn't have given Spirit Island a chance to be honest. But your you'd love the theme. I did. Yeah, that's exactly it. I don't think you've really I think your limit is actually below four. I think you're comfortable limit but you pushed it because you really liked the Yeah, yeah. Defending off. You know, a lovely island. Yeah,

Becky: 49:14

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. That

JP: 49:17

Just looked up. Tic Tac Toe Noughts and Crosses. For us. Brett's Yeah. Complexity waiting a 1.28. No, it is not. So I don't think it goes below one. Yeah, because tic tac toe is 1.28, then what the hell is 0.5? So I think it is one five. Yeah, so therefore free being your sweet spot.

Becky: 49:37

Yeah. So I reckon I would Yeah, I would join in with JP with that. I think it probably could get a little bit lower if maybe there were more choices to make. Yeah. But I think yeah, four is my absolute cutoff. So I

Kerley: 49:49

So we do believe in the value of the BGG ratings as far

Becky: 49:52

I thik it's a good guide. Yeah, but But for example, I'm as surprised that Terraforming Mars, is where it is because I now think that game is I can't say super simple because that would imply that I'm good at it and win, and I don't, it really is, but the mechanics are. It's a very well designed game and the fact that it's obvious what's going on. The things are really well designed. It's like going around a shop with really good instructions. You know, they're

JP: 50:18

You know the rule set, that's why, you don't have to think about the rules now when you play you just play. Yeah. So even though it sits, I don't know what it is low threes, and this is what that expansions. But yeah, it's because you know, they're also Yeah, it's like anything, it's actually

Kerley: 50:34

Quite a tough teach with with the expansion.

Becky: 50:36

So for somebody who doesn't play board games at all, because there's a lot of different things in there,

JP: 50:40

I think I find Lisboa easy to play. That's because I know the ruleset. So it's, it's in there. And I don't have to kind of think about it. I'll do this and how does that work again, you know, I'm just playing it. So it's, it's just the barrier to get to that ability level of thing where

Becky: 50:56

Dog park is 2.17. So I'd be prepared to teach dog park to someone who didn't play games at all. In fact, we've taught that to my friends and her husband. And they really enjoyed it. And it was it was they completely got the hang of it. No problem whatsoever. And they are not board gamers, particularly I think, you know, he is a little bit so I think that's kind of is the lowest I would say is that is a meet you could even medium I don't think I don't think

Kerley: 51:25

I think it's I think for me, and it's a little bit cheating, but this what I've got written down 2.5 to 3.5. Okay, that's midweight for me. And I appreciate that's quite a wide variance.

Becky: 51:34

What do we think then is the lowest game that we play? What's the kind of easiest midweight?

Kerley: 51:39

I think Lords of Waterdeep. I think that is the lowest for me, but I mean, there is I will say there is a some degree of subjectiveness to the BGG ratings themselves, or I'm sure they use some sort of formula. But there are some that I think oh, I'm not sure I agree with that. So Lords of Waterdeep for me is probably bang on 2.5 For me, no, I appreciate it might be 2.8 2.9, whatever. 2.45 2.45. So that for me is the actual that is a midweight game for me. What's your thoughts?

Tambo: 52:12

Oh, to be honest, guys, I don't really use ratings. I don't look at game I think I just impulse buy to be honest. Yeah, I don't I don't really look too much about the ratings

JP: 52:23

I like it with but you don't need to. And unless you make a good point, like we can get obsessed about BGG and get obsessed about that. I mean, it's a tool, the end of the day, isn't it?

Kerley: 52:33

I don't use it obsessively. I just use it as we quite often for like hot games and stuff like that. So I know what's around and what people are talking. It's a great resource. Yeah, it's a great resource. And like Ian, I do find it helpful to get a bit of an idea as to what I'm getting myself into, like, do I watch a video? You know, that kind of thing?

JP: 52:51

I love Tambos approach, which is I don't care.

Tambo: 52:55

I don't I don't

JP: 52:56

Does it look cool

Tambo: 52:57

But I like heavy weights and I like mid weight so I don't care which what they are. Yeah, that's the point.

JP: 53:02

That's interesting, either.

Tambo: 53:03

I don't I don't look at the

Kerley: 53:04

Does it change how you approach the evening. If there's no change, whether you look at the video or not, for example, as we were talking about,

Tambo: 53:11

Are there any thought about So you mentioned it now so yeah, I mean, so a video for all Midweights now probably just read the instructions, I suppose. So I'm just

Kerley: 53:23

I don't think I'd like to be without it. I'm not I'm not arguing with you entirely, obviously. Yeah, but I'm just wondering, because I find it's so useful for that reason. I was just wondering what you would do on it. Prep.

JP: 53:36

I mean, it sounds like it looks cool. Yeah. Yeah, but I

Kerley: 53:39

I don't mean about signing up. I don't even mean on the day right? Whether you watch a video whether you just turn up do you just

JP: 53:45

I don't know if I put a game night out or do you just

Tambo: 53:48

You guys are very good. You'll mention how heavy is well while you're there?

JP: 53:52

That's the I'll tell you this is a heavy one you should watch video and here it is.

Tambo: 53:56

So that's that's that's why I don't Yeah, and I do watch video because you say to watch but how do

JP: 54:00

You know then is a good question. So when you're buying a game like you say you can get all that game looks cool that's looking really interesting to me. How do you know if it's a heavy or complex Do you not I don't you just get it just get it and go. Oh,

Tambo: 54:13

Yeah, I read what it's about. Yeah, that's my latest About for me above seven means good game below seven mean? buy was Beasts. So that's my latest buy. Yeah, that was an impulse buy. So I just let them fall out though. I want to hit movement game. I want it looks cool. But yeah, and I thought okay, let's go can I but I did look the ratings on it. Oh 7.2 I didn't ask but I don't know that's good or bad. There's something, so it's gonna be all right. I think you guys are logged into that by the way how Average

JP: 54:40

We could do a whole episode about how relevant the rating of a game is because all the users

Becky: 54:46

Had you already bought the game when you saw that it was seven or

Tambo: 54:48

When I looked at the rating of it. The complexity right now didn't give a crap

Becky: 54:52

If they'd have given a crap rating would you still have bought it or would you have done more research to then decide if you're gonna do is a good question.

JP: 54:58

So if it's out of five

Tambo: 55:00

Would probably still bought it. Because I wanted to I wanted a specific game which like a hidden movement game or what? Yeah.

Kerley: 55:06

Alright guys, so I want to finish his main segment by just saying very simply, I want your top two favourite middle weight games. And if you've got a quick reason as to why so I'm going to do it in the opposite way around I've been doing it Tambo

Tambo: 55:22

Think about this now top to top two.

JP: 55:24

Don't pick mine. Shall I come back to you? That's okay. Wait, because we'll get all that nonsense out and then when he's ready, he's good. Okay. I would go think

Tambo: 55:35

Lost ruins is one of my favourite midweight ones. Okay, interesting. Play that line. I've got it in this family favourites

Kerley: 55:41

Lost Ruins of Arnak. I love that game.

Tambo: 55:43

Yeah, it's good. Yes, definitely a midweight game.

Kerley: 55:47

I don't know. We'll put pressure now and I

Tambo: 55:51

Would Outer Rim be a midweight game.

Kerley: 55:54

Yeah, cool. Yeah, I'd love that.

Becky: 55:56

So what is it instantly in that decision? What were you weighing up in your mind to decide?

Kerley: 56:01

Just the complexity level in my mind, but I've only played it a couple of times. So I don't really feel like I can give a very good weighting. And it has got expansion. So do you include the expansion to the expansion? You know, so and I haven't played the expansion? So maybe I'm not the one to ask

JP: 56:14

2.4 versus 2.52. Yeah, that's

Kerley: 56:18

Probably expansion. Yeah. Yeah. So that for me, they felt like a midweight game. So is that your second? Yeah,

Tambo: 56:24

Definitely. Because when I play the most sense,

Kerley: 56:26

Burkle?

Becky: 56:27

Everyone's already guessed at home. They're gonna say she's gonna say, oh, sorry. Terraforming Mars with the expansions and I don't really care what number that makes it up to in my mind.

Tambo: 56:41

I'd have chosen that, but in my mind it's a heavyweight game.

Kerley: 56:43

See, the base skims middleweight. I think heavyweight does take it. Sorry, the expansions take up to about three, three. I would say again, guys. So yeah, so if Becky thinks us a midweight?

Becky: 56:56

Well, it's because it's a game that you all play that I like, yeah. In my mind, that makes it midweight Yeah. And you

JP: 57:04

You know what you should do? do an episode on Terrafroming... oh no we've already done that

Becky: 57:10

And, of course, Loads of water deep with the expansion 100% with the expansion, because I think that just is it will be forever. One of my favourite games ever.

JP: 57:21

Yeah, I just play it without the expansion. So

Becky: 57:24

I just love it for it's it's comforting, even though it can be very sort of confrontational when we play it. And it will always hold a soft spot in my heart. I love the pieces we've got for it. It's so you can crack it out on a Sunday afternoon because everyone knows it. And it's just fun to play. Yeah, I really liked that one day I will win it but I have not seen that day. And if I can't choose Terraforming Mars

JP: 57:56

You've chosen it is important that we don't like pull you down. Do you think it is and that's the point a point as your point Yeah, so you think is midweight that's cool? You don't struggle with it you don't ya know where you assess Midweight Games as

Becky: 58:12

Do I struggle? No.

JP: 58:15

It's your comfort zone. Yeah, and you find Terraforming Mars with all the expansions that you play comfort. Yeah. So that's fine. That's relevant in my opinion, right?

Kerley: 58:24

So I'm gonna get in mind now just before JP steals my

last one please Dune: 58:28

Imperium

JP: 58:31

Oh no, that's not my midweight

Kerley: 58:33

Yeah, I was gonna say probably without the expansions because the expansions when you play them all together it's getting dangerously up above three I would say Yeah. But yeah, you know whatever you're happy with. I've always played with all expansions but I want it to be a midweight game. So it's a midweight game. So yeah, Dune Imperium all expansions. Absolutely love it. That is my, I would say favourite, but also honourable mention then if we'll share Lords of Waterdeep. That was my second choice.

Becky: 59:02

I just really don't like Dune Imperium. I just find it I'm just really surprised because it's so similar. I can't I can't work out why I don't like it because it's so similar to Lost Ruins of Arnak, isn't it in it's gameplay? I'm not saying it's the same game because it's better to see I just don't agree. I just don't agree. But yeah, I wish I did. Because you all love playing. Yeah, and I don't like

Tambo: 59:27

I can't. I should love it.

Becky: 59:29

I didn't hate it. I just

Kerley: 59:32

I was gonna say you didn't hate it last time. You were frustrated.

JP: 59:35

Yeah, he hates it. Yeah, it's stupid elephants.

Kerley: 59:43

But there we go. What about you?

JP: 59:44

Me the two that just sprang to my mind. Coimbra. Coimbra. Just it's still there. I still own it. I haven't got rid of it yet. I love playing it. It doesn't hit the table often enough but I don't mind it because like if even play Once a year I still enjoy it. Yeah. And I don't know there's something about that game the dice drafting just just need decision space in there and it's just fun. It's different every time we keep thinking the the purple tracks overpowered but then we find out it's not you know, it's that it's great. So that's the Number One Number Two's Lorenzo Il Magnifico is one I just enjoy.

Kerley: 1:00:25

You know, I was about to say to you honourable mention to that game that I can never remember the title of JP helped me out.

JP: 1:00:30

And is that? Yeah. So that one, I just enjoy the card play those little cards that you put and build your little engine as you go. Great. That's what I did. No, you didn't? Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. It's just one of them things, isn't it? It's just an interesting game. And, again, different every time. Weird that you have dice rolls that determine your power level of your work. It's just Yeah. It's just cool.

Kerley: 1:01:01

This is a a common theme amongst those two games, actually. And the fit of the theme itself is not I'm not saying it's similar, but it feels similar.

JP: 1:01:08

Yeah. So when I say when you say Midweight Games, especially midweight Euro, I kind of gravitate towards historical setting set in a town or city in Europe. That's beige. I could just go there. So it's like your Lorenzo's, it's your 12 hours, your little culture? Yeah, I thought it just I don't know, they just sit there. And they just tend to be around those kind of theme games. And yeah, like to to icon that slightly on the heavier side, but it's still midway.

Kerley: 1:01:41

Right? That's that section, I think we've pretty much covered everything we want to cover. So moving on, there it Moving on to our next session of the pod is going to be or would is you rather so guys, here's the question for you Come on. Would you rather learn and play a game via a learning video? And then you're allowed to Google any issues throughout the game? Or you've just got the rulebook? So you got up, you know, you can read it beforehand, and you can refer to it in game. See, I know my answer, so I'm gonna start us off. Dirty. It is a penchat of mine to be dirty, because I've already formulated an answer. And this is kind of fresh for you guys. So for me, I'd rather video and Google because I really, really struggle with just the rule books, I find it difficult to find the motivation to look at it beforehand, if it's on me. And then I find it sometimes with the way they're designed, difficult to refer to a good rule book is a different question. And we could go into rule books to a large degree later, but for me video, and then Google is the best way forward. So God JP, on the other

JP: 1:03:02

I think you love reading books just for the fun of them. way, Yeah, I mean, I find reading rule books a fun experience. Because I like to live dangerously.

Becky: 1:03:16

Wild because I'm

JP: 1:03:17

a while back. Now what do I genuinely love the experience of getting a new game thumbing through the rulebook? sitting on the sofa? chillin out reading it and going a Oh, yeah. Oh, that's cool. And just learning it but you right, you make a solid point, which is why it's not a clear cut choice. Because the shit rulebook Yeah, is a shit rulebook that makes that experience awful. And if you've got no other reference, then you're flying blind, aren't you? Really? Yeah, definitely. And then, on the flip side, what I'm kind of toying with if I just happen to look on videos, one there might not be a video of the game. These days, it's quite rare. Okay, then there might not be a good video of the game. Well, yeah. And and then I hate I think we've worked out that you're just harder working than I hate having to Google things about a game when I'm midway through a game and go farming through BoardGameGeek forums. I just hate doing it. Just like takes you out of the game. You're trying to find an answer to a rules query me, I hate doing it. So for me, I'd rather deal with the upfront investment, thumb through it. Maybe if it's not quite clear, then play a few kind of dummy rounds by myself to get the flow of the game. And then I am. Or more dedicated. Maybe. I'm way too lazy for that. See, I Just Yeah, I just find it. Like we've talked about it before. But for me learning games is not a hellish experience. So for me, I enjoy it. So the whole thing from unboxing popping and reading the rulebook, organising all of that, love it.

Tambo: 1:04:51

Popping is great. Yeah. On the backside of the supply back east, why haven't they

JP: 1:04:59

Moved the tokens in then you've got, I think by player colour. Oh, that's it.

Kerley: 1:05:03

Thankfully, me and Becky lived together. So she does the popping good partnership. Well, I'll just sit there and she does the work.

JP: 1:05:12

I say partnership. Slavery.

Kerley: 1:05:17

Tambo, what do you think?

Tambo: 1:05:18

Okay, so this is interesting. I've I'll refer you to every game I've played on boards I've generally played with you guys. So you've actually, You've already played it, so I don't really need to look. I already know roughly how it plays. There's two games that I bought you never had, which was Dog park first. And I've just bought Beast and I've read the rule books. I don't look at videos. So I've got a I look at real books and I read it.

Kerley: 1:05:41

So actually, you're not sure which way you would go but you've actually just done it. Yeah, do you ever all book

Tambo: 1:05:46

Yeah, the two I've had to actually learn to play I've read the rulebook I've never even think about going to Google or video interesting and I enjoyed it. But then I haven't read like a rule book for like, say weather machine or anything like that is midweight games are talking here. I mean, it feels heavyweight game i I can't choose that there's gonna be one or the other, isn't it?

Kerley: 1:06:04

All right. Well, I'll tell you what, then teachers for you. Yeah, heavyweight game that no one else knows.

JP: 1:06:08

You've got Voidfall. It's just landed. Right? You've got it, it's boxed up, it's all done

Kerley: 1:06:14

Which Which one do you go for

Tambo: 1:06:16

Probably a vieo first. Do you want to look at a more button go? Yeah, watch a video.

JP: 1:06:24

Here's my answer to this question, right. Do you watch Paul Grogan? One Hour Video? Or do you read the rulebook? The compendium the glossary? The rules reference, right? Because there are four books in that game. And to be fair, they're really well written. And weirdly, it works in the way that you access the rules and you know where to go. But when my god if you pick that up for the first time, you know what, Jesus I mean, just say start here because I've big red letters start here guys, and it tells you what to do. But still our video

Becky: 1:07:02

Yeah, you might have changed my answer. No, I still have it.

Kerley: 1:07:07

That's interesting, though, for midweight for you. It's rulebook, Heavyweight is video and Yes, perfectly valid answer complex. Well,

Becky: 1:07:15

my initial response was 100% video. But then when you just mentioned about the new game that he got that because I'm in the same camp with Tambo. To be honest, I have not bought a game that no one else had until I bought Astra or until I was buying Astra. So I was relying on everyone else and to be honest, but neither but probably the video because it's quicker. I think, however, when I bought a game that no one else had, and it was going to be down on me. I read that rulebook back that, you know, left, right, centre. I was but that partially was because that was the only part of Astra I could consume at the time was the rule book. So I read it out. And it's a very light rule book in fairness. But equally when I bought Unfathomable I did the same thing. I downloaded the rulebook I read all of it

JP: 1:08:02

It is quite it's an interesting point. Because like when you're excited about a game and I know you Astra you're like all over it. You're like, I just need this in my life right now. Yes, bring it on.

Becky: 1:08:12

I just wanted to join the Mindclash clan, because you were all so into it. And I wasn't and I was thinking, Oh, maybe I can be part of it

JP: 1:08:23

Yeah.

Becky: 1:08:24

Yeah, I don't I don't want to be part of the club anymore. I'm sitting on the side.

JP: 1:08:29

I reckon Septima is gonna be your bag

Kerley: 1:08:33

I reackon I could work her up to Trickarion one one day? Okay. Yeah.

JP: 1:08:36

Trickarion is

Kerley: 1:08:37

You would like the theme. Yeah. And that might make you want to learn the game enough.

Becky: 1:08:42

It does look very pretty on the table.

Tambo: 1:08:45

For me, I haven't played it before.

Becky: 1:08:46

Okay. All right. Let's carry on. Maybe we'll do it. But

Kerley: 1:08:54

Because it does come with a disclaimer that it will be the heaviest game you've ever played. Yeah. All right. All right. I'll do it. And you will struggle with it. Yes. All right.

Becky: 1:09:02

All right. Well, that's the question you made. I think I think I prefer watching a video. But what I've think I've actually found myself doing is reading the rulebook. And then okay, yeah, but that's because I usually rely on you guys to teach me the game. Yeah. So I think for me watching a video because I need to kind of have a bigger overview. Yeah. So I think watching a video of a shortened video of maybe not someone's actual playthrough. But, but this happens, and this happens. And this happens. And this happens gives me enough of a this is what the point of the game is where I think in some rule books, you don't get that deal with some rule books. It's just very, very, this is how you do this thing. This is how you do this thing. It doesn't really always give you a an overview of a round or a game. So I'm gonna say video, because that's what I've used mostly.

Kerley: 1:10:01

Yeah, it's a tough one.

Tambo: 1:10:05

Good question.

Kerley: 1:10:07

Thanks. So there's that section. We've pretty much mulled over that one as much as we can. So moving on. Onto our penultimate turn. So we're going to chat about things coming up doesn't have to be board game related. What are you excited about? But it could be board game related. I know mine is. So if you've well JP, you're gonna be easy. JP, what are you excited about this coming up?

JP: 1:10:35

You mean you got to think I'm gonna say holiday? Well, that is what I already use that. So I am obviously really excited about getting guys like seriously, it's gonna be amazing. But know what's been burning through my brain. On the excitement levels is game related. is actually I was on the in the car with Stephen going towards Paul Grogan house playing Voidfall and he was talking about his experiments and playing Imperium classics. And I've heard about this game. It's a deck building Civ game. And it's designed by funnily enough, Nigel buckle and David Turczi sold.

Becky: 1:11:18

Yeah, I can see Kerley is almost online now buying it.

JP: 1:11:20

I kind of know about this game. I've heard of it. It's been out for a few years. I've never really been interested in it. But now I've played Voidfall. And the designer did it. I was like, maybe give it a lot. And then Steven was telling me all about it, how it works and what you know, what's that? Bloody interesting? Because it's because it's a deck builder. But it adds a bit of complexity in there makes

Becky: 1:11:42

He's going on the internet now. He's gonna buy it, I can see him look. So yeah,

JP: 1:11:46

If you buy these, I don't have to. That's great. And it's you plays different kinds of nations. So you've got like the Romans, the Greeks, and

Becky: 1:11:55

Have they literally designed the game for him?

JP: 1:11:58

The whole purpose is you start off like in a barbarian state, and you got to clean your deck out, and then you'll end up kind of evolving or maturing into an empire. And again, it's all card play. You play this you activate that you exhaust this and that and it's just, it looks pretty cool. artwork looks really kind of nice, cartoony, really well done. And I watched a little play through he thought, you know? Yeah, if I wasn't going to holiday, I probably would have already bought it. Because I'm away for the next two weeks. You've got a window worry. Yeah,

Becky: 1:12:30

it'll arrive in the group

Kerley: 1:12:32

I'm looking at it, It looks interesting. I'm not gonna lie.

JP: 1:12:35

So that's what's been floating around in my little washing machine of a brain of games at the moment, but yeah, it does look cool. So yeah, I'm up for it. I shall do some research. If you get it before I come home then cool. If not, if not, I'll probably get it.

Kerley: 1:12:52

That's fair enough. That's me. Alright. Thanks. JP, Tambo.

Tambo: 1:12:56

In a week's time we're playing Twilight Inscription aren't we?

Kerley: 1:12:59

Twilight Inscription

JP: 1:13:00

The roll and write TI game, I want to play this.

Kerley: 1:13:03

Yeah, you're away now sunning it

Tambo: 1:13:08

Playing Twilight? Yeah, look forward to that. Yeah.

Kerley: 1:13:11

Yeah, me too. Me too. I'll be watching a video on it. So I haven't played it yet either.

JP: 1:13:18

Like just the sheets,

Tambo: 1:13:21

Is it just as long?

JP: 1:13:21

No, no, I't one of the longest roll and write games you'll ever play. Yeah. And it's got the really cool orange pens. Yes. Yeah. Independence. Really like easy on orange on like dark maps that you've said it really pops.

Kerley: 1:13:37

Thanks. Yeah. Me to take now. I'm looking forward to that as well.

Tambo: 1:13:41

I wouldn't steal yours did I?

Kerley: 1:13:43

No no, I'd forgotten all about it. Yeah.

Tambo: 1:13:45

I didn't actually realise I signed up for it. So I literally looked about a couple days ago.

JP: 1:13:50

Obviously, Dan didn't get on with it. Then.

Kerley: 1:13:53

He found it okay. But he wasn't that worried about it, to be honest with you. So I took the advantage of the situation and Thanks, Dan. I'll be offering that thank you very much. So yeah, so was that next Sunday? Yeah, we Yeah. Exactly a week today. So yeah, I'll be looking forward to that too. But just trying to see who's actually signed up for it. We got five people for it,

Tambo: 1:14:16

Which probably four then, right, which is Facebook.

Kerley: 1:14:20

No, there's actually 5. So yeah, I'll be looking forward to that, enjoying it. Sweet. All right. Thanks, T. So with mine, I'm going to say Ascendancy. So I know I briefly talked about Ascendancy last episode. However, I've got a Ascendancy in a person playthrough with Paul Grogan from gaming rules your first time my first time going to pool so yeah, so looking forward to playing ascendancy again. I've played it on Tabletop Simulator with a designer I think Matthew Meeple

JP: 1:14:51

Right now. Great name, so

Kerley: 1:14:55

I actually want to know whether it's, it can be coincidence, surely. All right. We need to ask him. Yeah, we need to find out it might be like, you know, BoardGameGeek and ask him Yeah, maybe. I know he's listed on BoardGameGeek as Matthew Meeple because I did check. Copyright. Anyway, so Matthew Meeple played TTS with him Paul and someone else Mike. And then I played in person with Adrian from our pod. because we wanted to get a bit of a practice in learn the rules, Adrian's never played it before. So to get a bit familiar with the game, loved it even more, I have to say, I used now obviously a little bit I played at once on TTS. I was like trying out a few other little things like going down the technology tree, which was something that I didn't really do. And that was really interesting. gave me some interesting powers made me better overall, you know, but I felt more powerful, more able to do the other things in the game as well. So that has fed the fire a little bit. And then yeah, Wednesday go into pools to actually play with him. And Adrian, I'm really looking forward to.

JP: 1:15:56

You'll have a good time. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Nice to kind of go on, go in his studio and play the game. It's. Yeah, I'll see what you think when you come back.

Kerley: 1:16:06

Yeah, definitely. And it's felt like a bit of an evolution of me getting into it as well. Yeah. So yeah, definitely. Looking forward to that one.

JP: 1:16:14

Yeah, and to say big thanks to Paul is a big supporter of a podcast and yeah, it gives us a good shout out on his videos when we kind of appear so we always appreciate that.

Kerley: 1:16:23

Yeah. And even the odd invite down to things like this just really helped with us. And you know, segments like this really

JP: 1:16:28

Kind of help each other, don't we? Because we help him with with certain games and, and I've taught him games in the past. And he's just got, like, always, there's so many games out there. You can't learn them or cover them all. So yeah, can help them out where we can.

Kerley: 1:16:43

So Becky, how about yourself?

Becky: 1:16:44

Well, this just made me realise that I'm looking forward to putting some events in the calendar games I want to play. Yes, we haven't played it. Well do it.

Kerley: 1:16:52

Yeah. It's taken me a couple of years of encouragement.

Becky: 1:16:56

So I really want to play that Orleans game. Okay. Still sat on the still sat on the damn shelf.

Kerley: 1:17:04

I think Do you think it's because I'm not that worried about it? So do you think it's made you buy it? Might have bought it, but it would have been more Becky in mind. Because it's not my sort of game.

Becky: 1:17:15

I didn't know that. I know nothing about it other than the hype that you kind of said this way here. Fits perfectly to the show. Should we should have played it beforehand. Yeah.

Kerley: 1:17:23

I've always got other priorities on games like that. That's my problem. So you're gonna put it in?

Becky: 1:17:27

I'm gonna put it in and I'm gonna put in another game of trois. But I'm obviously gonna wait for you to come back from holiday JP. Yeah, we havn't got ladies. It's difficult. It's expensive. It's expensive. I think. I think you can get it but

JP: 1:17:42

I think a lot of people say you don't really need it. I like it how it is it's pretty good art is still cutthroat and a bit stabby. So it's just it's just good. I'm gonna take your dice are you get? Yeah, and it's great.

Becky: 1:17:55

Yeah. I'm looking forward to putting Games in. Because I've just realised I've got nothing in one day.

Tambo: 1:18:00

Definitely want to play Orleans. Yeah, so when we were gonna do it with you one point we put it? Yeah, we actually had a week's video.

Kerley: 1:18:08

I was thinking of to Trois be honest. I'm sure.

Becky: 1:18:12

No, we've had Orleans in the calendar

Tambo: 1:18:15

Had to change for some reason.

Becky: 1:18:18

Yeah, so I'm gonna put that in the calendar. I'm really looking forward to Dog Park new tricks coming in. I know that game isn't loved by everybody. I think it's just a cute little game. Really?

JP: 1:18:30

I mean, the game is what it is, isn't it? It's on the lighter end. Yeah. And I say I don't hate it. I just don't find it enough for me.

Becky: 1:18:40

It's I think it fits in for my sort of feelings of I've been really tired at work. We just got back. We haven't got anything necessarily planned in the evening. Oh, let's just crack out a game that isn't isn't a task. It's just a bit of fun. And there's cute dog pictures.

JP: 1:18:55

Different breeds of dogs. Yeah, and that's Yeah, yeah. Nothing wrong with it. It's Yeah, mine's just a personal taste thing. Yeah.

Becky: 1:19:05

And yeah, doing some more jigsaws as well actually because it was Kerley's board game weekend. Pretty much when everyone had gone home while he was playing the last game.

Kerley: 1:19:14

Me and Tambo were playing Kapow. Kapow. I really liked that. It's good fun.

Becky: 1:19:21

So they were playing kapow. So I thought to what the other table set up because of where we were playing other games. I'm gonna get the old puzzle kind of board thing that I've got that I inherited from one of my parents, and do a 500 piece jigsaw. I cracked it out in one night and I really liked it. Good fun. Yes.

JP: 1:19:39

It reminds me of an experience that we had Joshua got 1000 on one. Is that fat? Maybe it's 1000 Yeah, but he got 100 piece Jigsaw it's called an impossible Jigsaw by basically every piece has a slight loads and loads of emojis and oh my god are when we got it out and it just became this thing. It was on our table for about three weeks. And like every every show was like sat at the table doing it for an hour Josh was there for an hour I would get involved. And it's just super chill. Yeah, forgot puzzles. How they can make you feel

Becky: 1:20:12

It reminded me of being a child.

JP: 1:20:14

Yeah it really does. Yeah, and you know, and I was gone like back

Becky: 1:20:18

Well, i did it in probably like 3 hours, it's only 500 piece, so it's not, you know, crazy. Yeah, I think I've got the right kind of brain for jigsaw puzzles in fairness and this one was, it was highly detailed. With very, very, it was like a spice kind of shop, say in Morocco or something. So it was very brightly coloured, like the hue and saturation have been rammed right up. It was a very pop. Yeah, so you had all these kind of jars and we've kind of spices in big pile. So you could look at a piece for long enough then look at that. And you could get to exactly where on that. And my brain is quite good at that. Which is why I should be better at board games, but I'm not

JP: 1:20:56

Just the opposite of the impossible possible, which is our pick up pace. And it's got a smile and emoji of which there's about 500 And I don't know where it goes

Becky: 1:21:04

I don't think I'd like that one

JP: 1:21:07

We had to do it, it had become a thing. Yes. Had to finish it.

Becky: 1:21:10

Yeah. Well, you're all together when you put the final piece in. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I've got four Disneyworld ones, actually, that I bought when me and Kerley went on our honeymoon last year or whenever it was. So I need to do that. Cool. So I'm gonna put more jigsaw puzzles in my life. Wow, what a wild party animal I am

JP: 1:21:28

Go for 3d Eiffel Tower.

Kerley: 1:21:29

No thanks. So with that, we'll move on to the final pile of pod, which is the final turn which is just an exit from us. So our final times wrapping up victory points are about to be scored. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you've enjoyed the show, please subscribe and review our podcast. And also we would like you to ask if you do enjoy the podcast, please give it to someone else that you know who you think you might enjoy it. Give the link share the link or ask them to give us a quick listen. Get in contact with us on the show. We'd like to know what your favourite middleweight games are. And you know we'd also like to know what you thought about the video the video and a Google are the Would You Rather Yeah. And then would you rather video and Google versus of rulebooks? Tell us what you think about?

JP: 1:22:16

Which Midweight games haven't we played that we should? Yeah, there's a bunch of them that we've not even remotely touch.

Kerley: 1:22:22

There's just so many games in general there are some that are probably awesome that just go under the radar

JP: 1:22:27

Hidden gems, what are the gems that we should play?

Kerley: 1:22:30

So if you'd like to get in contact with us, then you can find the links below but also email Facebook Instagram, Tik Tok BoardGameGeek we've got now Yeah, and Threads. Yeah, we'll be back again in in two weeks with another episode. So until then, you